Edelgard von Hresvelg - Black Eagles House Leader

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Question in spoilers :

How do these alternative routes work? Is every house available to rebel against the Church or Seiros or only Edelgard and Claude’s routes? I haven’t yet heard much about this option in the Blue Lions house, can anyone certify this?
Only Edelgard has motive to rebel against the church (which she does regardless of the route you choose), so the option is only available on her route. It also has some prerequisites: you must build at least a C-support with her (part of it is story-locked) and Hubert apparently, then join her on a personal errand (which the game will warn you of having serious potential repercussions on your path) later on, then later still stand by her when her plans are exposed. Fail to accomplish either of the first two prerequisites and you'll be locked into siding with the church no matter what.
 
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The issue here is that Smash FE fatigue is a very real thing, and from this point forward the devs have to try real hard to make non-echoes stand apart from their peers. I don't think we want her to just be "axe Ike with an army special", when we can double down on the zoning potential of said battalions and throwing axes, along with her heavy armour and tower shield, to make her into a slow, but veritable fortress that is very hard to breach, damage and KO. Think a playable version of the Black Knight assist. I don't really care if said slowness is an impediment to potential viability.

A few other things: Combat Arts can be worked into normals like smashes too, and her crest doesn't seem like it warrants a move slot, especially when it's something there's no downside to having on anyway. If you must include it, it should just be a passive that randomly procs on any non-battalion hit.

All this is more for post-skip Edelgard, who has the build in her default design to convey her tankiness. If you must use her more petite pre-skip design, however, it may be best to try something different entirely, focussing more on Three House's customization than Edelgard's personal traits. Both are valid options.
Of course I'd love anything like that, I'm just thinking that Axe Ike is more likely given that Corrin ended up less dragon and more Sword when FE fatigue was already a thing.
I mostly just thought CA and the Crest would stand out more as specials, since no FE really uses skills or procs in their Smash moveset (not counting Final Smashes) besides Corrin and Ike for 1 move. That seems like a bit of a missed opportunity to me, especially seeing how fun the sliding Shield Breaker custom in Smash 4 was. I still think that should've been Lucina's default, and called Luna, but that's beside the point.
I also think if she happens it is kind of inevitable it'd be pre-timeskip. That's the 'iconic' look it seems they'll be going for in merch and such, similar to how Ike got his basic first appearance designs and not the Vanguard one.
Again though I'd love anything she brings, as long as she's not an echo and even then I'd still be thrilled
 
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Of course I'd love anything like that, I'm just thinking that Axe Ike is more likely given that Corrin ended up less dragon and more Sword when FE fatigue was already a thing.
I mostly just thought CA and the Crest would stand out more as specials, since no FE really uses skills or procs in their Smash moveset (not counting Final Smashes) besides Corrin and Ike for 1 move. That seems like a bit of a missed opportunity to me, especially seeing how fun the sliding Shield Breaker custom in Smash 4 was. I still think that should've been Lucina's default, and called Luna, but that's beside the point.
I also think if she happens it is kind of inevitable it'd be pre-timeskip. That's the 'iconic' look it seems they'll be going for in merch and such, similar to how Ike got his basic first appearance designs and not the Vanguard one.
Again though I'd love anything she brings, as long as she's not an echo and even then I'd still be thrilled
Corrin is not a very traditional manakete to begin with, and with Tiki as an assist I'm inclined to believe the devs have trouble coming up with full, compelling movesets for them on their own, compared to the more dynamic Charizard and Ridley. Even Warriors essentially relegated the dragon form to super mode only.

Some moveset similarities to Ike or any heavy swordsman really are pretty inevitable since swinging an axe is not all that different from a two-handed sword. I'm just saying there are other ways than moves to make a character stand out in feel, and we shouldn't let thoughts like "slow=bad for viability" stop unique ideas.
 
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Corrin is not a very traditional manakete to begin with, and with Tiki as an assist I'm inclined to believe the devs have trouble coming up with full, compelling movesets for them on their own, compared to the more dynamic Charizard and Ridley. Even Warriors essentially relegated the dragon form to super mode only.

Some moveset similarities to Ike or any heavy swordsman really are pretty inevitable since swinging an axe is not all that different from a two-handed sword. I'm just saying there are other ways than moves to make a character stand out in feel, and we shouldn't let thoughts like "slow=bad for viability" stop unique ideas.
Oh for sure, I'd love her to be viable but that isn't really whats on my mind at the moment. I mean, I mained Link in brawl and 4, so I'm a bit used to slow and bad viability lol
 

Kotor

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Question in spoilers :

How do these alternative routes work? Is every house available to rebel against the Church or Seiros or only Edelgard and Claude’s routes? I haven’t yet heard much about this option in the Blue Lions house, can anyone certify this?
Only Edelgard declares war on the Church. Dimitri is loyal to the church. Claude comes off as not wanting anything to do with the war unless he's forced into it. Should you side with Edelgard, Dimitri offers his kingdom as a sanctuary for the Church after losing the monetary to the Empire.
 
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Knowing what I know about the plot of this game I gotta say:

Claude would probably make a better choice for this game since he comes accross as more of a hero lol
 

EarlTamm

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Knowing what I know about the plot of this game I gotta say:

Claude would probably make a better choice for this game since he comes accross as more of a hero lol
Counterpoint, isn't there a desire for more villain-like characters, especially with a franchise with only heroes? Not saying that Edelgard is straight up a villain(This is especially not the case in her own route, where she has Byleth as an anchor), but I am talking thematics overall.
 
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Counterpoint, isn't there a desire for more villain-like characters, especially with a franchise with only heroes? Not saying that Edelgard is straight up a villain(This is especially not the case in her own route, where she has Byleth as an anchor), but I am talking thematics overall.
Simplest way to put is grey. Most FE games have simple, straightforward stories that rely on contrived situations that mean 90% of the people you kill are unsympathetic, and do so with surgical precision thanks to your small strike team that somehow consistently avoids civilian casualties on their end. Usually leading up to an evil god/dragon/emperor with godly powers who goes "BWAHAHA I KILL EVERYONE BECAUSE I'M EEEVIL and/or CRAAZY FOR NO GOOD REASON. Radiant Dawn came the closest to avoiding that with multiple parties and interests, but bailed in the final act (though at least Ashera had somewhat solid reasoning behind her). Of course since the Awakening and Fates games are way more popular I'd imagine people are generally more used to goody-goody protagonists and stories.

Claude seems nice, but largely because it benefits him and the Alliance to be so and because his hand dealt is nowhere near as bad as Edelgard's or Dimitri's. Guy just seems born lucky in this world, and he doesn't really care about what happens to the others as long as he and his friends come out still standing. Anyone who brings up the other houses bringing reform to the church through less violent means tends to forget those means were only made possible by Edelgard's coup ousting Rhea from power in the first place; she makes her intent to shut down dissent or opposition to her religion very clear early on by executing the West Church members without so much as hearing a word of explanation on their part, and many of her followers have been made complacent enough to just take her words at face value. Byleth playing along with her also wouldn't likely have worked, because chances are she would just keep him/her in the dark about the injustices brought about by the crest system for her own benefit. Only reason she doesn't in her route is because she had no choice after Edelgard exposed them for her, leaving her no choice but to be truthful. In the end, both do some rotten things for what they believed in and are in danger of losing stability without support, but Edelgard does them for benefit of others while Rhea's motives are largely petty and selfish. Edel's acute awareness of the unsavory nature of her actions, and great difficulty in trusting that others can genuinely share in her vision (look at how she reacts when you agree with her notion of having to topple gods to achieve goals or calls you a liar when you say you'll join her while disguised as the Flame Emperor.) may be what the lyrics of this game's main theme were referring to all along.

KirbyWorshipper2465 KirbyWorshipper2465 Time will have to tell if this popularity lasts through the average player's playthroughs. In-game statistics may fluctuate when more people are going through their second or third choices (if they can bring themselves to do so...).

Edit: In terms of personalities among the females of Smash, I feel like there was a... certain regal quality that was lost with Zelda's transition from Twilight to Between Worlds, that Edelgard could fill in.

And as unlikely as it may be to ever come true in the future officially, it would be reall neat to see her interact with Nintendo villains like Ganondorf & Ridley to accomplish a greater goal.
 
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Guybrush20X6

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The thing that has me worried about Three Houses and the prospect of representatives in general is that anyone can be any class (just about) so there's litterally all of Fire Emblem to take inspiration from... and then in true Smash fashion, they'll just end up being another sword-user.

Robin and Corrin had some interesting new things, representing the mage and Manakete classes, but we're still missing two thirds of the famous weapon triangle and no-one's used a Pegasus as a recovery. Heck, even bring in a Pegasus riding ally for a rescue.
 
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The thing that has me worried about Three Houses and the prospect of representatives in general is that anyone can be any class (just about) so there's litterally all of Fire Emblem to take inspiration from... and then in true Smash fashion, they'll just end up being another sword-user.

Robin and Corrin had some interesting new things, representing the mage and Manakete classes, but we're still missing two thirds of the famous weapon triangle and no-one's used a Pegasus as a recovery. Heck, even bring in a Pegasus riding ally for a rescue.
Lemme know when class changing can be done during a fight in Fire Emblem without the help of rare items, then we can talk about spontaneous pegasi or wyvern summons. And a flying lord at base will never happen because you can't have your lord possess a devastating weakness to archers right from the start.

The truth is different weapons will only be aesthetically different, giving the same sort of playstyle regardless. Even King Dedede with his big mallet, the closest thing to an axe in Smash had to mechanize it so it could do more than just make broad swings. Fire Emblem characters are bound by realism which limits the feats they can pull off without magic. You want to see some interesting, never before seen stuff with a lance, for example, you'd be better off campaigning for someone like Bandanna Dee who can pull off cartoonish stunts with them to fill a moveset. Otherwise Ridley pretty much shows off the extent of what you can expect from a lance with his stinger tail, short of throwing it. Same deal with bows, which are covered by the Links and Pits.

Not to mention how I already mentioned how the importance of the weapon triangle is not even consistent in the first place. The ability to use three types of weapons is not a selling point for the franchise. And the popularity of Lords has very little to do with their weapon of choice, it only matters in Smash speculation as gravy because it's a weak argument on it's own.
 
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Lemme know when class changing can be done during a fight in Fire Emblem without the help of rare items, then we can talk about spontaneous pegasi or wyvern summons. And a flying lord at base will never happen because you can't have your lord possess a devastating weakness to archers right from the start.

The truth is different weapons will only be aesthetically different, giving the same sort of playstyle regardless. Even King Dedede with his big mallet, the closest thing to an axe in Smash had to mechanize it so it could do more than just make broad swings. Fire Emblem characters are bound by realism which limits the feats they can pull off without magic. You want to see some interesting, never before seen stuff with a lance, for example, you'd be better off campaigning for someone like Bandanna Dee who can pull off cartoonish stunts with them to fill a moveset. Otherwise Ridley pretty much shows off the extent of what you can expect from a lance with his stinger tail, short of throwing it. Same deal with bows, which are covered by the Links and Pits.

Not to mention how I already mentioned how the importance of the weapon triangle is not even consistent in the first place. The ability to use three types of weapons is not a selling point for the franchise. And the popularity of Lords has very little to do with their weapon of choice, it only matters in Smash speculation as gravy because it's a weak argument on it's own.
I don't buy that argument.
Surely there's room for both fantastic and realistic in Smash. Snake has C4, Link has magical glow bombs.

And mounting and dismounting horses/wyvrens/pegasi wouldn't be the first time Smash took liberties.
Fox was basically superglued to the Arwing cockpit until Smash 64.
And while the weapon triangle isn't in every game, neither are 1-up mushroom in Mario or Pokeballs in Pokemon. It was a big enough part of the games for both he recent spin-offs (Tokyo Mirage Sessions and Warriors) to take them into account.
 
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I don't buy that argument.
Surely there's room for both fantastic and realistic in Smash. Snake has C4, Link has magical glow bombs.

And mounting and dismounting horses/wyvrens/pegasi wouldn't be the first time Smash took liberties.
Fox was basically superglued to the Arwing cockpit until Smash 64.
And while the weapon triangle isn't in every game, neither are 1-up mushroom in Mario or Pokeballs in Pokemon. It was a big enough part of the games for both he recent spin-offs (Tokyo Mirage Sessions and Warriors) to take them into account.
Well, if you're going to argue liberties, then I guess the liberty of choosing lords that mainly use swords is also fine. Unless you're saying only your liberties are OK?

Snake can afford to be realistic because he has enough diverse tools to pool from and pull off something unique.

I'm just saying this whole weapon triangle debate is missing the forest for the trees. Smash FE characters aren't picked for their weapons, they're picked for their popularity, and it just so happens most of them are sword lords. If you've got a problem with that, take it up with Intelligent Systems how you want them to stop making sword lords so that a game they don't develop can improve in your eyes, or you start adding non-main characters, which will just give the haters something else to whine about. And if one is superficial enough to be bothered by a character's choice of weapon, short of it actually being inaccurate to how the character is portrayed, they probably didn't care much for the character in the first place.
 

Nihilem

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When the axe not enough to justify a unique moveset then how about her other speciality which is authority? I mean she is the future empress, destined to command large armies into battle, so why dont show that side of fire emblem (which in the newest part finally allow you to command actual armies).

Instead of heaving fancy axe move (which to be honest wouldnt derivate to much from other heavy weapons), her moveset could be build around summoning other members of the black eagles as some kind of stationary danger zone. That would give her more of a "stage controller" type of playstyle, which is quite different from the rest of the FE crew.

I didnt thought of a complete moveset, but just to demonstrate the principle:

- her neutral b could be summoning hubert/dorothea to cast a miasma/fireball onto the enemy. That character would then stay there. Using neutral b again would make it cast the spell from his/her position at the enemy again (while edelgard herself might have moved somewhere else). Allowing Edelgard the attack from multiple angles at once.
- side b could be sending out ferdinand or caspar horizontally (like zeldas phantom knight). Using it again making him come back to edelgards new position
- down b could releasing all characters and healing or buffing edelgards (need a way to reposition e.g. neutral b)


Normal attacks and smash would then encorporate the axe.


A moveset like this would not only be unique but also incorporate the aspect of strategy in the fire emblem series. After all it is a strategy game where you have to wisely position your units to controll the battlefield and take out enemies in combined strikes. An aspect which the other fe characters did not incorporate at all.
 
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When the axe not enough to justify a unique moveset then how about her other speciality which is authority? I mean she is the future empress, destined to command large armies into battle, so why dont show that side of fire emblem (which in the newest part finally allow you to command actual armies).

Instead of heaving fancy axe move (which to be honest wouldnt derivate to much from other heavy weapons), her moveset could be build around summoning other members of the black eagles as some kind of stationary danger zone. That would give her more of a "stage controller" type of playstyle, which is quite different from the rest of the FE crew.

I didnt thought of a complete moveset, but just to demonstrate the principle:

- her neutral b could be summoning hubert/dorothea to cast a miasma/fireball onto the enemy. That character would then stay there. Using neutral b again would make it cast the spell from his/her position at the enemy again (while edelgard herself might have moved somewhere else). Allowing Edelgard the attack from multiple angles at once.
- side b could be sending out ferdinand or caspar horizontally (like zeldas phantom knight). Using it again making him come back to edelgards new position
- down b could releasing all characters and healing or buffing edelgards (need a way to reposition e.g. neutral b)


Normal attacks and smash would then encorporate the axe.


A moveset like this would not only be unique but also incorporate the aspect of strategy in the fire emblem series. After all it is a strategy game where you have to wisely position your units to controll the battlefield and take out enemies in combined strikes. An aspect which the other fe characters did not incorporate at all.
Kind of forgetting Edelgard's other specialty is heavy armour. Hard to imagine Edelgard being speedy enough to capitalize on summons the way you describe.

Authority in Three Houses is about controlling battalions, and there's a lot of never-before seen potential in them than just some summonable party members. One of their main uses is breaking the barriers on boss monsters, which can translate into high shield damage in Smash. This would make Edelgard a walking fortress that uses her chargeable battalions (per Fastblade5035 Fastblade5035 suggestion) and possibly some throwing axes to wear and break down her opponent's defences before moving in for a crushing blow (if they don't block or avoid the battalion attacks, they suffer reduced mobility and jump height for a short time). Projectile battalions like arrow rain or group flames can deal with aerial approaches, in addtion to super armour on many of Edelgard's moves. And if she's up against someone who can try to chip away at her or her battalions at a distance, she can move forward herself with a big tower shield to gain a better position.
 

Nihilem

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Well while it is true that Edelgard becomes quite the Tank later I think we agreed that she will be in her per-timeskip form in smash (if she appears). Because it is more iconic. And there she definitive does not look like a heavy.

And even if she would be a heavy, the playstyle can still work. Azir from LoL, uses a similar style and isnt the quickest. I know it isnt the same genre, but the best comparision i found.

Unfortunately, I didnt found the post where Fastblade 5035 suggested his moveset, but it also sounds interesting. I would then suggest that instead of heaving nameless battalloins casting the Spells I would let the Black Eagle Members cast them. Or at least let them lead the battaloins that cast the spell. You have more references to three houses that way.

(But I still cannot Imagine the Game summoning a whole battaloin of soldiers onto the battlefield - wouldnt that become quite chaotic quite fast?)
 
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Well while it is true that Edelgard becomes quite the Tank later I think we agreed that she will be in her per-timeskip form in smash (if she appears). Because it is more iconic. And there she definitive does not look like a heavy.

And even if she would be a heavy, the playstyle can still work. Azir from LoL, uses a similar style and isnt the quickest. I know it isnt the same genre, but the best comparision i found.

Unfortunately, I didnt found the post where Fastblade 5035 suggested his moveset, but it also sounds interesting. I would then suggest that instead of heaving nameless battalloins casting the Spells I would let the Black Eagle Members cast them. Or at least let them lead the battaloins that cast the spell. You have more references to three houses that way.

(But I still cannot Imagine the Game summoning a whole battaloin of soldiers onto the battlefield - wouldnt that become quite chaotic quite fast?)
The "iconic pre-skip look" is the Noble class, which has no specialty at all. It represents a fresh beginning where a unit can start their path to become whatever it is they wish to be, and to that end I'd elect a different focus of using a large variety of weaponry, possibly becoming more proficient with certain types the more hits she lands with them. Her deficient areas would be ignored, of course.

I don't see the need to cram all that representation in a moveset when spirits/trophies do that just fine for large casts. Besides, it's Byleth who seems to handle the in-battle guidance and tactics more. Though I suppose it's OK to have Hubert at least, he's that dedicated to serving her after all.

It wouldn't be that hard to reduce battalion sizes to fit Smash, just look at Olimar and his three-Pikmin cap.
 

Nihilem

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Well my point is that characters in smash have stats according to their looks more than the stats in their orginal games. Mewtwo for example should be heavier then Charizard according to pokedex.


And their is ofc no need to cram any representation into the characters. Their also werent any need to include the persona guys in mememto and definetly no need to include 4 dragon quest protagonists in 1 char. But its nice to have for fans and doesnt hurt. And if sakurai went the extra mile for those chars to feel special it is not to much to ask for the same care for edelgard.
 

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Count me in. While I think Byleth has the bigger chance Edelgard has quickly became one of my favourite characters in the series after playing her route in 3H!
 
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Altais

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At this point, I can actually see both Byleth AND Edelgard making it in Smash, due to the latter's popularity. Frankly, it wouldn't be the first time we got more than one Fire Emblem character from the same game. Still not sure how she would work beyond swinging her axe, though, since I chose Golden Deer for mine first playthrough.
 
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Well while it is true that Edelgard becomes quite the Tank later I think we agreed that she will be in her per-timeskip form in smash (if she appears). Because it is more iconic. And there she definitive does not look like a heavy.
Well, Path of Radiance Ike doesn't really look like a heavy. In that game he has average bulk and a lot of speed, which definitely didn't transfer to his moveset.

Edelgard in Fire Emblem Heroes uses her pre time-skip design but with tank stats and a skill kit that would usually be seen on armored units despite her being infantry.
 

Nihilem

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Well, Path of Radiance Ike doesn't really look like a heavy. In that game he has average bulk and a lot of speed, which definitely didn't transfer to his moveset.

Edelgard in Fire Emblem Heroes uses her pre time-skip design but with tank stats and a skill kit that would usually be seen on armored units despite her being infantry.
Well at the end it all is dependend if sakurai or his team think her fighting style require her to be heavy or not. Stats from her own game dont seem to matter that much (see Mewtwo & Ike example). You can argue that she will be lighter because no armor or heavier because of the two handed axe. Maybe their even give her a shield (like in Heros case) which justifies a heavier wight even more. So I can see both options viable.


Byleth I only see in smash, if the next smash is "heros&villains" themed like this one was rumored to. Because outside Ike&Black Knight and Byleth&Edelgard I dont see viable hero/villain pairs for fire emblem. And I know she isnt seen as the villain in her own route, but in all the other ones she is, so that classifies her as a villain for me. But then I would even like Dimitri&Edelgard more because Byleth is quite bland and boring in my mind.
 
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Honestly, I much rather prefer Dimitri, because I like his character and fighting style way better. A lance is also drastically different than a sword, and I prefer his side of the story much more than the others. Honestly, after almost completing Blue Lions now, I can’t really bear it in my heart to choose the Black Eagle path in a new play through. I think Golden Deer is a good possibility for a next play through, but definitely not Black Eagle. I don’t really get how Edelgard gets all this popularity. For me, Dimitri is everything Ephraim should’ve been, but more.

I guess this game is just dramatic and well written that you feel so involved with the house you choose in the beginning. That’s a job very well done honestly. I also don’t expect that Black Eagle enthusiasts would play the Blue Lions route eagerly. That’s good story building honestly.
 

Nihilem

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Honestly, after almost completing Blue Lions now, I can’t really bear it in my heart to choose the Black Eagle path in a new play through. I think Golden Deer is a good possibility for a next play through, but definitely not Black Eagle. I don’t really get how Edelgard gets all this popularity. For me, Dimitri is everything Ephraim should’ve been, but more.
Thats all the more reason to choose Black Eagles, it gives you a new perspective to the story.
 

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Thats all the more reason to choose Black Eagles, it gives you a new perspective to the story.
Yeah, so I read, but...

I really don’t want to kill Dimitri, or let him die because of ‘me’. I might try the Church of Seiros route of Black Eagles, because whatever the motivations; I still regard Edelgard as the true villain of the game.
 

Grie

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Yeah, so I read, but...

I really don’t want to kill Dimitri, or let him die because of ‘me’. I might try the Church of Seiros route of Black Eagles, because whatever the motivations; I still regard Edelgard as the true villain of the game.
There is actually a way to remove some of the salt from it in black eagles I don’t know the specifics but here is how It might work.
In chapter 17 you first need to kill Dedue before he turns into a beast (the same type from chapter 20 of BL) then you need to off Dimitri with anyone but Edelguard. Instead of her dissing him before killing him, you get a sad conversation between Dimitri and Dedue. It’s kinda of a pain but it might just be worth it.
Anyway I really like the lords in this game. Finished blue lions a week ago and looked up a bunch of spoilers for the other two. I would rank them like this.

1-Dimitri: I actually think he might be the most well written lord in the entire series. Is arc, descent and rise is an absolute treat to watch unfold and is interactions with the rest of the cast feels natural for someone like him. I would go into more detail but I prefer people actually see it unfold for themselves.

2-Edelegard: The best way to describe her is like this.
If Rudolph ad actual screen time and is plan made more sense.

3-Claud: Now I don’t hate him of course not, but he definitely does not have the depth of the other two. But at least they didn’t try to make him the perfect good guy.

But in the end one thing is clear, I want a three houses rep badly (please Dimitri but any of them could work).
 

Nihilem

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Oh she is a villain, even in her own story-line. But a lot of what she does makes more sense when witnessing it. It also makes her alot more symphatetic, as not all villains must act evil for the sake of acting evil. Thats whats make her a great villain in my eyes. I wouldnt call her the main villain thought that is that title belongs to "Those who slither in the dark".

But as was discussed in detail before a new, a new Fire Emblem Char needs probably to bring more with him/her than a new weapon. If his/her kit is still chargable attack + counter, the smash bros fanbase will not be pleased. But the be honest musch of the whole battalion stuff could be also utilized by Dimitri.
 

Diddy Kong

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Nah I want them to keep the battalion part excluded out of the potential move sets of Dimitri and / or Edelgard, keep them as Final Smash options. If they must. I never really used gambits much anyway. For me it’s just pure aesthetics to make the battlefields seem more realistic.

As for Dimitri, I agree he might be one of the best written characters in Fire Emblem yes! Probably the best, as of now. I like his story line, his character and the way he fights. His rough and power based lance fighting style would really be something in Smash honestly. But I can appreciate it for what it is now. I haven’t played any of the other routes yet, but I doubt they can match the Blue Lions honestly.
 
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All the lords except Claude (who is locked almost squarely in neutral) have the capacity to be villainous. See what Dimitri does in routes other than his own and try to tell me he's more heroic than Edelgard then. Whether you're pragmatic and logical (Edelgard) or an idealist with faith in fellow man (Dimitri) probably determines which one you like more. Both have terrible vices that will doom them and everyone around them without proper guidance.
 

Troykv

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All the lords except Claude (who is locked almost squarely in neutral) have the capacity to be villainous. See what Dimitri does in routes other than his own and try to tell me he's more heroic than Edelgard then. Whether you're pragmatic and logical (Edelgard) or an idealist with faith in fellow man (Dimitri) probably determines which one you like more. Both have terrible vices that will doom them and everyone around them without proper guidance.
Of course, after all they (and Hubert) are the only characters that will die in any other route other that theirs; compared with Claude which can avoid death.
 
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Nihilem

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All the lords except Claude (who is locked almost squarely in neutral) have the capacity to be villainous. See what Dimitri does in routes other than his own and try to tell me he's more heroic than Edelgard then. Whether you're pragmatic and logical (Edelgard) or an idealist with faith in fellow man (Dimitri) probably determines which one you like more. Both have terrible vices that will doom them and everyone around them without proper guidance.
I have played Edelgards route and he doesnt have done anything noteworthy there.
 
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I have played Edelgards route and he doesnt have done anything noteworthy there.
If you think a ruler with responsibilities obsessively devoting all his resources to misplaced revenge, readily throwing away the noble traits he strived for earlier and never, ever even slightly considering the possibility of negotiation (which one of his classmates, Felix, will corroborate if recruited) is fine... I don't know what to say other possibly arguing some kind of insanity defence, or thinking revenge is always cool and justified.

Random, but I just realized each lord can represent one member of the Kami Pokemon trio. Edelgard is Reshiram (Truth), Dimitri is Zekrom (Ideals) and Claude is Kyurem, the absence of both.

The last one is especially noteworthy as Claude ultimately fails to accomplish anything significant without assistance and/or inspiration from Byleth.
 

Nihilem

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If you think a ruler with responsibilities obsessively devoting all his resources to misplaced revenge, readily throwing away the noble traits he strived for earlier and never, ever even slightly considering the possibility of negotiation (which one of his classmates, Felix, will corroborate if recruited) is fine... I don't know what to say other possibly arguing some kind of insanity defence, or thinking revenge is always cool and justified.

Random, but I just realized each lord can represent one member of the Kami Pokemon trio. Edelgard is Reshiram (Truth), Dimitri is Zekrom (Ideals) and Claude is Kyurem, the absence of both.

The last one is especially noteworthy as Claude ultimately fails to accomplish anything significant without assistance and/or inspiration from Byleth.
None of what you describe can not in the least be compared to starting a war which costs countless lives on both sides. Quite in the contrary, aiming for the head of the enemy leader is the shortest way to end the conflict and diplomacy requires a position of power that dimitri did not had (outside his own route and there he tried it). Otherwise your options are surrender or fight. or do you truly think Edelgard would just stopped her conquest because Dimitri nicely asked her to?

And losing ideals when facing the horrors of war is not villainous but quite normal, even for a fantasy setting.


To connect the discussion back to the topic, from the three lords edelgard is the only real villain (regardless which route you play), which in my opinion gives her better chances in appearing in a future smash then the other guys. Because we need more villains in smash,

I will not join a discussion if Edelgard is really evil, if her motives were justified or not, or if we can compare her to Napoleon, Oda Nobunaga etc or if the church is as bad, worse or neither.
All I am saying that using the morality for a standard Fire Emblem Game (meaning unprovoked invasion = bad) she is a villain. And the others are not. Which gives her the highestchances of the three to come to smash.
 
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None of what you describe can not in the least be compared to starting a war which costs countless lives on both sides. Quite in the contrary, aiming for the head of the enemy leader is the shortest way to end the conflict and diplomacy requires a position of power that dimitri did not had (outside his own route and there he tried it). Otherwise your options are surrender or fight. or do you truly think Edelgard would just stopped her conquest because Dimitri nicely asked her to?

And losing ideals when facing the horrors of war is not villainous but quite normal, even for a fantasy setting.


To connect the discussion back to the topic, from the three lords edelgard is the only real villain (regardless which route you play), which in my opinion gives her better chances in appearing in a future smash then the other guys. Because we need more villains in smash,

I will not join a discussion if Edelgard is really evil, if her motives were justified or not, or if we can compare her to Napoleon, Oda Nobunaga etc or if the church is as bad, worse or neither.
All I am saying that using the morality for a standard Fire Emblem Game (meaning unprovoked invasion = bad) she is a villain. And the others are not. Which gives her the highestchances of the three to come to smash.
By your logic Lyn is a villain during her story in Blazing Blade because she attacks Lundgren's forces without ever having been directly provoked by him, the latter plotting against someone she's never even known and only has the words of Sain and Kent to go on.
 

Opossum

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It's pretty hard to have a continent-wide revolution without a war. Sometimes war is a necessary evil.

Edelgard isn't a villain, but a revolutionary. That's not to say she's morally righteous. Not at all. But she's not a villain. To call any of the house leaders outright villains undermines the moral ambiguity of the situation in an attempt to make it like any other Fire Emblem conflict. It's fitting a square peg in a round hole, and it's likely part of why the series rarely does true moral ambiguity: because anyone who isn't the paragon of virtue gets labeled as a villain due to some folks' insistence on maintaining a dichotomy, a binary that doesn't need to exist.

The Church of Seiros is literally run by clandestine lizard people who execute all those who go against the church and censor what information is available to the masses if it doesn't suit their agenda. They also keep possibly the strongest standing army in all of Fódlan. Rhea herself directly slaughters civilians in the final battle of the Edelgard route, something that NONE of the other house leaders did. She's judge, jury, and executioner when she's qualified to be none of those.

Edelgard's goal is simple: undermine the church, unite Fódlan by force (because no other way would work), take out Rhea, and do away with the current system of nobility in favor of a meritocracy.

We see and hear firsthand the effects of the church and the social crest hierarchy. Lonato, Miklan, Edelgard's own backstory, the atrocities committed by Ferdinand's father, Hubert's father, AND Bernadetta's father, the living conditions endured by Dorothea before she got discovered by the Opera, literally everything about Lysithea...the list goes on.

Rhea had to be removed by any means necessary. Edelgard, regardless of route, just happened to be the one to light the fire under everyone's collective butts to foster change.

Also now that I'm done with Edelgard's route I can focus more on making her moveset while I play Claude's. :p
 
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Nonno Umby

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Spoilers for FE 3H

Whenever I see someone say that Edelgard is the villain because she started a war, and "the end doesn't justify the means" I'm always reminded of an example I heard during a philosophy lesson in high school
"Imagine you are tied up to a chair, and you can only move one arm. You have a gun with you which has a single bullet in it. Alongside you there are some defenceless children sleeping, and a grown-up man with a knife, who states that he will kill all of those children, and procedes towards them.
What's the right thing to do? Killing the man in order to save those innocent children or not doing anything and let those life be ended by a bigger force?"
That example is litterally were Edelgard is now: She is the tied up man, the Church and the Nobility system are the killer and the defenceless children are the people of Fodland, who all suffered from how the society is structured (just take a look at Sylvain and his brother, Lysithea, Edelgard, Mercedes just to name a few who all got their lifes screwed up because of Crests), a society so broken that it will never recover by itself.
That bullet, the war, is Edelgard's only chance because, thanks to Lysithea, we know that people who had a second Crest transplanted on them will live a far shorter life, so she doesn't have the time to come to a peaceful agreement.

Also a little side note: Edelgard never justifies her actions, she knows that this war will be a massacre, but she feels that not doing it will be worse. War destroys lifes in the immediate future, but after a couple generations people and states do recover (take a look at Europe after WW2), while a society like Fodland's will keep destroying lifes behind the shadows, and might as well do as many if not more victims than a single five year war in the span of a couple of generations.
Still, people describe Edelgard as someone who will do anything fir her cause, but she also doesn't do anything that isn't stricly required for her cause. She can spare Claude and all GD members in her route, she doesn't kidnap or murder innocent people and she surely didn't order to burn a whole city full of civilians just for having tactical advantage.

Also Dimitri is no different, just like Edelgard he is a psycopath in all routes except his own, someone who doesn't even consider doing a truce with the Empire not because of different ideology, but because of a mad thirst for personal revenge, and a misplaced one at that. Imagine if during WW2 the Allies didn't united themself because they hated Roosevelts' face and how that would have turned out. Dimitri in the end is a good person scarred from war, and that makes him a terrible leader to follow, since a leader needs to guide his troupes with rationality and control, not follow their own twisted personal desire of revenge.

Just take a look at any Hystory book and you will see how some ideological war were essential for arriving were we are today. The French Revolution, the Soviet Revolution, the Independence War and so on. Those who are in charge and use their power just for themselfs or how it better benefits them will never let it go without fighting, that's why revolutions happen sometimes. Was starting a war against Hitler an inexcusable bad thing to do, or rather a terrible sacrifice in order to avoid a far worse outcome?
 

Nihilem

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Well I have to rely on knowledge of fire emblem wiki to answer that as I never have played Blazing Blade. But according to said wiki:

- had Lyn a legimated claim to the throne and was attacked because if that. This makes the conflict an internal power struggle and not a imvasion
- was she supported by considerable forces of her kingdom, which makes it again more a civil war than a invasion. ok in the game this support is represented by just a few dudes, but considering that battles in early FE were struggles between approx. 20 soldiers, we can assume that those few named chars beought a small army with them.
- (ok here I have to rely on wiki knowledge) was Lundgren a villain himself doing villaineous things to get to power (like poisoning the king etc) and quite disliked by at least a portion of the people (he is described as power hungry puppetmaster in the wiki)

Also the alternativ of acting the way they do must be considered:
In Lins case the alternativ to removing Lundgren from power is hiding for the rest of her life fearing assassins at every corner. With any kind of diplomacy beeing highly unlikely to succeed.

In Edelgards case she still would be emporer and could get rid of the noble system in her own country. She actually does that BEFORE her invasion. The other countries would probably follow soon as the possibillity of social advancement would be quite attractive to skilled kingdom/alliance commoners. (Compare Situation to Germany after WW 2).

So to sum it up, the Kingdom and Alliance (even the church) did not pose any immediate thread to her or her rule, diplomacy/ peaceful solutions where possible but never considered and the only reasons for war was her Lust for power. And that makes her a villain.


But I have to admit that previously FE Heros have done quite villainous things and got away with it because it was „against evil“ and the actual villains are depicted as pure evil for evils sake. In 3Houses no faction outside TWSITD are depicted that evil.
 
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