Final Smashes: Should they be allowed competitively?

[Wu Tang Gang]

People, I want to know if Smash Balls should be allowed in competitive play. It's basically a part of a character's moveset. What's YOUR stance?

 

[Xiroey2]

[edited for privacy]

 

[SonicLuigi]

i think final smashes should be in competitive play, cuz it is in fact part of the characters moveset...

 

[FoxMaster77]

NO. They require an item to do so. You have to waste time breaking open a Smash Ball. Plus the Ice Climbers Final Smash turns the whole field into one giant Iceberg. Either ban the Ice Climbers, or ban Final Smashes completely. But we all know that banning Final Smashes completely will be the action taken.

 

[Aryman]

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=120356&highlight=ball+competitive

Please use the search function.

 

[Wu Tang Gang]

NO. They require an item to do so. You have to waste time breaking open a Smash Ball. Plus the Ice Climbers Final Smash turns the whole field into one giant Iceberg. Either ban the Ice Climbers, or ban Final Smashes completely. But we all know that banning Final Smashes completely will be the action taken.

Final Smashes are part of the moveset. It's like banning Wizard Spikes or Barrel Roll.

 

[Tobi-]

Final smashes will eventually be taken out. Smash ball is an item, therefore it will be banned. It allows you to do one mega "sweet' move, that looks cool and whatever, but really takes no skill and gives an advantage.
Smash balls are the same as party balls, except you get a almost free KO if you hit it first the most. Final smashes are apart of their moveset, but it still doesnt change the fact an item is needed to induce it. Me personally I don't care if it is banned or not, im not going to ever play in a tourney anyway, even if I was some pro.

 

[Diddy Kong]

The way a character uses the Beam Sword is also part of their moveset. No, I don't think Final Smashes should be allowed competive. Sure it's a cool new feature in Brawl, but the way I see it it's still an item.

 

[Lgndknight]

It doesn't give either a disadvantage or advantage, since both people have an equal opportunity to get a smash ball, unlike say, a pokeball, where it can spawn nearer to one person, smash balls fly around, so everybody has equal opportunity to get one. It does requires skill, moreover on the "Charge at them for a big combo" ones. however, that's balanced by the poor killing ability of the say.. Mario Finale, over the basically OHKO nature of Link's or Metaknight's.

 

[Your Hero]

it's a part of their moveset but not in the same way.
Besides.. If one of the smashers get the smashball (f.ex fox gets his special) then it's kind of cheap, since he's invinsible and he's killing everyone. The smash attack is more like a cheap shot rather than using skills to win.

 

[Wu Tang Gang]

The way a character uses the Beam Sword is also part of their moveset. No, I don't think Final Smashes should be allowed competive. Sure it's a cool new feature in Brawl, but the way I see it it's still an item.

Smash balls are probably going to be a tradition for newer Smash Games. Besides, it IS part of a moveset. This, IMO, should make it a loophole.

 

[Your Hero]

Smash balls are probably going to be a tradition for newer Smash Games. Besides, it IS part of a moveset. This, IMO, should make it a loophole.

I've heard that this brawl game will be the last one sakurai makes. That's why he's adding characters that people want and adding third party characters :\

 

[Hippochinfat]

465u

No. The only way I could see them in tournaments is for ZSS to be playable. Like the put smash balls on very low tell the other player that it's a ZSS and not a samus player, get samus to grab the smash ball and use her final smash in the opposite direction of where her opponent is facing so it's not cheap then start the game! Any smash balls that appear after should just be ignored.

 

[Ophelius]

I say that items are allowed in tournament play. That would solve your final smash problem, and make winning that much more challenging.

 

[Kirbilord]

For those of you who think Final Smashes ensure a kill every time:

No.

Most Final Smashes require proper timing and/or manuevering in order to be effective.

Take Diddy for example. His requires a combination of controlling and aiming which a master would be able to use for devastating effect. Meta Knight, as well, require skillful timing in order to pull off his FS.

Plus, literally every Final Smash has it's weak points. Here are just a few examples:

-Grab onto a ledge as Peach does he FS, so you don't fall asleep.
-Hop on top of Fox's Landmaster and jump to avoid barrel rolls while avoiding the cannon.
-Stand on the other side of the stage. (against DK's FS =P)
-Complcated dodging to avoid Volt Tackle, Palutena's Army, and Super Sonic.

So you see, Final Smashes are not as cheap as you may think. Yes, they are powerful attacks, but they do require skill in order to be pulled off effectively, especially in a tournament setting where combatants are at close quarters every second of the match.

In short, my response:

"Yeah, I'm for FS's in tournaments."

 

[Your Hero]

but what about gigabowser? ice climbers? lukas? Kirby? where are the skills there? they take the whole stage and your bound to get hit

 

[Flaming_Wuzzle]

First off, I have to say I'm not a tournament player, I will never be a tournament player, and I probably have no idea what the hell I'm talking about because of this.

That said, I really don't see why Final Smashes/Smash Balls would be banned. Those of you saying "IT'S AN ITEM, SO NO" sort of miss the point of why items (or anything else, for that matter) are banned, which is to remove luck from the game as much as possible. I understand why other items would be banned, but the Smash Ball flies around and you actually have to attack it for a bit before you unleash its goodness, so it seems a lot less luck-based than items normally are.

I'd definitely say that they should be banned if they worked the same as the E3 2006 trailer (i.e. they spawn in one place and you just have to run into it to get FS power), but after E4A and seeing how Smash Balls function now, I'm more inclined to think they'll be allowed.

 

[ph00tbag]

Ultimately, it would depend on how much control one has over item appearances. If you can even control the appearances of container items, then you could turn everything off except the Smash Ball and retain that aspect of the game.

As far as whether FSes require skill or not, it takes a certain amount of ability to attain a Smash Ball while avoiding getting hit and keeping one's opponent from snaking it. Then, the usage of the Final Smash is not just point and click. It generally requires timing and skill to pull it off successfully. Most FSes are also generally avoidable.

There is, of course, a balance question. Obviously, the moves are all very powerful, but some are much better than others. Furthermore, the goodness of a Final Smash does not seem to relate to the character's goodness. It's fine that Peach has a garbage FS, because she's otherwise very strong, but then why does DK get a crappy one when he seemed mediocre at best at EforAll? Bowser is slow and heavy, so it's difficult for him to get a Final Smash, but when he gets one, he's practically unbeatable. So why is it so easy for Sonic to get a Smash Ball when Super Sonic is quite possibly the best FS in the game?

Well, no fighting game has ever been truly balanced, so it's not so much to worry about that. Brawl isn't going to be balanced without FSes either, so it's not really an important question. What is important is that FSes are a major part of the game, and thus should be included if at all possible. The only thing that should preclude them is if container items cannot be turned off.

 

[Your Hero]

Some of us aren't talking about the fact that it's an item.

 

[Pyroloserkid]

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=120356&highlight=ball+competitive

Please use the search function.

Why is this discussion still going on?


Final Smashes SHOULD be in competitive play.

 

[user_name]

The only reason items are turned off (with the exception to some cheep items, such as heart container, max tomato, starman, etc..) Is because of the random exploding containers. If these containers could be turned off, then yes, FS balls should be used competitively, along with most other items.

 

[Lgndknight]

this topic is declared over. It's unanimous that FS's are fair. except for the minority

 

[Micahc]

What if the smash ball just happened to float by Bowser while he's on the other side of the map? What if it just happens to appear by my pit and starts floating around me? Isn't that all just luck?

 

[Lgndknight]

it's not like the smash ball is stationary, and you do have to hit it a few times to unleash the goodness

 

[Your Hero]

@Lgndknight: Just because most say yes, I see people here saying no to it..

NO. They require an item to do so. You have to waste time breaking open a Smash Ball. Plus the Ice Climbers Final Smash turns the whole field into one giant Iceberg. Either ban the Ice Climbers, or ban Final Smashes completely. But we all know that banning Final Smashes completely will be the action taken.

Final smashes will eventually be taken out. Smash ball is an item, therefore it will be banned. It allows you to do one mega "sweet' move, that looks cool and whatever, but really takes no skill and gives an advantage.
Smash balls are the same as party balls, except you get a almost free KO if you hit it first the most. Final smashes are apart of their moveset, but it still doesnt change the fact an item is needed to induce it. Me personally I don't care if it is banned or not, im not going to ever play in a tourney anyway, even if I was some pro.

He doesn't care, but his post sort of says why it shouldn't be added in.

The way a character uses the Beam Sword is also part of their moveset. No, I don't think Final Smashes should be allowed competive. Sure it's a cool new feature in Brawl, but the way I see it it's still an item.

it's a part of their moveset but not in the same way.
Besides.. If one of the smashers get the smashball (f.ex fox gets his special) then it's kind of cheap, since he's invinsible and he's killing everyone. The smash attack is more like a cheap shot rather than using skills to win.

No. The only way I could see them in tournaments is for ZSS to be playable. Like the put smash balls on very low tell the other player that it's a ZSS and not a samus player, get samus to grab the smash ball and use her final smash in the opposite direction of where her opponent is facing so it's not cheap then start the game! Any smash balls that appear after should just be ignored.

 

[iMichael]

I believe if the Smash Balls are going to be on they should be put on very low, that way only one or two spawn per match. That way players wont rely on smash balls and will still have to use skill. Not all FS's are one hit kills as someone stated earlier. You can easily dodge Meta's, Ike's, Link's, Peach's, Dk's etc. I think we should give them a go, but I remember seeing somewhere that Hugs didn't want them on. I think the reason is because Samus loses her armor and becomes Zero Suit and he doesn't want to play as her. That's just what I think.

 

[Marthmaster92]

i think that will be the case as well, for them to be set to a low number. I agree that they should be allowed in competitive play, but to make it where they only appear once or twice would make it even then. Because that way nobody just goes for the final smash and that's all they do.

Personally, they should be allowed in. I mean, come on now, that could give bowser a competitive edge and a chance to make a comeback if he's used in a tourney.


Just my personal opinion.

 

[Ophelius]

The first person to completely dodge PK Starstorm on Final D gets a cookie!

 

[kunai_abuser]

I'll hold you to that!

 

[Lgndknight]

I'd love to accept your challenge. Just get me a match where Lucas gets a smash ball before me. Metaknight = jumps + Shuttle loop. Lucas has Ness's bair dropkick?

 

[iMichael]

The first person to completely dodge PK Starstorm on Final D gets a cookie!

I'll hold you to that!

I'd love to accept your challenge. Just get me a match where Lucas gets a smash ball before me. Metaknight = jumps + Shuttle loop. Lucas has Ness's bair dropkick?

Lets try to stay on topic here please. This is a good debate, I think the smashballs should be in tournaments but put on very low or just not have them at all.

 

[Cpatain_Doompants]

What is the problem with Final Smashes? Sure they MAY give the first person to grab it an edge, but one player might not want the final smash and abuse their opponents greed, resulting in a smack every time they attempt to grab it. The advantage is not absolute as well, the smash ball can be knocked out of people if dealt enough damage and about half the Final Smash's require aim and timing to execute successfully. As far as i see it, Final Smashes add another strategic level to the game.

 

[Lgndknight]

that's right. smash ball guarding FTW. lol@ new term. Ballhogging!

 

[Your Hero]

If it's in, atleast allow an option to not have them appear, and have ZSS with her own character option.

 

[Cpatain_Doompants]

While i agree with the ZSS character option, they should not be turned off. It may be because i enjoy shiny things and explosions but the final smashes are part of what makes Brawl a successor to Melee. If Smash Balls must be taken out I'd much rather have dud smash balls, like super and poison mushrooms so the entire ballhogging (yay I inspired a term!) tactic remains possible.

 

[super-7]

it would suck to have them in competitive play
if you get it your basically screwed
eg if u play a link or mario and they get it, your pretty much done..

 

[omfgomfg]

hmmmmmmmm
i might change my stance on this one

 

[Lgndknight]

it would suck to have them in competitive play
if you get it your basically screwed
eg if u play a link or mario and they get it, your pretty much done..

you said suck and screwed in a topic about balls...

don't take this the wrong way but theres some sick-minded people out there... be warned

EDIT: Mario's FS isn't really as insta-kill as Link's

 

[Xanderous]

Absolutely not. It's basically a free kill.

 

[Lgndknight]

Mario's FS? if you get above it it's as harmless as a box