Easy Method for Sexy AT

[Wiley]

preferred trigger = jump
+ Side B lag cancel
Do the math, have some fun out there you speedy devils.

SHING...SHING!

It's essentially the same idea as Charizard's down b slide AT. Except you get amazing stage positioning and follow up with no lag. This absolutely wreaks havoc on slower big characters... You can either retreat illusion, continue forward illusion, Uptilt w/e it's just sexy. The same applies to the last frames before landing. Lag canceling is nothing new, but damn does trigger jumping make things easy for fox's illusion cancel.

the ideal scenario is finishing the illusion on the opponent when you can read a connection, this opens up Upair opportunities better than you'd think at higher % but at low % this is really just for positioning uptilts or better presence.

What's disgusting is chaining this into itself....... which, is pretty nasty for stopping momentum or killing time on invincibility after a kill. If you need air, this is the best free air you can get off the ground.

Also be aware of this same distance off the ground when recovering directly back on stage with illusion, you always want this move canceled for your own safety.

Not to mention if you do it the way you should, which is a frame off the ground it will appear punishable. Mix this up and expect the opponents best option on a grounded illusion and counter it. You will see profit. Just do not make this your bread and butter. It doesn't have enough damage and the trickiness wares off. Uptilts/nairs should still be the main focus in my books as their damage ratio is so worth how safe they are. But a well positioned illusion cancel can be just the ticket to start your left/right revolving uptilt play.

 

[Wiley]

I can upload vids of this in use if need be as well should anyone want to see potential.

but here's the charizard link in case that's enough for you to figure out the rest on your own, either or :D

 

[Foster J.]

Yes, landing with Side B has less lag, and often allows you to combo it into something depending on how the opponent gets hit by it.
Using it off stage as an example, you can use it towards the stage and hit them while they try to edge guard you, and while they get knocked towards you from the ledge and are in hitstun you can just jump Uair them, which is a true combo at certain percentages, but generally above 100-110.

It's nothing new sadly.

 

[Wiley]

Yes, landing with Side B has less lag, and often allows you to combo it into something depending on how the opponent gets hit by it.
Using it off stage as an example, you can use it towards the stage and hit them while they try to edge guard you, and while they get knocked towards you from the ledge and are in hitstun you can just jump Uair them, which is a true combo at certain percentages, but generally above 100-110.

It's nothing new sadly.

i'm talking about instantly hitting the lag canceled distance off the ground because I'm using a trigger to jump. I know the cancel is not new, but this makes it beyond easy to pull off from standing position, which is really useful in its window.

if this is common, I haven't seen it mentioned. And most foxes I see illusion for the cancel do it higher off the ground and don't get a true lag free follow up. Feel free to link where it's been said (@Trigger) and we can lock/delete the thread fine by me. I don't mind ha

 

[luke_atyeo]

I think theres a bit of confusion here.

Normally when you use side B in the air, it has less end lag than if you used it on the ground.
Are you talking about doing side B as low to the ground as possible (without actually being on the ground) so that you get the air version end lag without having to wait for your character to fall to the ground at all?

OR
Are you talking about some completely different type of side-B cancel?


If its the first one, thats one method to do it.
I flick my finger across from X to B to get the instant off the ground side B, which I find super easy also (similar to how the instant auto cancel short hop fair from brawl was performed)

 

[Foster J.]

i'm talking about instantly hitting the lag canceled distance off the ground because I'm using a trigger to jump. I know the cancel is not new, but this makes it beyond easy to pull off from standing position, which is really useful in its window.

if this is common, I haven't seen it mentioned. And most foxes I see illusion for the cancel do it higher off the ground and don't get a true lag free follow up. Feel free to link where it's been said (@Trigger) and we can lock/delete the thread fine by me. I don't mind ha

Okay fair enough there's probably no "guides" about this, but it's known. 1Fow1 showcases this pretty much everytime someone requests a Falco showcase, however he doesn't use a trigger, but just moves his right hand position to short jump on Y/X and Side B afterwards fast enough to just hoover off the ground. Basicly holds the hand slightly over controller or some jazz.

But it's situational, which Illusion is generally when used offensively. But remember the game is still new, so there aren't guides on everything heh. But forgive me if I don't want to watch a few hours of Fow's past broadcast to find the example of it being mentioned

You are also right though about it's not the most used AT, but that's just how punishable it can be if you wiff it.

 

[Wiley]

I went ahead and captured a little combo/followup w/e you want to call it session I had after making the trigger switch. I have a lot harder of a time with it normally so if it helps me, it may help someone else.
:D

 

[Timbers]

I'm not sure the reason for switching from default controls here? Using Y/X for jump, the knuckle of your thumb can hit B immediately after. Personal preference I suppose.

But yes, this is known. Immediate aerial sideB's are definitely worth using in neutral against MUs that you simply can't afford to be grabbed in.

 

[Wiley]

The only reason being it helped me out so I thought I'd share. You're absolutely right, it's all personal preference here, I'm just sharing a new one to me that's working out nicely. It may for someone else, who knows.

and no one is arguing about the cancel being known. I stated that, but to those who aren't aware I kind of have to explain a bit before I offer an alternative method. Nothing sad about it already being known, this is just an alternate execution.

 

[G-Sword]

Nice alt. To making it easier to perform. Of course its a player preference but it makes perfect sense. You hit the L and already have your thumbs free in position to do sideB almost instantly after. It can be more effective to do it than relying on your thumb speed do it. Gonna have to try it out see how it feels

 

[luke_atyeo]

its certainly an idea, I'm gonna try it out too since with my method (which seems to be the same as most peoples) you have to be careful not to hit the c-stick.
And if any of you came to sm4sh fox from brawl fox, you should be using a trigger for jump anyway (remember the shorthop triple laser, ahh those were the days)

 

[Wiley]

Yeah let me know, I'm sticking with it and enjoying the outcome so far. Ha the trigger for triple laser sounds fun, missed out on that. Skipped fox in brawl from 64/melee and played wolf ha.

But yeah good luck to those who get something out of it as well.

 

[jahkzheng]

I've played around with a similar short cut for similar tricks, except I just made X special and Y stays jump. Too used to the shoulder buttons doing shield and grab and I only ever jump with Y pretty much anyways. It's also much more natural for my thumb to roll from Y to X and avoid A than it is for my thumb to roll from Y to B.

 

[Wiley]

I've played around with a similar short cut for similar tricks, except I just made X special and Y stays jump. Too used to the shoulder buttons doing shield and grab and I only ever jump with Y pretty much anyways. It's also much more natural for my thumb to roll from Y to X and avoid A than it is for my thumb to roll from Y to B.

Yeah I can see that being just as viable if you're used to it. And it would take me too long to untrain over a decade and a half of R shielding as well, but L was kinda up for the spot with Z taking grabs. Although I do prefer Zairs with L trigger :/ maybe it won't be such a hassle if I trigger jump into Z now that I think of it.

As of now I still use this trick in every match I've played in since and it see's plenty of profit. Best of luck to everyone else.

 

[G-Sword]

I'm using R for jump instead. I like it. Much more reliable than Y to B. Way more effective with getting as low as possible to do the short hop illusion. Does anyone happen to know how many frames it takes to the shortest possible short hop illusion?

 

[Timbers]

I'm using R for jump instead. I like it. Much more reliable than Y to B. Way more effective with getting as low as possible to do the short hop illusion. Does anyone happen to know how many frames it takes to the shortest possible short hop illusion?

iirc Fox leaves the ground on frame 4. I'd assume you could sideB on frame 5, but I don't know for sure. There may be a few frames after leaving the ground where you cannot do anything. Hopefully this is a step in the right direction to finding an answer? I'm actually curious as well.

 

[jahkzheng]

Yeah I can see that being just as viable if you're used to it. And it would take me too long to untrain over a decade and a half of R shielding as well, but L was kinda up for the spot with Z taking grabs. Although I do prefer Zairs with L trigger :/ maybe it won't be such a hassle if I trigger jump into Z now that I think of it.

As of now I still use this trick in every match I've played in since and it see's plenty of profit. Best of luck to everyone else.

I should clarify... I use the GameCube Controller. I'm guessing a jump input to special might be smoother on the Pro Controller maybe. I've not used one so I don't know. Maybe that's what Timbers uses and that's why it feels easy to use default. I know on the GameCube Controller though it's pretty awkward to go from Y to B quickly.