Everyone should return, No cutting!

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#1
So we have support threads for each veteran returning and threads speculating who's going to be cut. But I've got a better topic for you, how about all your favorite Smash characters come back? Yep, everyone. The whole roster from Smash 4 plus the cut characters Ice Climbers, Wolf, Snake, Pichu, Young Link, Squirtle, Ivysaur and even the Pokémon Trainer. All 66 characters from the series should be in the next Smash game. It could happen. Melee hasn't cut the N64 veterans. When veterans were cut from Brawl and Smash 4, that caused a lot of controversy and people missed those characters. People were excited when Mewtwo, Lucas and Roy came back as DLC. Though the Pokémon Trainer could cause problems for players who liked the improvements in Charizard as a solo character, if everyone comes back it would mean that trainer comes back too. But there are people who liked that trainer, so it wouldn't be fair if he was the only one cut. And the cut veterans in past Smash games had some issue in the way. But what if Sakurai made veterans a higher priority than newcomers and made sure nothing gets in the way of any veterans coming back and even persuaded Konami, Sega, Capcom, Namco, Square Enix and Platinum Games to reuse Snake, Sonic, Mega Man, Ryu, Pac-Man, Cloud Strife and Bayonetta in the new game? Do you think there's a possibility for the whole cast to make it in?
 

TMNTSSB4

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#2
I’d rather have newcomers join than bring back vets that aren’t needed (like Pichu or Pokemon Trainer) while someone like Wolf and Ice Climbers is a yes (Snake might never come back).
 
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PF9

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#3
From what I heard, at least everyone from SSB 3DS Wii U might be coming back plus Ice Climbers (who were left out because of 3DS technical limitations). This brings us hope that some other cut veterans might be back as well.
 

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#4
No. Cutting is necessary. If you want new characters, old characters sometimes have to take a back seat. Inklings may have taken up dev time from an older character, for example. That's how it works.

On top of that "they should return because they have fans" is a terrible argument. Pokemon Trainer is a terribly balanced character. From a design sense they are purposely intrusive on each other. I don't care how many fans it has, bringing it back is pointless. As for the individual characters PT has, without the gimmick, Squirtle and Ivysaur don't make much sense on their own to return.

There's other characters that have little reason to return, but I don't feel like breaking it all down. Point is, cuts happen, and this "they were there so they should come back" mentality needs to be dropped.
 
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TMNTSSB4

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#5
No. Cutting is necessary. If you want new characters, old characters sometimes have to take a back seat. Inklings may have taken up dev time from an older character, for example. That's how it works.

On top of that "they should return because they have fans" is a terrible argument. Pokemon Trainer is a terrible balanced character. From a design sense they make little sense. I dont care how many fans it has, bringing it back makes little sense. Without the gimmick, Squirtle and Ivysaur don't hold up, and make little sense to return.

There's other characters that have little reason to return, but I don't feel like breaking it all down. Point is, cuts happen, and this "they were there so they should come back" mentality needs to be dropped.
Well if they’re veterans without technical problems or ownership problems they should definitely return (like Ice Climbers), but other than a situation like that or returning after missing out last time due to time constraints and Daddy Sakurai being nice, I agree
 
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#6
It'll be hard for the Pokémon Trainer to return after the improvements left behind from the removal of transformations. But since he was just there in the background while the player controlled Squirtle, Ivysaur and Charizard, maybe he wouldn't count as much. Squirtle and Ivysaur can return without him and have new Down Specials and Final Smashes. The Pokémon Trainer is the least likely character to return outside of the third-parties due to not wanting to nerf Samus, Zero Suit Samus, Zelda, Sheik, or Charizard.
 

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#7
It'll be hard for the Pokémon Trainer to return after the improvements left behind from the removal of transformations. But since he was just there in the background while the player controlled Squirtle, Ivysaur and Charizard, maybe he wouldn't count as much. Squirtle and Ivysaur can return without him and have new Down Specials and Final Smashes. The Pokémon Trainer is the least likely character to return outside of the third-parties due to not wanting to nerf Samus, Zero Suit Samus, Zelda, Sheik, or Charizard.
I'll be honest, I have no clue what you're trying say in that last sentence.

Anyway, I'm fine with people wanting Ivy and Squirtle back, but once again realize their sole calling card to come back is because they were already there.
 
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#8
I'll be honest, I have no clue what you're trying say in that last sentence.

Anyway, I'm fine with people wanting Ivy and Squirtle back, but once again realize their sole calling card to come back is because they were already there.
That last sentence is about the chance that the Pokémon Trainer bringing transformations back would make the developers merge Samus with Zero Suit Samus and Zelda with Sheik and Charizard will have to return to the trainer's team. Ivysaur may not have a good reason to come back since it was one of the forgettable Pokémon from Gen 1, but Squirtle was really popular. Maybe even more popular than Jigglypuff back when Red and Blue were released. And I liked Squirtle in Brawl. The Subspace Emissary has you use him for most of Lucas and the Trainer's adventure. And besides, Jigglypuff keeps coming back despite not being so relevant anymore. And hey, with all the controversy of cut characters and how pleased people were to see Mewtwo and Roy back, maybe Sakurai wouldn't want to cut anyone? The Switch has quadruple the amount of storage the 3DS had so even if everyone came back, there'd be plenty of room for more newcomers. Maybe there could be double the amount of newcomers? And the developers can port data from the Wii U game into the Switch and tweak them a bit to fit the new game while focusing more of the work on the newcomers.
 

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#9
I'm not sure if we really need Young Link and Toon Link at the same time, outside of Young Link getting a major overhaul, and it would be weird to have Squirtle, Ivysaur, and Pokemon Trainer all as separate characters, but at the very least, I'd like to see Snake, Ice Climbers, and Wolf return.

I wouldn't say no to Squirtle and Ivysaur, though.
 

MarineIris

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#10
I remember playing only Yoshi and Pichu in Melee, then playing so much Pokemon Trainer in Brawl. Naturally, I barely ever won anything, but it was fun. I wish Squirtle or Ivysaur came back instead of Charizard. Or better yet, replace Squirtle with Piplup/Oshawott and Ivysaur with Bayleef. I support cuts for freeing up space for non-Kanto Pokemon.

I'm okay with Young Link being gone since he was directly replaced in what amounts to a graphical update. I'm not sure why Pichu can't be reworked if Roy got the privledge, but fine. Wolf and Ice Climbers are who I'm pulling for in SSB5, though ideally I do want everyone back.

I'm curious: What are some of the reasons certain characters should be cut over others? We've already hit upon "Cut this character because they don't perform well in tournaments." What are some others?
 

RileyXY1

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#11
I highly doubt that everyone is staying. You will run the risk of the roster becoming too big and bloated.
 

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#12
I highly doubt that everyone is staying. You will run the risk of the roster becoming too big and bloated.
The only problem with that is the reasons why characters have been cut in the past. It's impossible to tell which characters would be considered low priority if there's time constraints (clones have been cut before, but they're easy to remake). However, none of the characters seem like they'd run into technical issues like the Ice Climbers, Squirtle, and Ivysaur did (they don't need to worry about the 3DS's limitations), and the only other recurring issue is licensing problems.

Sega's characters (Sonic and Bayonetta) are as close as you can get to a sure thing for a wide variety of reasons, and I can't see Capcom saying no to the inclusion of Ryu and Mega Man when they can help sell all sorts of games on the Switch. If Namco-Bandai's working on the new Smash, then Pac-Man's practically a given, and Square-Enix has been pretty close to Nintendo, so it's not going through a Konami-style meltdown.

There might be a few cuts (we might lose the multiple Mii fighters if custom moves don't return; Roy or Lucina might be dropped since even Sakurai seems to feel like there's too many FE characters), but I can't see a huge amount of them being removed.
 
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#13
Well, since the Switch holds four times the memory of the 3DS, they could have everyone back and double the amount of newcomers, right?
 

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#14
Well, since the Switch holds four times the memory of the 3DS, they could have everyone back and double the amount of newcomers, right?
That could happen if they had no limits on time and resources, but seeing as the game is scheduled for release this year, I wouldn't place any bets on that.
 

MoonlitIllusion

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#16
The only problem with that is the reasons why characters have been cut in the past. It's impossible to tell which characters would be considered low priority if there's time constraints (clones have been cut before, but they're easy to remake). However, none of the characters seem like they'd run into technical issues like the Ice Climbers, Squirtle, and Ivysaur did (they don't need to worry about the 3DS's limitations), and the only other recurring issue is licensing problems.

Sega's characters (Sonic and Bayonetta) are as close as you can get to a sure thing for a wide variety of reasons, and I can't see Capcom saying no to the inclusion of Ryu and Mega Man when they can help sell all sorts of games on the Switch. If Namco-Bandai's working on the new Smash, then Pac-Man's practically a given, and Square-Enix has been pretty close to Nintendo, so it's not going through a Konami-style meltdown.

There might be a few cuts (we might lose the multiple Mii fighters if custom moves don't return; Roy or Lucina might be dropped since even Sakurai seems to feel like there's too many FE characters), but I can't see a huge amount of them being removed.
I don't see them cutting roy again, he was added back because he was a popular veteran, the fans wanted him in and it seems like kind of a **** move to cut him so suddenly. And Lucina is one of the most popular fire emblem characters there is (didn't she land at like 3 or 4 in the FE Heroes poll?) and given that she's such an easy character to make, cutting her will only do more harm than good. If anything we just won't get another FE character, after all Corrin was the only first party newcomer added as DLC and the only fire emblem game to come out since is a remake, and Celica doesn't bring much that robin doesn't anyway. It seems more likely that sakurai will leave it as it is rather than cut any of them to add newcomers.
 

osby

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#18
Want back: Everyone in Smash For, Ice Climbers, Snake, Wolf

Even if there are still a few cuts, they are understandable. Absolutely no cuts scenario might be stretching a bit but I hope they'll add some lower priority characters if they had time. I wouldn't complain about getting Pichu back, for example.

And guests are mostly up to other party.
 
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#25
So we have support threads for each veteran returning and threads speculating who's going to be cut. But I've got a better topic for you, how about all your favorite Smash characters come back? Yep, everyone. The whole roster from Smash 4 plus the cut characters Ice Climbers, Wolf, Snake, Pichu, Young Link, Squirtle, Ivysaur and even the Pokémon Trainer. All 66 characters from the series should be in the next Smash game. It could happen. Melee hasn't cut the N64 veterans. When veterans were cut from Brawl and Smash 4, that caused a lot of controversy and people missed those characters. People were excited when Mewtwo, Lucas and Roy came back as DLC. Though the Pokémon Trainer could cause problems for players who liked the improvements in Charizard as a solo character, if everyone comes back it would mean that trainer comes back too. But there are people who liked that trainer, so it wouldn't be fair if he was the only one cut. And the cut veterans in past Smash games had some issue in the way. But what if Sakurai made veterans a higher priority than newcomers and made sure nothing gets in the way of any veterans coming back and even persuaded Konami, Sega, Capcom, Namco, Square Enix and Platinum Games to reuse Snake, Sonic, Mega Man, Ryu, Pac-Man, Cloud Strife and Bayonetta in the new game? Do you think there's a possibility for the whole cast to make it in?
So we have support threads for each veteran returning and threads speculating who's going to be cut. But I've got a better topic for you, how about all your favorite Smash characters come back? Yep, everyone. The whole roster from Smash 4 plus the cut characters Ice Climbers, Wolf, Snake, Pichu, Young Link, Squirtle, Ivysaur and even the Pokémon Trainer. All 66 characters from the series should be in the next Smash game. It could happen. Melee hasn't cut the N64 veterans. When veterans were cut from Brawl and Smash 4, that caused a lot of controversy and people missed those characters. People were excited when Mewtwo, Lucas and Roy came back as DLC. Though the Pokémon Trainer could cause problems for players who liked the improvements in Charizard as a solo character, if everyone comes back it would mean that trainer comes back too. But there are people who liked that trainer, so it wouldn't be fair if he was the only one cut. And the cut veterans in past Smash games had some issue in the way. But what if Sakurai made veterans a higher priority than newcomers and made sure nothing gets in the way of any veterans coming back and even persuaded Konami, Sega, Capcom, Namco, Square Enix and Platinum Games to reuse Snake, Sonic, Mega Man, Ryu, Pac-Man, Cloud Strife and Bayonetta in the new game? Do you think there's a possibility for the whole cast to make it in?
DUDE!!!! YOU CALLED IT!!!!
YOU PREDICTED THIS!!!!
EVERYTHING THAT HAPPENED IN THE E3 NINTENDO DIRECT FOR SMASH BROS. ULTIMATE, YOU PREDICTED. IT ALL CAME TRUE!!!! IT ACTUALLY HAPPENED!!!

EVERY CHARACTER from previous smash games is returning dude, just like you predicted. It's AMAZING!!! Bruh, either you're psychic like mewtwo or sakurai pays attention to what's said on these forums. That's insane.

I’d rather have newcomers join than bring back vets that aren’t needed (like Pichu or Pokemon Trainer) while someone like Wolf and Ice Climbers is a yes (Snake might never come back).
You couldn't be more WRONG mah boi
 

TMNTSSB4

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#26
You couldn't be more WRONG mah boi
And guess what...I don’t care cause it got me hyped as hell (makes it even better knowing this is an anniversary game (still ain’t gonna play Pichu much but Female Pokemon Trainer...Yes)

Also you double posted...not sure if that’s still unallowed
 
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#27
And guess what...I don’t care cause it got me hyped as hell (makes it even better knowing this is an anniversary game (still ain’t gonna play Pichu much but Female Pokemon Trainer...Yes)

Also you double posted...not sure if that’s still unallowed
Ikr?!! Btw, The double post was an accident. I was trying to respond out of pure hype but accidently hit the preview button.
 

TMNTSSB4

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#28
Ikr?!! Btw, The double post was an accident. I was trying to respond out of pure hype but accidently hit the preview button.
Ah, and as for the “ikr”, I have a feeling that this game might end up taking the no cuts thing to the limit, bringing back every single stage and song ever
 

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#29
Well, the op got what they wanted. No point to this thread anymore.
 
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