(Edgehopped) Reverse Aether Edgeguard

[metroid1117]

Just some food for thought.

When your opponent is recovering, grab the edge. If they then go for the stage (like any sensible Bowser, Donkey Kong, a Pit or ROB coming up from below, etc.), you can try and get them with an Aether spike from the edge by pressing left (assuming you are grabbing the left edge of the stage, therefore facing right) to get off the edge and then diagonally up-left+B; the result is that Ike will turn around and use Aether. Ideally, you want to trap your opponent in the apex of the sword throw so then they become trapped in up+B, thus causing them to get spiked when you drop down and grab the edge with your back. Note that during this, you MUST DI towards the stage (right in this case); otherwise, Ike will fall just short of the stage and it will be an Aethercide. From there, you can either edgehop DAir to spike them or edgehop BAir to knock them out again, depending on the opponent. It's fun to catch spacies with this, because you get to spike them out of their up+B .

However, this is a high-risk method of edgeguarding because if you miss the opponent, they can get an easy edgehog on you; it is impossible to reverse Aether from the edge and land on the stage. I do not recommend dropping down and using this to catch opponents coming from below (space animals, Marth, etc.) because of that and because an edgehopped BAir or DAir is much more effective.

 

[Vro]

The result is a semi-spike. You can easily be edge hogged by this, so I don't recommend doing this. And I think this is common knowledge.

 

[XSilvenX]

It is quite common knowledge. It falls under the same category as spiking someone with a ledgehopped Dair in my opinion. Nonetheless it is a very useful technique and I'm interested in hearing people's opinions on it. I for one feel it's a great technique, I use it all the time...

 

[Empy]

I like the Aether spike itself, but I don't use the suggested execution here, I think there are far better ways to pull it off. In this example people can see it coming pretty easily and either dodge or even make you suicide by edgehogging. I'd recommend jumping from the stage and doing a dair, so you can force your opponent to either use their air-jump or upB and then hit them out of that with Aether. This also makes clear much earlier whether or not you'll actually be able to pull off the Aether spike, and is saver because you can still jump and are able to do any aerial attack.

However, when you do get it to work the way OP means, it's still a pretty good way to kill.

 

[metroid1117]

@ people saying it's common knowledge: Oops. Oh well; hopefully at least one person will learn from it.

I like the Aether spike itself, but I don't use the suggested execution here, I think there are far better ways to pull it off. In this example people can see it coming pretty easily and either dodge or even make you suicide by edgehogging. I'd recommend jumping from the stage and doing a dair, so you can force your opponent to either use their air-jump or upB and then hit them out of that with Aether. This also makes clear much earlier whether or not you'll actually be able to pull off the Aether spike, and is saver because you can still jump and are able to do any aerial attack.

However, when you do get it to work the way OP means, it's still a pretty good way to kill.

The way I meant for it to be used (and the way I usually do it when I get the opportunity) is during the opponent's up+B, so they can't avoid it by airdodging. You're right though; in any other scenario, it's easy to see. The problem I have with the standard DAir edgeguard is that (1) it's limited to when your opponent is near the stage (DAir has limited horizontal range, especially spiking portion) and about level with it and (2) there is the possibility of screwing up and automatically fastfalling; if that happens and you miss, you're going to be in trouble. It is indeed safer than the reverse Aether edgeguard that I outlined in my original post, though.

 

[XSilvenX]

It's very useful the way Metroid uses it. The dair to Aether is predictable as hell..they know you're going to do it. On the contrary even if Aether is predicted it's still hard as hell to airdodge perfectly so most likely your chance of success is pretty high. And about the whole backfiring...let's face it, if you're a smart player and you know what your opponent's character is capable of you're not gonna get hit with anything on the opponent's side because you make the decision based on what you think the opponent is going to do in the first place and whether or not the character is capable of punishing Aether or grabbing the ledge fast enough before Ike which in most cases is ZERO

I personally have never gotten edgehogged while using Aether from the ledge...and I can't even imagine that happening unless I did it at a very stupid time. Call me a daredevil but I don't see much of a risk in doing so vs most characters. But then again...being a smart player I would never do it in a situation where I feel the opponent can do something about it. Players who blindly use techniques are setting themselves up for an sd pretty much so I guess I can see how you can put yourself intro trouble with it.

Also about Dair from the stage to an Aether. That technique is good and all but the dair hitbox is so narrow you'd have to be pretty much spot on to make even the slightest impact in your opponent's movement, not to mention this isn't exactly foolproof....it reverses the game when you miss. For example I had to do an Ike ditto in a tournament match one time and everytime the guy would throw me off the stage he'd go for a dair..he'd miss and I'd just reverse Aether him. I'd grab the ledge..he would die. I ended up 3 stocking the guy and 2 stocking him on the second match. Because he kept trying to use Dair

Ike isn't the only character who takes advantage of Dair missing either...Metaknight, DDD, anyone who can bair comfortably off the ledge basically can screw you over wayyy before your Aether comes out. It's even worse with the characters who have auto-sweetspot upb's or tether recoveries like Samus because even if you do manage to use Aether in time they can either tether gimp you or just upb AFTER Ike throws his sword up to sweetspot the ledge when Ike needs it. This isn't definite though because of course most of the time if you're lingering around the stage, Ike can land on the stage. He doesn't necessarily need the ledge at times. But this depends on how far you initially jumped with Dair.

 

[St. Viers]

why not just pick FD and use is throgh the stage?

 

[XSilvenX]

why not just pick FD and use is throgh the stage?

I think you're missing the point...An Aether through the stage will only do damage and most people know to stay away from an Ike on the ledge anyway so that's not really effective anymore.

We're talking about using Aether to spike when the opponent is coming back and they're in a good position for that sword to reach and pull them down to either be on par with the stage or to get spiked. When they're on par with the stage you can wait out your invincibility frames (you can't move until you do) and follow up with either a ledgehopped b-air or a ledgehopped d-air like the OP said.