Falco vs ICs

#HBC | Mac · Jan 25, 2009

Mogwai · Jan 25, 2009

don't really feel like watching random matches off your youtube account. don't play on FD vs. ICs. don't get grabbed. kill nana more.

#HBC | Mac · Jan 25, 2009

I don't know if you actually thought that advice would help.

Miggz · Jan 26, 2009

Overall I think you are pretty solid. I do have some tips for you though. I think you need to switch up your approaches. In most of the cases you simply did laser 2-3 times and kept approaching with SHFFL aerials. Try mixing it up a bit, you know? Be a little more patient. Allow your foe to come to you a few times, you don't ALWAYS have to make the first move. Another cool trick to do with Falco is the usage empty short hops. This can trick your foe into putting up their shield. Oh and work on your l canceling timing when you hit Ice Climbers. Since there are two of them the timing is a bit different.

The last thing I can say is to just tweak your edge game. There was one part were you knocked one IC of the level. Then you grabbed the edge and simply hung there waiting for the IC to come into bair range. But Nana came over and smacked you, ruining your edge guard. You have to pay attention to both ICs and keep renewing your invulnerable frames by grabbing the edge and letting go, over and over. Next was the way you kept returning onto the stage. Whenever you were holding onto the stage you mostly returned by doing ledge hop dairs. Keep in mind you have multiple ways to returning to the stage...switch it up.

Nice Falco though. ^^

Oskurito · Jan 26, 2009

be a little bit more campy or just campt the hell out of him it shouldn't make you feel bad because he's gonna **** you with his grab combo ****.

Work on comboes and shine>Jc grab, space well to don't get grabbed. Pick up platform levels since IC's are kinda hard to combo on FD (you shouldn't play there anyway)

I know little or nothing about the rest of the match up, but overall you should try to incorporate strategies to don't get grabbed (space well be less agressive and camp more lasers or DD w.e) since IC's strongest point are their grab combos.

Skrah · Jan 26, 2009

Kill Popo's hoe.. (If there are any doubts, Nana)

And also camp them. Try to forward smash Nana to an edge of the stage and then knock Popo off the other side. His recovery alone sucks.

#HBC | Mac · Jan 28, 2009

thanks guys, I will try to mix up my approaches more, and miggz you are right about the edge guarding thing. I should have been aware of nana. I was so pissed when she hit me and messed up my edge guard attempt lol. But yea I choke when i try to edgeguard them.
also oskurito in a few of those matches i experimented with shine > jc grab. I would either do it directly by running up and shining or from an aerial it seemed to work pretty well.

Binx · Jan 28, 2009

In your first match I see way to many smashes, just use more drill shines, they ****, also laser grab more, forward throw, then you can either drillshine or wavedash forward shine/double shine then just bair Nana or something. Just use A LOT more shine, trust me I get wrecked by falco all the time =)

That being said a forward smash here and there is fine, especially for edgeguarding, when popo is way out just drill nana twice, its easy as hell to kill her before the other climber even starts recovering, even a forward smash or something is fine most of the time.

If you space nairs properly we can't shieldgrab those either, when you are being dair chained, smash DI away and possibly away and down/up I think its just away though, and try to buffer a roll to get away (hold L/R and away on the C-Stick)

Kyu Puff · Jan 28, 2009

Binx said:
If you space nairs properly we can't shieldgrab those either, when you are being dair chained, smash DI away and possibly away and down/up I think its just away though, and try to buffer a roll to get away (hold L/R and away on the C-Stick)

We worked on this already -- it's just away. I don't think he's consistent enough at it though; he would usually mess up the first couple times, and by a certain percentage he would switch to survival DI because falco seriously risks being smashed at mid %. Either that or I would u-throw or d-throw -> u-smash.

You can kill Nana by double shining her off the top (and up+Bing her at the top if you want). It works well on PS/YS and on other stages she might have to be at higher percent. Roman does it to me all the time and it's stupid.

I already told you what I think you should focus on.

Miggz · Jan 28, 2009

Macman said:
thanks guys, I will try to mix up my approaches more, and miggz you are right about the edge guarding thing. I should have been aware of nana. I was so pissed when she hit me and messed up my edge guard attempt lol. But yea I choke when i try to edgeguard them.
also oskurito in a few of those matches i experimented with shine > jc grab. I would either do it directly by running up and shining or from an aerial it seemed to work pretty well.

No worries dude, any time. Yeah do keep us posted on your progress. XD

Binx · Jan 28, 2009

He'll learn the smash DI eventually if he wants to win lol, escaping instant death is usually pretty good motivation for me to learn how to do something.

Its just a matter of playing it smart and being patient for openings, Falco can camp very aggressively vs Ice Climbers, and I'm not entirely sure how to go about getting around it.

Kyu Puff · Jan 28, 2009

We also tested out reverse d-air, and I'm 90% sure it's inescapable on Falco but it's hard to do consistently. I did it in these videos a couple of times, I'm not sure how he was DIing though.

#HBC | Mac · Jan 28, 2009

yea I feel like I only have one or two chances to get the DI right, because if he grabs me at bout 30 - 40% he only does it once and then does the whole bilzzard thing and then i am at a high enough percent, that if i accidentally smash DI the fsmash wrong anticipating a grab or just not DI at all I lose a stock. But imma get it down.

and yea reverse dair is **** but it;s really hard to do it if the falco DI's away

Binx · Jan 28, 2009

This is probably how this match up should be played on both ends. Notice how Falco wins more when he shines more, and notice how Chu wins more when Forward shines less. =)

pockyD · Jan 28, 2009

shouldn't be getting grabbed to begin with

#HBC | Mac · Jan 29, 2009

i'm workin on it pocky

Rubyiris · Jan 30, 2009

The most important thing to do is to minimize the amount of times you're going to get grabbed. The worst advice anyone can give you is "don't get hit/grabbed" because it is inevitable that it will happen in the match.

You can minimize your chances of being grabbed several ways.

1. Laser. Alot. Ic has a counter to lasering: Their icicles and wavedashing with their shield up. However if they are trying to stop you through these tactics, they are taking time out of setting up their grabs.

2. Pick a stage with platforms. Any of them will do, though Pokemon Stadium is the least effective.

3. Camp the platforms. Seriously, play gay as hell. It wins games. Retreat and camp with lasers, and as they come closer, take the game to the platforms. As they chase you, go up a level, or drop back to the main stage and continue to camp. Punish their approach with simple BNB combos, but make sure you do alternate which ones you do, though usually it is most effective to punish with Drill -> Shine -> BAIR.

4. Illusion. Random illusions will put space between you and them, as well as separating them for a moment. This is a match up where throwing out Illusion as an attack can be beneficial.

Advice for approaches:

Lasering, obviously. Bait their attacks with an approach, but suddenly retreat, or what I like doing is jumping over popo with a DAIR, only landing on nana. I also occasionally approach with lasers, then Illusion, or jump over them.

Empty full hops, and empty short hops. Frequently they will either shield or send out icicles. This throws them off occasionally. Anything to keep them guessing.

Forward and Down throw after a laser approach. Be careful, if they shield, one of them will punish. It's generally acceptable to allow nana a grab, but if popo grabs, it will lead into a painful followup. This can be risky, but if they don't shield, or if you grab popo, this allows you to separate them, or follow up for a combo. Falcos F throw and D throw hit both climbers, and is occasionally effective. Do it with reserve, however.

jwkirby64 · Feb 2, 2009

oi oi

smash DI and auto DI the d-throw to d-tilt combo
ive heard f-throw works well to keep them off balance

shine shine shine

put that electrical field up telling those guys not to grab u

mess up one approach = mess up the stock

dont approach them if u know they trying to shield grab though
force them to come and meet them with falcos aggressive advantage

#HBC | Mac · Feb 2, 2009

jwkirby64 said:
mess up one approach = mess up the stock

too true, anyways im getting a lil better at the match up, thanks guys.

PB&J · Feb 28, 2009

i will tell u the secret of beating icy's..practice your combos on them because falco can combo them like he is eating breakfast and if u fsmash fsmash right away again it ***** them...dtilt kills..dsmash to keep nana away from u and laser far away from them..the match up is dead even ..watch out for there up air when u dair it will **** u..and the whole time while u are doing this u should be thinking if i get brabed i lose a stock..so make sure when u get one shine they die and that is the best tip i can give u after playing with all the best falcos..and its my fav match up in the game so i know it very well and what i hate what falco does to me ..but recently falcos has been beating me..so just dont mess up..practicing against icy's will keep your tech skill up

Big_R · Feb 28, 2009

if u play iceys just yell at the other person the whole time. i find "EGGM EGGM! FORWARD SMASH TO FORWARD SMASH IT'S THE GREATEST COMBO EVER" and things of that nature to work pretty well.

actually if u play any character u can pry use this advice. the opponent will just want to distance themselves frim u asap and that will mean they are on autopilot trying to gtfoutta there

PB&J · Mar 3, 2009

Big_R said:
if u play iceys just yell at the other person the whole time. i find "EGGM EGGM! FORWARD SMASH TO FORWARD SMASH IT'S THE GREATEST COMBO EVER" and things of that nature to work pretty well.

actually if u play any character u can pry use this advice. the opponent will just want to distance themselves frim u asap and that will mean they are on autopilot trying to gtfoutta there

i was just trying to have fun man..sorry if i was being an idiot..im just not a fan of eggms falco and never will..but ur cool whats good..u going to rom

MattDotZeb · Mar 3, 2009

Against Kyu Puff just stay in the air, pellet him with lasers, stay behind him, and use bair's on his sheild.

When you get the chance you kill his nana immediately and as gay as you can. He wont try to save her usually (by that I mean running off and up-b).

When you grab, use an up or down throw. Mix it up though
Nana may hit you out of the up through however that leaves her open to kill.

And thats how to beat kyu puff in a nutshell.
<3

#HBC | Mac · Mar 3, 2009

I don't know why I never even tried upthrow, since i'm generally good at comboing out of it and is my combo of choice.

anyways i'm doing a bit better at this match up.

Big_R · Mar 3, 2009

PB&J said:
i was just trying to have fun man..sorry if i was being an idiot..im just not a fan of eggms falco and never will..but ur cool whats good..u going to rom

ya it was rough on my own concentration but idk the boat didnt even work for me so who really knows. plus i had just beat cactuar so i won that pool. so its all good

i just saw that u posted so i had to bring back those memories lol

no rom for me

its gonna be too good im sure but i cant get offa work plus im trying to pass school and stuff. i did not know about it in time to make plans. it sucks too cuz a mw car is coming right to cbus and they have an open spot... ahh well maybe next time....or maybe genesis....

and ya eggm was being dumb after fast but dont take it out on me

lol

Watty · Mar 4, 2009

PB&J said:
i was just trying to have fun man..sorry if i was being an idiot..im just not a fan of eggms falco and never will..but ur cool whats good..u going to rom

hey yea im sorry man for being a total ***** as im yelling at u the entire time. u really think that ****s fun are ********? you should be sorry for being an idiot next time u go to a tourney duct tape ur mouth shut so we dont have to hear ur annoy *** yell stupid **** because u think its fun

Miggz · Mar 4, 2009

Yeah everyone has given you solid advice.

So I think you'll be just fine.

#HBC | Mac · Mar 5, 2009

than why did you post?

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