Edgeguard Against Fox

[Jboy313]

when i have been playing i haev noticed a ok edgeguard if fox uses firefox to recover from under teh stage all you have to do it get in the way and use Nair when the firefox hits you fox goes down like a shinespike making it harder for him to recover. and also you get sent up so you can just dodge or w/e to recover..

 

[KirbyKaze]

I like D-smashing Fox low recoveries.

But I'm sure there are better things to use.

 

[Levitas]

Dtilt if they come in low. Bat works too, but you won't have time to punish if they tech.

something that doesn't trade is preferable, as you take 14% every time.

 

[thesage]

Fox is easy to edgeguard.

 

[Hazygoose]

ness's forward tilt end's foxes chances to get back if he goes for the ledge or is coming from below. broken hitbox with decent knockback = goodbye, fox.
and if they try to sweet spot from below, WD back and grab the edge.
spacies are easy as crap for ness to edgeguard.

 

[thesage]

Um... f-tilt is possibly the worst idea I've ever heard for edgeguarding. You might as well learn to time the bat instead.

D-tilt is a better option that f-tilt to edgeguard fox in almost every single situation. Considering what this guy was asking for, d-tilt was what he wanted. That thing is really gay edgeguarding spacies.

 

[Hazygoose]

shows how much you know. i guess since f-tilt works on amazing players i should stop using it and start using the bat that won't even hit them on the edge as well and is easier to tech. good thinking, mate.

 

[thesage]

Bat does hit people that sweetspot if you have good enough timing and spacing. If you're worrying about ledgeteching then f-tilt is worse than d-tilt in that regard. A downwards angled f-tilt has less range than a d-tilt as well (i think, i'll pull out my ar tonight)... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ul-H80wSsM

I'm sure all the pros in Oklahoma are amazing... I didn't even know there was a smash scene there.

 

[ChivalRuse]

Somebody should test out the effectiveness of a low DJC'ed bair to edgeguard flawed side-b sweetspotting from spacies, as well as for intercepting a rising firefox that hits slightly above the edge.

 

[#HBC | Mac]

I usually nair illusions, though sometimes they trade.

 

[thesage]

DJC Bair probably could work if they don't sweetspot. There are much better options though usually...

 

[The Phenom]

I use down smashes as edge guarding.

 

[Rykard]

d-tilt beats out their illusion if they try and sweet spot it (im referring to falco as well since you edgeguard them basically the same way). D-tilt also beats out the Firefox if you space it correctly so you dont get hit as well. low angle f-tilt also works really well and has more knockback than the d-tild however the d-tilt may cause them to firefox/bird early allowing you to bat them off when they come up. ive also seen people use the charge of the upsmash or downsmash work as an edge guard but it doesnt really give you many options after it hits them cause of the lag

and fyi. all down tilt edge guards shoould be multiple downtilts after the first one hits cause they can DI it and grab the ledge if you dont keep trying to attack them

 

[#HBC | Mac]

Thats good to know about downtilt. I always go for the predict a sideB and pk fire edgegaurd just because it makes me feel good when it hits lol. Fsmash is surprisingly easy to time against the spacies UPB which is good. Also fsmash wrecks Falcons recovery as well.

What do you guys do vs marth. I find myself using pk thunder to mess up marths sweetspot. So they upB early which makes it easier to hit wth fsmash. Though this doesn't seem very safe and sometimes I get hit out of my fsmash. Any better suggestions?

Sometimes I jump out and nair vs alot of characters. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't; does anyone else do this?

 

[Roche_CL]

ummm
i use ness a lot
Ness can use lots of attacks to edgeguard fox, stop saying "ftilt is useless, or bat has too much lag" i think each one has its uses
FoxFalco:
if uses Illusion to sweetspot -> Ftilt pointed Downwards, has nice knock back, and you can REACT, bat has too much startup lag and you can't really react since illusion comes fast. Dtilt only if you are running and had to dash cancel fastly
If coming from upwards with UpB -> Fair, nice priority and hitbox
If illusion on stage -> SH Nair will do the job
if coming from below with UpB -> depends xD, maybe Dtilt is better when he can aim and mess your timing with a rare aming, but if he comes from very far, Bat is better option, although people may think bat doesnt reach the sweepot IT DOES, its hitbox goes down like Marth's Fsmash, so he has to aim it perfectly, otherwise he is dead.
Bair has little hitbox, i would use it only if i had no other option.

So, thesage, Ftilt is awesome edgeguarding against illusion (except he is one of those psychos who aim it perfectly on the sweetspot) although against firefox its sucky since you will trade mostly, or wont hit him if its coming from below.
And Hazygoose, Bat has amazing hitbox.

And against Marth:
Bat is the Sex, you just have to perfect your spacing and timing (not that difficult really), do that and you will **** every marth that dont sweetspot perfectly n_n

 

[Levitas]

Offstage bair is sometimes worth it against marth, but save your DJ for after your bair. This is only for when they need a full recovery distance, but can potentially land on the stage.

Bat doesn't work if they space it perfectly, but can work a lot of the time because it still hits below stage level.

Edgehogging is good, too. Pretend he's sheik or something and punish him for going to the stage.

 

[toasty]

fair is always good against Side and Up B.

I love ftilt though...knockback angle is like Ganon's and it's strangely powerful.

 

[Hazygoose]

I'm sure all the pros in Oklahoma are amazing... I didn't even know there was a smash scene there.

kos-mos won over 3000 dollars in melee. i can beat his fox (his shared main), which according to how he was playing at apex, is even with jman's fox. not that his peach doesn't wreck me as ness...
and scud 3-stocked scar a couple times (lost some too) and barely lost to darkrain. give us a break

point is, bite your tongue. you have no idea how good i am so just listen to my ideas with an open mind, please ^.^ ftilt works wonders.

also: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BMekVsUp934
wewt. i promise to get more ness v. spacies up soon. i think my record is better than my sheik's...SIGH

 

[Jono]

i haven't truly tried this much but is there enough time for a backthrow when you're edgehogging and forcing them to have their firefox land on the stage? (assuming you're <100%) lol.

 

[The Phenom]

If you probably waveland then you'll have a better chance but Fox recovers so quickly after his UpB which is the problem.
--------
CLASS OF 2009!!!

 

[Jono]

yeah i guess a well placed bair (if he's that close) is more practical then

 

[thesage]

kos-mos won over 3000 dollars in melee. i can beat his fox (his shared main), which according to how he was playing at apex, is even with jman's fox. not that his peach doesn't wreck me as ness...
and scud 3-stocked scar a couple times (lost some too) and barely lost to darkrain. give us a break

point is, bite your tongue. you have no idea how good i am so just listen to my ideas with an open mind, please ^.^ ftilt works wonders.

shows how much you know. i guess since f-tilt works on amazing players i should stop using it and start using the bat that won't even hit them on the edge as well and is easier to tech. good thinking, mate.

I just want to say I thought that you attacked me first from those posts. W/e I don't really care.

And please please please don't use inuilogic ever in a debate. One time I was at a smashfest where I beat sombody, who beat a person who beat me, in dittos. It just doesn't work.

also: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BMekVsUp934
wewt. i promise to get more ness v. spacies up soon. i think my record is better than my sheik's...SIGH

Sheik actually has to try vs. spacies so that's why your record with Ness is better vs. Spacies since you're used to trying with him lmao. I have the same problem using Peach/Sheik/Marth.

Good Ness. Nice u-throw to djc uair on the platform. Personally I use djc more, but that's just because it's the only reason I play him and I find it fun. You could find some more uses for nair, but that's all I can really say.

 

[Hazygoose]

And please please please don't use inuilogic ever in a debate. One time I was at a smashfest where I beat sombody, who beat a person who beat me, in dittos. It just doesn't work.

Sheik actually has to try vs. spacies so that's why your record with Ness is better vs. Spacies since you're used to trying with him lmao. I have the same problem using Peach/Sheik/Marth.

Good Ness. Nice u-throw to djc uair on the platform. Personally I use djc more, but that's just because it's the only reason I play him and I find it fun. You could find some more uses for nair, but that's all I can really say.

at CT tournaments i've beaten like eggm among other decent to good players, was knocked out by pc...so i don't feel bad about my skill and don't take the time to justify it often on the interwebs i was just voucing for scud/kos-mos, not vouching for myself through proxy. no inui logic, thankfully, just trying to rep oklahoma hard since...when else do i get to? lol. we just suck at travelling T.T plus southwest is almost brawl exclusive now so boo.

thanks for the compliment, though. as long as i'm not playing a sheik or a peach i'm pretty comfortable with ness even in tourny. he's got some retardedly funny combos. not that sheik doesn't do the same thing by playing with one hand...

 

[thesage]

I wish you could set shiek's f-tilt to the c-stick.

 

[PSI-Apocalypse]

It's easy to edgeguard fox, I do it with the PK Shove, doesn't matter if he side b or fire fox, he's death.