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Finally! Rate My Luigi!

elheber

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 23, 2008
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1,074
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Los Angeles, California
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elheber
I finally got myself a video capture dongle. No I can upload videos I've been saving. Since I'm just learning to upload (you know, finding the best codec and whatnot), these videos aren't "best of elheber"; they're videos I thought were funny or interesting (usually because of the recoveries). Anyway, it's still me in these videos... watch and comment (here) please. Also, some of these are old (you can tell because I have trouble shorthopping on those), so I've forgotten the names of the other players. -_-i

WiiGi vs. DK
WiiGi vs. Wolf
WiiGi vs. Zelda
WiiGi vs. Bowser
WiiGi vs. Metaknight
WiiGi vs. Ganondorf
WiiGi vs. Marth
WiiGi vs. Marth (another)
WiiGi (Luigi) vs. Ekzwizit (Fox) WiFi 04-May-09 (BOUNUS: Suicides1 and Suicides2... enjoy!)
 

KoRoBeNiKi

Smash Hero
Writing Team
Joined
Apr 26, 2007
Messages
5,959
Location
Brooklyn, NY
Slippi.gg
KORO#668
Were any of these matches in high lag?


Battlefield is one of the best stages to use luigi's up air
also, more down air and f-air
also, RAR back air much more, it helps alot vs DK and Wolf
 

elheber

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 23, 2008
Messages
1,074
Location
Los Angeles, California
NNID
elheber
Sorry, nope. When I played with the guys at school, it was rarely a 1v1 situation and even less often a less than 3 min situation. Now that I have the ability to record longer matches, I pretty much only play online.
 

ALiAsVee

Smash Ace
Joined
Apr 13, 2008
Messages
739
I'm talking about the DK match, because I have the most experience with DK out of all the other characters you've thought.

First off, you're passed the phase of putting together strings of attacks to rack up damage, that's good. Don't get drunk off of this fact and run in headfirst against a DK. Although your opponent under utilized a lot of DK's moves, you know full well that his f-tilt is his most effective tool against you on the ground.

You can't fireball set up DK most of the time because of the F-tilt; use fireball too far and you can't capitalize, use fireball too close and you get a backhand to the face. Aerial Approaches/Ground approaches don't fair much better because you can get easily shield grabbed. The best way to approach a DK from experience however, is through the air.

Weigh the risk/reward of an aerial approach. On one side, DK's quickest and most effective move is the RAR SH Bair. He has impressive grab range, and of course powerful tilts. Luigi has quick ending aerials however. Let's look at a scenario:

Luigi SH Fairs a standing DK. The Fair is his quickest aerial, and has a good hitbox for frontal assaults (in terms of landing a hit). If you just go towards him with an Fair, he'll just shield grab you. Assuming you know this fact, you'll maybe try to space the Fair further away from him, just out of grab range. He still has uptilted F-Tilts and Bairs. So you space further back still, leaving him only with RAR Bairs. The DK will catch on to these SH Fairs and try to punish your repetitiveness with his most viable aerial. Here you can punish.

This goes without saying then, that you have to force the DK into the air if you hope to get inside. A standing DK (neutral position) who can do any move in his arsenal is dangerous and hard to approach. Catch him in the air? Well in the case of the RAR Bair, you can read this move and FF or AD to the ground and then Powershield or crouch. DK is slow on his aerials, and you exploit his weakness by shield grabbing/ jab grabbing.

Like around :48 when you came up for a Dair and he went for a Bair and missed it. If you quickly airdodge towards the ground he's a sitting duck. Not that you did this, but don't try to land an aerial behind DK so you can dodge the shield grab because it rarely works due to his size.

You don't really have to know this to beat the DK you were up against, but it's important to know when you play good DKs down the line. The biggest problem with peeps is getting comfortable with the strings.

Other stuff...make sure you learn to tech the Cargo > Stage Spike, because you can footstool them for a gimp.

If they do Down B near you, you can SHFF to a buffered UpB; it will always work if you time it right.

Don't get greedy with the aerial strings, or you'll eat a foot in the face. The worst places to attack DK outside of a string is from below and behind. From below, you can usually bait a dair however so it's not all bad.

I didn't see you do it or your opponent, but when you ledge hop to fireball or someother attack, a DK can absorb the hit the punish with a Big punch, fyi. The same goes for the UpB, but it isn't as big a punish and is mostly used for a safe means to return to the stage.

People say never roll behind peeps, which isn't always true. But DK you do in fact never want to roll behind unless you time his Fsmash perfecly, DK can punish with a lot of things.

Use luigi's Slipperiness! If DK is above you and you are on the ground and he tries to attack you, you can shield and slide > shieldgrab. If you don't know what I mean by this I can show you a vid.

He didn't shoguard...if he did I'd give you tips on dealing with that, unless you don't know what shoguarding ish.

Use tornado to ruffle DK's fur, but be careful as he can shield grab that sometimes.

Overall decent, just some finetuning for future matches against DK and you'll have that matchup down.

Maybe I'll rate another video later :p.

Watch the platforms with DK, as you're never safe when he's below you.
 

elheber

Smash Lord
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elheber
Wow! That was for 1 video! Thank you ALiAs, for the in depth critique. I did get very drunk off of my first string of attacks. Since he didn't seem too experienced I thought he was gonna be super easy, so I turned up my aggressiveness and got punished. My lead was eliminated very quickly. I understand what you mean by the Fireball too, which is sad, because I really love my Fireballs. You're right... each time I Fireballed -> Hyphen Smash I got punished. I guess you're saying to FFAD buffer a lot more against (more experienced) DKs and to keep DK in the air because he's a best in his neutral grounded position. Sounds good!

Watch the other videos whenever you have time, ALiAs; I always admire your posts.
 

_Liquid_

Smash Cadet
Joined
Apr 28, 2009
Messages
64
Overall I thought you were pretty good just a couple suggestions.

Try not to approach with >B I wasn't sure if that was just by accident or mindgames but try to use that sparingly.

I just recommend more bairs as it's a pretty good spacing/edgeguard. Plus it's lagless when used right.

But yeah overall very nice!
 

ALiAsVee

Smash Ace
Joined
Apr 13, 2008
Messages
739
@ Elheber's previous post: That's the tl;dr version yes xD.

I had some time so I decided to post something about your fight vs. Wolf. My match up experience is fairly limited however.

From what I did see, you were playing against a very aggressive wolf who pleaded to be shield grabbed with the approaching bairs, nairs, and reflectors. Don't deprive the poor soul, shield grab him to hell. The good part is, he hardly used lasers, which was what I was prepared for as I started to watch the match. If he had used lasers, he would've been a ***** to approach, as well as fearsome in the offstage gimp, but he didn't.

Watch your tornado usage, I can't quite explain the do's and don'ts of the DownB, but one good example is to never use it for recovery unless it's safe/necessary. The over use of the DownB was one of the many reasons you were easily punished in the air. When fighting someone like Wolf, you really can't leave such gaps in your defense.

His wolf was fairly predictable, and you should absorb a lot from the stock when fighting someone new. For one thing, he spammed F-smash but caught you lookin' several times. Another instance like I said earlier...he Reflects any chance he gets, making immediate counterattacks bad and shield grabs good :]. WIth opportunities like that, you don't even need the jab grab.

What you do what to do with spacies in general is to grab > stuff. Especially with this wolf, who is unusually in that he didn't spam lasers too much. I think online is a bit easier to combo, so use this to your advantage and set up series of short strings whenever you can. Don't get carried away, because with the opportunities your opponent provides in shieldgrabbing, there is no need to take risks for damage.

Another note is that I don't think he grabbed you...or he might've but it wasn't a lot. If your opponent likes to strike you with long distance moves (like F-Smash) or aerials, a regular shield is more appropriate than an sidestep. If you can powershield the moves to a grab, great, but idk if that's that easy online.

You have some minor faults in terms of handling, such as the accidental dash attacks (twice in a row). You're aware of these faults I'm sure. I have the same problems, but we're both working on it ;].

Relish in the linear recovery of Wolf, which you used to your advantage to take off his second stock (I think it was second). Luigi has leniency in his recovery in that he can start his recovery almost anywhere and still make it back on stage. On the other hand, once you start the recovery, you'll most likely get gimped if you lose momentum, but that's besides the point. What the point IS, is that you should always see opportunities to turn your opponent's mistakes into punishes when he's off stage, as it is a high risk/high reward factor for him. At moderate percents, he'll most likely only be able to gimp you with the sweet-spotted UpB, and if you bait and AD that...well you'll punish him >:].

Again, the more campy Wolf will shoot lasers to slow your progress/gimp you, which is the no risk/high reward route, as you can't really do anything against that except angle your recoveries to duck/go over his range. Be ware of the baiting however, especially if you recover low.

Another general bit is the lack of fireball usage :[. I'm shooting fireballs out whenever it's safe. It's a great way to drive your opponent in a certain direction, combo, and rack up quick damage. In application, if you were fighting Wolf on a stage where he could scar the lip, and he was on the ledge, you could bait fireballs from a distance close to where he could land the SweetSpotted UpB > powershield/Shield > stuff. If you just use them and see how your opponent deals with them, you'll find uses.
 

elheber

Smash Lord
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elheber
ALiAs, I really appreciate all your feedback per video; but I also don't want you to get burned out. I'd be satisfied with you simply watching them all and then commenting on only the things that stood out in your memory. Don't get me wrong, I joyfully read and re-read every line of your post and then watch the videos again to put it all together, but I'm also afraid you're gonna get tired of this... it is a lot of work after all. I'd be perfectly fine if you spent the time you use to write the WoT (sort of like the WoP, but with Text) to sit back and watch the videos instead, and then just write one of your bonafide posts on the things you noticed I did/didn't do in general. Though, if you don't mind writing that much, then there's no problem.

Anyway, Shield Grabbing! YES! That's something I just realized I don't do thanks to your feedback. I Jab Grab a lot, but I rarely if ever Shield Grab! It's certainly not just a problem with this match, I don't Shield Grab at all! That'll be my new practice goal... up until now I've been trying to get used to increase my fSmashes when the enemy is at 90+ (something I forget), but Shield Grabbing is a bigger weakness of mine. **** yeah!

As for Cyclones, I know you think I use it too much (in this match w/ Wolf), but I've my experience with it is that it's best most useful moves ever with a high reward:risk ratio. I know I lost 2 stocks and gained some damage from recovering with the Cyclone in this match, but this is a very rare occurance. All the other videos show the gimping power of the Rising Cyclone. Plus, if I get hit while doing the Rising Cyclone I regain the ability to do another before landing, which makes it even less risky to use near the opponent. This guy was just lucky he only lost 1 stock to my Rising Cyclone.

Speaking of his and my recoveries, I'm not sure what you meant. Did you mean I should chase him off-stage more? If so, I suppose that's another thing I'm trying to improve. Playing against chic who did it to me constantly, I learned the high value of Fireballing toward anyone grabbing the ledge (dear goodness it's so satisfying), but I should really get used to gimping and spiking them off-stage more often or when they're at higher percentages. I'm not sure how effective Fireballs would have been on such an aggressive and Reflector-comfy Wolf. This Wolf was just so different from all the others. I really should have Shielded more since (as you said) he never Grabbed and I could've Shield Grabbed.

You're right about my accidental inputs. About 3 times a match I'll accidently Dash Attack instead of Hyphen Smashing. I'll sometimes also accidently do fSmashes (non-tilted) instead of SH fAir/bAir, or dSmashes instead of SH dAirs, but those aren't noticable since they aren't very punishable and they still serve a purpose... they almost look like I did them purposely. I'm not sure how to fix these handling problems, though.

Hey ALiAs... you are a god among men. I take it all to heart, man. Plus, you opened my eyes to my Shield Grab deficiency. **** yeah, I'm gonna spam it 'til it becomes part of my muscle memory.
 

zhao_guang

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 18, 2008
Messages
1,118
Location
Nova Scotia, Canada
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zhaoguang1
ALiAs, I really appreciate all your feedback per video; but I also don't want you to get burned out. I'd be satisfied with you simply watching them all and then commenting on only the things that stood out in your memory. Don't get me wrong, I joyfully read and re-read every line of your post and then watch the videos again to put it all together, but I'm also afraid you're gonna get tired of this... it is a lot of work after all. I'd be perfectly fine if you spent the time you use to write the WoT (sort of like the WoP, but with Text) to sit back and watch the videos instead, and then just write one of your bonafide posts on the things you noticed I did/didn't do in general. Though, if you don't mind writing that much, then there's no problem.

Anyway, Shield Grabbing! YES! That's something I just realized I don't do thanks to your feedback. I Jab Grab a lot, but I rarely if ever Shield Grab! It's certainly not just a problem with this match, I don't Shield Grab at all! That'll be my new practice goal... up until now I've been trying to get used to increase my fSmashes when the enemy is at 90+ (something I forget), but Shield Grabbing is a bigger weakness of mine. **** yeah!

As for Cyclones, I know you think I use it too much (in this match w/ Wolf), but I've my experience with it is that it's best most useful moves ever with a high reward:risk ratio. I know I lost 2 stocks and gained some damage from recovering with the Cyclone in this match, but this is a very rare occurance. All the other videos show the gimping power of the Rising Cyclone. Plus, if I get hit while doing the Rising Cyclone I regain the ability to do another before landing, which makes it even less risky to use near the opponent. This guy was just lucky he only lost 1 stock to my Rising Cyclone.

Speaking of his and my recoveries, I'm not sure what you meant. Did you mean I should chase him off-stage more? If so, I suppose that's another thing I'm trying to improve. Playing against chic who did it to me constantly, I learned the high value of Fireballing toward anyone grabbing the ledge (dear goodness it's so satisfying), but I should really get used to gimping and spiking them off-stage more often or when they're at higher percentages. I'm not sure how effective Fireballs would have been on such an aggressive and Reflector-comfy Wolf. This Wolf was just so different from all the others. I really should have Shielded more since (as you said) he never Grabbed and I could've Shield Grabbed.

You're right about my accidental inputs. About 3 times a match I'll accidently Dash Attack instead of Hyphen Smashing. I'll sometimes also accidently do fSmashes (non-tilted) instead of SH fAir/bAir, or dSmashes instead of SH dAirs, but those aren't noticable since they aren't very punishable and they still serve a purpose... they almost look like I did them purposely. I'm not sure how to fix these handling problems, though.

Hey ALiAs... you are a god among men. I take it all to heart, man. Plus, you opened my eyes to my Shield Grab deficiency. **** yeah, I'm gonna spam it 'til it becomes part of my muscle memory.

http://allisbrawl.com/group.aspx?id=5288
 

ALiAsVee

Smash Ace
Joined
Apr 13, 2008
Messages
739
ALiAs, I really appreciate all your feedback per video; but I also don't want you to get burned out. I'd be satisfied with you simply watching them all and then commenting on only the things that stood out in your memory. Don't get me wrong, I joyfully read and re-read every line of your post and then watch the videos again to put it all together, but I'm also afraid you're gonna get tired of this... it is a lot of work after all. I'd be perfectly fine if you spent the time you use to write the WoT (sort of like the WoP, but with Text) to sit back and watch the videos instead, and then just write one of your bonafide posts on the things you noticed I did/didn't do in general. Though, if you don't mind writing that much, then there's no problem.

Anyway, Shield Grabbing! YES! That's something I just realized I don't do thanks to your feedback. I Jab Grab a lot, but I rarely if ever Shield Grab! It's certainly not just a problem with this match, I don't Shield Grab at all! That'll be my new practice goal... up until now I've been trying to get used to increase my fSmashes when the enemy is at 90+ (something I forget), but Shield Grabbing is a bigger weakness of mine. **** yeah!

As for Cyclones, I know you think I use it too much (in this match w/ Wolf), but I've my experience with it is that it's best most useful moves ever with a high reward:risk ratio. I know I lost 2 stocks and gained some damage from recovering with the Cyclone in this match, but this is a very rare occurance. All the other videos show the gimping power of the Rising Cyclone. Plus, if I get hit while doing the Rising Cyclone I regain the ability to do another before landing, which makes it even less risky to use near the opponent. This guy was just lucky he only lost 1 stock to my Rising Cyclone.

Speaking of his and my recoveries, I'm not sure what you meant. Did you mean I should chase him off-stage more? If so, I suppose that's another thing I'm trying to improve. Playing against chic who did it to me constantly, I learned the high value of Fireballing toward anyone grabbing the ledge (dear goodness it's so satisfying), but I should really get used to gimping and spiking them off-stage more often or when they're at higher percentages. I'm not sure how effective Fireballs would have been on such an aggressive and Reflector-comfy Wolf. This Wolf was just so different from all the others. I really should have Shielded more since (as you said) he never Grabbed and I could've Shield Grabbed.

You're right about my accidental inputs. About 3 times a match I'll accidently Dash Attack instead of Hyphen Smashing. I'll sometimes also accidently do fSmashes (non-tilted) instead of SH fAir/bAir, or dSmashes instead of SH dAirs, but those aren't noticable since they aren't very punishable and they still serve a purpose... they almost look like I did them purposely. I'm not sure how to fix these handling problems, though.

Hey ALiAs... you are a god among men. I take it all to heart, man. Plus, you opened my eyes to my Shield Grab deficiency. **** yeah, I'm gonna spam it 'til it becomes part of my muscle memory.

Oh, this doesn't bother me. I don't do things that bother me xD. I'll watch the rest of the videos and give a big wrap up later today then. FIreballs, being projectiles, don't have much downfall to them. Even if the opponent is Wolf, whom I agree isn't very weak to fireballs, using them whenever you can insures that you get at least some hits.

Handling problems in general get fixed with experience, but remember Brawl's buffering system. Sometimes, if you buffer a command too soon, game ends up ignoring that command. I have these problems as well, it's just being human xD.

I'll be sure to watch the rest of the vids and see how you better use the cyclone, since the Wolf Video was a bad example.

Once you get shieldgrabbing down, you'll be powershielding > shieldgrabbing a lot. It's important to learn to powershield AND regular shield at the right times with Luigi, because his low traction makes his OoS game and his shield grab game trickier, if not just plain out harder than the rest of the cast. Since he benefits greatly from shield grabs however, it works out.
 

elheber

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 23, 2008
Messages
1,074
Location
Los Angeles, California
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elheber
Dang you zhao! *rigorous fist shakeage* If I ever move to Canada and live somewhere relatively near Nova Scotia, like Montreal or Toronto (I really do wanna live there), I'll put you in your place! Your place, I say!

If ALiAs is the new hippiedude, who will be the new ALiAs? Who will show us how to softmod our Wiis to allow extended replays? Who will categorize and maintain a table of all Luigi board contents? Who will teach us the awesomeness of buffering? ...I nominate kigbariom. Hey kig, get on that ASAP.

With all that said, I got the "Tags in Replays" code and now I got myself a good recording:
WiiGi (Luigi) vs. Ekzwizit (Fox) WiFi 04-May-09 (BOUNUS: Suicides1 and Suicides2... enjoy!)
 

zhao_guang

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 18, 2008
Messages
1,118
Location
Nova Scotia, Canada
NNID
zhaoguang1
If we ever play IRL, 20$ MM is awaiting you on my throne of Nova Scotia ;)

Nova Scotia is getting better fast. I'll be repping 902 this summer, and a couple of people here have really sharpened up their games.
 

kigbariom

Smash Lord
Joined
Sep 27, 2008
Messages
1,210
Location
Boston, MA
I will be the new ALiAs, but I have big shoes to fill.
Oh wait, I can't buffer that well, I can't categorize that well.

There's only one ALiAsVee.
 

hippiedude92

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 23, 2008
Messages
5,981
Location
Wishing Apex 2012 happened again.
I watched like 30seconds of the first match, the DK was SOO TERRIBLE! you can clearly see it was input lag as well. So I'd rather not critique sucha horrid oppenent.

Im skimming through the videos or so ugh.. your opponents don't know how to use their character at all tbh lol.

Critique on Bowser match

0:07 poor way to start the match. tho he got scared the booser could have just ran and ps the fireball and punish from there. try not to start off with a grounded fireball. SH fireball give you more aerial mobility

:10 nice way to start off the match by juggling him.

:12 he airdodged towards you. You could have reset the situation by Dthrowing him

:24 nice you got him to 110% in 24 seconds not bad.

:23-24 you could have FFBair to give him less options the moment he jumped.

but u still got him anyways

:30 lol tornado stage spike much? XD \

:31 nice edgehug.

:35 fast reflexes needed. He was goign to fair you, you could have just ran under him or just Ps him. But then again its wifi -.-

:41 very pooor move of you to DI towards him to his firebreath just to firejump punch him. Not only it dealt very little damage, but he still managed to do more damage than what you did to him. You should have sweetspot the edge, then FF upb to stall for inv frames. Your lucky he didn't fully punish you for your landing lag.

:47-48 You had time to edgehug him. Why so scared? you ran away lol.

:49 instead of upair, nair plz

:57 come on now. You let him DI away from you and landed a Fsmash on you. You jabbbed, but you still has time to PS the fsmash. Lucky you lived

1:00 extremely poor move of urs. Why did you put yourself at risk for a crappy DJnado huh? You got punish for it by his Bair. you should have FF DJ > upair him. Upair shield pokes the crap outta him

1:07 lol not bad, i was gonna say sweetspot the edge but u landed on the platform so thats goodl ol

1:12 stop letting him fsmash u. you lost ur first stock. Reflexs for ps plz.

Dont feel like critiquing second stock.

1:56 was that accidental? dont green missle to him lol.

1:59 boozer had his shield up for a second or two. You had enough time (imo) to DI away from his grab range or a fully spaced Nair to shield poke him. but u got grabbed.

2:02 you got lucky i thought u got stuck under the stage lol. try not to always tornado recovery.

2:04 why did u roll away? you should have ledgedrop to dair him, he would be stuck underthe stage and that's game over for him.

2:09 FFNair instead, you got shieldgrabbed for not FFing and not spacing

2:14 why did you Dair to Fair? Dair to nair would make him in the air.

2:26 nice buffered ftilt me likey.

2:31 ARGH!!! YOU HAD HIM THERE! You managed to scare him. you did a jab2, he was up on his shijeld for like 3seconds, u could have grabbed him, or just Bair him since he rolled behind you.

2:38 again, another bad nair led to sheild grab

2:41 argh. another punished nair. you got upb'd oos. -.-

2:45 WTF WAS THAT ****?? i hope that was wifi bull****ting u because a green missle thats random leds you to Booser ****** u. also i think u could have survived that but u DI'd up too much i believe not sure tho.

Overall critique : Your luigi can combo pretty good. Your buffering was iight. But too many bad things

- You need to choose better options. Your options led to you being punished and a \boozer fsmashign u. choosing the right option for the right situation is what you need.

- Try to fastfall more. Luigi is a floaty, so he'll need to FF so he can catch them quickly and get on the ground asap.

- More spacing on AND less Nair. Too many persistent Nairs led to you being shieldgrabbed/oos upb'd /punished.

- More buffering. Your game was weak as ****. Too many SH double aerials. Not alot of buffering. If you buffered, your game would be Bossx2. Not to mention you would mix up ur game FAR much better,.

- Use every move in your arsenal. I did not see any Dsmash, crawl dash, any fancy mixups, SH fireballs. This is what makes luigi who he is.

- React more. Alot of boozer's moves are PS-able. His fsmash is ps-able.

- This is probably the most important of ANY FIGHTING GAME. Observe your opponent. That boozer likes to ledge jump alot. You could have reduce his options by just Double bairring him.

- Recover SMART. like every scruby luigi out there, they tend to immediately use their second jump and tornado even when their in range of a sweetspot the edge. By doing this, you serverly put yourself at risk, espically at ending lag. know the range of upb-ing to sweetspot the edge. Not to mention, charge your green missle and sweetspot the edge.


JUST SO YOU KNOW, POST SERIOUS MATCHS! NOT WITH YOU JUST WINNING ALL OF THEM. POST A MATCH WHERE YOU THINK BOTH U AND UR OPPONENT IS AT EQUAL SKILL, AND WITH YOU LOSING SERIOUSLY!!! THIS IS WHAT A SERIOUS CRITIQUING IS ABOUT!.

Elh, you need to play me on Wifi, or Zhao, or Chic. They'll demonstrate of what is today's luigis <3.
 

elheber

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 23, 2008
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elheber
So'kay. I'll update one of these days with serious matches if you promise comment on them.
EDIT: And minimal lag, so you can't quip about the Wolf/Fox matches either.
 

elheber

Smash Lord
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Los Angeles, California
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elheber
**** that was pretty insulting hippie. Not the critique, that was fine; I mean the "play you, zhao, or chic too see what today's Luigi is like" comment. I have played you, zhao, and chic.

Here's the thing hippie, for a while I've been thinking of making an "un-combo" video with only funny or interesting recoveries because for a long while I've been annoyed at people thinking Luigi's recovery is sub-par. Because of that, I've only recorded matches with funny or extreme recoveries. I'm sorry you think I'm only recording/posting matches in which I've won. I don't have many/any recent replays of "serious" matches other than perhaps Wolf/Zelda (same guy) and Ekzwizit (Fox), but it's not like in all the other games I'm trying to lose.

Anyway, thanks for the input. That time you said I should have ledgehogged but didn't, it is what I wanted to do, I just mistimed it. I hate Firebreath, so whenever someone does it the first time I DI into them for a FJP so they know not to do it again... had I been caught in it again, I would have only DI into FJP if he was at KO percentage. Also, at 2:02, I didn't get stuck under the stage with the Cyclone, it was on purpose. I've gotten better at controlling the height of my Cyclones. And yeah, I accidently GMed 3 times this game... 2 of them cost me a stock.

Choose Better: You mean, use the right attack for the corresponding situation, right? Is there any way to improve this other than playing more?
FF More: I do... especially after playing B+. The bad thing is, if I play vB shortly after B+, my FF timing gets effed.
More Spacing, Less nAir: Yes. Definetly something I'm working on.
More FFADs: Sure thing. This won't be difficult to change. I actually thought I did it pretty often in this match.
Mix It Up: This video is a bad example... I do do everything you listed there, except crawldashing.
React More: I suppose in this match it means Shield his fSmashes and whatnot. I don't remember the exact reason for it here, but it's normally not a problem I have. They really were blatantly obvious.
Observe the Opponent: Never a bad tip and certainly something I want to get much better at. Analysing a game while it's in progress... Mmmmm. Yes. I don't see how he likes to ledgehop as you said, but had I payed more attention I would have Shielded more often and nAir laned in front of him less.
Recover Smart: I don't get this one. I'm proud of my recoveries to the extent I want to make a video of them. To be sure, I counted the times I recovered from off-stage (5)... I was punished 2 times for my recoveries... one of them was the Firebreath and the other was the accidental GM release that led to a KO. Neither of them had anything to do with my Cyclones. I insist that Luigi's Cyclone is his best recovery and has a high reward to risk ratio. It's just that people don't know how to use it right.

I've always been told to make "compliment sandwitches" where you start with the positive, follow it up with the negative, and then finish with positive. I kind'a went the other way around in this post, so I'm sorry. It makes me look like a duche. But know that I really appreciate the time/work you put into that post. The good and the bad. I really wish more people that know me here would do the same. Thank you hippiedude.
 

ALiAsVee

Smash Ace
Joined
Apr 13, 2008
Messages
739
I find the combined efforts of myself and HIppie to be effective in rating videos, even though Hippie gonna start a fight with his bluntness xD.

Idk what Today's Luigi is really, cause it seems everyone has little nuances in their fighting styles, it makes it hard to find a standard. The little errors and blemishes in your gameplay aren't a big deal to me, but they are to Hippie xD. I think the best thing you can do is learn to observe your opponent, as mentioned. I didn't really pay too much attention to the rest of the videos, since the only true errors I could pick out are already mentioned by Hippie, or stuff that you are already aware most likely.

Despite input lag, the best thing you can take away from online is the match up experience. You (Elheber) mentioned somewhere that you can only get better technicalyl at the game while playing online, I find this untrue. Even if you play scrubs online, you're always bound to find SOMEONE who knows what they are doing. When you do, you need to use what you've learned to build a profile of the character. Use that noodle! It's capable of making thousands of connections and decisions in mere seconds. This holds true in most engagements with humans in some form of competition; the brain's tendency towards pattern.

You aren't fighting an arbitrary creature that has no rationale in the decisions they make in a game (if they don't suck, that is). If something works, they'll keep doing it. Your job is twofold; figure out how to defeat the enemy's tactic, and learn to exploit it for your advantage. It helps to fight people who are good with their characters, but just about anyone who picks up the controller can show you SOMETHING you hadn't of thought about.

Take for example the Baader-Meinhof Phenomenon. This is the phenomenon you experience when you learn something new and interesting, and then later on see "again" in life. For example, one day I learned through my doctor it was possible to have a third nipple (seriously), and then later that week when I was watching Youtube, Lily Allen was talking about her third nipple on a talk show. Although this is a coincidence, it can only be called so because of the obscure fact you had learned recently and the more recent event concerning the same topic. The brain is always making connections, and thus you get that weird sense of comparsion when you encounter a situation that matches the connection later in life.

In application to a game like Smash and online play; even the quirkiest quirks from some random player can prove to make a connection with an experience you can relate to later in life. The whole Wolf downthrow > fsmash bit was something new to me when I first played a newbie Wolf a whiles back. Although he was relatively inexperienced, it doesn't take much effort to realize that basic string is effective. Fast forward several months later, and I'm fighting Turbo Ether's wolf in a four-for-all at You Can't Defeat Air Man! in Princeton. Although I never really fought an experienced Wolf like Ether, I was immediately able to recognize the effectiveness and simplicity of the Dthrow > Fsmash.

So, fight anyone and everyone you can with a Brain, and watch anyone and everyone fight each other in videos. You're bound to learn something, make a connection, and then use it later. That's the essence of match up experience.
 

hippiedude92

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 23, 2008
Messages
5,981
Location
Wishing Apex 2012 happened again.
If my critique seems harsh, sorry about it. I like to point everything out although it took me 30mins for a critique for a 3min match lol.

In reality, (if you do become a tourney*** like some of us) it will be harsh. Facing the hardships of a luigi is one hell of a challenge. If you can pass that challenge, well you get my drift. But otherwise, expect these kinds of things. Ppl like Boss will "recreate" your luigi into a whole different thing that u dont even recongnize. They usually just like 3 stock the **** out of you, then they give you the techs/advice. From there, your luigi is a whole different from what you had before you fought lets say Boss. A much more effective luigi.

As for the play you today thing, sorry if that was insulting (LOL). Not trying to show off, but I'm just saying, get a feel of what our luigis are like right now. You've probably played us months back when you were active (before you went inactive). i'm just saying luigi's metagame is just slightly different in a way. Don't get me wrong, your luigi is great. You dont NEED to invest buffering, (FFADs) but it's something that will vastly increase and give a more variety of options in your moveset, the more options you have, the more you can use them in the right situations. Also ppl like Ultra luigi (best WC luigi) doesn't really buffer like crazy yet he still ***** with just SH double aerials (he's just that good OMFG<3)

Oh and Alias, I just felt like pointing them out, cus.. uhh you know lol... but I felt like critiquing alot in the begining but i get lazy in the middle (second stock) so i go to last stock.

As for getting punished out of recovery. Well, I'll have to watch your other videos if my critique on recovering lives up to it is true. All I'm saying is that, choose a better option. It's basically the risk to reward ratio. Is it worth it or not? (i.e tornado/dj recovery racks/anti edgeguard ppl but at the risk of ending lag, exposing blind spots.)

*to finalize it, sorry for it's insulting post *lolinternetemotions* *
 

zhao_guang

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 18, 2008
Messages
1,118
Location
Nova Scotia, Canada
NNID
zhaoguang1
I'm not sure it's fair to say that I have a "today's Luigi". I mean, I personally think elheber is better than me, as I have a style more like Ultra's with the SHDAs. (though not as effective). Elheb is starting to actually use buffering usefully in his game too. Me and elheb played maybe two Luigi dittos on wifi, and it was red latency, and dittos XD.

So all in all, I think elheb is better than me, and he's looking more like a today's Luigi every time I see a new vid of his.
 

hippiedude92

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 23, 2008
Messages
5,981
Location
Wishing Apex 2012 happened again.
he is pro cus he has fangirls that made a fan group of him. mad pro son mad pr0 <33 outdated luigis are like the old schoolers like Void who showed us that luigi can still SH double aerial and kick *** in the air. Tho with some lil buffering invested, it still works lol.
 

zhao_guang

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 18, 2008
Messages
1,118
Location
Nova Scotia, Canada
NNID
zhaoguang1
I'm actually Ken. SURPRISE :D

But in all seriousness, I'm not that good. That AiB fanclub was made as a joke XD. We all know hippie and chic are as pro as they get ;D
 

elheber

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 23, 2008
Messages
1,074
Location
Los Angeles, California
NNID
elheber
*shakes fist* zhao!!!! That's why I want to move to eastern Canada... 'cause the LA to zhao button lag is intense.

I'm uploading videos of some matches yesterday. The guy is at about my skill level and there's no lag, so you can plainly see the extent of my PS timing and recovery mistakes. I still pretty much only record funny/fun matches and these are no exception, but they're still pretty serious too. Are you not entertained, hippiedude? ARE YOU NOT ENTERTAINED?!

Sorry. I saw The Gladiator again yesterday. Good times, you guys.
 

elheber

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 23, 2008
Messages
1,074
Location
Los Angeles, California
NNID
elheber
WiiGi vs. Skyos
  • Toon Link - I'm gonna get slammed by hippie for the things I did here. But at least you can tell my powershielding is fine when there's no lag.
  • ZSS - I was getting a massive beating here, but my recoveries saved me and gimped him well enough.
  • Kirby - Hilarous yet serious. This is the video to watch. Promise.
 
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