|FBT6 - BRAWL| March 20-21 Oshkosh, WI. West Circuit Event #2 - Results in 1st Post!

[hunger!]

boots, you got some things wrong about my pool
-wafles wasnt in my pool.
-scythe is from IL
-my pool had people from every state that was there
-and yes it was balanced. you cant say that it wasnt just because jordan barely scraped by or w/e. some people are just better in teams (me being one of them)

The only pool that was ridiculously hard and wasnt balanced at all was the pool that was on the projector

 

[kirbycpok]

/agree with hunger, that pool was unbalanced as ****

Also wafles, its not only the midwest, its the ******* that didnt even go thats bashing on this tournament. As said like 6 posts ago "Shut the **** up and get over it"<-- was my main message

 

[LouBega]

Pools weren't set up well according to skill. ASC (my doubles partner from MO), went 12-0 in his pool; hot and awesome as he may be, he's not good enough to do that in a balanced pool. Jordan, 1/2 of Team Real Team (which got third in doubles) BARELY made it out of his pool, scraping by with 4th. His pool had Hunger, Scythe, and Wafles from WI (who are all good players) and Jlo and Blank from IA (who are also good players!).

waffles wan't in my pool, but norm was.

anyway, i had a really good time, and good job with your pepsi stuff and your great venue, but pools and brackets were done really poorly. very, very poorly.

shoutouts will be in the result thread.

 

[Wafles]

I heard I'm ugly, but maybe my opinion still counts?



First of all, pools should've determined the seeding and there should've been a 64 man bracket. The 5 byes in singles would've been given to the 5 highest placing people in pools, so it wouldn't have been random at all. Brackets were interesting, I heard, because THREE OF FOUR MO PLAYERS played each other. This was especially interesting because according to seeding from pools, Jordan (from MO) was set to play Hunger (from WI), but that got switched so that Jordan had to play ASC (from MO). I'm not really sure why this happened, but the fact that pool seeding was ignored made no sense - why did pools even happen then?!



Pools weren't set up well according to skill. ASC (my doubles partner from MO), went 12-0 in his pool; hot and awesome as he may be, he's not good enough to do that in a balanced pool. Jordan, 1/2 of Team Real Team (which got third in doubles) BARELY made it out of his pool, scraping by with 4th. His pool had Hunger, Scythe, and Wafles from WI (who are all good players) and Jlo and Blank from IA (who are also good players!).

I'm not trying to john, because I didn't play well enough to get out of my pool. I'm not making excuses for myself, I'm trying to explain why the tournament wasn't run particularly well. You talk about getting a sponsorship, which is great, but I personally would've appreciated fairer pools more than getting free Pepsi and Mountain Dew.

Meeting all you WI people was really cool though, and the tournament overall was really fun, I had a good time. All I (and IA) are trying to say is that the tournament could've been run much better. People (including me) get serious about circuit tournaments and since this WAS a circuit tournament, we expected that pools would've been divided up fairly, brackets would've been handled according to seeding in pools, and that more people (some of whom probably deserved to make it out of pools) would've gotten to play in the bracket. Just because some players aren't "good enough to win the tournament" doesn't mean that they aren't good enough to make the bracket and get some circuit points.

We reset the pools way more than 3 times, spikes had that wrong, I had reset them because of skill/locaiton issues at least 12 times, and then we reshuffled people according to location and skill, but still it is nearly impossible to balance each and every single pool without being some kind of all knowing being. I didn't know how good every single person was, and this is the function of pools, to determine at least a good idea of how good everyone is so that we can send them to the bracket in a more fair manner. The bracket then sets the final results and from what I can see they were pretty **** reasonable.

To clarify: I'm a terrible player. I don't play well in singles at all, and I only play well in doubles when I'm really, really focused. For me to scrape by with a 3rd seed in my pool means that the pool in general was not that hard. Ook is a beast, that's all I'm gonna say else about my pool.

If you didn't make it out of pools, or you had a rediculously hard pool, you should've said something when we called them out. We were more than happy to switch things around. I personally didn't hear one complaint about any single pool being too hard for a really good player to make it out of.

We were in no way obligated to give people pity placements in a 64 person bracket for no reason. A 32 person bracket was way more fair. It's really easy to complain and start fights on the internet, yet only very small fractions of any of this were brought to mine/spikes attention at the venue. Next time just don't lie down and take it, stand up for yourself and make your point instead of waiting to ***** about it on some internet forums.

 

[Vinodh]

There's no way im missing the melee tournament : )

 

[Wafles]

There's no way im missing the melee tournament : )

I'm gonna crush you with pichu at it. =)

 

[Blank Mauser]

We reset the pools way more than 3 times, spikes had that wrong, I had reset them because of skill/locaiton issues at least 12 times, and then we reshuffled people according to location and skill, but still it is nearly impossible to balance each and every single pool without being some kind of all knowing being. I didn't know how good every single person was, and this is the function of pools, to determine at least a good idea of how good everyone is so that we can send them to the bracket in a more fair manner. The bracket then sets the final results and from what I can see they were pretty **** reasonable.

To clarify: I'm a terrible player. I don't play well in singles at all, and I only play well in doubles when I'm really, really focused. For me to scrape by with a 3rd seed in my pool means that the pool in general was not that hard. Ook is a beast, that's all I'm gonna say else about my pool.

If you didn't make it out of pools, or you had a rediculously hard pool, you should've said something when we called them out. We were more than happy to switch things around. I personally didn't hear one complaint about any single pool being too hard for a really good player to make it out of.

We were in no way obligated to give people pity placements in a 64 person bracket for no reason. A 32 person bracket was way more fair. It's really easy to complain and start fights on the internet, yet only very small fractions of any of this were brought to mine/spikes attention at the venue. Next time just don't lie down and take it, stand up for yourself and make your point instead of waiting to ***** about it on some internet forums.

I think Nicole mixed you up for MachineGunNorm lol.

 

[LouBega]

We were in no way obligated to give people pity placements in a 64 person bracket for no reason. A 32 person bracket was way more fair. It's really easy to complain and start fights on the internet, yet only very small fractions of any of this were brought to mine/spikes attention at the venue. Next time just don't lie down and take it, stand up for yourself and make your point instead of waiting to ***** about it on some internet forums.

only reason i think eliminating people from pools was dumb was because we had a ton of time, and it made people who got eliminated not come the next day for doubles.

and there is no way pools were balanced. nicole wasn't saying they weren't balanced because i barely scraped by. she was saying it because blank didn't even make brackets, yet he was going toe to toe with lain in friendlies. and asc didn't lose a game.

 

[Wafles]

I think Nicole mixed you up for MachineGunNorm lol.

lol totally not a fair thing to do to norm. Rapist Norm is way cooler than myself.
I saw my name and assumed. The only person I knew in my pool was ook, so I saw my name and assumed. =p

 

[Wafles]

only reason i think eliminating people from pools was dumb was because we had a ton of time, and it made people who got eliminated not come the next day for doubles.

and there is no way pools were balanced. nicole wasn't saying they weren't balanced because i barely scraped by. she was saying it because blank didn't even make brackets, yet he was going toe to toe with lain in friendlies. and asc didn't lose a game.

1. The tourney went until like 8PM, adding twice as many matches would've theoretically kept it going until midnight.

2. Key word is friendlies. Not actually tournament matches. The kirby didn't look bad, but Lain definitely wasn't playing like he does in tournament.

3. Some pools will be harder than others, sure, but if someone is really good there's no reason they couldnt' make it out. All I see is johns.

 

[Endless Nightmares]

Brawl Community: You ****ing suck.

Fixed.

Brawl: You ****ing suck.

alternate fix.

 

[hunger!]

lock this thread.

 

[Uli]

looking forward to that melee tourney

If a melee tourny ever does happen and doesn't get canceled to be brawl only give a holler at NE :D

 

[MachinegunNorm]

lock this thread.

yeah.. result thread is already up.

also yeah i got 2nd seed in my pool. and i pretty much ***** everyone but hunger in it... well and scythe did ok until he switched to mk..that match was lol.

 

[eighteenspikes]

lock this thread.

 

[Jahordon]

Can someone clarify something for me?

In the match of Fade v. Jahordan: Who won? My TIO got messed up and this is the only match I can't get a confirmation on.

This was first round losers bracket and really only affects the placement of these two people.

Fade won 2-1.

 

[Wafles]

Yeah, lets end this drama. Result thread is up, and any concern there is has been dealt with and explained. Stop complaining, and leave this thread alone. This could've been some cool discussion and chatting, but it got ruined. Thanks.

 

[Jahordon]

boots, you got some things wrong about my pool
-wafles wasnt in my pool.
-scythe is from IL
-my pool had people from every state that was there
-and yes it was balanced. you cant say that it wasnt just because jordan barely scraped by or w/e. some people are just better in teams (me being one of them)

The only pool that was ridiculously hard and wasnt balanced at all was the pool that was on the projector

Blame Sago for using Meatknife instead of Samus. I'm lucky to have made it out of there alive.

I've only been to three tournaments (one Melee and two Brawl), but I thought this was excellently run. Free, convenient parking was great, as was free lodging in multiple rooms or even couches if you wanted. The projector was great, and the sponsorship from Pepsi was incredible (even though I don't drink pop). Thank you, Spikes.

 

[Cook]

We were in no way obligated to give people pity placements in a 64 person bracket for no reason. A 32 person bracket was way more fair. It's really easy to complain and start fights on the internet, yet only very small fractions of any of this were brought to mine/spikes attention at the venue. Next time just don't lie down and take it, stand up for yourself and make your point instead of waiting to ***** about it on some internet forums.

Only a small fraction brought it up because there's no need for everyone who has a problem to go and complain when one person can just represent them. You guys knew I was speaking for IA and MO when I said we should just do a 64 man bracket, and I said that a lot of people were gonna be upset, so you guys should probably have seen this great debate coming.

1. The tourney went until like 8PM, adding twice as many matches would've theoretically kept it going until midnight.

2. Key word is friendlies. Not actually tournament matches. The kirby didn't look bad, but Lain definitely wasn't playing like he does in tournament.

3. Some pools will be harder than others, sure, but if someone is really good there's no reason they couldnt' make it out. All I see is johns.

8 PM is a REALLY early time to finish. Midnight is pretty typical. Anyway, time wouldn't have been an issue if we hadn't done doubles pools (which were kinda needless and not planned for, while having a 64 person bracket WAS planned for). Also, there would have been more teams to begin with if we had done a 64 man bracket because people wouldn't have just left because they were eliminated, and so it would have filled out a 32 team bracket better. So there would have been less reason to have doubles pools.


There were lots of other things I wanted to respond to, but I don't want to go back and find them so I'll just post my thoughts. I think it is kinda silly that the TOs looked at the bracket and just decided who the top four were going to be and made sure they weren't near each other in the bracket. What did they base that on? Just how good they thought everyone else was? If they wanted to separate the top four players they should have based it on just the pools results, where the four players who had the best pools records are kept separate. You guys def didn't base it on that, otherwise you would have made sure that I was kept separate from the other top three, since I had the best pools record. Instead you ignored my record and moved me around to accommodate the four players who you expected to do best, putting me in the same section of the bracket as my two crew members so that I had to play them both in my first two rounds. I know Hunger aid something about how he and his partner got first in doubles, so they should be on opposite sides of singles bracket. That doesn't make sense, doubles results should have no bearing on the singles bracket. Besides, Jordan and Kit got third and they were set to play each other SECOND ROUND.

Also, it is cool that we got free drinks from Pepsi, but seriously, people care much more about the actual tournament and the way it was run than they do about free drinks.

Ummm... I forgot the other stuff I was gonna say... I guess I'll just edit if I think of something.

P.S. Hunger wouldn't clothes match me. Hunger is a little *****; I even offered to sandbag!

P.S.S. I wish Inferno had been able to attend, then we probably wouldn't have had these problems.

 

[gantrain05]

i don't really see how wisconsin is even arguing this case, first off you guys never even seeded people by circuit points, WHICH YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO DO. people with circuit points are not supposed to be playing in pools, but i guess those of us with circuit points that got knocked out of pools didn't deserve to get into brackets? wtf was the point of going to NO KOAST then? i'm not normally one to throw out johns, but when rules are blatantly ignored thats a different story.

 

[Wafles]

Only a small fraction brought it up because there's no need for everyone who has a problem to go and complain when one person can just represent them. You guys knew I was speaking for IA and MO when I said we should just do a 64 man bracket, and I said that a lot of people were gonna be upset, so you guys should probably have seen this great debate coming.



8 PM is a REALLY early time to finish. Midnight is pretty typical. Anyway, time wouldn't have been an issue if we hadn't done doubles pools (which were kinda needless and not planned for, while having a 64 person bracket WAS planned for). Also, there would have been more teams to begin with if we had done a 64 man bracket because people wouldn't have just left because they were eliminated, and so it would have filled out a 32 team bracket better. So there would have been less reason to have doubles pools.


There were lots of other things I wanted to respond to, but I don't want to go back and find them so I'll just post my thoughts. I think it is kinda silly that the TOs looked at the bracket and just decided who the top four were going to be and made sure they weren't near each other in the bracket. What did they base that on? Just how good they thought everyone else was? If they wanted to separate the top four players they should have based it on just the pools results, where the four players who had the best pools records are kept separate. You guys def didn't base it on that, otherwise you would have made sure that I was kept separate from the other top three, since I had the best pools record. Instead you ignored my record and moved me around to accommodate the four players who you expected to do best, putting me in the same section of the bracket as my two crew members so that I had to play them both in my first two rounds. I know Hunger aid something about how he and his partner got first in doubles, so they should be on opposite sides of singles bracket. That doesn't make sense, doubles results should have no bearing on the singles bracket. Besides, Jordan and Kit got third and they were set to play each other SECOND ROUND.

Also, it is cool that we got free drinks from Pepsi, but seriously, people care much more about the actual tournament and the way it was run than they do about free drinks.

Ummm... I forgot the other stuff I was gonna say... I guess I'll just edit if I think of something.

P.S. Hunger wouldn't clothes match me. Hunger is a coward!

P.S.S. I wish Inferno had been able to attend, then we probably wouldn't have had these problems.

I was gonna type a response to this, but instead I insist you read the last 5 pages again, especially spikes post. Any point you've made has already been addressed and all you're doing is *****ing more for no reason.

 

[Wafles]

i don't really see how wisconsin is even arguing this case, first off you guys never even seeded people by circuit points, WHICH YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO DO. people with circuit points are not supposed to be playing in pools, but i guess those of us with circuit points that got knocked out of pools didn't deserve to get into brackets? wtf was the point of going to NO KOAST then? i'm not normally one to throw out johns, but when rules are blatantly ignored thats a different story.

Rofl, when only half a dozen people show up with circuit points in a major circuit event, and they don't even perform well in pools/bracket play, I don't see how you can even argue this point. It would've been completely ****ing hilarious to give people a straight shot to the bracket even though they're not that good.

 

[eighteenspikes]

Also, it is cool that we got free drinks from Pepsi, but seriously, people care much more about the actual tournament and the way it was run than they do about free drinks.

ugh. okay heres where it gets personal because that sponsorship was the most prolific behind the scenes part of the entire tournament. getting sponsored by pepsi doesnt mean we get a couple cases of pop. we got nearly $1,000 that covered the room fees, staffing fees, rental fees, and yeah, i guess it did cover the drinks too. did you seriously think that venue would have been covered by $5 a person? this kind of ignorance is exactly why im so disappointed in the brawl community.

 

[gantrain05]

Rofl, when only half a dozen people show up with circuit points in a major circuit event, and they don't even perform well in pools/bracket play, I don't see how you can even argue this point. It would've been completely ****ing hilarious to give people a straight shot to the bracket even though they're not that good.

well this is what i heard strait from our circuit leaders mouth. also i can assure you that everyone there that showed up with circuit points was easily good enough that they should have been in the brackets.

just stop dodging the accusations. you didn't follow the circuit rules, you really have no defense here plain and simple.

 

[Blank Mauser]

Rofl, when only half a dozen people show up with circuit points in a major circuit event, and they don't even perform well in pools/bracket play, I don't see how you can even argue this point. It would've been completely ****ing hilarious to give people a straight shot to the bracket even though they're not that good.

You're right. Its hilarious to seed things fairly.

Heck I don't have a problem with changing brackets based on whatever skewed judgment you have (You said yourself you're bad right?) but when you don't accommodate/ignore other players then theres a problem. Hunger, Tapion, Lain and Rofa weren't the only players at the tournament.

 

[Wafles]

just stop dodging the accusations. you didn't follow the circuit rules, you really have no defense here plain and simple.

I'm not dodging the accusations, I'm calling the circuit rules stupid. Terrible players don't deserve automatic 1st seeds just because they went to some other tournament and got top 32, they deserve seeds they get in pools.

And don't say "Oh they don't deserve 1st seeds" because I can't ****ing seed a bracket 3 different ways.

Heck I don't have a problem with changing brackets based on whatever skewed judgment you have (You said yourself you're bad right?) but when you don't accommodate/ignore other players then theres a problem. Hunger, Tapion, Lain and Rofa weren't the only players at the tournament.

LOL, skewed judgement. Alright, I'm a fucking retard just because I'm not the absolute best player at Brawl. k e'ry1 brawl skilllz dtermine smartz

 

[eighteenspikes]

well this is what i heard strait from our circuit leaders mouth. also i can assure you that everyone there that showed up with circuit points was easily good enough that they should have been in the brackets.

just stop dodging the accusations. you didn't follow the circuit rules, you really have no defense here plain and simple.

Huh? I was under the impression that seeding only happened at the champs. I'm not positive on how the circuit thing works, I just offered to run a tournament in a large, reliable venue. If there was a problem, well, I guess someone probably should have brought it up to me once during the 18 hours between the doors opening and the bracket starting instead of waiting until they got home to fume about it

 

[gantrain05]

I'm not dodging the accusations, I'm calling the circuit rules stupid. Terrible players don't deserve automatic 1st seeds just because they went to some other tournament and got top 32, they deserve seeds they get in pools.

And don't say "Oh they don't deserve 1st seeds" because I can't ****ing seed a bracket 3 different ways.

ok, so your saying you just rigged the tournament up in your favor because you don't agree with official circuit rules, ok, well in that case i guess everything is ok.

 

[Cook]

ugh. okay heres where it gets personal because that sponsorship was the most prolific behind the scenes part of the entire tournament. getting sponsored by pepsi doesnt mean we get a couple cases of pop. we got nearly $1,000 that covered the room fees, staffing fees, rental fees, and yeah, i guess it did cover the drinks too. did you seriously think that venue would have been covered by $5 a person? this kind of ignorance is exactly why im so disappointed in the brawl community.

NO KOAST had a very nice venue and got by with just a $5 venue fee. My venue for the next event is only costing $135 for THREE nights. It's not quite as nice as yours was, but it's not really too much worse at all. It sounds to me like you guys just paid way too much.

 

[Wafles]

NO KOAST had a very nice venue and got by with just a $5 venue fee. My venue for the next event is only costing $135 for THREE nights. It's not quite as nice as yours was, but it's not really too much worse at all. It sounds to me like you guys just paid way too much.

Are you getting hard by undermining our tournament? It sure as **** looks like it, rofl.

 

[Wafles]

ok, so your saying you just rigged the tournament up in your favor because you don't agree with official circuit rules, ok, well in that case i guess everything is ok.

'Kay so now I rigged a tournament just because I kept the most overall fair idea for the VAST MAJORITY of the people there.

This is getting downright rediculous with the accusations.

 

[gantrain05]

'Kay so now I rigged a tournament just because I kept the most overall fair idea for the VAST MAJORITY of the people there.

This is getting downright rediculous with the accusations.

no, we are just stating facts that you apparently can't see. and your idea of "fair" apparently doesn't fit what most people think, its not like this is just one person coming in here johning about ****, 2 entire states think it was b.s.

 

[eighteenspikes]

ugh someone lock this thread, gantrain pm me if you want to talk about seeding

 

[Blank Mauser]

Huh? I was under the impression that seeding only happened at the champs. I'm not positive on how the circuit thing works, I just offered to run a tournament in a large, reliable venue. If there was a problem, well, I guess someone probably should have brought it up to me once during the 18 hours between the doors opening and the bracket starting instead of waiting until they got home to fume about it

At a circuit event you are supposed to seed by Circuit points first. Those of us with circuit points are automatically supposed to get a better seed. You should then seed the pools by location and then skill level. I plan to be there early if I get my arrangements done tonight. In this case I'll help you seed pools. I know most of the players already that are going as it is.

So maybe it could have easily gone ignored, but nobody telling you to properly seed or that you didn't know the players shouldn't be a john.

 

[Wafles]

no, we are just stating facts that you apparently can't see. and your idea of "fair" apparently doesn't fit what most people think, its not like this is just one person coming in here johning about ****, 2 entire states think it was b.s.

Half a dozen people *****ing after the tournament is over instead of mentioning anything to me or spikes before we started the singles bracket? Circuit seeding was not brought up ONCE to me or spikes over the course of the weekend, and all of a sudden it matters because 2 people with 1 circuit point or whatever didn't make it out of pools?

This is ****ing laughable. You are a joke.

 

[Cook]

Are you getting hard by undermining our tournament? It sure as **** looks like it, rofl.

I think you're being a little defensive. I'm just saying that it is possible to get a good venue at $5 a person, so while it is cool that you guys got sponsored, there are more important things.

 

[Wafles]

I think you're being a little defensive. I'm just saying that it is possible to get a good venue at $5 a person, so while it is cool that you guys got sponsored, there are more important things.

You came in here insulting all the work we did for the past 4 and a half months. Why shouldn't we be. Spikes is being passive about it, but I'm getting really upset.

 

[Bonehimer]

Both spike and wafles seem to care more about melee than brawl. Which is fine, really its the better game imo. However this may be why they didn't have their full hearts set into it. Judging by their last posts and like affinity said, there is a clear lack of TO experience or at least with circuit events and brawl. This lack of experience is what led to a lot of problems especially on spikes part. Even if you opposed the way the rules of the circuit a good TO would had suck it up and deal with it. Because you know, those are the rules and guidelines people came to and expected to fallow. And spike, yes people did complain but were ignored.

I was not aware the venue cost so much and I appreciate the work that went into getting it but frankly its your fault. I don't live in WI but there must have been a much cheaper place with a decent venue.

 

[Wafles]

Both spike and wafles seem to care more about brawl then melee. Which is fine, really its the better game imo. However this may be why they didn't have their full hearts set into it. Judging by their last posts and like affinity said, there is a clear lack of TO experience or at least with circuit events and brawl. This lack of experience is what led to a lot of problems especially on spikes part. Even if you opposed the way the rules of the circuit a good TO would had suck it up and deal with it. Because you know, those are the rules and guidelines people came to and expected to fallow. And spike, yes people did complain but were ignored.

I was not aware the venue cost so much and I appreciate the work that went into getting it but frankly its your fault. I don't live in WI but there must have been a much cheaper place with a decently better venue.

You're a ****ing prick. Spikes hates brawl, and only plays melee. I care about brawl more than melee right now.

Spikes is the most experienced TO in all of WI. He has hosted events for the past several years, and all of which were bigger than the last two brawl tournaments he's run. Consider me as spikes apprentice. I'm helping him run tournaments, but he's teaching me how to do it well all of the way.

Some bull**** circuit rule was ignored, no one complained to either me or spikes about the rule, so we didn't fix it. Tough cookies, people don't deserve better seeds just because they got top 32 at some other small tournament. Especially if they can't perform to match it.

 

[eighteenspikes]

god**** you guys have to be just trolling now, and this thread is just getting pathetic. how sad that this tournament is going to be infamously remembered as the one that unknowingly let a bunch of timid, passive aggressive oos'ers play each other and didnt give a free ride to people who lost more than half their pool sets.