Edgeguard vs. fastfallers: What to do against sweetspot rejump?

[Kadano]

Most of the time that Fox/Falco/CF escape from my edgeguards, they do so by sweetspotting their rejump to the ledge. Now my question is, is it possible to hit them with Shieldbreaker / Dtilt / Fsmash if timed correctly or do I need to go offstage to intercept? If so, is Fair always fast enough to hit them before they can grab the ledge or what do you recommend?

Also, if CF times his upB recovery perfectly, is it possible for me to hit him from the stage or do I need to go offstage? Afaik it's only possible to get him with a Dtilt on FoD.

 

[OverLord]

You can:

- grab the ledge, they fall like idiots, then you kill them with a ledge-drop Fair while they're Up-Bing
- turn around D-Tilt. (I recommend this one)
- wavedash off stage Fair, but this one is just fancy, not recommended against Spacies. Good against Falcon.
- You can also jump off, rejump Dair, timed with their jump. M2K sometimes does this one.

Also, you can always hit Falcon with a D-Tilt, but you have to space it correctly, so that it hits under the ledge-spot, and time it well. Falcon can always tech it, but then you can grab ledge/go off stage Fairing/stuff/whateva and he dies.

 

[ArcNatural]

You can:

- grab the ledge, they fall like idiots, then you kill them with a ledge-drop Fair while they're Up-Bing
- turn around D-Tilt. (I recommend this one)
- wavedash off stage Fair, but this one is just fancy, not recommended against Spacies. Good against Falcon.
- You can also jump off, rejump Dair, timed with their jump. M2K sometimes does this one.

Also, you can always hit Falcon with a D-Tilt, but you have to space it correctly, so that it hits under the ledge-spot, and time it well. Falcon can always tech it, but then you can grab ledge/go off stage Fairing/stuff/whateva and he dies.

All truth. dtilt/fair/fsmash/jab all hit below the edge when timed and spaced correctly.

You can be a boss and just believe they are going to rejump and grab the edge or run off fair or reverse wavedash fair (so your fair hits towards the stage).

Grabbing the edge usually produces a change in how they recover that you can manipulate.

 

[Kadano]

If I wavedash to the ledge, they can airdodge on the stage if they have fast reactions. But I'll try it and see how they react, thanks!
Do dtilt/fsmash etc. just hit below the stage or even below the lowest ledgegrab point?

Does run off fair hit them even if they rejump near the stage (= di in)? I think fair towards the stage is too risky as Fox can walljump tech and shine, and both Falco and CF also have good options for edgeguarding me.

 

[OverLord]

No, Falcon can't do ****.

If he just rejumps, he's dead if you wavedash-off-Fair.

Also, they can't really airdodge on reaction unless they decided to do it before jumping.
Just d-throw, turn around d-tilt, and then wait and punish.

 

[Archangel]

"take ledge quit life!"

~ DJ Nintendo

 

[Dart!]

if you throw him off and wavedash ledge he can jump forward knee you before you grab ledge.

 

[Walt]

Dash at him and counter will bait a uair/nair/knee pretty often cause it looks like you're gonna run off fair him if he doesn't throw something out.

 

[OverLord]

if you throw him off and wavedash ledge he can jump forward knee you before you grab ledge.

Yep, but he was asking about people that rejump to grab ledge.

 

[Dart!]

Yep, but he was asking about people that rejump to grab ledge.

touche, it's only a guessing game though. they can catch on.
good catch though

 

[OverLord]

touche, it's only a guessing game though. they can catch on.
good catch though

Exactly, in fact sometimes I just d-throw and see what they tend to do, to punish next time. Aggressive Falcons will rejump>knee/uair often, but I see more rejump to ledge/airdodge nowadays.

If I was Falcon, I would probably rejump>airdodge.

 

[ArcNatural]

Exactly, in fact sometimes I just d-throw and see what they tend to do, to punish next time. Aggressive Falcons will rejump>knee/uair often, but I see more rejump to ledge/airdodge nowadays.

If I was Falcon, I would probably rejump>airdodge.

Airdodge isn't too great vs Marth's who recognize to try to catch sweetspots with dtilt and just grab if they airdodge instead. Marth's edgegame is so solid in that regard.

 

[OverLord]

But airdodging still remains the best thing Falcon could do.

The fact that Marth can punish it with no effort just tells us how bad Falcon is.

 

[mers]

Wavedash and fastfall to ledge to immediate ledge-stand (under 100% obviously) is super good.

 

[Wo1f]

Sheildbreaker hits just below the stage - Perfect for CF recovery (especially his UpB)

I don't understand the wavedash Fair. When I do it, I just grab the edge, do you mean facing off the stage? A lot of the times hes just under the lip so that wouldn't work.

 

[ArcNatural]

Sheildbreaker hits just below the stage - Perfect for CF recovery (especially his UpB)

I don't understand the wavedash Fair. When I do it, I just grab the edge, do you mean facing off the stage? A lot of the times hes just under the lip so that wouldn't work.

If you grab the edge your not fairing fast enough. Fair needs to start before you would grab the edge.

Now there are a lot of variations, such as you can wavedash backwards and hold down to avoid grabbing if you want to delay the fair.

You can wavedash backwards fair and wavedash backwards fastfall fair both before you would grab the edge, just need to be more precise.

Also if you do this at low percent (like 0%), you can often dthrow off, wavedash backwards fair the doublejump, do your own doublejump to fair, overb as many times as you want for the luls, upb kill.