Not sure exactly if it needed it's own thread, but it sure as hell did drown in the Sonic GD, so I thought I'd repost it here.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pfq2jo8F66I : Gimping Ike's Aether w/ Pikachu
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FW7bkOoxPB4 : Gimping Ike's Aether w/ Pikachu 2
I think this could call for some testing against other characters besides just G&W, Marth, and Ike.
Above that, just the concept of abusing our ledge invincibility for edgeguarding purposes would be pretty cool.
Does anyone have any accurate frame data on how many frames of invincibility Sonic has after letting go of the ledge as soon as possible? It'd give a good time frame for how far away we can attack from while still having invincibility.
It has to be longer than Sonic's bair, especially since you're able to bair G&W out of his UpB prior to the ledge snap.
So yeah, discuss.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A3gO6w_5eyo
I tested this with K Prime this last weekend, and wanted to wait for him to post videos about it.
We tried this with Sonic against Marth and Mr. Game & Watch.
Sonic's fair, uair, and nair work against the two of them in this fashion, as long as they are executed properly.
Sonic's bair works against Mr. Game & Watch.
So umm...discuss?
what happens if you try to do that WITHOUT using ledge invincibility?
Is the window of opportunity for Marth's recovery the same as G&W's? Less time? More time?
Also, in regards to Sonic's bair against Game & Watch, would the hitbox send him outwards away from the stage or inwards towards the stage for a possible stage spike?
@KID: You'd have to be able to time any of our aerials to the extent that their hitbox is out at that EXACT SINGLE FRAME where Mr. Game & Watch is vulnerable in order to hit him. Not only that, but because he's more or less underneath the level during the vulnerable frame, you'd have to be off of the level a considerable distance and already doing an attack to land the move.
I think I only managed it once out of a running-off-the-ledge fast falled bair. All the other times I either whiffed, or got hit.
Generally speaking, it's just easier to hit him out of a ledge snap, since you can abuse the invincible frames you still have after letting go.
This little trick is also great for gimping Ikes (I'm fond of this trick against low recovering MKs too from time to time). I only brought it up because I didn't know that G&W had a weak point in his upB from below aside from a quick ledge snap.
@Rave: I believe K Prime told me it was 4-5 frames that Marth was vulnerable, so the window is bigger for him, of course.
Nailing Mr. Game & Watch with the bair...it depends on where the bair lands. Several times during our tests, my bair sent him into the stage. Other times, it sent him away.
timing is pretty **** tight
but doable if you see the opportunity, from what i can visually see when GW goes into the grabbing on the ledge animation it doesnt look like he has IF there only after he starts dangling under it
how would you apply this to ike tho? doesnt he have SA frames during some of aether?
K Prime has videos of gimping Ike using the same concept.
He even gimped my Ike with Ganondorf using the same method.
Ike has SA during the "throw my sword up" animation. He can be hit out of the rising and spinning animation.
You snap the ledge, drop THROUGH the sword-throw with your invincible frames leftover from the ledge snap, then hit him before he passes through you for a free gimp. Heck, you could even drop a spring afterward to pour salt in the wound.
Fun Fact: Sonic can also bair Ike out of Aether during the "spinning" animation.
I did that against someone in my tourney saturday. The SD platform drop Bair kill. Feels good man.
So basically, we can gimp the hell out of Marth if we send him off stage and force him to use his second jump.
Does Nair have enough priority to allow a small margin of error in timing? Since it his a lingering hitbox, could one of the weaker hits still knock Marth out of his UpB? Or is it the strong hitbox the only one that will hit him out of it?
EDIT: And for Ike, wouldn't it be easier to just Dair towards the stage? I did that a few times against Ike and not only do I dodge the sword throwing and the SA frames. As I come down and hit him, he gets sent up into the stage for a stagespike. Of course, proper DI should probably avoid that from happening. Still a neat thing to do on stages like BF and FD.
As long as your hitbox is out, and you're still invincible from the ledge drop, you should be able to hit Marth out of it.
However, I'd personally advise against using the sex kick portion of nair. That's begging for an UpB stage spike from a Marth.
True. I guess the only other thing to watch out for with using Nair is to not accidentally Dair. That would suck :l.
Which aerial would you suggest be best for gimping him from the ledge drop? Nair and Fair seemed like the only viable ones since Uair would send him up.
Videos for the whole Ike gimping idea from the ledge came from these:Just to clarify, Rave, you do NOT fast fall a ledge drop for either Marth or Mr. Game & Watch.
You just ledge drop by hitting away.
With Ike, you fast fall the ledge drop. Not the case with G&W and Marth.
As for preferences, do whatever you feel is more appropriate.
-Fair if you want damage, or you don't think they'll tech the stage spike/DI up.
-Nair if you want the better knock back at higher percentages/want the KO off of the horizontals. On the edges of Final Destination, a sweet spot fresh nair should kill around 160-180, based on the character + DI.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pfq2jo8F66I : Gimping Ike's Aether w/ Pikachu
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FW7bkOoxPB4 : Gimping Ike's Aether w/ Pikachu 2
I think this could call for some testing against other characters besides just G&W, Marth, and Ike.
Above that, just the concept of abusing our ledge invincibility for edgeguarding purposes would be pretty cool.
Does anyone have any accurate frame data on how many frames of invincibility Sonic has after letting go of the ledge as soon as possible? It'd give a good time frame for how far away we can attack from while still having invincibility.
It has to be longer than Sonic's bair, especially since you're able to bair G&W out of his UpB prior to the ledge snap.
So yeah, discuss.