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Elma for Smash Ultimate: Strength comes from experience. That’s true on any planet.

Calamitas

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I'm not giving up hope until all DLC characters are revealed. With how Elma was marketed in 2, no X music in the game, and - if I remember correctly? - X not even being listed as a source game in Ultimate, there's still enough pointing towards her. With that last point especially, they could easily pull a "Super Smash Bros. x Xenoblade Chronicles X" thing.
 
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[Maple]

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I'm not giving up hope until all DLC characters are revealed. With how Elma was marketed in 2, no X music in the game, and - if I remember correctly? - X not even being listed as a source game in Ultimate, there's still enough pointing towards her. With that last point especially, they could easily pull a "Super Smash Bros. x Xenoblade Chronicles X" thing.
Do you have a source for this? If its true than X is considered a different franchise which might be a good sign.
 

[Maple]

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Honestly I learned one thing. There is not a single rule. Speculation is useless at this point. Everyone can be here third or first party. Yes Reggie talked about "unexpected" but he is a guys who makes marketing. Of course he will not come and say "oh you know all the DLC are going to suck so you better not be hype".

Everything is unexpected cause there is no rules. Remember after Ridley and K Rool everyone expected popular newcomers like Isaac and we got Incineroar and Isabelle. So now after Joker its useless to say that the DLC are all going to be third party.

The "leakers" don't know anything about DLC

Right now I'm tired of speculation. Its useless and unproductive
 
D

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Man I'm slowly losing hope for any of my wanted characters lol (not that any of them really had a chance lmao)

Oh well maybe in wave 2
 

[Maple]

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Its not over! Everything is possible. I think its just important to be open mind to anything and to not have high expectations.
 
D

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Its not over! Everything is possible. I think its just important to be open mind to anything and to not have high expectations.
True, it could have just been PR talk. The main thing that worries me is that P5 released in late 2016 which hurts the whole "DLC being developed around the project plan" theory which would place the list of characters at around 2015 when Elma was super relevant. And there's no way in hell that they would choose Elma over Rex considering XC2 is more popular and relevant, and Rex got deconfirmed meaning that Elma might be ****ed.

I'll still hold out hope, but I'm gonna keep mu expectations low.
 

shocktarts17

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Honestly I learned one thing. There is not a single rule. Speculation is useless at this point. Everyone can be here third or first party. Yes Reggie talked about "unexpected" but he is a guys who makes marketing. Of course he will not come and say "oh you know all the DLC are going to suck so you better not be hype".

Everything is unexpected cause there is no rules. Remember after Ridley and K Rool everyone expected popular newcomers like Isaac and we got Incineroar and Isabelle. So now after Joker its useless to say that the DLC are all going to be third party.

The "leakers" don't know anything about DLC

Right now I'm tired of speculation. Its useless and unproductive
People keep saying this but Joker doesn't break any rules that Cloud didn't already break since SMT also has a long history on Nintendo consoles. And if we end up getting Persona 5 on Switch like some people are hoping it will end up making a ton of sense.
 

Nonno Umby

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Honestly I learned one thing. There is not a single rule. Speculation is useless at this point. Everyone can be here third or first party. Yes Reggie talked about "unexpected" but he is a guys who makes marketing. Of course he will not come and say "oh you know all the DLC are going to suck so you better not be hype".

Everything is unexpected cause there is no rules. Remember after Ridley and K Rool everyone expected popular newcomers like Isaac and we got Incineroar and Isabelle. So now after Joker its useless to say that the DLC are all going to be third party.

The "leakers" don't know anything about DLC

Right now I'm tired of speculation. Its useless and unproductive
THIS.
It's also quite likely that Reggie doesn't even know the actual fighters, because why would he? He isn't neighter a developer nor a member of the localiziation team. He is a businessman and a spokesman.

But you are right that people are desperately trying to find patterns and rules to this, when there really aren't. Smash For DLC weren't just veterans even if Mewtwo and Lucas were the first ones, not all the Ultimate newcomers were super duper hype inducing like Ridley and KRool.

And I'm just tired of this. Now that the game is out I don't even want to speculate anymore about Smash.

True, it could have just been PR talk. The main thing that worries me is that P5 released in late 2016 which hurts the whole "DLC being developed around the project plan" theory which would place the list of characters at around 2015 when Elma was super relevant. And there's no way in hell that they would choose Elma over Rex considering XC2 is more popular and relevant, and Rex got deconfirmed meaning that Elma might be ****ed.

I'll still hold out hope, but I'm gonna keep mu expectations low.
While the game was released in late 2016, it still was confirmed and known to the pubblic. Remember that what Sakura said that doomed Rex was that he wasn't announced when they were picking the roster (and potentially the DLC), so he could have been chosen even back in 2015 as the Persona 5 protagonist, especially since they wouldn't have started development on him until much later.
 
D

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THIS.
It's also quite likely that Reggie doesn't even know the actual fighters, because why would he? He isn't neighter a developer nor a member of the localiziation team. He is a businessman and a spokesman.

But you are right that people are desperately trying to find patterns and rules to this, when there really aren't. Smash For DLC weren't just veterans even if Mewtwo and Lucas were the first ones, not all the Ultimate newcomers were super duper hype inducing like Ridley and KRool.

And I'm just tired of this. Now that the game is out I don't even want to speculate anymore about Smash.


While the game was released in late 2016, it still was confirmed and known to the pubblic. Remember that what Sakura said that doomed Rex was that he wasn't announced when they were picking the roster (and potentially the DLC), so he could have been chosen even back in 2015 as the Persona 5 protagonist, especially since they wouldn't have started development on him until much later.
Yeah but I kinda doubt that Sakurai reserved a slot for a third-party that didn't even come out yet. That kind of behavior is only reserved for Pokemon, considering Pokemon are always guaranteed safe, loved picks since the games sell a ****ton anyways. I just don't see Nintendo taking that risk with anything other then Pokemon.
 

Nonno Umby

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Yeah but I kinda doubt that Sakurai reserved a slot for a third-party that didn't even come out yet. That kind of behavior is only reserved for Pokemon, considering Pokemon are always guaranteed safe, loved picks since the games sell a ****ton anyways. I just don't see Nintendo taking that risk with anything other then Pokemon.
Well Persona is a big series. And maybe the slot was saved as "TP character", and then they went with Joker after seeing how big Persona 5 became. Remember that since development wouldn't have started until after the main game they could even do licensing at a later date.
 
D

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Well Persona is a big series. And maybe the slot was saved as "TP character", and then they went with Joker after seeing how big Persona 5 became. Remember that since development wouldn't have started until after the main game they could even do licensing at a later date.
I pray, man. Elma is the only semi-realistic character I have left who didn't die
 

FrostShock

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Honestly I learned one thing. There is not a single rule. Speculation is useless at this point. Everyone can be here third or first party. Yes Reggie talked about "unexpected" but he is a guys who makes marketing. Of course he will not come and say "oh you know all the DLC are going to suck so you better not be hype".

Everything is unexpected cause there is no rules. Remember after Ridley and K Rool everyone expected popular newcomers like Isaac and we got Incineroar and Isabelle. So now after Joker its useless to say that the DLC are all going to be third party.

The "leakers" don't know anything about DLC

Right now I'm tired of speculation. Its useless and unproductive
True enough. The only safe bet for the entirety of Smash Ultimate's speculation were the Inklings, and they were revealed before we had a chance to speculate. I remember everyone saying that Rex and Spring Man were "locks" and now neither of them are in. All bets are off.

It's pretty exciting, actually. Virtually any character you can think of has a chance. That includes Elma, of course, but even guys like the Doom Slayer are looking like less of a pipe dream.
 
D

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So it seems like the "only characters from new franchises" thing was misinformation, and in reality he said "only characters who are new to Smash" i.e. no echos/vets (which we already knew but w/e). Elma still has a chance!
 
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Phoebe3315

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Although the Joker reveal may have hurt Elma's chances, she definitely could be in. If it turns out no Xenoblade X content is in the DLC, but all of it is cool and unique regardless, I'm not going to take it out on Sakurai or anything (his team is putting in so much effort). It'll just make the wait for a port/sequel (when Xenoblade X will hopefully stop being ignored) that much harder.
 

Calamitas

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Do you have a source for this? If its true than X is considered a different franchise which might be a good sign.
I'm pretty sure it was mentioned in this thread before, but I'll try to see if I can find that information in-game.

So it seems like the "only characters from new franchises" thing was misinformation, and in reality he said "only characters who are new to Smash" i.e. no echos/vets (which we already knew but w/e). Elma still has a chance!
Gotta ask though, where's the source on that? Both things, I mean. The thing about characters from new franchises, and that being misinformation.
 

Camc10

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Oh, pack as in character+stage+music. I was thinking pack like season. My bad.
I will bring up that this dlc pass will not fill up the stage list, we will still have 1 more blank spot on the Stage Selection Screen.
Yeah I see but its hard to be positive. Thats mostly why I'm not sure if I'm happy or not with the inclusion of Joker haha. I also think people will have too much expectation after Joker for an unknown character like Elma to be revealed.
Im on the opposite end of that. i think Joker is that big first character to pull everyone in to buying the past. its like with Street Fighter V where they they have the most popular characters at the beginning (Akuma/Sakura) and at the end (Zeku aka Strider/Sagat)

Also, is there anything coming in the future that would allow Sak to more in More Spirits? because Cross and True Form Elma's absence is getting more weird to me as I think about it.
 

Nonno Umby

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Bringing some more hope over here, some people used to belive that Spirits deconfirm characters because each fighter would use an artwork from their original game as the reward for completing Classic Mode with them, therefore if their artwork was already in the game it couldn't be used for a Fighter Spirit.
Well Wii Fit Trainer Fighter Spirit is just her Ultimate Render, so the same could be applied to characters such as Elma.
20181207_224603.jpg


(pardon the potato camera, it was the only one easely avaiable to me).
 
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Camc10

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Bringing some more hope over here, some people used to belive that Spirits deconfirm characters because each fighter would use an artwork from their original game as the reward for completing Classic Mode with them, therefore if their artwork was already in the game it couldn't be used for a Fighter Spirit.
Well Wii Fit Trainer Fighter Spirit is just her Ultimate Render, so the same could be applied to characters such as Elma.
View attachment 182144

(pardon the potato camera, it was the only one easely avaiable to me).
So Cloud, Wii Fit, and the Miis?
 

Nonno Umby

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So Cloud, Wii Fit, and the Miis?
I can personaply confirm only Wii Fit Trainer, and I heard the same for Cloud, but since I'm planning to do all Classic Modes if I find more I will tell you.




EDIT: There is this quite interestibg reference within Persona 5
IMG_20181208_004649_937.jpg

Seems odd to reference a Nintendo series in a Playstation Exclusive. Plus who knows, they might have decided to add Joker quite a while back, and hidden this nod to it as foreshadowing...
Didn't Elma had a similar tease in the Xenoblade 2 DLC, something about what the Sage Nopon said meant "something more"?
 
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Evanpik64

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Happy to know our fears were unfounded
I was under the impression that the Reggie quote was from a press release separate from what he said in the game show, where was the original article claiming Reggie said this? I don't want my dreams shattered just yet
 

RandomAce

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I can personaply confirm only Wii Fit Trainer, and I heard the same for Cloud, but since I'm planning to do all Classic Modes if I find more I will tell you.




EDIT: There is this quite interestibg reference within Persona 5
View attachment 182156
Seems odd to reference a Nintendo series in a Playstation Exclusive. Plus who knows, they might have decided to add Joker quite a while back, and hidden this nod to it as foreshadowing...
Didn't Elma had a similar tease in the Xenoblade 2 DLC, something about what the Sage Nopon said meant "something more"?
Yeah actually:

8F0623B7-341E-493A-BCD1-918D23A4E33B.jpeg

B64ED957-A490-4E09-BAEB-45A1F50759E7.jpeg


I don’t know about you, but this is what made me hopeful for Elma. The fact that they only mentioned Shulk and Elma, and how Nia gave an unanswered question that wasn’t necessary is what give me hopes that they could’ve been teasing Elma in Smash DLC, they referenced Smash before after all, even recently with Mythra’s Censored Outfit. (Also “Everyone” like, Everyone is here?)

Plus, it seems that Elma is a lot more popular than we thought. Despite Elma being added later, she still got a ton of dialogue between the characters, her own boss battle, and even some added lore into how they got here and how Nopon is just a Xenoblade fanboy (our true hero). And when she was revealed, she got a recent resurgence in popularity with the Elma being the popular topic on Twitter that day.

I’m not counting Elma out, it seems like she would be a great character for DLC.
 
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Pallex

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Nothing about Elma's "chances" or whatever change. No X music, No True Elma, Bill's slip-up which he will get fired for it again Caitlin Glass is still being vague. Elma got her own Xenoblade 2 trailer and called "famous", by the Red Cube guys, the toy mech's purpose is still not revealed. Sawano's composing for a unknown project is not revealed yet
https://twitter.com/sawano_nZk/status/979240606177247232
https://www.reddit.com/r/Xenoblade_...ikely_is_it_for_xenobladex_representation_in/
To reiterate:
Alright then, I'm done making the compilation image. I decided to do this based on the "Elma's Advice" tutorials from X, to neatly tie this thematically together, even if it did end up making the individual parts a bit large. I used Nonno Umby Nonno Umby 's argument list for this, though I ordered the points chronologically, rewrote some parts, and added a few bits of my own.

So, first of, as a series of images:


And here it is as a one hecking big image, that is even too big to properly upload on Smash Boards' servers.


If anyone has any further additions/found any typoes/found any other mistakes, let me know so I can feel like a complete and utter idiot correct it.



Rex and Pyra still seems as unlikely as ever, if you ask me. Remember Skye Bennet's statements about not being contacted? If the two character reveal is a Xenoblade one, it could be Elma with Cross/Rook as an Echo Fighter.
Until we get XCX music in smash bros I'm not giving up hope for an XCX character in smash. The moment they patch the music into Smash I'll give up hope. That being said, what if Cross gets in over Elma? While Elma is more popular, it wouldn't be unheard of for Nintendo to add the created character over a fan favorite. Plus Elma does have a spirit, but Cross doesn't.

And I know many people are gonna say "Spirits don't deconfirm a character." Spirits are not the same as trophies. How we get them are different from trophies in the other games.
Piranha Plant has three spirits:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1PXl1nNYPU6m8AQ-PY7Q5yeVnDbazdNB3/view
https://drive.google.com/file/d/13Z73xZZ344LLdK7WgQx4zkVVnOu2k9IS/view
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1dIDWdQxPihWKO2gWbHADrK3QaJPnI0PS/view
So does Wii Fit Trainer, K. Rool, Kirby, Donkey Kong, Daisy, etc. It's only for gameplay.
Also, Elma's true form is still absent. It could be used as a powered up form like others such as Revolver Ocelot changing from his Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater self to his Metal Gear Solid V: The Phantom Pain self. But she is not there for unknown reasons besides being stuck on a whole different planet.

Bringing some more hope over here, some people used to belive that Spirits deconfirm characters because each fighter would use an artwork from their original game as the reward for completing Classic Mode with them, therefore if their artwork was already in the game it couldn't be used for a Fighter Spirit.
Well Wii Fit Trainer Fighter Spirit is just her Ultimate Render, so the same could be applied to characters such as Elma.
View attachment 182144

(pardon the potato camera, it was the only one easely avaiable to me).
Other characters such as Cloud Strife also uses his Smash artwork.
 

Camc10

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Nothing about Elma's "chances" or whatever change. No X music, No True Elma, Bill's slip-up which he will get fired for it again Caitlin Glass is still being vague. Elma got her own Xenoblade 2 trailer and called "famous", by the Red Cube guys, the toy mech's purpose is still not revealed. Sawano's composing for a unknown project is not revealed yet
https://twitter.com/sawano_nZk/status/979240606177247232
https://www.reddit.com/r/Xenoblade_...ikely_is_it_for_xenobladex_representation_in/
To reiterate:



Piranha Plant has three spirits:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1PXl1nNYPU6m8AQ-PY7Q5yeVnDbazdNB3/view
https://drive.google.com/file/d/13Z73xZZ344LLdK7WgQx4zkVVnOu2k9IS/view
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1dIDWdQxPihWKO2gWbHADrK3QaJPnI0PS/view
So does Wii Fit Trainer, K. Rool, Kirby, Donkey Kong, Daisy, etc. It's only for gameplay.
Also, Elma's true form is still absent. It could be used as a powered up form like others such as Revolver Ocelot changing from his Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater self to his Metal Gear Solid V: The Phantom Pain self. But she is not there for unknown reasons besides being stuck on a whole different planet.



Other characters such as Cloud Strife also uses his Smash artwork.
Actually, Those aren't piranha plant, that Petey and a Nipper Plant.
 

RawstyleEevee

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Bringing some more hope over here, some people used to belive that Spirits deconfirm characters because each fighter would use an artwork from their original game as the reward for completing Classic Mode with them, therefore if their artwork was already in the game it couldn't be used for a Fighter Spirit.
Well Wii Fit Trainer Fighter Spirit is just her Ultimate Render, so the same could be applied to characters such as Elma.
View attachment 182144

(pardon the potato camera, it was the only one easely avaiable to me).
As someone who is "researching" this theory, I also know that Robin uses his Smash render. However people already have a counterpoint ready in that the reason WFT and Robin use their Smash renders, is that they don't really have official artwork from their coregames (Robin never had a full artwork in Awakening).

Although I'm still convinced the core aspect of the spirit theory is how the naming is handled of the spirits and the only way to disprove this is if a character who is a spirit at base game uses the same file name of their regular spirit (Elma has to stay Elma) or DLC characters don't get spirits or imo the most likely scenario at this point is that the DLC will be full 3rd party and we will never find closure on this subject(unless Pirahna Plant and Joker give us more enlightment.) I do feel confident to say, that render doesn't matter at this point.

Spirit theory aside, a small advantage Elma has is that X imo counts as a different series so it would forfill the criteria of "New series only for DLC", but the real question is if Nintendo will choose Elma at this point, because there is no denying that she missed some of her best chances already which was basegame, because unlike Rex & Pyra, she had everything in her favour, because she was relevant and she was the character with the best timing to get considerd in the project plan in 2015.

Also unless X2 doesn't happen, Elma still is the most likely Xenoblade character for the next Smash imo, but Takahashi at this point needs to be honest with X fans, because the wait for this game is becoming way to long at this point.
 

PSIGuy

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Elma is also counted as being part of the Xenoblade Chronicles series as a spirit... They don't care to mention X by name but they acknowledge it as being part of the series in a roundabout way.
 

Nonno Umby

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As someone who is "researching" this theory, I also know that Robin uses his Smash render. However people already have a counterpoint ready in that the reason WFT and Robin use their Smash renders, is that they don't really have official artwork from their coregames (Robin never had a full artwork in Awakening).

Although I'm still convinced the core aspect of the spirit theory is how the naming is handled of the spirits and the only way to disprove this is if a character who is a spirit at base game uses the same file name of their regular spirit (Elma has to stay Elma) or DLC characters don't get spirits or imo the most likely scenario at this point is that the DLC will be full 3rd party and we will never find closure on this subject(unless Pirahna Plant and Joker give us more enlightment.) I do feel confident to say, that render doesn't matter at this point.

Spirit theory aside, a small advantage Elma has is that X imo counts as a different series so it would forfill the criteria of "New series only for DLC", but the real question is if Nintendo will choose Elma at this point, because there is no denying that she missed some of her best chances already which was basegame, because unlike Rex & Pyra, she had everything in her favour, because she was relevant and she was the character with the best timing to get considerd in the project plan in 2015.

Also unless X2 doesn't happen, Elma still is the most likely Xenoblade character for the next Smash imo, but Takahashi at this point needs to be honest with X fans, because the wait for this game is becoming way to long at this point.
There are other non full artworks featured as Spirits, like EVA's and even Simon Belmont's (it lacks his feet).Besides, they could have used the artworks from Fire Emblem Warriors or Heroes.
EDIT Also Garon is an half body artwork
20181208_125937.jpg


The naming of the Spirits isn that big of a deal since they already broke that rule with Mewtwo and Lucas back in Smash For, since Spirits are a replacememts for Trophies.

Also I feel it is way too soon for judging how the DLC are going to be handled. Just because Mewtwo and Lucas were the first announced DLC for Smash For didn't mean't that they were only veterans. It's even possible that Joker might be the only TP and they announced him first on order to make as many people as possible hyped for "what's next?!" and buy the Fighter Pass already, well before knowing it's actual content.

Apparently the "New series" was just an error, Reggie just said that the characters will be "new to the series", so not veterans or echoes (which we already knew, but that's PR talk).

About Elma and X I totally agree. But I feel that the new Xenoblade game that they are developing will be in fact X2, and that would just be more going for our Colonel.
 
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RawstyleEevee

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Elma is also counted as being part of the Xenoblade Chronicles series as a spirit... They don't care to mention X by name but they acknowledge it as being part of the series in a roundabout way.
I believe that stuff is debunked, because Mytrha's spirit also just says Xenoblade series(have yet to aquire a XB2 spirit to 100% confirm it for you guys)
 

Camc10

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I believe that stuff is debunked, because Mytrha's spirit also just says Xenoblade series(have yet to aquire a XB2 spirit to 100% confirm it for you guys)
Only partly. There are a bunch of spirits the just say they are from the Xenoblade Series, but Xeno X itself still isn't seen in the code will all the titles of games used in Smash.
 

Nonno Umby

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Only partly. There are a bunch of spirits the just say they are from the Xenoblade Series, but Xeno X itself still isn't seen in the code will all the titles of games used in Smash.
There is a list of these games? I would like to check it myself...
 

Abade

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There is a list of these games? I would like to check it myself...
Jacien said:
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/234547-super-smash-bros-ultimate/77243405
I keep on seeing people say that there's Rare Ltd Spirits from Jet Force Gemini and Blast Corps in the game, but this is not true. There are no Rare spirts. HOWEVER, those two games are listed in a separate file related to Spirits.

First of all, here's my pastebin of all the Spirits: https://pastebin.com/NCi8Af0N

This was pulled from what's called an MSBT file, which is basically where text used in the game is stored. This specific file was from 0x8bf78808.msbt, which is a list of all Spirit names in English.

Now after this file, there's one called 0x8bfac778.msbt, which is a list of many game titles. What these are used for is listing the game of origin for a Spirit.

Here is a list of all game titles that spirits reference: https://pastebin.com/aZxKwGHJ
Some of the titles repeat, cause they're considered a "series" instead of a specific game. Like "The Legend of Zelda" appears twice. So I edited in the path names to show which ones are considered "Series".

As an example, look at this screenshot of a Geno Spirit Battle. https://imgur.com/m4MzbJt
Notice how it says "Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars"? It's pulling from that list I linked.

So now, what we're wondering is why is Jet Force Gemini and Blast Corps still on the list of game titles, if there's no Spirits? Was it a mistake, do to someone not realizing those franchises are third-party now so they were removed? Or was it scrubbing to hide potential DLC updates? A sign of things to come?

Either way, all I know is that I'm very sleepy right now.
 

Calamitas

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Germany
Interesting. I'll keep any eye open for that for when I actually encounter an X Spirit in battle.
Speaking of which, has someone actually found any of them yet? So far I got Fiora, Reyn and Mòrag, but absolutely no one from X.
 

PSIGuy

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 27, 2014
Messages
1,967
Location
Australia
I've encountered Lin, Lao and Tatsu. Elma and Formula continue to evade me. On their battle page it just said "From the Xenoblade Chronicles series" instead of "From Xenoblade Chronicles X", and I know they list singular games when it's appropriate. And considering some of the games included (Archaic Sealed Heat? Make 10: A Journey of Numbers? Looksley's Line Up?) it's bizarre they couldn't add a single text line for Xenoblade Chronicles X, especially when it includes 5 spirits and the games I listed have one each.
 

Calamitas

Smash Champion
Joined
Aug 17, 2018
Messages
2,689
Location
Germany
I've encountered Lin, Lao and Tatsu. Elma and Formula continue to evade me. On their battle page it just said "From the Xenoblade Chronicles series" instead of "From Xenoblade Chronicles X", and I know they list singular games when it's appropriate. And considering some of the games included (Archaic Sealed Heat? Make 10: A Journey of Numbers? Looksley's Line Up?) it's bizarre they couldn't add a single text line for Xenoblade Chronicles X, especially when it includes 5 spirits and the games I listed have one each.
What character is used for Lao? Dark Pit? Chrom?
 

Flyboy

Smash Hero
Joined
Aug 26, 2010
Messages
5,281
Location
Dayton, OH
The Lin fight is Daisy on Shadow Moses. She starts with a drill and has ROB and Mega Man on her team.
 
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