FifthCPU's Custom AI Discussion/Workshop

[Volt-Ikazuchi]

Only found this thread today, so is this still a thing? I'd love to test out the new 3.6 CPU's and maybe even work on them a bit.

(I'd need to actually learn this game first though, I play PM like Smash 64 lol. Oddly enough, I can understand the code, doesn't really seem that different from C.)

 

[FifthCPU]

Only found this thread today, so is this still a thing? I'd love to test out the new 3.6 CPU's and maybe even work on them a bit.

(I'd need to actually learn this game first though, I play PM like Smash 64 lol. Oddly enough, I can understand the code, doesn't really seem that different from C.)

Woah, RIP my inbox, turns out each like gives me a notification. I'm on hiatus for now and my DL is offline unfortunately. I know I'm very wishy washy on the whole legal thing and what I should do so I'm just staying away for a while until I can figure stuff out.

 

[Sluigi123]

I like the idea of AI Editing for more than a year; so I'm trying to figure out what AS file does what in the Fighter.Pac. I might make a list of them if you want me to, that way everyone gets the idea of it.

 

[FifthCPU]

I like the idea of AI Editing for more than a year; so I'm trying to figure out what AS file does what in the Fighter.Pac. I might make a list of them if you want me to, that way everyone gets the idea of it.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that list already contained within routines.h in the include folder?

Also reality64

 

[Sluigi123]

The routines that I'm looking for are the ones with Unk# in the listing.
Ex. 1010.as: Very related for AI to be in front of and very close to the opponent(s).

 

[FifthCPU]

Ah, gotcha. Not sure I'll be much help since I've kinda quit modding, but we'll see

 

[FifthCPU]

Just going to toss this out there:

https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/40883r/a_better_ai_for_melee_project_in_development/

If this could be applied to brawl... the possibilities...

Even so, I might be wrong about my smash modding career being over, since this doesn't involve distribution of the game's files or anything. Its writing code straight into dolphin for the game to execute.

EDIT: Still nope, smash modding is over. See most recent post.

 

[nimigoha]

Just going to toss this out there:

https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/40883r/a_better_ai_for_melee_project_in_development/

If this could be applied to brawl... the possibilities...

Even so, I might be wrong about my smash modding career being over, since this doesn't involve distribution of the game's files or anything. Its writing code straight into dolphin for the game to execute.

Technically if you write your own AIs from scratch are you distributing the game's files?

I miss you and your exploits

 

[FifthCPU]

Technically if you write your own AIs from scratch are you distributing the game's files?

I miss you and your exploits

True, I miss me too

I've looked into it and its insanely murky. Technically even just modifying files is not necessarily maybe legal according to some sources? It's all so complex, it makes my head hurt. I don't even know how AIScriptpad writes things into the game's code, whether it actually uses the game's code or just straight up writes assembly into the file.

I'm such a wuss about stuff like this.

 

[nimigoha]

Haha just have to make do with the awesome stuff you did make.

 

[Volt-Ikazuchi]

True, I miss me too

I've looked into it and its insanely murky. Technically even just modifying files is not necessarily maybe legal according to some sources? It's all so complex, it makes my head hurt. I don't even know how AIScriptpad writes things into the game's code, whether it actually uses the game's code or just straight up writes assembly into the file.

I'm such a wuss about stuff like this.

The problem is that modding is a very, very murky legal gray area.

However, there are things that kinda catch too much attention, and start being brought to tournaments, and tournaments include money and whenever money is thrown into the equation, s*** hits the fan pretty badly for modders.

On the other hand, things like small customizations to characters or even remodels from scratch do get a blind eye.

Modding AI can be treated as an educational experience, and more importantly, gets no profit whatsoever.

No one ever bothers with AI on a tournament. (Aside from IC players, but no one would take AI mods there because it's grounds for DQ)

However, the casual players and tournament players seeking ways to practice combos do benefit from a modded AI.

So considering it is a minor mod mostly for educational purposes, (Ex: I'm interested in modding AI so I can learn more about coding and to learn tech that will make me a better player.) I don't think this is going to get anyone in trouble.

Obviously, I completely understand any fears about the whole thing, I stopped modding a Pokemon Stadium 2 rom when I realized it could grow too big because I couldn't find anyone who managed to do that. There's always the option of knowing when to fold.

But yeah, considering that Brawl Vault is a thing, AI Mods are the least of Nintendo's problems.

 

[GFooChombey]

I think if there's a time to do something like this, it's now. A lot of players, especially casuals, are hungry for content in their PM since we were left hanging (if they even stuck around at all). People often talk about keeping the game alive through tournaments, articles, and videos, but I think custom content is just as important. I also think, and this is just my opinion, that things are going to get harder for our community in this coming year and the more reasons we have to play, the more likely we survive.

 

[FifthCPU]

[gif removed]

This took far too long to get the frame data correct, and is kinda useless. But my goal is to incorporate what I wrote here into shield pressure. This is what frame perfect Wolf multishines look like (although the gif is greatly slowed down). 20WW? Is that a thing?

Not sure whether I'll make anything again or this'll be it, but I enjoyed making this.

 

[FifthCPU]

EDIT: This project is no longer a thing. Am I being a jerk by editing all my old posts? Maybe. But I'm so done with this stuff.

 

[Eljunbyro]

I found this thread just after the download links were removed, and was extremely depressed. I have no humans to play with, so any improvement to the AI (like a ZSS that actually recovers) is just about my number one dream improvement to PM. As other people have said, there is little to no legal danger from AI modifications, and I would be grateful beyond words if they could ever be put back up. I have tried to respect the creator's wishes and just leave the topic alone, but considering how much work has been put into my dream, it tears me up that it has now gone to waste.

 

[FifthCPU]

I found this thread just after the download links were removed, and was extremely depressed. I have no humans to play with, so any improvement to the AI (like a ZSS that actually recovers) is just about my number one dream improvement to PM. As other people have said, there is little to no legal danger from AI modifications, and I would be grateful beyond words if they could ever be put back up. I have tried to respect the creator's wishes and just leave the topic alone, but considering how much work has been put into my dream, it tears me up that it has now gone to waste.

I'm sorry, and trust me I'm really cut up too. AI Modding means an incredible amount to me, its something that comes so naturally and I enjoy so much (EXCEPT FOR WOLF-BOT RIGHT NOW, SCREW HIM). It's my dream too. I'm currently searching for a solution which will allow me to be comfortable with what I'm doing but still somehow allow me to work on this, but it's also the beginning of my semester so I'm currently focused on not being buried academically.

@KingClubber I actually have a question for you on how AIScriptpad works that could help me with this. Can I ask for some input?

 

[FifthCPU]

So Wolf has been abandoned, since his file is either corrupted or somehow different, and he doesn't obey Smash's state machine AI system. I tried a workaround, but it's failed. Its pretty frustrating, especially since I even got comboing into wolf flash to start working.

My life is as usual insanely busy, but I'm occasionally putting in some time on a Tink AI. Taught him to combo into Up-B at high percents and kill ledge-campers, so that's cool.

EDIT: I will say that I was really proud of my workaround for Wolf. I essentially wrote my own state machine system within their state machine system (INCEPTION BWWAAAAA). Unfortunately it wasn't good enough for my tastes, but it was at least functional.

 

[FifthCPU]

That moment when you realize that there was an easy way to drastically improve every single character's combo routine with only two lines of code, then you realize that it'll never happen because no more PM development.

On the plus side, wolf works again. He refuses to confirm into side-B correctly, but he still does stuff.

 

[nimigoha]

That moment when you realize that there was an easy way to drastically improve every single character's combo routine with only two lines of code, then you realize that it'll never happen because no more PM development.

On the plus side, wolf works again. He refuses to confirm into side-B correctly, but he still does stuff.

What is the code and what does it do and can I copy and paste it into my files to make the computers noticeably better?

 

[Sundark]

Hey Fifth, I saw an old thread on Reddit the other day about a Samus AI you made specifically to shoot missiles and charge shots, so one could practice power shielding. The link doesn't seem to work though, do you have a mirror up somewhere?

 

[FifthCPU]

What is the code and what does it do and can I copy and paste it into my files to make the computers noticeably better?

I can post it on here at some point relatively soon, the combo routine was written a long time ago by Bero and is REEEAAALLLY complicated (I'm still not even sure why it uses vectors or what half of the subroutines are doing), so I'm still in the process of editing it and making sure I'm not causing CPUs to use their other aerials less often.

Essentially, it's two lines that can be pasted into any character's 4020.as, and they allow CPUs to use Nair in their combos. In 3.6, most CPUs will only use Fair, Dair, Uair, and Bair while the opponent is in hitstun. While Nair isn't always great combo material and it probably isn't helpful for all characters, for characters like Wolf adding these lines made a HUGE difference and made them way better.

Hey Fifth, I saw an old thread on Reddit the other day about a Samus AI you made specifically to shoot missiles and charge shots, so one could practice power shielding. The link doesn't seem to work though, do you have a mirror up somewhere?

I've taken everything down temporarily, but I'm working on getting them back up in a way that doesn't involve file distribution, and instead involves "builders" or something. I'm thinking maybe just putting up .txt files of my code and instructions on how to patch them into AIScriptpad. For now, the regular Samus CPU on FD works semi-decently for practicing powershielding, since it's super spammy anyway.

EDIT: Never uploading any of this. Bask in my paranoia and law-abidingness.

 

[ECHOnce]

Another idea I've had for a while, since we seem to be throwing some out rn. A CPU command (once they're fixed) that tells the computer to only walk up and grab you would be amazing for practicing optimal mash-outs. Hopefully that's possible to program lol, I've heard Melee CPU codes are pretty funky. If it is, the extra mile on this would be adding toggles for pummeling and delayed throws, so you can practice reacting to different throw animations (stop mashing and DI properly) if you don't mash out in time.

EDIT: I suppose the last part wouldn't be as important in Melee though lol. That came more from a PM perspective; tons of 50-50 grab mixups, and kill throws (which would have longer animations, so a common PM flowchart is to immediately DI the combo throw first, and then react with kill throw DI). ...It'd still be neat I guess?

Maybe?

 

[Brisk187]

I've taken everything down temporarily, but I'm working on getting them back up in a way that doesn't involve file distribution, and instead involves "builders" or something.

If you are still working on this, just letting you know that we are looking forward to it. Your AI potentially has a lot to offer in terms of solo practice.

 

[ECHOnce]

Would you be able to point us towards resources we can use to teach ourselves basic CPU AI coding? I have zero programming knowledge or experience, but if there are legal restrictions to sharing even basic AI that just do nothing but stand/walk, recover, DI randomly (no survival), jump/dodge/attack out of hitstun, and use random tech/getup options, I'd be wiling to invest however much time I need to teach myself+friends how to make our own. I'm desperate to grind and figure out PM-specific characters' punish flowcharts, but it's kinda hard when the only available CPUs out there don't DI/getup randomly (excluding your 20SS which I still have, but Squirtle is just one char, and is a unique weight/size lol).

 

[Life]

Would you be able to point us towards resources we can use to teach ourselves basic CPU AI coding? I have zero programming knowledge or experience, but if there are legal restrictions to sharing even basic AI that just do nothing but stand/walk, recover, DI randomly (no survival), jump/dodge/attack out of hitstun, and use random tech/getup options, I'd be wiling to invest however much time I need to teach myself+friends how to make our own. I'm desperate to grind and figure out PM-specific characters' punish flowcharts, but it's kinda hard when the only available CPUs out there don't DI/getup randomly (excluding your 20SS which I still have, but Squirtle is just one char, and is a unique weight/size lol).

I don't actually do the coding, but a lot of it seems to be breaking down the decision-making logic behind the game into its smallest parts, then translating it into the AIscriptpad code--see the wavelanding code elsewhere in the thread and compare it to knowing how a human does a waveland. Beyond that, just gotta know what you want the bot to do.

Fifthcpu said he's largely quit out of frustration; the legal thing (which we've all told him is really flimsy, he knows) just gave him an excuse IIRC.

 

[Eljunbyro]

Fifthcpu said he's largely quit out of frustration; the legal thing (which we've all told him is really flimsy, he knows) just gave him an excuse IIRC.

That's all well and good, and any reasonable person can and will respect that.

Taking down the files, however, is rather extreme. Some people (such as myself) have no humans to play with and would love any and all AI improvements. I can't help that I only found this thread two days after the downloads were removed.

 

[FifthCPU]

That's all well and good, and any reasonable person can and will respect that.

Taking down the files, however, is rather extreme. Some people (such as myself) have no humans to play with and would love any and all AI improvements. I can't help that I only found this thread two days after the downloads were removed.

I realize its rather extreme. But basically, I don't want to distribute game content. I realize that the legal risk is extremely small and that this isn't a popular decision (and likely not a smart one), but I'm simply not comfortable with the risk. This is my final decision.

EDIT: Looking back at these, I know how indecisive I look. But that's mainly because I don't like disappointing others. I haven't planned on releasing anything and decided on this shortly after the legal issues surrounding P:M came out, and any vacillation on my part was me not being brave enough to simply come out and say "No." I apologize for not being as transparent about this earlier (I'm kind of a jerk, I realize that), but the despite appearances my answer has always been "No."

 

[Brisk187]

Thanks for not staying silent about the ordeal. I understand your choice and hopefully we won't push further. I'm still treating this thread like an AI workshop in the vain hope that there are still active modders out there.

So with that, I downloaded AIScript and opened up FitFoxMotionEtc.pac. In order to start from a blank slate, I rewrote every event handler so that nothing happens during any event. Here's a section of AIPD.aipd. Everything else in that space looks like this code:

...
InAir {
  Nothing 100,100,100,0
}

MeteoChance {
  Nothing 100,100,100,0
}
...

Fox now (mostly) stands still and does nothing. However, this doesn't seem to erase all of Fox's behavior. Specifically, when I Dthrow him with Falcon, he'll tech or do normal get-up options. This is a potential problem because I believe it's why I'm unsuccessful in implementing KingClubber's Tech Code. Is there a way to erase this behavior or is that beyond Brawl modding?

 

[K1!]

I just found this thread now and I'm sad that it was discontinued but I understand your point of view. I have some coding experience and I would like to try proggaming a little, I have already added the 4010 and 4020 to the routines.h but I didn't understood what routines in the AIscriptpad I have to change to make the AI do something like random DI, if there's no problem could you explain this to me?

 

[Fudgepop01]

Heyooo - fudge here. I've got a question: Where does one find AIMain? ._.

I keep trying to make a new project in AIScriptPad2.0 with <fighter>MotionEtc.pac yet when i open it up I can't find an AIMain file that exists. I'm confused. Do I need to make it myself? :o

 

[Frakture]

Heyooo - fudge here. I've got a question: Where does one find AIMain? ._.

I keep trying to make a new project in AIScriptPad2.0 with <fighter>MotionEtc.pac yet when i open it up I can't find an AIMain file that exists. I'm confused. Do I need to make it myself? :o

AIPD.aipd is main. It determines what routine to branch to depending on game context and RNG. You can make your own main by changing all of the events to "function name" 100,100,0,0 with function name being what module you want as your main. It isn't perfect, because Brawl will still force branches to certain modules in certain contexts, like grabbing a ledge, but it's the best you can do.