Falco - Chaingrab-Spiking Olimar

[oiMrXio]

I've just started to play Brawl seriously again and have been having a lot of trouble against g-r-e-a-t Falcos. For some reason when the game first came out, I had little trouble with this matchup, even against "good" falcos at the time like massiveguns. However, it seems lately I am finding that Falcos chaingrab is inescapable even upwards of 40-50% on olimar, and I thought I remembered it being a lot earlier.

Also, I could only escape the chaingrab-d-air spike MAYBE 20% of the time, and only if I got off an instant up-B right when he hit me so i just grab the ledge, and half the time the pikmin would glitch out and half of them wouldn't go on the chain (you oli mainers know what i mean), and some pikmin would just fall to their doom and i'd be stuck with a 3-pikmin chain or whatever and i'd die.

Basically what i'm asking is: is falco's chaingrab-spike an insta-kill on olimar? And what % can you get out of it? I was DIing up and away from the falco and smashing the jump button; is this the wrong response to getting grabbed?

Also, saving my jump for then he spikes me off the stage didnt work really well either; the falco would just fall a little under the stage, jump and illusion to the ledge before I could get to it.

Maybe I'm just rusty, but I for the first time felt like a matchup was really bordering on impossible. At least the IC's 0-death grab you can smash buttons to get out of it fast, and it actually takes a lot of skill and many IC's will mess up at least once. Falco's chaingrab-spike is so stupid easy that you can't get lucky by them messing it up, so it's a real concern for me now.

Thoughts?

 

[IcyLight]

if the falco doesn;t perfectly time his chain grabs you can foot stool out of it >_>

 

[BlackWaltzX]

At 20% (two throws) you can DI and footstool out.
If you appear unable to, and get the 50%/dair combo to land on you, if you DI -to- the stage, you can tech the spike from the stage.


Also, camp him. When you hit 20% or higher, you can fight normally. This is to prevent the chain grab.

 

[Cook]

I've just started to play Brawl seriously again and have been having a lot of trouble against g-r-e-a-t Falcos. For some reason when the game first came out, I had little trouble with this matchup, even against "good" falcos at the time like massiveguns. However, it seems lately I am finding that Falcos chaingrab is inescapable even upwards of 40-50% on olimar, and I thought I remembered it being a lot earlier.

Also, I could only escape the chaingrab-d-air spike MAYBE 20% of the time, and only if I got off an instant up-B right when he hit me so i just grab the ledge, and half the time the pikmin would glitch out and half of them wouldn't go on the chain (you oli mainers know what i mean), and some pikmin would just fall to their doom and i'd be stuck with a 3-pikmin chain or whatever and i'd die.

Basically what i'm asking is: is falco's chaingrab-spike an insta-kill on olimar? And what % can you get out of it? I was DIing up and away from the falco and smashing the jump button; is this the wrong response to getting grabbed?

Also, saving my jump for then he spikes me off the stage didnt work really well either; the falco would just fall a little under the stage, jump and illusion to the ledge before I could get to it.

Maybe I'm just rusty, but I for the first time felt like a matchup was really bordering on impossible. At least the IC's 0-death grab you can smash buttons to get out of it fast, and it actually takes a lot of skill and many IC's will mess up at least once. Falco's chaingrab-spike is so stupid easy that you can't get lucky by them messing it up, so it's a real concern for me now.

Thoughts?

Just try to have all your pikmin and when he spikes you mash up-b. I have yet to not get the meteor cancel if I was actually trying for it; in fact, meteor cancelling saves me from all kinds of spikes nowadays, unless I'm actually at a higher percentage.

 

[Awex]

mashing jump right away can screw you over because if you get grabbed out of the double jump you really are screwed.

I usually just mash fair for the first few dthrows and on like the third I try jumping away. I have a set with Nyjin's Falco from chula vista xxiii recorded that should be up sometime soon.

 

[Cook]

To get out of the chainthrow I usually try to DI up and away and n-air, or sometimes f-air. Not sure that that'sa good strategy, but that's what I do.

 

[BlackWaltzX]

Fair is a faster move, yeah?
DI up and away, hit the cstick to them.
At 20% or so, use second jump.

 

[Llumys]

Or, you know, don't get grabbed.

 

[Olimarman]

Or, you know, don't get grabbed.

Thanks captain obvious.

Just DI up and away. When compared to other characters, its not too hard to escape the CG.

 

[oiMrXio]

Thanks captain obvious.

Just DI up and away. When compared to other characters, its not too hard to escape the CG.

That's exactly what I thought until this last weekend. It just seemed like for some reason that wasn't working --AT--ALL-- when I was playing DEHF's falco. Maybe it's just him or I was messing up the timing or something I dunno.

Thanks for the advice though, so basically from 0-20 i'll try DIing to them and footstooling them, and then after that f-airing them. If all else fails and they get me to the edge, i'll DI to the stage and tech it.

This last weekend was just really weird b/c I was friendlying DEHF who's imo the best west coast falco at the moment. I beat him in tourney a few months ago but on Sat. I felt helpless against him, moreso than I ever have against a specific character before.

As far as the don't get grabbed policy, trust me I know that. Like I said, I have no problem vs mediocre-decent falcos, just really good ones who have a LOT of ways to get that grab on you.

Also something else to note, we were talking about the mu and discovered that his illusion (side-B) ***** pretty hard against oli and makes it 1. hard to camp falco and 2. goes through almost everything olimar has (he jumps a little bit sometimes before using it so f-smash etc. doesnt work). It's something, like his chaingrab, that I overlooked before as easily defeatable (upsmash,f-smash etc.); but with good timing it's actually really hard to get past.

 

[BlackWaltzX]

FB is good if used unpredictably against Oli, but.. IDK.
It's not good enough.

 

[asob4]

i feel your pain D:
i couldn't get out of creepy's for some reason

i can never camp falco, it's stupid imo. falco is so good at it and lazers are f#*!ing annoying
sorry DEHF got oli practice from me and rich D:

i played a mediocre falco in pools and i got out of his CG after just one by DIing up and away and jumping
never tried attacking :/

go to more tourney's, not just SCSA -_-

 

[DanGR]

If you're desperate and still have trouble with the CG after taking these tips into consideration, you can actually try to get some damage on you. Camp and camp and throw pikmin at him even if he reflects them back. Don't whistle them off, but instead wait until you've got around 16-19%. No chaingrabs from there on. This is what some Link players do. They'll hurt themselves with bombs just so they don't get CGed spiked.

Also, here's a short video displaying teching the spike: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFgf2EKYB4g

 

[BlackWaltzX]

If you're desperate and still have trouble with the CG after taking these tips into consideration, you can actually try to get some damage on you. Camp and camp and throw pikmin at him even if he reflects them back. Don't whistle them off, but instead wait until you've got around 16-19%. No chaingrabs from there on. This is what some Link players do. They'll hurt themselves with bombs just so they don't get CGed spiked.

Also, here's a short video displaying teching the spike: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFgf2EKYB4g

Yeah. Like I said, it's good.

 

[asob4]

good plan

gotta practice teching it T.T

 

[Llumys]

There's actually a few things you can do after the tech, too.

1. tech
2. tether
3. tether cancel
4. fair
5. tether
6. edge attack

 

[Zori]

There's actually a few things you can do after the tech, too.

1. tech
2. tether
3. tether cancel
4. fair
5. tether
6. edge attack

no.


anyways, falco can only CG olimar 3 times, though id share that

 

[asob4]

you would think

then you play creepy, sk92, or DEHF and they get you more times and you get sad D:

 

[Fino]

Maybe I'm just rusty, but I for the first time felt like a matchup was really bordering on impossible. At least the IC's 0-death grab you can smash buttons to get out of it fast, and it actually takes a lot of skill and many IC's will mess up at least once. Falco's chaingrab-spike is so stupid easy that you can't get lucky by them messing it up, so it's a real concern for me now.

Lol. You have been out of the brawl scene for awhile. I use to secondary IC's and never learned to CG, and I picked them back up awhile ago... all the known chain grabs took maybe a week, week and a half, to learn... by learn I mean 0-death all 3 stocks.
Honestly... it's my easy way out of the Falco match up... I don't like them either. I only used to play them to counter falco, but they're slowly becoming my second main


~Fino

 

[Cook]

Is there any reason why meteor cancelling doesn't work? It's always worked for me...

 

[Llumys]

no.

Haha, it sounds ridiculous, but I've already pulled it off... It's quite situational, but I'm sure you know that people fall for Olimar's recovery tricks, considering most people underestimate it.

 

[asob4]

Is there any reason why meteor cancelling doesn't work? It's always worked for me...

because there's no meteor spikes to meteor cancel >.>

 

[RichBrown]

Like a few others have been saying, I usually will just let Falco reflect pikmin back at me. And if the Falco player catches on, I'll just do an empty SH, bait the reflector, and punish from there. If you do get caught in a spike, double stick (mash the control and C-stick towards the stage) and try to tech it. And I play Larry frequently so yeah sorry about that >_<

Good to see you back in the tournament scene, lets team and do double Oli sometime ya? :D

 

[Cook]

because there's no meteor spikes to meteor cancel >.>

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=166325

Just mash up-b after you get spiked; it works.

 

[Llumys]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=166325

Just mash up-b after you get spiked; it works.

Not all the time.

 

[Cook]

Not all the time.

The only time it wouldn't work is if you didn't have enough pikmin. Having too much damage to meteor cancel it isn't an issue because if you have that much damage he can't d-throw>spike you anyway.

 

[RichBrown]

Sometimes spamming upB won't work, I think that if Falco hits Olimar with the perfect part of the spike, there is more hitstun. Blah play Larry sometime.

 

[Llumys]

Sometimes spamming upB won't work, I think that if Falco hits Olimar with the perfect part of the spike, there is more hitstun. Blah play Larry sometime.

Also, if it's doubles the Falco's partner may be hogging.

 

[BlackWaltzX]

you would think

then you play creepy, sk92, or DEHF and they get you more times and you get sad D:

Quit Brawl?

 

[Aztec Avenger]

This is why I never approach a Falco....Ever, unless I am past 20%. I just get hit with the lasers on purpose so I can't get CGed, cause my damage would be up already.

 

[asob4]

Quit Brawl?

so cal smash scene is too good to quit