Editorial: Thoughts On The Strength And Growth Of Smash

[MonkeyArms]

Better question: Why don't you accept the fact that Melee is a succesful game and leave Melee fans alone? Jesus I wonder if you even read the article -_-

I did. At least most of it anyway.
I am by no means messing with any fans of the game, I'm just saying its really overrated for what it is. This is my opinion, and its not an attack.

 

[J.P]

I did. At least most of it anyway.
I am by no means messing with any fans of the game, I'm just saying its really overrated for what it is. This is my opinion, and its not an attack.

Ok, so now you are shielding under the "it's my opinion" mantra even tho you pretty much stated it as a fact. Maybe instead of randomly attacking Melee (I know you said it wasn't an attack but it sounded like one) you could provide arguments of why it's an overrated game in your opinion.

 

[MonkeyArms]

Ok, so now you are shielding under the "it's my opinion" mantra even tho you pretty much stated it as a fact. Maybe instead of randomly attacking Melee (I know you said it wasn't an attack but it sounded like one) you could provide arguments of why it's an overrated game in your opinion.

Its really my opinion, I was just asking why melee got so popular.
Liking something that is overrated is completely logical. I play melee, I'm just saying its overrated for the sole reason of thousands of people going crazy over less than half of the games content, which is why I see it as overrated. Melee is by no means a bad game, its just people act like its the only good fighting competitive game and the developers intended it to be that way, when the reality of it is melee is a beautiful accident.

 

[J.P]

Its really my opinion, I was just asking why melee got so popular.

No you didn't ask that, you asked:

Why is melee so freaking overrated lol.

This not only comes as rude but it also states itself as a plain fact as if it was the absolute truth. Everyone percieved it in that way, that's why me and other people replied as we did and that's why you got a warning. You may or may not have intended to sound that way I don't know and I honestly don't care but you should think how to say something you think before posting it or things like this can happen.

 

[MonkeyArms]

No you didn't ask that, you asked:


This not only comes as rude but it also states itself as a plain fact as if it was the absolute truth. Everyone percieved it in that way, that's why me and other people replied as we did and that's why you got a warning. You may or may not have intended to sound that way I don't know and I honestly don't care but you should think how to say something you think before posting it or things like this can happen.

I asked that while stating my opinion in there. And the fact that I got a warning for it was stupid, because I was not breaking any rules whatsoever. You can't report me for "trolling" with a post like that.
You melee lovers see me asking a question containing my negative opinion in it "as a fact" and decide to report me on it. This is about as stupid as reporting someone for asking "Why is Diddy top tier."

 

[LiteralGrill]

I asked that while stating my opinion in there. And the fact that I got a warning for it was stupid, because I was not breaking any rules whatsoever. You can't report me for "trolling" with a post like that.

I would guess it was inflammatory and generally not written in a polite nature almost like trolling, and was probably reported and you got an infraction due to rule 2. You can express your opinions, I'm cool with that, just do so in a polite manner and no one will be bothering you.

 

[MonkeyArms]

I would guess it was inflammatory and generally not written in a polite nature almost like trolling, and was probably reported and you got an infraction due to rule 2. You can express your opinions, I'm cool with that, just do so in a polite manner and no one will be bothering you.

The problem is I didn't troll. A troll is more than just one post. I never said: Melee players are bad. or even: Melee sucks. Which btw, people don't get reported for saying that and I get reported for saying "Why is melee overrated."
"Why. Is. Melee. Overrated?"
Does that sound like trolling to you?

And for the record, I'm the one getting trolled if anyone right now.

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

Melee may have been shunned by the likes of the SF community, but I doubt a current, die hard SF fan has ever uttered the words "Trash 4". I used to play Melee and PM, but being shunned by my previous communities for playing Smash 4 is not fun, and definitely not the same feeling.

That said, the turnout at this year's CEO and EVO are promising for both represented games.

 

[LiteralGrill]

The problem is I didn't troll. A troll is more than just one post. I never said: Melee players are bad. or even: Melee sucks. Which btw, people don't get reported for saying that and I get reported for saying "Why is melee overrated."

While this is ridiculously derailing the conversation, you said "Why is melee so freaking overrated lol." This creates a MUCH different inflection. Either way this is not a good way to word things. "I think Melee is overated here is why" would have lead to a much more appropriate responwe. They way you wrote it provokes fans of the series, hence the potential of trolling. You can always contact a moderator if you would like more explanation.

Now, can we get back to the actual subject of the editorial please?

 

[Thor]

For a while it used to just be Melee people crapping all over Brawl [and only some of them, others played both and were rather supportive].

Now it's fans of [insert game] crapping on [insert game not previously used].

It's so irritating [and saddening] that not only did some people not learn from mistakes, but then tried to take the trouble and make it double instead of making amends. Sometimes I swear half this site is Team Rocket, burning bridges [and maybe trying to steal Axe???] instead of actually making Smash stronger as a whole.

Instead of bringing someone else's game down, bring yours up. If everyone did that, there'd be no Brawl/Melee fights, no Smash4/Brawl fights, and no Smash4/Melee fights [and no 64/X fights, although I don't see those]. There'd just be people focusing on making the communities stronger, which would benefit everyone.

*64 players seem mostly inoculated from this as far as I can tell, owing either to my limited experiences or perhaps it's actually the case. If so, I'd guess it's due to the extreme punish game combined with a very defensive neutral game leading to a defensive but very intense meta, where most people respect either [or both] aspect(s).

 

[DuskMarthWater]

MonkeyArms. You are digging a giant hole for yourself. Melee is not overrated; it is SUPPORTED by a HUGE number of people that LOVE the game. I'm glad you like Sm4sh, so go SUPPORT your game. Nobody actually cares if you think Melee is overrated; least of all the Melee community.

I loved this article. I have seen a great deal of the Sm4sh community ragging as hard as they can on the Melee community, as if bringing down Melee will somehow magically make Sm4sh better. That is childish and naíve. So many accuse the Melee community of being hardened, calloused, and rude, when in reality it is the people doing the accusing that are showing the calloused insensitivity and damaging an otherwise wonderful community that spans MULTIPLE smash games. Sm4sh has never had to fight for anything the way that Melee has had to fight; it is not surprising that the community is somewhat complacent, and just wishes that an elusive "someone" will step up, take the reins, and better the gaming environment. Instead, we have people like Zero stating "where is the MIOM equivalent", when, in fact, it is people like Zero, who have the resources, that should be going out and DOING these things, maybe not personally but certainly giving the financial and inspirational support necessary to galvanize others, not just talking about them and hoping someone else will do it for them and make their game great so that they can keep being a top player.

To quote a particular part of the article:

...the one and only comparison you will ever need to make with Melee to be successful. They are out doing instead of looking back over their shoulder or side to side for approval. There was a time when Melee not only wasn't accepted by the fighting game community, but was demonized and shunned. They played the game they loved, grew among adversity, and now are such a powerful force they cannot be ignored.

I have yet to see the energy described here, anywhere in the Sm4sh community. And that is sad.

 

[kinbobbobkin]

Very interesting article.

IMO, I think everybody should have a right to play whatever Smash game they want and leave what they don't like alone. I feel like that some fans want to make peace to the community, but others want to cause a ruckus(especially on the tournament videos on Youtube).

 

[RanserSSF4]

loved this article!

IMO, people should play whatever smash game they like and leave others they hate alone. i just want the community to get along already, but i honestly don't see it happening at all

i love melee, but i'm starting to hate its community. i honestly feel that the majority of the community are not only toxic, but some are elitists and insult other players who play different games. it feels like they're hypocrites in a way where IF WE support their scene/game, we get respect, but if we play another game they hate... or in this case, not "melee," we get disrespect, s***ted on, or insulted.

i know i will get criticised or whatever for saying that, but it's true! luckily, smash 4 now has their own news website

 

[Chris Sifniotis]

@ LiteralGrill Eloquent. A very well written piece.

It's funny really. I remember first joining the forums however long ago, almost immediately I found this reverence to Melee, and that in turn made me want to find a way to get it - apart from Project M Melee is the one Smash game I've never owned or played. As a result until I finally get Melee the game is placed on a very high pedestal in my mind; it's the game that according to sources invigorated the competitive community. I can only imagine that advocates of Melee consider it the holy grail largely for that reason.

I don't really have a favorite Smash as such, I currently play Smash 4, own Brawl and Smash 4 and have previously owned and played Smash 64. I do prefer Brawl and Smash 4 over Smash 64 but I don't dislike it, and I like to hear the Smash 64 community doing well. It should do well, it's representative of a unique idea at its time and the Smash community ought to remember its heritage. Between the recent games I do prefer Smash 4 over Brawl, but again I don't have any dislike or disinterest in Brawl.

I believe that all Smash is great fun to play, and I'm certain that when I get Melee that perception won't change at all. I also believe that demonizing of any kind is neither constructive in, or helpful for the growth of a community.

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

Really good article SmashCapps. Your best so far.

I've been in the melee scene since 2006 and I remember when it was WAY smaller, and we built our community on the hype of extremely bad quality videos of people filming CRTs while Isai and Ken played their epic matches.

It took a long time to grow, Wife used to make videos showing the tournament scene and roadtrips and whatnot just for fun and he was one of the few, now you see all kinds of pictures and videos from every event.

Good things take time. Smash 4 players that have been in the community for awhile will understand this... unfortunately a good chunk of smash 4 players are new to the community, and don't understand that smash 4 can't become as big as melee overnight.

 

[HeadSchott]

I haven't ever competed in a tournament before, and the divide between versions is one of the main reasons (that and lately I just haven't had time to practice enough to compete). I realize everyone has their preference of which version they have been playing, but when harmful words are exchanged over it, it's extremely frustrating and I for one don't want to be around people who are bad mouthing one of the games I deeply love. I truly enjoy playing ALL versions of Smash Bros, so for someone to argue with me over which version is just annoying and petty.

 

[Purin a.k.a. José]

How I didn't see that?! Nice article. As much as we want Smash 4 to get big, we can't expect everything to come in less than a year. And, things, as big as they get, they change. Melee changed from small to big (MLG), from big to smaller (Brawl beginning), from smaller to medium-sized (back when Mango-kun appeared and Wombo Combo happened), from medium to gigantic (EVO 2013!!!!)! Smash 4 is a great game, but it may be forgotten like many great games if we don't have the passion like many players had for Melee. We can't force ourselves to make the game grow like Melee, but we can get inspiration by the history of Melee!

 

[Fig Newton]

I have been seeing this ideology and thought process that Smash 4 should be given the resources that Melee currently has under its belt. There are several people with a mindset similar to Zero (however I will be using him as an example seeing how he is the prominent figure here), but I think they are being spoiled, somewhat desperate for wanting the Smash 4 community to be as large as Melee is.

My first concerns come from when Zero posted on twitter saying he wants a MIOM for Smash 4. From those strings of posts during those several days at time, he sounded a bit desperate and annoyed that despite his efforts to want the community to grow (which to some extent can be seen as hypocritical after those comments he made against US players, JPN players, and Falcon mains).

This is proven when he immediately questioned about where's Smash 4's equivalent to Melee It On Me. MIOM was created and design with the intentional purpose to bring information and discussion for Melee during a time where Melee was dying to the point that it could have ended years ago. Smash 4 is far from dying despite the internal quarrels between 2 stock 6 minutes vs 3 stock 8 minutes or Customs vs No Customs. The Smash 4 community will only continue to grow because it's the installment that is the most accessible for players to start their competitive career in Smash and it's because of that the community will not die out in the near future.

Further more, I was speaking with several of my friends online and one of them mentioned that Zero, when you look at his core philosophy and mindset when considering Smash 4's scene, really is only cares for himself. Backing up this claim is that Zero is becomes very defensive when he is being spoke about and generally only would help out the community if it means that he gets the most glory from it. Building a community isn't about who does the most effort or what they do for the community. Building the community is about expanded the game to bigger and better numbers, venues, and audiences. If Zero is considered the leader for the Smash 4 community, he isn't doing a swell job at it.

 

[ssbMars]

I think that one of the (mostly legitimate) reasons for the comparison between the games, and communities, is that many fans are intertwined into most of, if not all, of the Smash communities. I tend to play Melee, Project M, and Sm4sh regularly. If/when I get a functional N64 controller (both my controllers are broken from playing too much Sm64sh, lol), I'll probably pick Sm64sh back up too. Usually I'll switch between two of the games per day. For instance I played Sm4sh and Melee yesterday, for >1hr each.

When you move between these games this easily, the communities tend to blur together and you stop having much of an issue with comparing Melee to Sm4sh. I'm not trying to push for #oneunit or anything, but hear me out; in any community, the identity of the commmunity as a whole is created by the individuals within. When the individuals aren't limiting themselves to a single community, we're gonna see some interconnectedness and a bit of comparison.

I'm not saying that this is good or bad, but I'm fairly certain that it's a thing.

In a completely separate clause, Smash 4 is most definitely and undeniably piggybacking off of the success of Melee and Project M (and Sm64sh, by extension). Of course with each new installment there will be fans who are completely new to the Smash scene. For everyone else though, we're playing Sm4sh because we liked the previous games. I'm not saying this to try to discredit Sm4sh's success; it's a great game in its own right and I enjoy playing it. However the community wasn't created in its own right. Sm4sh was assimilated by the existing community. Of course it will continue to distinguish itself over time. There will be many new members as well as members who don't cross over to other Smash communities. But every Smash community has its roots. I don't see that as an unhealthy thing.

 

[Phoenix502]

it's certainly understandable that some Sm4sh players would express some level of negativity at scenes of ther games like PM and Melee.

See, I have a distaste towards Melee, predominantly because Smash 4 and PM spoiled me on character diversity, and so I have a very hard time enjoying top tiered mirror matches... player tactics regardless, it's still Fox/Falco/Shiek/etc, no matter what way you slice it... no Link, no Mario, not even someone like Pikachu or Doc, nobody but the top tiers fighting for the money.

the two closest scenes to me are Melee in Pensacola, and Project M in Panama City, and I'm very envious... I can play PM, but I've grown fond of Smash 4, and there's maybe one or two other folks who play Sm4sh in the area, so I'm left feeling kinda lonely...

 

[SuaveChaser]

And this is why Brawl/SSB4 players hate Melee players.
They can never be pleased so long as there isn't wavedashing, l canceling and a whole bunch of other criteria.
They selfishly set their standards so high because they're afraid of change.
Report me. Give me an infraction for all I care, but this is exactly how I feel about statements like this. You all are no better.

I play brawl and smash 4 as well lol. Brawl players are just senstive cornballs. Always playing the victim for everything.

 

[SuaveChaser]

you took the bait ...idiot

bait with bait.

 

[Smasher-LTIMT]

I like all Smash games up to dat!e I started With Melee, never got to try Smash 64, but I really want to try it! Smash Bros. Melee started Super Smash Bros. For me, Smash Bros Brawl had the bestbest game modes, and my fav characters (Lucas, who is back, Wolf, Snake, Squirtle, and Ice Climbers) Super Smash Bros. 3ds is where I play online! Smash WiiU is mostly with family and friends (Each has a purpose for me!) I am trying to tell fans what you said! We need to work together as a whole team to bring Super Smash Bros. More fame, but people misunderstand it each time I say it...... I say "I started with Super SmashSmash Bros. MeleeMelee, it is special to me, but I don't play it anymore, Sadly.... I play Smash Bros. Brawl and Smash Bros. 3ds and WiiU Now" the reason I can't is cause my copy of Super Smash Bros. Melee messed up, it won't run in our Wii Or GameCube... Put it in, go through the intro, get to where it says "Super Smash Bros. Melee! Press Start" I press start then "the game disc cannot be read! Open the Disc cover" I can't remember exactly what it says, since last time I had it running was the beginning of this year, and it messed up.... Ganondorf and Roy messed it up when it worked too, select Ganondorf of Roy, and it messes up.....

 

[Smasher-LTIMT]

Yo seriously, stop *****ing about the melee community, and help your own damn game out. If it dies, the only ones at fault will be your guys fault for simply shouting at the fire as it burnt down. Complaining solves nothing.

Their all one title, you don't have to help, but you guys need to stop fearing change! Some people are fine with it, change is what happens! Without change, we would have a hard time in the future, and Melee wouldn't exist, Smash Bros wouldn't exist, cause their will be no change...... Be careful about who you talk to, their are haters who don't understand Smash Bros. Fans are all one fanbase! We all like Super Smash Bros! And people separate then by taking out the "Super Smash Bros." And just say "Brawl" "Melee" "Smash 64" and "Smash 3ds"

 

[Codaption]

Their all one title, you don't have to help, but you guys need to stop fearing change! Some people are fine with it, change is what happens! Without change, we would have a hard time in the future, and Melee wouldn't exist, Smash Bros wouldn't exist, cause their will be no change...... Be careful about who you talk to, their are haters who don't understand Smash Bros. Fans are all one fanbase! We all like Super Smash Bros! And people separate then by taking out the "Super Smash Bros." And just say "Brawl" "Melee" "Smash 64" and "Smash 3ds"

While there are clear-cut differences in each version that separate them from each other, it's true that we as a community need to try to adopt this mindset. I'm a smash 4 player myself, so I find it tiring to constantly have to defend the Melee community from others who play my game. Think about it: I don't even PLAY Melee. It just comes from me wanting people to stop beating on each other senselessly and accept that we all like games, we all like Nintendo, and most of all, we like being able to beat each other senselessly in games made by Nintendo.

You want to fight, fight in the game. Real life doesn't have a percentage bar, and getting angry on the internet isn't going to net you a stock lead.

 

[Chris Sifniotis]

While there are clear-cut differences in each version that separate them from each other, it's true that we as a community need to try to adopt this mindset. I'm a smash 4 player myself, so I find it tiring to constantly have to defend the Melee community from others who play my game. Think about it: I don't even PLAY Melee. It just comes from me wanting people to stop beating on each other senselessly and accept that we all like games, we all like Nintendo, and most of all, we like being able to beat each other senselessly in games made by Nintendo.

You want to fight, fight in the game. Real life doesn't have a percentage bar, and getting angry on the internet isn't going to net you a stock lead.

Here, have a Special Flag.

+1000

 

[Codaption]

Here, have a Special Flag.

+1000

D'awww, thanks~