Every game has had them. Let's Talk Clones

Crystanium

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#41
At the very least, I could see Dark Samus as a semi-clone of :4samus:. She utilizes some of the weapons her counterpart uses, like missiles, Charge Beams and the like, though her Charge Beam is a phazon-powered instant beam rather than a slow moving Power Beam. She would also have her unique moves, like the Phazon Barrier (which can damage nearby targets and deflect projectiles), Phazon Boost Ball, and Phazon Charge (cloaks herself in phazon energy and launches herself in whichever direction she chooses).

Some of :4samus:'s normals could potentially be translated into Dark Samus' moveset (like Smashes)and would have increased potency, like more power/larger hitboxes but at the cost of more startup and/or endlag.
I have you covered.

Dark Samus

-Special-
Neutral B - Scatter Shot

This attack is Dark Samus' signature move as it was the first attack she used in Metroid Prime 2: Echoes, and tries again in the second battle. This attack fires Phazon bullets. If all of these bullets should hit Dark Samus' opponent, that will be a total of 21% damage. Scatter Shot fires at a 10° angle. Because of the high amount of damage in a single shot, Scatter Shot cannot be charged. (In fact, it doesn't appear that this ever happens in Metroid Prime 2: Echoes or Metroid Prime 3: Corruption).

Up B - Phazon Sphere
When Dark Samus uses this attack, she'll end up temporarily with super armor. The way Phazon Sphere works is that Dark Samus leaps into the air, about a full hop in height, and launches herself in any of the 8 directions. If the opponent shields this attack, Dark Samus will rebound, but upon landing, she will be temporarily unable to move due to cool down. This is a KO attack and produces 20% damage. If Dark Samus decides to launch downward, she will generate a shock wave, which makes this attack also useful for edge-guarding, but the damage is reduced to 10% instead.

Forward B - Phazon Missile

When this attack is not a smash attack, Dark Samus will launch a super missile, which will cause 10% damage. When smashed, the Phazon Missile has a property similar to that of a freeze effect. This attack produces 15% damage. There is an inverse relationship here, as super missiles are capable of KO'ing if the opponent is at a high percent, but when smashed, the Phazon Missile will not kill, but rather cause Dark Samus' opponent to fly up in an 80° angle just like any attack with a freeze effect will. Although risky, Dark Samus could use this close up in order to follow up with a combo.

Down B - Dark Echo

When Dark Samus summons Dark Echo, she is essentially summoning what would be considered an assist trophy. During this time, a clone of Dark Samus will appear, moving on its own terms based on the AI of a level 9 computer. Touching this clone will inflict damage on Dark Samus' opponent. Dark Echo can be removed from the stage if she receives 30% damage. Dark Echo can perform all attacks Dark Samus can perform, but these attacks are reduced both in damage and knock-back by 24%. Dark Echo doesn't work off any concept of combos and is more of a nuisance than any true threat. However, this does allow Dark Samus to have a distraction to aid her in combat. If the player decides to use Dark Echo again when there is one present, the player will take control of Dark Echo instead and Dark Samus will behave as a level 9 computer. The player can alter between the two by performing Dark Echo at any time. Once Dark Echo is defeated, Dark Samus will need to wait 10 seconds before she can summon her clone again.

-Normal-
Neutral A - Phazon Punch
This attack is somewhat like Samus' jab 1, the difference being that it cause 6% damage, has better hit stun, and it has a lower FAF in order for Dark Samus to do her Phazon Punch in a manner as if she were taking advantage of IASA frames. This jab can lead into other attacks like Phrygisian Pillar, causing the opponent to be launched at 85°. Phazon Punch is only 3 frames, meaning that while it is a short duration, making it safe. Furthermore, attacks with 2 frames or less will often counter this attack, unless of course Dark Samus brings out her jab before her opponent inputs their jab.

Dash - Speed Boost
Dark Samus can KO her opponent with this attack at high percent. When Dark Samus uses this attack, she is covered by a blue energy field, meaning that if she uses this attack early and the attack is shielded, she will still have somewhat of a safe distance to reduce punishment. Speed Boost knocks Dark Samus' opponent in an 80° angle, allowing for her to follow up with some aerial combos. The total amount of damage caused by this attack varies. Its early and late damage percent is 8%. It's normal damage is 10%.

Up Tilt - Aú sem Mão

Dark Samus will do a flip, bringing her left or right leg to an arc depending on the direction she's facing, following up with her other leg to bring a full swing against her opponent. This attack has two hits to it and can be used for juggling or even spiking with the first hit if she's standing next to the ledge and edge-guards at the right time. If Dark Samus' opponent is in the air, she can use Aú sem Mão to juggle her opponent. A down throw to up tilt is a guaranteed combo and is especially effective against larger or heavier characters. Each kick deals 6% damage.

Forward Tilt - Roundhouse Kick
Dark Samus' forward tilt is similar to Samus' with its good range and ability to angle diagonally up or down. The attack deals 8% linearly, 7% if angled downward, and 9% if angled upward. This kick has a sweet spot, should Dark Samus land her attack with her foot, as opposed to the rest of her leg. The difference, of course, is the hit stun caused by Dark Samus' Phazon-charged attacks. The higher the percent, the longer Dark Samus' opponent will be stunned. Because the stun will be more effective at higher percentages, this can allow Dark Samus to follow up with another attack, such as Phazon Tendrils or Boost Ball. With the hit stun present, connecting Roundhouse Kick to the aforementioned options would technically make these true combos.

Down Tilt - Phazon Tendrils

This attack allows Dark Samus to push enemies away if they get too close. It covers a lot of range on both sides, so this is also effective against those who roll a lot. Phazon Tendrils causes 12% damage and launches DS' opponent at an 80° angle. It is capable of KO'ing anywhere between 130% to 150% depending on the weight of the character.

-Smash-
Up Smash - Phrygisian Pillar
Unlike the numerous Phrygisian Pillars that Dark Samus generates in Metroid Prime 3: Corruption, she can only generate one at a time. It can be destroyed, but if this attack fails to come into contact with the ground, it will fall below, making it a useful edge-guarding attack against those who try to recover low. It has a spiking property. If used on the ground, Dark Samus' opponent will be launched at an 85° angle.

Phrygisian Pillar can be rolled behind, so this attack is really only useful for defensive purposes. This also means that even if Dark Samus' opponent rolls past the pillar to get to her, she could easily roll behind it to remain protected. Phrygisian Pillar only remains on the stage for 10 seconds and it can be destroyed if it receives 20% damage. If Dark Samus uses Phyrgisian Pillar, even after there is a pillar on the stage, the initial pillar will break apart and the new one will take its place.

Forward Smash - Plasma Beam
This attack is like Phazon Beam, but it has more knock-back and can KO. This attack can be charged to cause more damage with a maximum of 25%. Unlike the Phazon Beam, it has a shorter range, probably a little past Mega Man's Charge Shot. Plasma Beam can still be angled diagonally up or down. Since it also has flame properties, it will cause 1% damage per 12 frames, totaling out to be 5% of extra damage, since the game would be 60 frames per second. The disadvantage of Plasma Beam is that Dark Samus cannot move while she's using this attack, leaving her vulnerable for 20 frames, even though FAF is negligible.

Down Smash - Boost Ball
Dark Samus will first strike in the direction she is facing and then move to the opposite direction before the attack finishes. It's fast speed is good at preventing those who roll. Boost Ball knocks opponents at a 178° angle, making this a perfect KO attack, as the opponent won't be able to tech on the ground. The range for this attack, however, is short, about the length of Samus' forward smash. This means that should this attack be used on DS' opponent in order to KO, even if the opponent hadn't rolled to get hit, the opponent could take advantage of this if his/her range is greater, either by virtue of a disjointed hit box or projectile.

-Aerial-
Neutral A - Radioactive Explosion

A burst of radioactive energy bursts from Dark Samus' body, knocking her opponent away from her. When Dark Samus performs this attack, if she has any momentum in the air, she will suddenly stop in place to release this energy, and then continue with the momentum she originally had. This attack is good at knocking her opponent's barrage of attacks, giving her time to breathe. Like some of Dark Samus' other attacks, this is a useful attack at KO'ing her opponent off the stage in a horizontal direction.

Up Air - Helicopter Kick
Dark Samus will perform a rotation of upward kicks, catching her opponent in consecutive hits. Helicopter Kick causes her opponent to fly nigh vertically, allowing a KO depending on the height of the ceiling or the percentage. When Dark Samus performs this attack, she can move forward or backward, ensuring that if her opponent so chooses to DI to escape, she can maintain the consecutive hits. Backing away also allows for Dark Samus to maintain safety, while moving forward allows a continuous flow of combo momentum.

Forward Air - Plasma Arc
Plasma Arc fires at a 270° angle and works its way to a 0° angle. This aerial attack is useful against opponents trying to recover low, since there is really no other option to escape but up. Of course, a grounded opponent could shield or roll. Plasma Arc is a long stream of plasma, which has knock-back useful enough to push Dark Samus' opponent away. Like Plasma Beam, this attack will cause an additional 5% damage based on its burning property, which works at 1% per 12 frames, or 5% per 60 frames. The total amount of damage caused by this attack is 12%.

Back Air - Back Kick
This is one of Dark Samus' effective methods to KO'ing her opponent due to the high knock-back. Because Dark Samus' leg is extended just like Samus' and Zero Suit Samus' back air, this gives Dark Samus a safe option, should she connect to her kick to her opponent's shield, rather than to her opponent. Like the two other characters, this will deal enough damage to eventually cause a shield break, so it's best for Dark Samus' opponents to avoid shielding this attack too much. Total damage dealt is 14%.

Down Air - Phazon Burst
Somewhat similar to Samus' down air, except when Dark Samus uses this attack, she'll use her left palm and a burst of Phazon energy will propel her upward while spiking her opponent with a meteor smash.

-Throw-
Neutral A - Phazon Pellets
Because Dark Samus uses her left hand to grab, once she grabs her opponent, she fires miniature Phazon projectiles to deal damage. The attack takes only 1 frame and it causes 1% damage.

Up Throw - Missile Launch
Dark Samus grabs her opponent, throws him/her up into the air and fires a super missile. Lower ceilings or higher percentages allow for a possible KO.

Forward Throw - Phazon Push
Dark Samus grabs onto her opponent's shoulder as she leaps over, piercing her sharp fingers into her opponent's shoulder to toss him/her overhead so as to land in front of Dark Samus. At this time, she has let go of her opponent, causing her opponent to fall while she pulls back her left palm, only to thrust it forcefully against her opponent to launch him/her away.

Back Throw - Spin Toss
Dark Samus will spin around in a tornado motion with her opponent swinging from her hand, causing the opponent to fly at a 180° angle. This attack is based after Samus' lethal strike in Metroid: Other M.

Down Throw - Super-charged Slam
With her opponent at her mercy, Dark Samus will send a course of blue electricity through her opponent as she slams him/her to the ground. At this time, the opponent is stunned momentarily before being launched at an 80° angle. During this stun time, a window of opportunity is established for Dark Samus to follow up with any true combo in any manner she so desires. However, as Dark Samus' opponent increases in damage, her opponent, like most who are thrown downward, will have been given enough space to avoid further combos, so this is seen as being effective at around 0 to 100%.

-Miscellaneous-
Air Dodge - Phantom

During this state, Dark Samus is completely immune to attacks, just like anyone who air-dodges.

Dodge - Phantom
This is the same as the aforementioned dodging ability, except it's on the ground.

Roll - Sense Move
Dark Samus' way of rolling is nothing like Samus'. Rather than going into morph ball mode, Dark Samus will quickly hop away. This roll is faster than Samus', being at least on par with that Zero Suit Samus'.

Final Smash - Aurora Unit 313
AU 313 will rise from the ground and then Dark Samus will leap into the air and enter AU 313's red "eye". Then AU 313 will fire a purple beam up and down while releasing two dark echoes and shooting red spheres.
 

Indefinite Minimum

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#42
I want as many clones as possible. Just put them over the same character slot as the original so people don't get mad about it.

We could get like five or six extra fire emblem characters that way.
 

Ahm Skittish!

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#43
I want as many clones as possible. Just put them over the same character slot as the original so people don't get mad about it.

We could get like five or six extra fire emblem characters that way.
The main reason this doesn't work is there's no way to actually record those match-ups in the game's coding, which is why they get their own slot, besides having unique statistics.

Best we can get is Alternate Costumes for what you're talking about, which wouldn't be a bad thing as long as the characters have the same model and makes sense playing exactly alike(See: Pikmin Captains, all Gender Alts, Bowser Jr. and the Koopalings). Ones like Pichu or Toon Link wouldn't work right, due to having too many differences overall, but they could certainly make Blood Falcon a 100% proper costume, or even a Metal Mario alt for Mario(I'm aware of the metal box, but it's an alt that is logical in comparison. It's hard to find good examples, as alts aren't very common and hard to do without losing too much character identify, assuming the characters have any remote uniqueness).
 

Indefinite Minimum

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#44
The main reason this doesn't work is there's no way to actually record those match-ups in the game's coding, which is why they get their own slot, besides having unique statistics.

Best we can get is Alternate Costumes for what you're talking about, which wouldn't be a bad thing as long as the characters have the same model and makes sense playing exactly alike(See: Pikmin Captains, all Gender Alts, Bowser Jr. and the Koopalings). Ones like Pichu or Toon Link wouldn't work right, due to having too many differences overall, but they could certainly make Blood Falcon a 100% proper costume, or even a Metal Mario alt for Mario(I'm aware of the metal box, but it's an alt that is logical in comparison. It's hard to find good examples, as alts aren't very common and hard to do without losing too much character identify, assuming the characters have any remote uniqueness).
Who's to say they couldn't just change the game to make it work.
 

Ahm Skittish!

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#46
Who's to say they couldn't just change the game to make it work.
Because it didn't work when he tried. He had to make them completely separate characters in the files to do so. They can't be costumes at all. He tried it in Smash 4, and it didn't work at all. This is part of why he separated the clone alts in the game, because he couldn't get costumes tied to their own statistics.

Is it theoretically possible a later game might allow it to work? Maybe. But it's more likely they won't go that route and stick with the slot factor. I'd prefer if they did more like what Brawl did for Zelda/Sheik. You could fully change characters on the CSS itself, and they had their own full statistical blocks/etc. Of course, if their moveset is different, this works. If it's not different at all, there's no point in special statistics, as it's just a regular alt like the Koopalings, with no differences other than what they physically look like as a model.
 

LaneTip

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#47
vaati from minish cap could be like link to toon link for gannondorf, the animations and attacks would just have to look more flashy because vaati isn't a big dark evil guy, but a small wizard, I know he isn't evil at the end of the game but smash isn't canon so go wild
 
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#48
Been a while since this has had a post, so I might bring up some stuff to spark discussion.

We have Dr. Mario and Toon Link. What other alternate versions of existing characters could work as clones?

Ideas could be:
Yarn Yoshi
Yarn Kirby
Dr. Luigi
Toon Zelda

Of course I think most including myself would be against this.
 

Diddy Kong

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#50
Been a while since this has had a post, so I might bring up some stuff to spark discussion.

We have Dr. Mario and Toon Link. What other alternate versions of existing characters could work as clones?

Ideas could be:
Yarn Yoshi
Yarn Kirby
Dr. Luigi
Toon Zelda

Of course I think most including myself would be against this.
I actually would really like a Wooly Yarn Yoshi! First of the reasons... There probably won't ever be another Yoshi's Island newcomer unless Poochy becomes ultra major in another game or so and made in that exact game with Smash in the minds of the developers. Plus, I think a light weight, aerial based Yoshi would be awesome to play as!

Just imagine it doing the Egg Roll attack, and after a while, Yarn Yoshi rolls himself 'up' because he's used up all the yarn that he's made out of! I really like the idea, even if it's a straight up clone, it would be a clever clone... Much like how I think Lucina is just about THE MOST clever clone character in Smash Bros. history.

Toon Zelda is a given however, not a given of inclusion, but that she would be a full clone most likely. I can't see her having different Specials.

Dr.Luigi would be overkill however, especially since Dr.Mario AND Luigi are already based on Mario's moveset. Then we'd have a clone character of a character that's already a semi-clone. That would be similar to say, having Eliwood be a Roy clone. :laugh: However, it has it's merrits.

Yarn Kirby seems like ulta lightweight tier however. Am not TOO against the idea, but wouldn't they need to include a Yarn Meta Knight and Dedede as well? With Yoshi, it's hard to think of another newcomer in general so I love the idea. With Kirby, I'd rather have them focus on adding Bandana Dee, and IF they need a clone or semi-clone I still say Galactia Knight would be a great choice.
 
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#51
Clones are disappointing when they waste the potential for a character that had plenty of material to draw from that could have made them a more unique fighter. :drmario::toonlink::ganondorf:
It's especially disappointing when I'm familiar with a character's source material. I get so hyped to see them announced, only tpo be let down at the realization that they're just a slightly slower/faster version of another character.
 

Ahm Skittish!

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#52
Clones are disappointing when they waste the potential for a character that had plenty of material to draw from that could have made them a more unique fighter. :drmario::toonlink::ganondorf:
It's especially disappointing when I'm familiar with a character's source material. I get so hyped to see them announced, only tpo be let down at the realization that they're just a slightly slower/faster version of another character.
To be fair, at least Ganondorf makes a lot of sense when he was put in. For one thing, he had a lot of physical abilities in OOT, with a tiny amount of projectiles, and artwork showing him literally doing an overhead punch towards Link. When he was updated in Brawl, his animations(not all, but some) were changed to match some of his later moves within the canon series.

As for Dr. Mario, he had no real "moves" in his own games beyond throwing Megavitamins. There's no canon potential to draw from. Beyond a stage and final smash, the rest would need to be made up at best here. Sure, using stuff you'd expect from Doctors is nice, but that doesn't make it any more made-up than re-using Mario's regular moves at that point.

Toon Link simply has the most iconic special moves people think of when it comes to Link(Final Smash aside). It's understandable that they're keeping that factor. His A moves are heavily different with a few exceptions.

I do agree some more unique stuff could be made for two of them. I'd love an alternate moveset idea if it was a legit thing for Smash. I don't think it'll happen, sadly, mostly because character slots now are basically "movesets" at this point. So a Ganondorf with a unique moveset would make more sense with his own slot for the purpose of battle records. However, if they could have perfect battle records for movesets, even for those who share a slot, it'd be a great idea to implement. Basically pressing a button and having a different portrait with a completely different moveset to make them more fun to play as(and appeal to those who want a canon moveset while not taking away those who prefer a veteran moveset). If anything, they could give alternate Ganondorf Gerudo Dragon back, likewise with the old Koopa Klaw for Bowser, and have him use his Brawl/Melee moveset instead as an alt. His moveset in 4 is pretty darn different. This could also give unique builds or mechanics back(and any that break the game can be banned in this case as a moveset without outright banning the entire character). The major downside is the immense amount of balance and playtesting needed to implement this idea. On the other hand, maybe they could, just, put more characters in? Toon Ganondorf? Young Link could retain the clone moveset with Toon Link being updated with tons of new moves?(should go without saying that the feasibility of this is not very good due to an extreme amount of characters, which also becomes somewhat unfun to deal with when you realize you need to be Classic/etc. with all of them. Overall, both ideas have problems. Ideal, but not realistic).
 

Uffe

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#55
:4drmario: - Fun character, but I wouldn't miss him if he wasn't in the next game. His attacks are so much stronger in comparison to his normal counterpart, Mario. The only differences about him is his Soaring Tornado (down B), and down air. I'm not going to consider property differences i.e. his up B not being a multihit attack like Mario's. He's still a clone regardless.

:4falco: - He's had a pretty good overhaul from his Melee movesets. No attack about him is the same minus his up smash, up air, back air, Blaster, Falco Phantasm, Fire Bird, and Reflector. I'm aware of him having the same Final Smash as Fox, but I won't mention Final Smashes again since nobody in competitive play uses them. I honestly would not consider him a clone, seeing how there are drastic differences between he and Fox. I think when it comes to specials and Final Smashes, they'll be the same.

:4feroy: - Great to see Roy again, but when he was announced for DLC, I was hoping he'd be drastically different from Marth and Lucina.

:4ganondorf: - I'm still bothered by the fact that they didn't even give Ganondorf a major moveset overhaul. The only things that make him difference, in terms of movesets, no properties, is his foward air, jab, forward tilt, and down tilt. Everything else about him is still Falcon-esque, and I wish they would have went with moves from the Ocarina of Time Ganondorf, Twilight Princess Ganondorf, or even Demise's attacks from Skyward Sword. They've had so much time to change him into a character with fitting attacks, but nope, we're still using Ganondorf from Brawl.

:pichumelee: - Honestly, he's one clone that doesn't need to make a return. He was like an overpowered, very fast, self-inflicting Pikachu with very small hitboxes. I don't know how anyone could take this character seriously.

:4lucina: - Nothing about her movesets separate her from Marth. You could tell me that Marth has a tipper, and that her smash attack relies more on the center of her blade, but again, changing properties of a character to differentiate themselves from the original doesn't make themselves original, otherwise, Dr. Mario, Falco, Roy, and Pichu wouldn't have been considered clones in Melee. She would have been better off as a palette swap like Robin, Corrin, Olimar, Bowser Jr., Villager, and Wii Fit Trainer.

:4darkpit: - Same thing with him.

:toonlink: - There are slight differences with him, but he still acts a lot like Link. Yeah, I know he's "Link", but they could have made him a bit more unique, using some of his stuff from Phantom Hourglass, and Spirit Tracks.

:wolf: - He actually wasn't a clone. His specials and Final Smash mimicked Fox's for the most part, but everything else about him saw different.

:lucas: - Same with my brother from another Mother.
 

Krysco

Dark Galacta Meta Kirb
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#56
Made this post in the Speculation thread and got no responses to it but it's about a clone so may as well post it here for anyone who cares:
Got curious about the shield beam so I looked at all 3 boss fights Galacta Knight has. Also figured I'd try to note what attacks he can take from his boss battles to give him a moveset in Smash
At 0:15 his forward and back dashes could be used for his rolls.
At 0:19 that horizontal slash is basically the first part of MK's ftilt so I could see GK having it on the same move. If not then jab.
At 0:22 that downward stab could be his dair and could be a stall and fall. Pretty sure MK actually has that dair in PM with a diagonal variant too.
At 0:43 I don't know if that move could be put into Smash. Maybe made smaller and it could be his fsmash? Has the vertical range of Palutena's usmash though if left unchanged.
At 0:51 I can see a smaller version of that attack being his nair.
At 1:03 there's his shield beam. Not sure what move that could be made to be. The obvious answer would be a special like neutral b or side b.
At 1:10 another potential fsmash given that it looks like it has the range of Gunner's fsmash. Could be made smaller to be a jab ala Zelda or possibly an ftilt.
At 1:20 I can't really see the enemy spawning making it into his moveset. It's not impossible seeing how Dedede spawns enemies with his side special and Bowser Jr. does the same with his down special but there's no real animation for it and GK goes off screen for it which would obviously have to be changed. Could be a Final Smash but it'd make for a pretty lame one unless it was overdone to basically be Brawl Dedede's Final Smash.
At 1:39 Mach Tornado just like what MK has. Interestingly enough, he only goes downwards and side to side with it which MK does for one of his customs.
At 1:54 there's his horizontal slash again but he does the rest of the move too and there's a beam that runs along the ground a bit. Could still be an ftilt or maybe an fsmash. For the latter, I'm thinking something like Cloud's fsmash but with a smaller weapon and a beam at the end.
At 2:14, basically Shuttle Loop al though it's more horizontal than vertical. Could be a side or up special and it could be like MK's horizontal up special custom.
At 2:23 I can see a smaller version of this being his dsmash although it would basically be the same as Megaman's soooo...
At 0:05 the gif I showed earlier but I can easily see a sped up version of this being his stage entry.
At 0:10 we get to see him run which could be his running animation if he doesn't glide like MK or could be his fast walking animation.
At 0:14 he blocks which could be his shielding animation. Right after that he does a 3 slash combo like his one from SSU but without the ground beam. Could be a jab or ftilt.
At 0:20 another potential nair. Basically MK's but on steroids and there's a ground beam upon landing.
At 0:41 an upward stab which could be his utilt. Basically the same as MK's though
At 0:50 the closest I can see this move being is a dsmash. Would make it stand out from Megaman's. Would have to be made smaller of course.
At 1:12 a potential Final Smash. Pattern for the blasts would likely have to be random though so players couldn't avoid it super easily.
At 1:21 a potential jab although it's basically MK's in Sm4sh except with a blade beam.
At 1:23 I can actually see that as a potential neutral special. Fires at an upward angle like Bayonetta's Bullet Climax so you wouldn't be able to camp too well with it except against bigger characters. Would be more suited for attacking airborne opponents. Right after he goes into the air and does the same attack angled downwards so it could function like that if done in the air or it could be like Bayonetta's side special and require an extra control stick movement to make it do that. Right after that he does a purely downward one that also shows that the beams reflect off of floors and presumably walls.
At 1:33 another potential Final Smash although it's basically a ripoff of PK Starstorm.
At 2:09 a potential dash attack where he lunges forward with a stab.
At 2:19 literally Brawl Shuttle Loop right there. Could be an up special if they bother to code in gliding again.
At 2:32 he lies on the ground so there's his 'animation' for when that happens in Smash face down anyways.
At 1:03 a potnetial neutral special or up special. It's Mach Tornado but he quickly goes up before going back down which would make it different from MK's which only slowly goes up if you mash b.
At 1:33 another potential Final Smash. I can see it working like Megaman's where if you enter the range of the vortex, you're taken into a cinematic where GK slashes the heck out of you before launching you.
At 2:52 another potnetial neutral or side special. seems to have slight homing properties since the third beam went up as Kirby jumped.

And that's all I could find out of those videos.
Potential moveset ideas for Galacta Knight who would likely be a Meta Knight clone if he got in.
 

Caryslan

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#57
Celica does not have to be a clone, and I honestly think making her fight like Robin makes no sense.

She does not cast magic from tomes, her sword play seems to be a bigger part of her combat style, and her priestess and princess classes give her access to healing magic.

If done properly, Celica could play radically different from the other two resident magic users in Smash, Robin and Zelda. She could be an aggressive swordswoman who uses magic to close the gap, and also has healing magic, which she can use on teammates.

Imagine how doubles could be changed if you had a character who could freely heal their teammate.
 

Hypercat-Z

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#58
I think it would be kinda interesting to see characters that are clone of characters not belonging to their franchise (like Ganondrof -> Captain Falcon).
For example Braixen as clone of Fox Mc.Cloud, Bubbles from Clu Clu land as clone of Pacman or Silver The Hedgehog as clone of Mewtwo.
 
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#59
I know its unlikely, but I think Malos the main of villain of Xenoblade 2 would be a pretty good idea for a Shulk clone

In his chapter 7 boss fight he does use a Monado and the ending of the game implies that Alvis from the first game is a aegis so it would make sense for him lore wise to have the same moveset as Shulk
 
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Morbi

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#60
I think it would be kinda interesting to see characters that are clone of characters not belonging to their franchise (like Ganondrof -> Captain Falcon).
For example Braixen as clone of Fox Mc.Cloud, Bubbles from Clu Clu land as clone of Pacman or Silver The Hedgehog as clone of Mewtwo.
I am not a huge fan of it myself, but if the character fits, I suppose I am not entirely opposed to it. The inherent issue is Ganondorf never really fit Captain Falcon. So it has turned me off from the idea.
 
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#62
Clones are perfectly fine if they have a different playstyle than their counterpart. The only issue is that Sakurai seems to have no idea how to make good clones. Except for Falco and Ganondorf, all of the clones in the series have either been straight upgrades or downgrades of their originals (Ganondorf is bad for an entirely different reason #BuffTheHeavies). I'd rather just not have clones than get a ton of bad clones again tbh.
 

Ahm Skittish!

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#63
Clones are perfectly fine if they have a different playstyle than their counterpart. The only issue is that Sakurai seems to have no idea how to make good clones. Except for Falco and Ganondorf, all of the clones in the series have either been straight upgrades or downgrades of their originals (Ganondorf is bad for an entirely different reason #BuffTheHeavies). I'd rather just not have clones than get a ton of bad clones again tbh.
I get the Dark Pit and Lucina complaints(first one has almost zero differences, and second one is a straight downgrade), but Dr. Mario plays in a different enough playstyle but also encompasses Melee Mario's moveset for the mos tpart. Toon Link is a very different playstyle too, and isn't a straight upgrade or downgrade anymore. Link got reasonably buffed for 4(not to say he's top tier or anything). Lucas(who's a semi-clone due to the same B moves, and shares a fair amount of similar animations) and Jigglypuff(who is the polar opposite of Wolf, who had remade B moves while she has remade A moves) play highly different despite this. Speaking of, Wolf is yet another case, who is highly different, despite being a retool of Fox. Young Link is not nearly as different as Toon Link, and Roy got highly updated in 4 so he's no longer "hugely worse" and rather balanced this time.
 

#HBC | Red Ryu

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#65
With clones I would look at it from a design perspective.

Would you be able to easily add them to the game without being too similar. Ganon has been getting slowly away from Falcon, but he would need some more work.

Lucina and Marth need a but more to differ between them, Dark pit most likely should be a skin.

It's wait and see at this point, likely E3, where we will see some new content.
 
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#66
Ahm Skittish! Ahm Skittish! I was only talking about regular clones, not semi-clones. Dr. Mario in SSB4 does have a different playstyle, but that's only because there's so much less you can do with him. If you took any other character and just piled on a bunch of weird nerfs with only a slight buff to one attribute, you'd have to use them differently as well, but that's not what I meant by having a different playstyle.
 

Krysco

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#67
With clones I would look at it from a design perspective.

Would you be able to easily add them to the game without being too similar. Ganon has been getting slowly away from Falcon, but he would need some more work.

Lucina and Marth need a but more to differ between them, Dark pit most likely should be a skin.

It's wait and see at this point, likely E3, where we will see some new content.
Minor thing but one of the last patches Sm4sh got actually made Ganondorf more like Captain Falcon by making his nair be a weak first hit that leads into a stronger second hit when before, Ganon's was just 2 strong hits. This also made nair less safe to land with since the first hit wasn't safe on hit. Other aspects like Warlock Punch getting super armor and all of the changes made from Melee to Brawl have slightly made him different from Falcon but not enough imo.
 

Superyoshiom

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#68
I had no issue with Brawl’s clones, as they all played differently from their original characters in meaningful ways. It’s these new clones in Smash 4 that really grind my gears. I don’t have a problem with semi clones like Toon Link and Falco, but near-identical clones should just be their alternate costumes.
 
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#69
It'd be nice to have a game where it's clone-free, a game where clones end up being palette swaps or simply discarded. A clone should only be a clone if it's a character who is a doppelgänger from a series like TLoZ (Dark Link) or Metroid (SA-X or Dark Samus). But, I bet even these characters would have slightly different movesets, not simply different properties of the same moveset or different appearances of the same moveset. (I'm looking at you Lucina and Dark Pit.)
 
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Wyoming

Connery, Sean
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#70
Possible clones I can imagine:

Daisy for Peach - same base could be used easily. Move set may not fit Daisy, but add some flower petals instead of hearts and perhaps Toadette instead for Toad for a laugh and you'd have something that fits her enough.

Funky for DK - both are roughly the same size, and Funky doesn't have a lot to work with to begin with.

Blood Falcon for Falcon - goes without saying. Just change his flame color. Honestly surprised he wasn't an alt to begin with in Sm4sh.

:pichumelee: goes without saying...with Pikachu's new thunder, it'd be further decloned from Pikachu to begin with.

Dixie as a Diddy clone is a non-starter for me. It would be a waste.
 

Diddy Kong

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#72
I also really like clones. And in many ways, maybe there won't be a newcomer form the same gaming franchise it it isn't for a clome addition.

Say Pikmin. Each new character WILL be extremely similar to Olimar.

Then Yoshi. Yarn Yoshi could be a good idea for a more aerial based, light weight Yoshi with some personal quirks.

Galactia Knight could be closely based on Meta Knight but more powerful and potential far heavier.

Funky Kong indeed is a good choice as a Donkey Kong clone but with better recovery.

Shadow Mewtwo, a even more glass canon Mewtwo with crazy range buffs too?

Impa at the very worst could be based on Sheik, but maybe stronger and play more defensive (think Melee Fox and Falco). Semi clone also would work nicely.

Toon Zelda to preserve Zelda's classic moveset if it changes up majorly.

Celica could be based on Robin a bit, but probably faster, lighter and with a self damaging gimmick on magic attacks. Bit of a Ness / Lucas idea.

Alm could be the 'inbetween' Marth and Ike character, Echoes really writes of a great workable moveset with his animations. Or be a semi clone of Ike of sorts, but faster and maybe a tipper mechanic closely related to Marth. Cause you know, Alm has a Falchion most similar to Marth.

Lol even OWAIN / Odin Dark could be a nice and cool clone of Robin. He's sort of relevant as well.

Chrom could share a spot with Lugified Lucina? But in Awakening, Lucina's animations match Marth's more. A faster lighter Ike is ALSO a possibility with Chrom.

Dixie Kong as a Diddy semi clone. No full clone either. Plus she could have unique grab mechanics similar to Donkey Kong.

Call me crazy, but Blaziken as a Captain Falcon clone or semi-clone could also still work beautifully.

Slippy Toad as a mid weight and even a slower Falco clone. Imagine his Blaster working like a mix of Falco and Diddy's neutral B. Token joke character.

Snorlax? Super heavy weight Jigglypuff clone. All animations are the same with Jigglypuff but drastic different stats. Rest works as a healing move. Up B is Dedede's but lower jump. Pound is named Mega Punch. Roll Out is mostly the same.

Urban Champion as a Little Mac semi clone.

Mach Rider as Captain Falcon with a Side b that's resembling Wario's Bike. Also not a fast runner and not as strong as Falcon.

I say all these characters are rather fun additions and aren't very time consuming. Guess that counts in most people's opinion as 'clone'.
 

Mafew

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#73
Possible clones: The baby versions of Mario characters, Hero of time (Ocarina of time link), raichu, X (From Mega Man), Ms. pac man, Metal Sonic (Honesty if they did metal sonic it would probably be a semi clone), And dark Samus

Ok they probably won’t do any of these characters, maybe Metal sonic, but probably not
 

PSIGuy

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#74
Clones are lazy last-minute additions to the roster, so I don't think they really need to be planned far in advance. If anything, I hope old clones are lower priority than 'new clones' (and clones in general lower priority to any other character). If you have a Springtron palette on Spring Man, and you have Lucina as a Marth palette, go with Springtron for the clone. Neither of them are that exciting but at least one's kind of new.
 

splat

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#75
I think it would be kinda interesting to see characters that are clone of characters not belonging to their franchise (like Ganondrof -> Captain Falcon).
I really doubt we'll get anything like this, seeing how Smash 4 seemed to revolve around unique movesets for the most part, with only a handful of costumes getting buffed to playable status 'as the dessert for players'.



That being said, Baby Mario & Baby Luigi would fit very well as Ice Climber clones. Just going by Partners in Time, we've already seen them wield hammers for the basic attacks. Double Fire Fowers could be used for Ice Shot, Drill Bros. could easily be repurposed to Squall Hammer (as seen above), Baby Spin can be altered to function similar to Belay, and perhaps they'd be able to cry a stream of tears for Blizzard (or use the fire flowers for this one and have them pop green shells/miniature Chain Chomps for Ice Shot).
 
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#76
(oh lord I completely forgot I already posted here, disregard this post I made a more complete one with my updated opinions)

hmm first of all I can say I'm rly against two things:
1. Cross-franchise clones: To this day I think Ganondorf's moveset is kinda ridiculous even though it did get better with each game
2. Clones that share the character slot: this makes no sense. The slightest different attribute is enough to give any character their own slot

But some ideas for clones I have:
-Celica as a semiclone of Robin
-Daisy as a semiclone of Peach
-Alph being separated from Olimar and getting Rock Pikmin (wasn't it planned to happen at one point?)
-I would love if Doc, Lucina and Pittoo got Luigified too

But rly clones are last minute additions. I guess there's not much we can think about since they might happen at a blink of an eye, say it's just to pad out the roster (Melee) or have some extras that originally were costumes (SSB4)
 
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#77
I don't really mind clones so long as their more like Brawl's clones where they have at least some different move animations and attributes that gives them a different way to play from their counterpart. I don't really want to see anything like smash 4's clones though, I felt that was a step down even compared to Melee's clones.

So long as their just low priority as they've pretty much always been for the most part, I don't really have too much issues with them.
 
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#79
just sayin' if :4darkpit::4lucina: and :4drmario: have the audacity to show their faces in 5 then :younglinkmelee: and :pichumelee: need to pop back up too
If Tink's still around, I wouldn't get my hopes up...

Also, I'd gladly welcome Doc since he actually has an identity compared to them.
If anything, those 3 just share a corner with Pacman on the selection screen.
 

BrytonJ

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#80
A clone would be a really easy way to put in another Punch-Out character. You could easily make a heavier, stronger version of Mac and make them King Hippo or Mike Tyson Mr. Dream. Lil Mac is a really unique character so it would kind of made sense if they wanted to play around with his kit a little bit in that way.

(As a side note, did you know that according to the Punch-Out wiki Mr.Dream is from Dreamland? Does that mean... could he be... Kirby's father??!)
 
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