Fire and Lightning 2: DC Comics vs Pokemon Conquest Game over DC Comics Wins!

[Gargaglione]

If dabuz and/or hando flip town I'm going to throw the biggest "I told you so" gif I can find out.

If you genuinely believe that they're not scum and you actually care about playing at all, you would make an effort to at least argue something.

 

[Dabuz]

If dabuz and/or hando flip town I'm going to throw the biggest "I told you so" gif I can find out.

If you genuinely believe that they're not scum and you actually care about playing at all, you would make an effort to at least argue something.

Hollownote go go go.

 

[Top Deck BLS]

If dabuz and/or hando flip town I'm going to throw the biggest "I told you so" gif I can find out.

Just saying, that is the biggest ****ing scum flag. "I told you so. Please give me town credit. I didn't want to lynch the townies."

 

[Fandangox]

Hollownote remember when I told you to not do stupid?

You did stupid.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Dude it's like your head's completely...

Hollow.

 

[Handorin]

I'll bus my partner after that post. It was pretty bad.He's hollow weight to me now. You guys got us.

 

[#HBC | Scary]

I'll bus my partner after that post. It was pretty bad.He's hollow weight to me now. You guys got us.

My body is ready for post like this.

 

[Raziek]

Why Handorin?

Why do you hate dabuz and yet want to vote alongside him?

Do you not think dabuz is being a tad opportunistic with his Handorin stuff? Like, a few people said his vote was bad and dabuz goes balls deep on that and blows it way out of proportion.

You make valid points, but look at this from the perspective of TownDabuz.

He gets this huge wagon on him, and his MiR push isn't seeing substantial support. If you're VT and want to save your hide, where do you turn otherwise?

Like yeah, his posts are opportunistic, but Handorin is ALSO gross and it's really his only viable option to prevent himself being lynched.

I'd personally be totally fine offing either, given that Hando is not even being inactive at this point, but is instead obstinately refusing to provide content. He's directly stonewalled requests for explanations on his reads/votes multiple times at this point. Dabuz is at least providing us with content to deal with, even if a lot of it is scattered questions.

Ugh. I think Dabuz is scummy, but Handorin is useless AND scummy.

 

[Raziek]

Has Raziek really not used his vote this whole game?

That weirds me out.

This is pretty common for me. I typically don't vote unless I latch onto something specific, and I don't move my vote around without a good reason.

That doesn't weirds me out as much as how he showed up to comment on the Handorin thing and then hasn't said anything again. Its very consistent with how he has been playing this game in that he shows up, says a throwaway comment and then leaves. The one exception is when he seemed to have caught up and made those posts on potassium, dabuz and answered the questions I made

I apologize for this as well. This has been a pretty long Day 1 and I've been in a semi-constant state of catch-up (though not quite Rajam-tier), so I don't usually feel like tossing out a vote when I don't have the big picture sorted in my head.

I'll try to get a detailed reads post together.

 

[Raziek]

Ehhhhhhhhhh... I'll need to be convinced of Raz scum. I liked his earlier play and the rest of his play seems to read as just being behind and behind. I'd rather give him (and Hando and Hollow and BLS and anyone else that may be inactive for that matter -.-) the time during the Night to catch up before really looking at anything from em. I think I see Hando+Dabuz moreso than Raz+Dabuz personally.

Wow bro
You're DEFINITELY scumteam with Raz.
and hando is scumteam with dabuz
and Potassium is scumteam with BLS
even Red Ryu's in a scumteam with... me

These two posts together don't sit right with me.

Gorf is making a legitimate justification of why he doesn't think I'm scum, but then Garg comes in with this throwaway post taking this sort of thinking to the total extreme. I get that he's probably joking, but this sort of post discredits Gorf's, whether intentionally or otherwise. Turning it into comedy at this point almost says "I think your post is a joke."

Either that or he's poking fun at everyone throwing around guesses at scumteams with no flips to work off of.

 

[Make it Rain!]

ill be gone tonight and sunday
will be around saturday

 

[Raziek]

Light blue is a Town lean, Green is strong Town, Yellow is Null, Orange is scumlean.

1. HollowNote - Not going to commit in either direction on this slot at this point. His content is weak, but he's making an effort at least? I'd like to give this slot the benefit of the doubt as a new player, but there definitely needs to be some more depth here.
2. Handorin - Active refusal to provide content and explain himself does this slot no favors. This is typical of Handorin's play, so I'm doing to defer to Rule #1: Handorin is scum unless proven otherwise.
3. Gargaglione - I'm pretty okay with this slot. There have been a couple of things that made me raise eyebrows, but I think it might just be Garg jokingly ****ing around with Gorf, since they seem to know each other pretty well. I actually hadn't considered this when I wrote my 1050, so I feel better about that in retrospect. Early tell on IR is still to his credit, and unless I notice something grevious, I'm cool with Garg for right now.
4. Make it Rain! (Xonar/WashedLaundry) - I'm leaning Town here at this point, but the pushes have been.... awkward, I think is the word I want? Slot's been mis-understood quite a bit. HollowNote is an easy slot to pressure. Not terribly convinced by their BLS pressure, given that I felt Soup's later reaction and replacement from the game felt Townie to me. BLS's post-replacement play has been fine in my eyes, and I'll be able to sift through Ryker's play as we go along anyway.
5. Gorf - I actually have no idea how I feel about Gorf, and that concerns me. Other than the early push on Soup, not a lot stands out in my mind. Going to re-read this slot and come back to this after.
8. dabuz - I can't really add much to what's been said already. The play has been opportunistic, and did change as it was pressured, as people pointed out, but I don't want to ignore my feeling that TownDabuz might just be in a ****ty spot to deal with. Unless there's sufficient support for Handorin, I'm going to try to ignore my gut here, as most of the players I'm Town-reading are also scum-reading this slot.
9. soup BLS - See comments on MiR, kinda addressed both in that part.
10. Fandangox (Slight Town lean) - Still getting a feel on this slot's style. Asks all the right questions. Verdict pending further examination, as I can't crutch my meta reads on this one.
11. Gova - Pretty confident Gova is Town. He's active, interested, and his actions seem Town-motivated to me. He's speaking up about **** he doesn't like and asking pertinent questions to people who are driving the wagons, which shows his intent to look for the motivation of the player behind the wagon itself.
12. ScaryLB59 - No strong feelings on this slot, but I think I may have missed the window of content that's come from it so far. Will go back and re-read the "beer musings" that supposedly came up, I remember seeing Fanny comment on that.
13. Potassium - I think I was relatively clear on my thoughts on Potato as I was catching up. If I need to elaborate further, let me know.

I'm going to try to do a bit more detailed reading on Gorf/Fan before I throw a vote down, since I think Dabuz is already L-2. I'm okay with that lynch, but I'd like to look over things first.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Yea @ Raz' post saying Gargagliones post doesn't sit right he's stated before that he doesn't think we should be getting so conclusive with the lack of info we have.

 

[Raziek]

Yea @ Raz' post saying Gargagliones post doesn't sit right he's stated before that he doesn't think we should be getting so conclusive with the lack of info we have.

You're speaking for him on this?

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

No he's speaking for him, he mentioned it before. I'm like the middleman, skim moar.

 

[Raziek]

Forgiveme for skimming over your pointless banter with Garg and all that Daykill nonsense.

 

[Gargaglione]

These two posts together don't sit right with me.

Gorf is making a legitimate justification of why he doesn't think I'm scum, but then Garg comes in with this throwaway post taking this sort of thinking to the total extreme. I get that he's probably joking, but this sort of post discredits Gorf's, whether intentionally or otherwise. Turning it into comedy at this point almost says "I think your post is a joke."

Either that or he's poking fun at everyone throwing around guesses at scumteams with no flips to work off of.

Of course it's a joke.
I'm expressing that I think the fact that everyone's already claiming scumteams is really silly. We don't got the info for that

 

[Fandangox]

You make valid points, but look at this from the perspective of TownDabuz.

He gets this huge wagon on him, and his MiR push isn't seeing substantial support. If you're VT and want to save your hide, where do you turn otherwise?

Like yeah, his posts are opportunistic, but Handorin is ALSO gross and it's really his only viable option to prevent himself being lynched.

Isn't this why most of us have a problem with Dabuz though? As potassium summed it up, his play changes depending on what is being called on at the moment. Could be Dabuz genuinely trying to improve his play this game, but it just seems like self-preservation to me.

I'd personally be totally fine offing either, given that Hando is not even being inactive at this point, but is instead obstinately refusing to provide content. He's directly stonewalled requests for explanations on his reads/votes multiple times at this point. Dabuz is at least providing us with content to deal with, even if a lot of it is scattered questions.

Ugh. I think Dabuz is scummy, but Handorin is useless AND scummy.

I agree, but I am going to refer again to what garg said (gonna try to find the post) I thinking lynching and active scummy player is more beneficial than Lynching a less active one.

 

[Fandangox]

Light blue is a Town lean, Green is strong Town, Yellow is Null, Orange is scumlean.
1. HollowNote - Not going to commit in either direction on this slot at this point. His content is weak, but he's making an effort at least? I'd like to give this slot the benefit of the doubt as a new player, but there definitely needs to be some more depth here.
2. Handorin - Active refusal to provide content and explain himself does this slot no favors. This is typical of Handorin's play, so I'm doing to defer to Rule #1: Handorin is scum unless proven otherwise.
3. Gargaglione - I'm pretty okay with this slot. There have been a couple of things that made me raise eyebrows, but I think it might just be Garg jokingly ****ing around with Gorf, since they seem to know each other pretty well. I actually hadn't considered this when I wrote my 1050, so I feel better about that in retrospect. Early tell on IR is still to his credit, and unless I notice something grevious, I'm cool with Garg for right now.
4. Make it Rain! (Xonar/WashedLaundry) - I'm leaning Town here at this point, but the pushes have been.... awkward, I think is the word I want? Slot's been mis-understood quite a bit. HollowNote is an easy slot to pressure. Not terribly convinced by their BLS pressure, given that I felt Soup's later reaction and replacement from the game felt Townie to me. BLS's post-replacement play has been fine in my eyes, and I'll be able to sift through Ryker's play as we go along anyway.
5. Gorf - I actually have no idea how I feel about Gorf, and that concerns me. Other than the early push on Soup, not a lot stands out in my mind. Going to re-read this slot and come back to this after.
8. dabuz - I can't really add much to what's been said already. The play has been opportunistic, and did change as it was pressured, as people pointed out, but I don't want to ignore my feeling that TownDabuz might just be in a ****ty spot to deal with. Unless there's sufficient support for Handorin, I'm going to try to ignore my gut here, as most of the players I'm Town-reading are also scum-reading this slot.
9. soup BLS - See comments on MiR, kinda addressed both in that part.
10. Fandangox (Slight Town lean) - Still getting a feel on this slot's style. Asks all the right questions. Verdict pending further examination, as I can't crutch my meta reads on this one.
11. Gova - Pretty confident Gova is Town. He's active, interested, and his actions seem Town-motivated to me. He's speaking up about **** he doesn't like and asking pertinent questions to people who are driving the wagons, which shows his intent to look for the motivation of the player behind the wagon itself.
12. ScaryLB59 - No strong feelings on this slot, but I think I may have missed the window of content that's come from it so far. Will go back and re-read the "beer musings" that supposedly came up, I remember seeing Fanny comment on that.
13. Potassium - I think I was relatively clear on my thoughts on Potato as I was catching up. If I need to elaborate further, let me know.

I'm going to try to do a bit more detailed reading on Gorf/Fan before I throw a vote down, since I think Dabuz is already L-2. I'm okay with that lynch, but I'd like to look over things first.

I really like this post, an actual read list with elaboration as opposed to just the leans, its all I wanted ;-;

 

[Dabuz]

Isn't this why most of us have a problem with Dabuz though? As potassium summed it up, his play changes depending on what is being called on at the moment. Could be Dabuz genuinely trying to improve his play this game, but it just seems like self-preservation to me.

Well think of it. As town, if i'm playing badly, no one will listen to my thoughts or scum reads and I end up being dead weight to town. Dead weight also equates to ending up a mislynch for town after being generally useless. Even if it looks bad, it's worth trying to "fix" my play if it means people will not only listen to my reads and opinions, but if it actually helps finding scum. Like shoot, I've played maybe 10 games of mafia, I always feel inadequate in my play and always try to improve on it, there's nothing worse than feeling like what I say and do isn't working in a game with so much time investment.

 

[Fandangox]

Well think of it. As town, if i'm playing badly, no one will listen to my thoughts or scum reads and I end up being dead weight to town. Dead weight also equates to ending up a mislynch for town after being generally useless. Even if it looks bad, it's worth trying to "fix" my play if it means people will not only listen to my reads and opinions, but if it actually helps finding scum. Like shoot, I've played maybe 10 games of mafia, I always feel inadequate in my play and always try to improve on it, there's nothing worse than feeling like what I say and do isn't working in a game with so much time investment.

Well that's why I said it could still be you just trying to improve your play, but I think the best way to do this is to just put your thoughts out there without worrying much what other people will think of it.

 

[Dabuz]

Well that's why I said it could still be you just trying to improve your play, but I think the best way to do this is to just put your thoughts out there without worrying much what other people will think of it.

Mafia is a game where what other people think is important though. If no one buys what you're saying, it gets you no where.

 

[Dabuz]

Also, when I -did- put my thoughts out, people would comment that it was just me putting out observations, IDK how to react to that.

 

[Raziek]

Isn't this why most of us have a problem with Dabuz though? As potassium summed it up, his play changes depending on what is being called on at the moment. Could be Dabuz genuinely trying to improve his play this game, but it just seems like self-preservation to me.

Consider the alternative, though.

If he just sat there and didn't change, wouldn't that look AS bad if not worse?

 

[Fandangox]

Consider the alternative, though.

If he just sat there and didn't change, wouldn't that look AS bad if not worse?

Hard to say considering the spotlight on that wagon was on Handorin and Hollownote who hoped close to each other without much explanation. I think nobody would have looked any worse at Dabuz for maintaining his vote there, at least I would have not.

When asked why he unvoted he said he felt better about MiR's play earlier, if true why didn't he unvote then? Its the same logic we are applying to Handorin: If he thought MiR was scum, why didn't he voted back then?

 

[Dabuz]

Hard to say considering the spotlight on that wagon was on Handorin and Hollownote who hoped close to each other without much explanation. I think nobody would have looked any worse at Dabuz for maintaining his vote there, at least I would have not.

When asked why he unvoted he said he felt better about MiR's play earlier, if true why didn't he unvote then? Its the same logic we are applying to Handorin: If he thought MiR was scum, why didn't he voted back then?

Didn't I explain that already? There's a huge difference because my vote on MiR was doing something, pressuring him, forcing him to continue playing how he was so he would be easier to read.

It was also a bait to see if more people hopped on the wagon, and how.

 

[Fandangox]

Didn't I explain that already? There's a huge difference because my vote on MiR was doing something, pressuring him, forcing him to continue playing how he was so he would be easier to read.

It was also a bait to see if more people hopped on the wagon, and how.

Why chose MiR to pressure? Its not like he was exactly inactive, he was, but wasting a lot of time with BLS bickering back and forth. I can understand not being able to get a read on him because of that, but If you wanted to read him better you could have asked him for read lists or so. I also feel voting just to pressure a slot that late on the phase just seems like an unnecessary gambit to me.

 

[Raziek]

When asked why he unvoted he said he felt better about MiR's play earlier, if true why didn't he unvote then? Its the same logic we are applying to Handorin: If he thought MiR was scum, why didn't he voted back then?

This I'll agree is still unpleasant, I can't really buy his explanation on that front.

 

[Fandangox]

Also if you did it for pressure why unvote then? Its not like he was at L-1.

 

[Dabuz]

Why chose MiR to pressure? Its not like he was exactly inactive, he was, but wasting a lot of time with BLS bickering back and forth. I can understand not being able to get a read on him because of that, but If you wanted to read him better you could have asked him for read lists or so. I also feel voting just to pressure a slot that late on the phase just seems like an unnecessary gambit to me.

Let's go thrgouh the phases of that MiR vote:

Initially I did not like his approach to Raziek, I voted him then, was content with that. Then he started doing none Raziek or Soup stuff, I kind of digged it, but I didn't want to take my vote off without seeing more., I didn't think my vote would be as useful elsewhere. Your right, I could have asked him for some stuff, but I didn't know what to ask him, I was fine with just continuing to observe his play. Calling it a gambit is wrong though, a gambit would be doing something without plan or intention and hoping it doesn't misfire 100%. Then Hando and Hollow brought him to L-2, if Luigi's mansion taught me one thing about SWF players, they will do stupid L-2 quicklynches.

 

[Raziek]

You seem just as unreasonably paranoid about that as Soup was.

Why are you so paranoid about QL's when half of the perpetrators of that lynch either aren't in this game or weren't active at the time?

 

[Fandangox]

Let's go thrgouh the phases of that MiR vote:

Initially I did not like his approach to Raziek, I voted him then, was content with that. Then he started doing none Raziek or Soup stuff, I kind of digged it, but I didn't want to take my vote off without seeing more., I didn't think my vote would be as useful elsewhere. Your right, I could have asked him for some stuff, but I didn't know what to ask him, I was fine with just continuing to observe his play. Calling it a gambit is wrong though, a gambit would be doing something without plan or intention and hoping it doesn't misfire 100%. Then Hando and Hollow brought him to L-2, if Luigi's mansion taught me one thing about SWF players, they will do stupid L-2 quicklynches.

Well okay probably gambit was the wrong thing to say. Also if you didn't know what to ask him you could just have asked him for an elaborated town read then. Also I don't know, I think you could have probably inferred that a quick-lynch was not going to happen considering that after Hando and Hollownote hoped, everyone who voiced dislike at MiR was already on the wagon.

 

[Dabuz]

You seem just as unreasonably paranoid about that as Soup was.

Why are you so paranoid about QL's when half of the perpetrators of that lynch either aren't in this game or weren't active at the time?

I have know way to know what other players will do, it's too hard to say with confidence that the players not voting MiR at the time wouldn't quicklynch him.

 

[Dabuz]

Well okay probably gambit was the wrong thing to say. Also if you didn't know what to ask him you could just have asked him for an elaborated town read then. Also I don't know, I think you could have probably inferred that a quick-lynch was not going to happen considering that after Hando and Hollownote hoped, everyone who voiced dislike at MiR was already on the wagon.

*Shrugs* Possibly I could asked about an elaborated townread, but IDK what else to say besides I didn't.

 

[Fandangox]

I have know way to know what other players will do, it's too hard to say with confidence that the players not voting MiR at the time wouldn't quicklynch him.

Lets look at the list of people not voting MiR when he was at L-2

Votecount:
1. HollowNote - Make it Rain! (Xonar/WashedLaundry),
2. Handorin - dabuz,
3. Gargaglione -
4. Make it Rain! (Xonar/WashedLaundry) - Top Deck BLS, Gova, HollowNote, Handorin
5. Gorf -
6. Raziek
7. Potassium -
8. dabuz - Potassium, Gorf, Gargaglione, ScaryLB59, Fandangox,
9. Top deck BLS -
10. Fandangox -
11. Gova
12. ScaryLB59 - Handorin

Not voting: Raziek,

Deadline set for February 2nd 11:59 PM CST

These were not voting MiR at the time:

Gargaglione
Gorf
Potassium
Raziek
ScaryLB59
You
Me

Garg: He voted you after that back and forth between you two, he seems really set on that vote, and considering how he has been playing I don't think its reasonable to think he would just have changed his stance and quick lynch MiR, I don't remember very well what his stance on MiR ws, but I don't recall hearing anything major from him on that.

Gorf: Gorf has been very active through the entire game, trying to read people and scumhunt, do you really think Gorf would have just quicklynched considering his play in the entire phase so far?

Potassium: I could maaaaaybe see why you'd think he would quick lynch considering that weird stance on Gorf he had, but after that he has been playing very well, not jumping the gun on anyone. He even stated that "he is just not seeing it" when walking about MiR as scum.

Raziek: He was in constant catch mode, I could proably see him quick lynching MiR considering how MiR latched onto him beginning of the game, but after catching up and answering those questions I made him he stated he feltbetter about MiR's slot.

Scary: Honestly hard to say if would have done so. Can't really tell since his presence seems a bit minimal compared to the other more active players.

You: No need to explain.

Me: Pretty much my biggest complain on MiR was his weird latching on Raz at the beginning of the game, which kept being brought up by other players, and that he was bickering a lot with BLS.

Don't know man, just seems like a really unreasonable fear to have. Doesn't seem there could have been anyone else that would have jumped on his wagon going by their stances and play.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Well think of it. As town, if i'm playing badly, no one will listen to my thoughts or scum reads and I end up being dead weight to town. Dead weight also equates to ending up a mislynch for town after being generally useless. Even if it looks bad, it's worth trying to "fix" my play if it means people will not only listen to my reads and opinions, but if it actually helps finding scum. Like shoot, I've played maybe 10 games of mafia, I always feel inadequate in my play and always try to improve on it, there's nothing worse than feeling like what I say and do isn't working in a game with so much time investment.

Mafia is a game where what other people think is important though. If no one buys what you're saying, it gets you no where.

Also, when I -did- put my thoughts out, people would comment that it was just me putting out observations, IDK how to react to that.

All this AtE hurts my eyes.

Honestly I don't see much else coming out of this Dayphase. Most people seem content with the dabuz lynch, we have ~36 hours till deadline, and unless there's someone's input we're waiting on at this point this Day's kinda going stale. Anybody who wants anything else before we close this case?

 

[Fandangox]

Mafia is a game where what other people think is important though. If no one buys what you're saying, it gets you no where.

I didn't mean it that way, I meant more in terms of how they see your play if they think you think are good or not, not about making a convincing argument.

 

[Fandangox]

Anybody who wants anything else before we close this case?

When will you finally notice Garg is the one for you?

 

[Fandangox]

But for real though, I still want to hear what @ Top Deck BLS @ Make it Rain! and @Gova think of this.

Specially BLS since he said he'd be on today at the latest.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Garg ain't the one for me shiz I'm in love with mah Mary Jane