EXTENNNDUURRRRRR (samus gen. disc.)

[Litt]

I stopped reading after this. You understand that people have different views than you right? Stop superimposing your views onto everyone. Put away those claws you big dumb bear.

Tournaments... purpose is to come out with the intended winner and distribute the prize pool. Way to achieve that goal is by advancing to the finals. Way to do that is by taking 4 stocks before your opponent does or having more stocks before the end of 8 minutes than your opponent. These are all facts, and not views. As a result there are no superordinate goals to these at tournaments if you enter with the purpose of winning or improving. You can certainly go with the goal of improving but that does not come at the cost of winning games, and those superordinate goals still hold true. Should you go with the goal of having fun, there lies the distinction between competitive and casual players. I know the low level player mindset of I know I am not going to win because we were all there at one point, but just because other people want to win and take the game seriously does not mean the other goals (which you call my view point) are being superimposed, they are just reality.

Also seriously stop with the name calling of... buppy... and dumb bear... we are not buds, they are nonsense and just fueling the disdain I feel towards you. I see one more, you are getting placed on the ignore list for good.

 

[Mervis]

Claws go in the paws you dumb bear. Don't be such a grumpy grizzly!

 

[Corigames]

Goomy, I want to challenge you to a swag video contest using only tournament footage.

 

[Litt]

Claws go in the paws you dumb bear. Don't be such a grumpy grizzly!

You really are as ignorant and dumb online as you are bad at smash, enjoy my ignore list forever MervisMcGervis

 

[Mervis]

It's about time.

Corigames & GoomySmash I want to watch this contest unfold. You guys should have like a set time limit like 6 months or something. Ready go?

 

[GoomySmash]

"At the end of the day you are a video game." .... Wut? I know you are strange... but this is a new level of idiocy even for you... just proof read or think of what you want to say throughly before rambling off trying to make a point. And I say trying to because you are quite unsuccessful when you come off looking inept.

"The end goal is to indeed win, but there are certain win conditions people strive to meet."... The goal of playing the game is to take 4 stock and/or live 8 minutes with more stock than your opponent... those are your first and primary goals and if you do not seek to achieve them... you are not playing the game, you are just ****ing around.

Swagging on people is a secondary goal... which people only respect... if you are ahead in stocks or it at least makes you even in stocks through something unexpected.

When you are up in stocks you can be less focused on the defensive and more focused on varied offensive tactics to catch your opponent off guard... should you "get styled on" no harm because you are still winning and if they fail they are just putting themselves further down the drain. Success may not just be found in winning, but styling is only respected when you are winning or at the very least tied.

The beautiful thing about Melee is you can play it however you want to. There's not really any set rules on how to view the game. I view Melee like a canvas where I can be creative and try out new things and push the limits of what is possible or practical. Yes, I like winning and being competitive, but at the end of the day, Melee is a fun hobby for me, and it doesn't make that much of a difference whether I go 2-2 in pools or 3-2, or even if I beat a "top player" in my region. What does matter to me is having fun and exploring new options and improving.

 

[GoomySmash]

Goomy, I want to challenge you to a swag video contest using only tournament footage.

You're on :D

We need an impartial judge (panel of judges???) to rate the swag levels though.
Rules:
-Tournament footage only
-We will both make a swag compilation video of our best combos/moments
-You get extra points if you actually got a kill/really good advantage off of the swag/jank, but you can still get points if it was ridiculously swag even if it put you at a disadvantage (although you'll get less points than normal)

Judge(s) vote on the winner

Winner gets title of swaggiest Samus that's not Ihavespaceballs

Now, who should be the judges? My vote is for Ihavespaceballs, Mervis and 343 to be judges.

 

[Litt]

The beautiful thing about Melee is you can play it however you want to. There's not really any set rules on how to view the game. I view Melee like a canvas where I can be creative and try out new things and push the limits of what is possible or practical. Yes, I like winning and being competitive, but at the end of the day, Melee is a fun hobby for me, and it doesn't make that much of a difference whether I go 2-2 in pools or 3-2, or even if I beat a "top player" in my region. What does matter to me is having fun and exploring new options and improving.

There are only a set number of options and situations in which you can choose, those are all based on spacing of both your own and your opponents character. Certainly you can make choices that are unconventional, but you must learn how to apply them if they are applicable and whether the risk is worth the attempt/effort. Melee is a hobby for everyone that plays it competitively, and it does make a difference what you go at the end of a day because it shows your worth/aptitude as a player. One days you will find you have explored all the options (much less than you believe to be out there), and then maybe you will try to add your intellgience into play where by you choose which options are suitable and optimal for the choices/players at hand. When you get to a level where you feel you can competently play, do not want to "improve" any more or don't know how to improve from your achieved status quo... all is left is having fun and winning, which then you need to make the choice, am I here to win or am I here to **** around. Competitive vs Casual player.

My bet is that you will finally say ok I want to win now that I have put all this effort into mastering this character, and you will be like oh crap yeah, Litt was right... sure took me a while to get to that point and boy mervis was p inept.

 

[Litt]

You're on :D

We need an impartial judge (panel of judges???) to rate the swag levels though.
Rules:
-Tournament footage only
-We will both make a swag compilation video of our best combos/moments
-You get extra points if you actually got a kill/really good advantage off of the swag/jank, but you can still get points if it was ridiculously swag even if it put you at a disadvantage (although you'll get less points than normal)

Judge(s) vote on the winner

Winner gets title of swaggiest Samus that's not Ihavespaceballs

Now, who should be the judges? My vote is for Ihavespaceballs, Mervis and 343 to be judges.

Need a system to calculate the skill level of the opponent as well as an average scoring from the judges regarding how swag. Lv of opponents (low level x1.25, mid x2, high x3, god tier x5) + (Avg of 3 judges of how swag 1-10)

 

[Mervis]

Now, who should be the judges? My vote is for Ihavespaceballs, Mervis and 343 to be judges.

How the hell do we get spaceballs to be a panelist?

 

[343]

i don't think i'm qualified to be a panelist

ask @ycz12 :^)

 

[GoomySmash]

How the hell do we get spaceballs to be a panelist?

@ihavespaceblondes will you help judge for a contest between me and Corigames to determine the second most stylish/swaggy Samus?

 

[Mervis]

i don't think i'm qualified to be a panelist

ask @ycz12 :^)

wtf I'm not qualified either but I like swaggy samus.

you are more than qualified friendo

 

[Spazzy]

Grappling below sweetspot, and walljumping away while rising up and avoiding a downsmash on ledge or something. This usually allows me to not get hit, but I get put in a bad position. Is it worth doing more or should I just not try to make it muscle memory?

 

[bubbaking]

This is a really good maneuver when you grapple (even if it's a sweetspot) and the opponent (especially if it's a spacee or Marth) grabs the edge before you can reel in. The walljump gives you 14 frames of invincibility to avoid crap, and you can immediately act out of it. However, as you pointed out, it leaves you in somewhat of a bad position, largely because Samus has the best walljump, which is kind of ironic. To avoid this, you should immediately pick an option to do during the first few frames of the walljump in order to kill your momentum and allow you to recover regularly. The two most commonly used options are upB and bomb. If your opponent grabs the ledge but overstays his invincibility (often because he used it to avoid being hit by your tether in the first place), you can immediately walljump upB him. This often leads to spacees being gimped. Your WJ invincibility overlaps with your upB invincibility, so you should be able to beat anything he does from the ledge, and if he rolls on instead, then you can just FF to the ledge. If instead, your opponent is standing close to the ledge and you noticed that you didn't get the grapple sweetspot, then walljump bomb can keep you safe while giving you more time to recover. Another option you could consider is missile.

 

[343]

walljump -> bomb and upb are common and pretty decent, as bubbaking said; walljump backair, walljump missile, walljump airdodge can be useful in different situations as well. Ideally, you should also keep your doublejump before walljumping, which gives you even more options! (watch @ycz12 videos, since he really loves his grapple walljumps; maybe he can recommend some good ones)

 

[Wald0]

Is there a discord group that isnt dead or is this the main place for ssbm Samus players to gather?

 

[Litt]

Is there a discord group that isnt dead or is this the main place for ssbm Samus players to gather?

This is activish https://discord.gg/0sLz2D8ZHcZITPu9

 

[Thor]

Considering picking up Samus for the Fox MU and maybe maybe Sheik [I know the second one initially sounds absurd cuz that MU is hard, but I'm still confident Sheik Samus is a lot easier than Sheik Link, although unfortunately Sheiks in my scene are rare so I won't get much practice in the MU regardless unless some show up]. I'm not planning on dropping Link entirely because I get the feeling he does better vs Puff than Samus does, and only marginally worse vs Peach and Marth [or maybe better vs Marth on some stages like FD, I dunno]. I actually don't struggle with Falco or Falcon all that much as Link, at least it feels that way, but I figure Samus will do better in those MUs too, if only slightly, should I want a different angle on the MU.

There doesn't seem to be a Q&A thread on the Samus boards like on the Link boards, so can I ask away in here, or is there something else I should do when I have a question? I assume I shouldn't just make new threads but I'm not sure if there's somewhere better to ask.

And before anyone asks, yes, I'm aware they have massively different WD timings and aren't that similar unlike some make out, but I think Samus will still kinda suit me (pun not intended but then noted and left in). I also don't wavedash much at all as Link [for a variety of reasons, none of them very good], and I think Samus being very WD-dependent [from what I can tell] will probably help me improve as a player if I try to play Samus seriously.

 

[343]

Well, this is the general discussion, so if you have a question that the search feature doesn't help you answer, ask here I guess

I originally mained Link as a casual and eventually switched to Samus because I like projectiles

 

[Corigames]

1. https://www.reddit.com/r/SSBM/comments/4cftg0/new_extender_tech_with_applesmaushcorigames_xpost/
New extender tech. Hadn't been posted here yet, so I thought I drop this here in case any of you missed other postings.

2. Thor
It's hard to discuss every part of the Fox MU in total, but here's some quick tips until you drop us some questions:

*Upthrow combos into Bair or Nair from 0% until, like, death
*WD back Dsmash > life
*WD back Dtilt > life also
*UpB out of shield all day son
*Your recovery is ridic now, so, like, only ever die off the top.
*Try not to die off the top either though.
*duh
*You shouldn't ever be hit by Fox Uthrow Uair. If you did, you messed up.
*If you roll as Samus you die
*CC doesn't work against Shine
*If you get shined, you better be ready for an up smash or more shines
*You can destroy his recovery: put a missile to cover the ledge and either make him FF and recover from below or recover high. Then eliminate options form there. Simple.

 

[Mervis]

1. https://www.reddit.com/r/SSBM/comments/4cftg0/new_extender_tech_with_applesmaushcorigames_xpost/
New extender tech. Hadn't been posted here yet, so I thought I drop this here in case any of you missed other postings.

2. Thor
It's hard to discuss every part of the Fox MU in total, but here's some quick tips until you drop us some questions:

*Upthrow combos into Bair or Nair from 0% until, like, death
*WD back Dsmash > life
*WD back Dtilt > life also
*UpB out of shield all day son
*Your recovery is ridic now, so, like, only ever die off the top.
*Try not to die off the top either though.
*duh
*You shouldn't ever be hit by Fox Uthrow Uair. If you did, you messed up.
*If you roll as Samus you die
*CC doesn't work against Shine
*If you get shined, you better be ready for an up smash or more shines
*You can destroy his recovery: put a missile to cover the ledge and either make him FF and recover from below or recover high. Then eliminate options form there. Simple.

GoomySmash

 

[Thor]

1. https://www.reddit.com/r/SSBM/comments/4cftg0/new_extender_tech_with_applesmaushcorigames_xpost/
New extender tech. Hadn't been posted here yet, so I thought I drop this here in case any of you missed other postings.

2. Thor
It's hard to discuss every part of the Fox MU in total, but here's some quick tips until you drop us some questions:

*Upthrow combos into Bair or Nair from 0% until, like, death
*WD back Dsmash > life
*WD back Dtilt > life also
*UpB out of shield all day son
*Your recovery is ridic now, so, like, only ever die off the top.
*Try not to die off the top either though.
*duh
*You shouldn't ever be hit by Fox Uthrow Uair. If you did, you messed up.
*If you roll as Samus you die
*CC doesn't work against Shine
*If you get shined, you better be ready for an up smash or more shines
*You can destroy his recovery: put a missile to cover the ledge and either make him FF and recover from below or recover high. Then eliminate options form there. Simple.

I understand Fox uthrow uair doesn't combo on Samus the way it does vs most of the cast, but I'd like to break down some stuff to make sure I understand what's going on. Feel free to tell me where I'm wrong or if I am missing something.

Assume Samus gets grabbed and uthrown. Here is my understanding of what happens.

Spoiler: Analysis?

- Fox can jump after you or stay grounded. We'll look at our options and then consider what he does.
- You jump. This always avoids the uair at mid-high percents onward (or any followup), but you now have to land vs Fox without a jump. I would guess landing vs Fox is annoying/difficult. This option is better the more aggressive Fox is at coming after you, because then he has to land too, making it easier for you to land.
- You do immediate aerial [nair, dair to call out a delayed uair maybe?] to fight off a uair. He may be able to space around this vertically but that's extremely hard and you can sometimes fastfall so this should nearly always avoid uair unless one is an idiot and do this at like 200% where he can't uair you anyway (and then uairs you out of ending lag). More problematic is him waiting on landing to try to powershield usmash or regrab and reset the situation.
- You do a bomb, and he tries to call this out with uair. Doing a bomb gives you all kinds of options for getting down [bomb jump or just land with it having a hitbox or fastfall or whatever], but if he jumps straight up for the uair, you have to SDI or you'll get hit.
- You do nothing [I'll say wiggle out]. Seems useful to see if they go for uthrow uair at early percents (some people still don't know that doesn't work), but you still have to land [with your jump still unlike immediate jump away].

So from my understanding, uthrow is a great positional tool, and Fox does have a fast uair, but if you pick jump or aerial, you won't get uair'd immediately. Bomb seems best but loses to Fox pretending uthrow uair combos. Wiggle out is good to save jump and if you think they're trying to react to bomb [and you can always try to SDI if you they call you out].

Then the correct response to a uthrow is to try to react to what they do [I'm assuming we can react to his jumping up with a jump or nair of our own], and land onstage or reset to ledge [I'm gonna assume reset to ledge is a good idea because we have tether and screw attack is invincible for a few frames to avoid shine spikes as long as we're quick].

That's my understanding. Should Samus DI uthrow offstage [when applicable] and turn it into a recovery situation, or is that stage-dependent [maybe on FD or PS but not with a top platform in play] or what? Should Samus never DI uthrow unless it's at KO percents [lol] or should I DI it the way most other characters want to do so?

Uthrow bair sounds much stronger than uthrow nair, but I assume they must DI behind for the bair.. or could we dash forward pivot bair to cover DI in front [her DD seems too short for that]? I've also seen Plup do uthrow charge shot. I assume that combos, it's just that you need a charge shot to make that work. One other thing I have seen when Fox DIs to a platform is uthrow -> landing fair -> fsmash or dsmash where the fair lands a hit or two... is that ever guaranteed or is it a DI mixup or what?

Thanks for all the advice. That extender video was really cool, although I'm gonna not worry about extender much until I can consistently do the more practical stuff like actually play Samus decently and missile cancels and stuff. I do have to work on my Samus edgeguards, so I'll try to put into practice what you said and go from there.

 

[ThugNa$ty]

Grappling below sweetspot, and walljumping away while rising up and avoiding a downsmash on ledge or something. This usually allows me to not get hit, but I get put in a bad position. Is it worth doing more or should I just not try to make it muscle memory?

personally, I think calling in an airstrike is more effective

 

[mistgun.fgc]

Anyone have good throw follow-ups on the top tiers? For damage I FAir, for BnB I NAir, for kills I BAir. At higher percents, I FSmash and FTilt heavies Against no DI I'm pretty solid. But in tournament I struggle to get follow ups successfully.

Any tips?

 

[Litt]

Anyone have good throw follow-ups on the top tiers? For damage I FAir, for BnB I NAir, for kills I BAir. At higher percents, I FSmash and FTilt heavies Against no DI I'm pretty solid. But in tournament I struggle to get follow ups successfully.

Any tips?

Certainly first indicate which type of throw you are using so others can understand what you are speaking about. If you are not clear people will ignore or be unable to assist.

 

[ph00tbag]

Anyone have good throw follow-ups on the top tiers? For damage I FAir, for BnB I NAir, for kills I BAir. At higher percents, I FSmash and FTilt heavies Against no DI I'm pretty solid. But in tournament I struggle to get follow ups successfully.

Any tips?

Nair is a solid, low-execution follow-up to uthrow, obviously. Fair is... alright, but finnicky. I've done some wicked stuff off uthrow -> fair, and I've also had my opponent SDI out and dust me off for trying it. The optimal follow-up these days is using dash initiations and pivots to position Samus to sweetspot bair regardless of DI. Duck and HugS are both doing this a lot, and I think, as far as Samus's gameplan goes, it tends to be the best bet, as it provides more timing variation for a coverage missile than nair.

As for dthrow, fsmash is good for most DI at most percents, and ftilt, being quicker, can catch some DIs and percents fsmash can't. Someone else who pays more attention to percents can probably give you more detail on this. At higher percents, nair can be an effective follow-up as well, especially for inward DI.

I know that some time back, HugS offered a neat trap on Sheik where you dthrow her at a given percent range, wd back, then fire the charge shot, and it tends to cover every option if you time it all right. I don't remember the particulars, but traps like this can be something to look out for, too.

 

[mistgun.fgc]

Nair is a solid, low-execution follow-up to uthrow, obviously. Fair is... alright, but finnicky. I've done some wicked stuff off uthrow -> fair, and I've also had my opponent SDI out and dust me off for trying it. The optimal follow-up these days is using dash initiations and pivots to position Samus to sweetspot bair regardless of DI. Duck and HugS are both doing this a lot, and I think, as far as Samus's gameplan goes, it tends to be the best bet, as it provides more timing variation for a coverage missile than nair.

As for dthrow, fsmash is good for most DI at most percents, and ftilt, being quicker, can catch some DIs and percents fsmash can't. Someone else who pays more attention to percents can probably give you more detail on this. At higher percents, nair can be an effective follow-up as well, especially for inward DI.

I know that some time back, HugS offered a neat trap on Sheik where you dthrow her at a given percent range, wd back, then fire the charge shot, and it tends to cover every option if you time it all right. I don't remember the particulars, but traps like this can be something to look out for, too.

Hey, thanks man! I appreciate how detailed you got, even though I didn't ask the question correctly, apparently.

For U Throw specifically, yeah I mostly g for SS BAir but when I call them out with a grab at low % I always FAir. If your arial drift is on-point you can chase them as they DI. My opponents are learning better SDI though, so I agree, BAir is probably "best" majority of the time off that throw.

For D Throw I think I'll work on that trap and how to do FTilt followups. I'm hoping to average 22%+ off each grab I get. My goal is high, but I think I can make it. Thanks for the sage advice ph00ty with a b00ty.

 

[343]

vs fastfallers:
at low % uthrow dair is usually best: it leads to a techchase on platforms, and hopefully on FD too if you sh dair; don't think they can meteor cancel at 0% if you shorthop? i hope? EDIT: they can definitely meteor cancel. details forthcoming

even better, if there are platforms, you can uthrow -> jump above the platform -> dair techchase -> continue to follow up, though this is hard if they go to a top platform on BF/DL; they can do things like miss tech -> reactively getup attack you when you get close, so the dair becomes pretty hard to do.

most other multi-hit followups off upthrow on fastfallers, like upthrow -> weak nair -> nair or upthrow -> fair -> whatever are DI traps at best (if they DI the uthrow away and the next move away, you probably can't follow up more.) uthrow bair / turnaround bair are definitely the best kill options from grab, though dthrow fsmash / ftilt starts working depending on DI (i think in/no di will work, but away di fsmash might not? idk) at high enough %. I should lab it out I guess...

there's also dthrow reaction techchase stuff which Duck has been talking about, but no one can do it yet. be the first

vs sheik, dthrow fsmash on in di / dash attack on away di; at high %, dthrow ftilt vs di away (sends at a lower angle than dash attack) and maybe dthrow nair if they di behind.

vs marth, the same things work until mid %, but if they start DIing up and away on the dthrow I haven't been able to guaranteed followups (maybe I just suck though)

vs puff, dthrow nair usually works (may be able to connect a bair if you're tricky?)

vs peach, i don't think there are really true combos, but you can try to read their doublejump / float out of hitstun with a move. be careful to space your move at low % because she'll just nair you right back; nair is probably not good at low %. vs peach and other big floaties (samus, for example), if they get hit by dthrow sh (drift forward) fair and DI away, they'll get hit by basically all of the fair, which is nice.

vs ics, idk, dthrow nair or something. don't let the other climber punish your landing.

vs mario brothers i'm usually scared i'll get naired out if they DI up on dthrow so I go for upair; nair might work at lower %s?

 

[ph00tbag]

vs fastfallers:
at low % uthrow dair is usually best: it leads to a techchase on platforms, and hopefully on FD too if you sh dair; don't think they can meteor cancel at 0% if you shorthop? i hope? EDIT: they can definitely meteor cancel. details forthcoming

Against Falcon, at least, I recommend not doing this at 0%, as he won't be hit hard enough to go into knockdown, and will just wharrrgarbl onstage, and should be able to shield before you land. Also worth mentioning is that you can meteor cancel at any percent once hitlag ends, but it can't be buffered, that I know of, so doing it over the stage is difficult, and not always worth the effort.

Another platform follow-up to uthrow that I was brainstorming last night was AI onto the platform for a grounded techchase, although dair may still optimize the damage.

 

[Litt]

Against Falcon, at least, I recommend not doing this at 0%, as he won't be hit hard enough to go into knockdown, and will just wharrrgarbl onstage, and should be able to shield before you land. Also worth mentioning is that you can meteor cancel at any percent once hitlag ends, but it can't be buffered, that I know of, so doing it over the stage is difficult, and not always worth the effort.

Another platform follow-up to uthrow that I was brainstorming last night was AI onto the platform for a grounded techchase, although dair may still optimize the damage.

Actually I have been experimenting with full hop fair into falling fair which knocks into tumble, into dtilt or fsmash if the opponent DIs infront of samus up throw at 0-20ish percent. It extends the combo a lot farther than just a dair into tech chase + boco (much) %

 

[-Philip Coast Philip-]

nice new title litt

you taken over the boards yet?

 

[mistgun.fgc]

Actually I have been experimenting with full hop fair into falling fair which knocks into tumble, into dtilt or fsmash if the opponent DIs infront of samus up throw at 0-20ish percent. It extends the combo a lot farther than just a dair into tech chase + boco (much) %

I've been practicing double arial combos as well, big potential there. FAir does like 15-20% off a decent 3-4 strikes. The last one being a pop-up. Grab - Pummel 1 - UThrow - FAir - FAir - (Land on Platform) - FSmash / L-Cancel SHFFL NAir / U P T I L T

Drop through platform with Soft Missile - (Confirms into) - Missle-Cancel Power Missile - Dead?

 

[Kuikdraw]

What do you guys do when people are approaching with double jump aerials? Most of the time I'll react to the first jump with a nair only to miss and get hit when my opponent double jumps into their own aerial. More recently I've been trying to wavedash underneath my opponent but I have to be super quick or else I get bair'd. I also struggle against spacies who will get a hit and then full hop as I'm trying to hit them back. Then they come down again with an attack and repeat the process. It's really frustrating.

 

[343]

When you decide to jump forward nair at their jump, you're trying to win a RPS situation: you're hoping to stuff their move with your nair.

Doublejumping to dodge your nair is basically winning the RPS against your option. Nairing is a pretty big commitment because Samus has such a high jump / slow fall speed, so if they doublejump and you jump at them, they're pretty happy.

On the other hand, if you do something noncommital (wavedash back, wavedash under them, dash back, whatever), and they do the doublejump mixup, suddenly they're left with fewer options. They can choose to land on a platform if possible; if they don't, they're extremely limited in the range that they can cover with their aerial drift + aerial, making it very easy to outspace them once you figure out what this range is.

The "being super quick" part is unfortunately necessary in many cases, especially vs fast characters. You just gotta be frame tight on things that are possible, and on the flip side, know when it's not even theoretically possible to do something without getting hit for it.

If they get a hit and you don't cc, they're probably at a frame advantage; consider what move they hit you with and what they're about to do before mindlessly putting out your own "counter hitbox." Yeah, it seems easy to (for example) just spam A to try to nair them out of stuff (just like Peaches and Luigis like to do), but good players will be very ready to play around the obvious "you hit me let me try to counterhit you immediately even when it's totally not guaranteed."

So... if you notice that they hit you and fullhop, you can try to catch their jump by aerialing at them, you can wavedash back to reset the situation, you can get under them and try to cc, etc etc. There's a lot of problems caused by swinging with big moves when they're not guaranteed to hit.

Slight tangent: The last statement applies both to counterattack situations, and also in your own punish game situations. For example, I find myself often trying to do some move like dtilt/dsmash to follow up another hit, but sometimes I'm late and sometimes it's just not possible to hit before they hit the ground... then they just tech and punish me. The solution here is to "get good": tighten up timings for guaranteed stuff, and stop swinging when it's not guaranteed unless I think I have a read on their tech option.

 

[mistgun.fgc]

I don't have much to add right now, but thank you all for your insight! I don't have anyone around who can talk Samus tech. You guys are the best.

Lately my strings have been going off better. I do a lot of Groundbounce -> X. So DThrow/DTilt - UAir - FF Fair - DTilt -> until they break out. I've tried playing around with Samus' DJC and she has some really great, BnB Airials.

 

[343]

i'm not sure what "groundbounce" or "samus's djc" are, but good to hear that your combos are better

 

[Kataquax]

PIVOT F-TILT
when should i use it?
in which situation is it better than WD f-tilt and why?

 

[343]

wavedash goes further but is slower (3 frames jumpsquat + 10 frames landfall special = you can't act for 13 frames).

pivot ftilt is good if you just want to slightly respace yourself before ftilting (for example, if you notice you jabbed their shield from a bit too close).

if you're trying to outspace a move, dash back pivot probably won't get you a ton of distance, but you may be able to stuff something with the ftilt.

 

[Kuikdraw]

Guys, I went to shine this past weekend and it was amazing! I feel like I got significantly better each day I went! (Fri, sun) there were so many people there to play friendlies with and it seemed like there were dozens mains for each character. It was really great for getting practice with unfamiliar match ups.

I was having fun learning how to play samus and about melee fundamentals before shine but now I'm hooked. I want to learn all I can about this character and how to destroy other people with samus! (mostly sheiks and falcos...) but that's hard because I don't know any other samus mains and trying to dig through these boards gives me a huge headache. I talked with a lot of people over the weekend and got some great advice but I can't help but feel like our board is inferior to the boards for most other characters.

Compared to the other character pages this one is like a dark hole that people just throw information into. Like yeah we have this discussion page but it's over 150 pages long and i dont know maybe 60% of the posts are not meaningful at all. I tried sorting through it awhile ago to find useful stuff but quickly grew frustrated.

another thing that bugs me is that other characters have been so optimized. everything you need to know about the character like how they play neutral, how they combo, all their advanced tech, and all the miscellaneous crap about the character is all in one place in a couple different sticky posts on the character's board. But on this board it's a free for all. You can try searching for what you need but you may or may not find what you're looking for and then after that your only option is to sift through this black hole of a discussion board. Just look at this ganon page for instance

https://smashboards.com/threads/the-golden-nuggets-of-the-ganondorf-boards.437565/

There are like 2 top level ganon players and they have a much better character board than samus. unacceptable!

Don't you guys want to be the best? Don't samus mains always say they think samus is snubbed on the tier list? How can we get better if people can't even easily find out what moves string together on characters at certain percents!

I realize that there's more than enough examples of great samus' playing a plethora of characters on YouTube and in our video thread and I could just study those but, for players like me who sometimes need things spelled out to them inorder to understand them, I think we need to really vamp this place up.

Im still a noob melee player and a noob to this board but I hope at least some of you feel the same way. It's really up to you guys what we do from here but personally I think the first step is organization of what information we have already. Then we move to new organized discussion of various topics but mostly samus' neutral and character match ups. After we have that baseline we can do anything and talk about anything. The key is just keeping everything nice and organized so that even my mom could come here and read that you don't have to cc falcos laser, just wait until that ****** gets too close and f tilt him.

Anyways, regardless of what people think of this post or if anyone even replies at all, I'm going to be doing all I can to become a better samus. I'm just hoping that the small amount of samus mains here could band together and push our character to her limits so that we can punch a blaster-sized hole through any no good, rotten sheik main that gets in our way!

So let me know your thoughts, random internet people. I will help anyway I can but I think it's really up to the better samus' here to lead us to optimization.