Falco VS Version 4.0

[Zekk]

So in version 4.0 what do you guys wanna see If theres another thread like this lemme know

I know that people want thunder bird or a longer up-B in general but what else could have some visual changes personally I wanna see the phantomism be red for Falco

If anybody takes all the recommendations and made a mod that would be great

 

[CeLL]

I'd rather have phantasm stay blue, but have Fox's Illusion and Shine be red to match his lasers.

It would be cool if Falco's dair looked more exciting. It's very anticlimactic. Same move, just add some sort of visual effect.

Longer up-B isn't too important to me. Falco has arguably the best on-stage ability. If you get knocked off the stage, it's your fault.

It would be nice if he had a shortened version of his superior Brawl Phantasm though, so it could have some on-stage use instead of just as a recovery.

 

[HK_Spadez]

Sorry to necro but i was thinking of starting a 4.0 wishlist thread and then i saw this.

I think falco feels really awkward in PM. theres a reason why fox is still highly played but in the tournament records falco isnt even in the top 10 most played anymore.

I think the main reason being is that he's a ****ing giant in this game. since his character model is so much bigger in comparison to his melee counterpart but he has kept the same movespeed/etc.this makes him feels slugish/slower

theres a ton of other little things i'd wish were changed like his jab for example. but pleaseeee give us a smaller sized falco and i'll play him more often in PM.

 

[Zx2963]

Sorry to necro but i was thinking of starting a 4.0 wishlist thread and then i saw this.

I think falco feels really awkward in PM. theres a reason why fox is still highly played but in the tournament records falco isnt even in the top 10 most played anymore.

I think the main reason being is that he's a ****ing giant in this game. since his character model is so much bigger in comparison to his melee counterpart but he has kept the same movespeed/etc.this makes him feels slugish/slower

theres a ton of other little things i'd wish were changed like his jab for example. but pleaseeee give us a smaller sized falco and i'll play him more often in PM.

I just want his old run back, though I like the new falco, for me I do a lot better with him then the old one. The again, I never mained falco in Melee. I'd like to see SHDL come back though, the laser nerf was worse for Falco then it was for Fox

 

[CeLL]

I just want his old run back, though I like the new falco, for me I do a lot better with him then the old one. The again, I never mained falco in Melee. I'd like to see SHDL come back though, the laser nerf was worse for Falco then it was for Fox

SHDL would mean increasing his SH height, which would drastically change his meta game.

 

[Zx2963]

SHDL would mean increasing his SH height, which would drastically change his meta game.

His sh I'm pretty sure isn't must different then melee, its the landing lag that allowed you to SHDL

 

[CeLL]

His sh I'm pretty sure isn't must different then melee, its the landing lag that allowed you to SHDL

I'm not sure how to respond to this. I'm not sure you quite understand what factors determine this. They are his SH height, his falling speed, and the time between consecutive aerial lasers. Landing lag is not involved.

 

[Zx2963]

I'm not sure how to respond to this. I'm not sure you quite understand what factors determine this. They are his SH height, his falling speed, and the time between consecutive aerial lasers. Landing lag is not involved.

My mistake, the time between laser feels identical, I assumed the landing lag had something to do with it.
EDIT: How so, most people don't even use him in P:M. And his meta has been around for years, it would just make him a more direct port.

 

[CeLL]

My mistake, the time between laser feels identical, I assumed the landing lag had something to do with it.
EDIT: How so, most people don't even use him in P:M. And his meta has been around for years, it would just make him a more direct port.

He is Melee Falco. Nothing about him is taken from Brawl.

He is already a near-identical port, the only changes being the removal of invincibility on the first frame of shine, the weakening of his lasers over distance, and of course his appearance.

It would drastically affect his meta game (which is from Melee) because SH dair and SH nair are his meta game. They, combo, kill, and are fast and safe on shield. Increasing his SH height would make them much, much slower, and legitimately punishable. Watch PPMD in Melee and pay attention to how much he uses them.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

He is Melee Falco. Nothing about him is taken from Brawl.

Jab

 

[CeLL]

Jab

It's his Melee jab's hitbox with the Brawl animation stuck over it. Cosmetic difference.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Then, I hope they adjusted the hurtbox for the move as well otherwise it still could make a minute difference in some cases. However, I do not believe hurtbox allows for customization for each move.

 

[CeLL]

Then, I hope they adjusted the hurtbox for the move as well otherwise it still could make a minute difference in some cases. However, I do not believe hurtbox allows for customization for each move.

I'm not sure what you mean. Like his wings' hurtboxes would extend beyond the jab hitbox, because his Brawl jab had so much more range? The animation's actually slightly different in PM than Brawl; he doesn't lurch forward in PM like he does in Brawl. He stays in place when he jabs. Also his wings stretch out in Brawl, but they stay for the most part the same length in PM. That might be to make it so that doesn't happen.

 

[Zx2963]

He is Melee Falco. Nothing about him is taken from Brawl

Boot Smashing? Gatling Combo? That statement is incorrect. I've heard a lot of people complain his head is huge, not proportionate to Melee. I've watched q lot of Falco players, and lasers were debufred so much in P:M. I understand they want to reduce laser camping, but Falco's lasers sjouodnt only do 1% at the same range as fox. What's the point of lasering other then zoning or reducing recovery height if you can barely tack on damage? Also safe on shield? No they aren't at all! I always get punished by decent players of SHFFL'd aerials with a grab before shine. Falco is not as aggressive as melee, and hence people barely touch him. I would even go as far as to say he isn't #2 because of the nerfs.

 

[CeLL]

Boot Smashing? Gatling Combo? That statement is incorrect. I've heard a lot of people complain his head is huge, not proportionate to Melee. I've watched q lot of Falco players, and lasers were debufred so much in P:M. I understand they want to reduce laser camping, but Falco's lasers sjouodnt only do 1% at the same range as fox. What's the point of lasering other then zoning or reducing recovery height if you can barely tack on damage? Also safe on shield? No they aren't at all! I always get punished by decent players of SHFFL'd aerials with a grab before shine. Falco is not as aggressive as melee, and hence people barely touch him. I would even go as far as to say he isn't #2 because of the nerfs.

DACUS/gatling combo are not used in competitive Falco play in PM. His model is bigger, but that's cosmetic. The lasers were nerfed no more than any other projectiles in the game, and their purpose is to disrupt opponents' approaches, not to deal damage. If you are getting shield grabbed when you dair shine on someone's shield, you timing is bad, you need to practice. It is absolutely safe on shield. If your timing is good and they try to grab, they will get shined, and you can waveshine and seamlessly convert your approach into a combo.

I have no idea what you mean by boot smashing, and I main Falco in Brawl.

 

[Fools Requiem]

The deflector move used in Brawl needs to be returned to Falco. I don't like they way they pretty ported over the Melee version which was a 100% clone of Fox.

 

[Zekk]

The deflector move used in Brawl needs to be returned to Falco. I don't like they way they pretty ported over the Melee version which was a 100% clone of Fox.

I hope this is a joke are you serious?

 

[Fools Requiem]

Yes, I am serious. I prefer Falco kicking out his deflector. Made it more viable for attacking thanks the increase range.

 

[Zekk]

Yes, I am serious. I prefer Falco kicking out his deflector. Made it more viable for attacking thanks the increase range.

Dude You realize that most of falcos fast combos require melee shine this would be a horrible nerf

 

[Chesstiger2612]

DACUS/gatling combo are not used in competitive Falco play in PM. His model is bigger, but that's cosmetic. The lasers were nerfed no more than any other projectiles in the game, and their purpose is to disrupt opponents' approaches, not to deal damage. If you are getting shield grabbed when you dair shine on someone's shield, you timing is bad, you need to practice. It is absolutely safe on shield. If your timing is good and they try to grab, they will get shined, and you can waveshine and seamlessly convert your approach into a combo.

I have no idea what you mean by boot smashing, and I main Falco in Brawl.

DACUS and gatling combo are only not used because most Falco players paly Melee and not PM. Also his RAR is really good.

I'd agree with some cosmetic changes, if it is possible it would be nice to add Brawls nair as 6th aerial (like Wario got a 5th throw with holding Z f-throw and it is a charged f-throw) with some button combination but it is not needed at all, especially since Falco is top tier already.

 

[Zx2963]

Yes, I am serious. I prefer Falco kicking out his deflector. Made it more viable for attacking thanks the increase range.

Stick to playing Brawl then, P:M will never do this

 

[-Dubs]

I want to have 's up-air.

 

[Zx2963]

I want to have 's up-air.

We all can dream...

 

[Phan7om]

All Falco needs is a slightly better recovery imo.

 

[CeLL]

DACUS and gatling combo are only not used because most Falco players paly Melee and not PM. Also his RAR is really good.

I'd agree with some cosmetic changes, if it is possible it would be nice to add Brawls nair as 6th aerial (like Wario got a 5th throw with holding Z f-throw and it is a charged f-throw) with some button combination but it is not needed at all, especially since Falco is top tier already.

I main Falco in Brawl and Melee (I played Melee first, but I learned competitive Brawl before competitive Melee). I've yet to come across a situation where a gatling combo or DACUS is superior to a simple dash attack in PM.

 

[Zekk]

I main Falco in Brawl and Melee (I played Melee first, but I learned competitive Brawl before competitive Melee). I've yet to come across a situation where a gatling combo or DACUS is superior to a simple dash attack in PM.

Guys this thread is for what they should add not brawl so stop focus on the thread

 

[Fools Requiem]

Dude You realize that most of falcos fast combos require melee shine this would be a horrible nerf

Functionality > Combo ability

 

[Zekk]

Functionality > Combo ability

No dude stick to brawl not going to happen in project M

 

[Zx2963]

I main Falco in Brawl and Melee (I played Melee first, but I learned competitive Brawl before competitive Melee). I've yet to come across a situation where a gatling combo or DACUS is superior to a simple dash attack in PM.

Their are many, maybe you just need to explore the possibilities

 

[Chesstiger2612]

F-throw -> DACUS; Full jump laser (hits opponent on low platform) -> DACUS; Laser from double grab distance -> DACUS just to name a few.
Gatling combo is not as useful because dash attack often leads to better followups, but at low %s it is a CC trap.

 

[yohoos]

I want to not be grabbed out of my pillar shield pressure :/. Either that or a better recovery to compensate for it.

 

[CeLL]

Functionality > Combo ability

First of all, this is wrong. Secondly, Melee Shine has greater functionality anyway. It's the best single move in Melee, and that carries over a lot to PM, though it's probably not quite the best anymore.

If we gave Falco his Brawl Shine, he would be faaar worse, so let's not.

I want to not be grabbed out of my pillar shield pressure :/. Either that or a better recovery to compensate for it.

This is a change you need to make, not the PMBR. It is shield safe, just difficult to do properly. Practice.

I'd like to see his dash grab animation changed, I've always thought it looked funny.

 

[Zx2963]

Increase in run speed and different eash animation would be good :3

 

[NegroCaucasian]

perhaps allow falco to walljump after his side B. Seems like a minor change than could help falco on FOD and Yoshis in rare cases

 

[Zx2963]

perhaps allow falco to walljump after his side B. Seems like a minor change than could help falco on FOD and Yoshis in rare cases

That would be to awesome and broken, I like it

 

[trilok]

I would prefer if his recovery was made a little better. I do not like pm falco as it seems every character's neutral game got much better, diminishing his dominance in the neutral game. Unfortunately, falco still retains his frailty made even worse by other character buffs to punish him. I do not think he should have to win the neutral so many times against certain chars, when all they have to do is land a stray hit or backthrow and falco gets into so much stun sometimes, that he can't recover that distance at all even if the opponent doesnt grab the ledge.
tldr; melee falco was a glass cannon, pm he is a decent character with a bad recovery.

 

[Llumys]

Falco's lasers should not have been nerfed. His Melee laser properties are in no way overpowered considering all the other characters' with strong zoning tools.

Fox isn't helpless after his illusion in Smash 4, and I feel as though this would be a welcome change to Falco. It'd be weird not to give the mechanic to Fox, but he doesn't need it.

Also, I think that his d-tilt should be stronger.

 

[CeLL]

Falco's lasers should not have been nerfed. His Melee laser properties are in no way overpowered considering all the other characters' with strong zoning tools.

Fox isn't helpless after his illusion in Smash 4, and I feel as though this would be a welcome change to Falco. It'd be weird not to give the mechanic to Fox, but he doesn't need it.

Also, I think that his d-tilt should be stronger.

His lasers were exceptionally strong in Melee, and still good in PM. I can see your point, though. Now that other characters also have comparably strong zoning, they aren't as good in comparison. However, all projectiles are affected by the damage decay "nerf," and to revert Falco's would make them inconsistent with other projectiles and also possibly too strong. Falco's already really good, he doesn't need a buff.

His dtilt is almost as strong as Fox's usmash, why do you want to buff it?

 

[Zx2963]

His lasers were exceptionally strong in Melee, and still good in PM. I can see your point, though. Now that other characters also have comparably strong zoning, they aren't as good in comparison. However, all projectiles are affected by the damage decay "nerf," and to revert Falco's would make them inconsistent with other projectiles and also possibly too strong. Falco's already really good, he doesn't need a buff.

His dtilt is almost as strong as Fox's usmash, why do you want to buff it?

Not even close to as strong, dtilt kills around 130-120

 

[Dakpo]

With the increase of a difficult Metagame from Melee to PM, Its safe to say that the power creep has rises in just about every character. More importantly, the ability to get gimped has jumped leaps and bounds from what was possible in Melee. I feel like Falco needs a better recovery. A lot of people have recommended his Up B going farther. That would be great, but i don't think it would fix whats really getting him killed. How about me make the Up B activate much faster? No character should ever survive when your sitting in an animation for 20 seconds off stage :/. If his recover game changed, Falco would be a lot better.

I would also like to add that he may have the best onstage game, but that doesnt mean it isnt challenged by the new cast. Some people forget that we are human players, not TAS. Human error will happen. Saying that we should never get hit is pretty ignorant of realistic standards.