Dragon Quest’s Hero out today! Post your thoughts!

KIRBY MAIN

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Hey everyone, so apparently the Hero is our today! Just want to hear other people’s opinions about the character after playing him!
 

Prison

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I think he has a cool kit for a game, however I feel like it's too ridiculous to be used in a competitive fighter.

I use the term competitive fighter lightly, because smash isn't even built off a fighting game engine, similar to Street Fighter or Tekken. He's probably a lot of fun in a party mode, but if it becomes apparent that RNG can win games, sets or even tournaments, I'll be pretty frustrated.
 

USAnyan

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Cool and different enough I like it. I do kinda wish maybe the spells were in a set order like olimar’s pikmin, or won’t let you get the same menu twice in a row like with judge.

So far I do kinda think MP isnt as much as a issue for hero as it really should. Most spells are pretty generous mp wise, and it even refills a lot when hitting an opponent
 

Teeb147

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I think people need to play the character first and it'll be easier to see how it all is ;)
 

VodkaHaze

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I already feel like we've got another DLC character that will break the meta, and he isn't even out yet. The fact that you have critical-hit smash attacks is a major red flag, since it means you could die super early due to bad luck. Then you see that down-B has like 20 moves, most of which are really solid, and it probably introduces more RNG with which 4 moves you can select as well as the move Hocus Pocus, but having a move which can completely nullify edgeguarding, moves which do over 40%, a reflector which you can still walk when equipped, who thought this character was balanced even for casual play?
 

Zapp Branniglenn

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When you cancel Command with shield, it seems you've got less than a second cooldown before reopening it. My problem with such a short cooldown is that players could repeatedly search for the Heal command on the other side of the stage as their opponent is recovering or has just lost a stock. Either scenario could award them as many as five or six chances at finding it. That could be obnoxious. It's low cost at 7MP, and they didn't demonstrate how much it heals. And while your spamming to find it, you could nab a helpful buff or two along the way. Critical hit smashes, and having MP recovery on basic attacks seems very sketch for a swordfighter that will have decent A attacks regardless of frame data.

There's definitely potential for this guy to be an overtuned broken mess. I would have made the cooldown on Down B longer or force the player to select something which reduced their MP and creates a punish opportunity if they're spamming in neutral hoping to find the buffing skills. He seems to have Simon or Robin tier speed stats across the board so he should be easy to rush down until he gets Accellerate on himself. I hope he has more pronounced weaknesses than we've seen.
 
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Teeb147

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When you cancel Command with shield, it seems you've got less than a second cooldown before reopening it. My problem with such a short cooldown is that players could repeatedly search for the Heal command on the other side of the stage as their opponent is recovering or has just lost a stock. Either scenario could award them as many as five or six chances at finding it. That could be obnoxious. It's low cost at 7MP, and they didn't demonstrate how much it heals. And while your spamming to find it, you could nab a helpful buff or two along the way. Critical hit smashes, and having MP recovery on basic attacks seems very sketch for a swordfighter that will have decent A attacks regardless of frame data.

There's definitely potential for this guy to be an overtuned broken mess. I would have made the cooldown on Down B longer or force the player to select something which reduced their MP and creates a punish opportunity if they're spamming in neutral hoping to find the buffing skills. He seems to have Simon or Robin tier speed stats across the board so he should be easy to rush down until he gets Accellerate on himself. I hope he has more pronounced weaknesses than we've seen.
It healed 11%. I dunno if that varies.

Basically you'd want to close in on the hero and not let them get buffs and heals. But it's possible that there's a cooldown on it before you see it again, it wouldn't surprise me. But considering all the offensive skills on down-b, it could take a while before getting what you want, you cant really rely on that. I would've wanted down-b canceling to be even quicker. What you're suggesting would make the character way too punishable. (and kind of unfun)

I think the mp recovery on attacks is perfect, but they didn't need the auto-recovery. I'd rather hero not become a campy character, but hey let's just see where it goes. People are making wayy too many conclusions without having played the character, and competitively it'll take a while to really gauge.

In competitive even just bringing up the list and looking at the spells can be slow enough to be at a disadvantage, so it's really going to be interesting to see how people get good at it.
 
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Zapp Branniglenn

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It healed 11%. I dunno if that varies.

Basically you'd want to close in on the hero and not let them get buffs and heals. But it's possible that there's a cooldown on it before you see it again, it wouldn't surprise me. But considering all the offensive skills on down-b, it could take a while before getting what you want, you cant really rely on that. I would've wanted down-b canceling to be even quicker. What you're suggesting would make the character way too punishable. (and kind of unfun)

I think the mp recovery on attacks is perfect, but they didn't need the auto-recovery. I'd rather hero not become a campy character, but hey let's just see where it goes. People are making wayy too many conclusions without having played the character, and competitively it'll take a while to really gauge.

In competitive even just bringing up the list and looking at the spells can be slow enough to be at a disadvantage, so it's really going to be interesting to see how people get good at it.
How do you know what I suggested to balance Command would be bad if you hadn't played the character? That lecture goes both ways

Anyway I'm not one of those that jumped to conclusions. Instead I said he has the potential to be busted. I said the same thing about Bayonetta before her release, but I'm also not the sort of paranoid mess that shouts OP at every new character addition. Simon seemed like a problematic design until I noticed just how slow he moved and how poor his recovery was in demo footage. I would like very much to know what this character is capable of if they'd just release him already.
 

helloiamhere

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As a DQ fan it's more than I ever thought we would get. I thought we were going to get Erdrick/Femdrick. 2 DQ NES midis, and like an Alefgard stage (which would have still been cool)
 
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Teeb147

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How do you know what I suggested to balance Command would be bad if you hadn't played the character? That lecture goes both ways

Anyway I'm not one of those that jumped to conclusions. Instead I said he has the potential to be busted. I said the same thing about Bayonetta before her release, but I'm also not the sort of paranoid mess that shouts OP at every new character addition. Simon seemed like a problematic design until I noticed just how slow he moved and how poor his recovery was in demo footage. I would like very much to know what this character is capable of if they'd just release him already.
I wont be saying that they're broken or underwhelming until we actually get to play them. They might be balanced as it is.

Down-b would only be used when someone's far away if it couldn't be canceled, since being safe or not can mean life or death in high level play where you can lose because of getting punished for it. I think that would be very boring too, since we wouldn't be able to use the full potential so many spells. I'd much much rather they use other ways to balance. (than not being able to fish)


I think it'll be just a few hours now. Someone said in like 2 hours, tho im not sure.
Getting close to see how fun it all is :)
 
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SleuthMechanism

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Navigating the spell menu already slows him down enough there i'd say since it's not like any competent oppnent is just going to let you stand there for a few seconds. Would be highly punishable if the player abuses it no doubt.

My main concern with hero is those damned RNG critical hits. kill moves should be consistent, it shouldn't be left up to chance wether someone will die at like 50% instead of 150% or whatever. I hope their effect ends up being relatively minor as i'd hate to have it "balanced" out by having weak smash attacks most of the time with the chance of having a stupidly powerful critical hit. Everything else is cool but cirtical hits are concerning for sure
 
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Teeb147

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Honestly, I would've preferred that whack and thwack not be in the moveset, and critical hits only be aesthetic, because those 3 things (combined with snooze, in example) will make people salty like heck in the competitive scene, and I already shudder at what people are going to be saying.

I think we need to prepare to ignore a lot of chatter.
And focus on having fun for now :p
 
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SleuthMechanism

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i also shudder to think of how much this character will get butchered in patches due to whining..(this is exactly why i refuse to get into tournament play with this game, too much of a headache to get into with the constant fear of having to relearn everything/end up wasting your time on something that gets abruptly turned into garbage)
 
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Teeb147

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i also shudder to think of how much this character will get butchered in patches due to whining..
I dont mind if they nerf crits and the specific moves that some people might not like, but I hope they dont touch the mechanics.
 

SleuthMechanism

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I mean those are fine aslong as the rest of their kit stays put/they don't end up being like sheik who basically can't kill at all now
 
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Miifighters4Smash5

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Is it just me; or does 11/The Luminary's hairstyle look like a Brown Version of the Hairstyle of Android 17 from Dragon ball?!!

then again; Dragon Quest DOES have the same Artstyle of Akira Toriyama; Best known for Dragon Ball, Chrono Trigger, & Dr. Slump
 

PKEarthbound

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Just tried him out today, and he’s a SUPER slow character. Not in terms of ground or air speed, but in terms of how quickly his moves come out and how much endlag they have. I think the only real moves that didn’t feel too heavy were U-Air, N-Air, and his jab. Though his smash attacks and overall range aren’t bad in terms of strength and range, so I guess it sort of balances it out. Considering all the RNG that’s been built in to this character though, all it really takes is one move to either make or break you. Don’t know how to feel about that, really. Also, it seems as if most of his Down Special’s spells can be interrupted (including Magic Burst, even though it’s a decently high risk move?), except for Kamikazee I think. :/
 
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SleuthMechanism

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.. guess i'm sticking with ganon and samus for the long haul after all, then. shame, was looking forward to a character with a snappy flow to their moves that i'd actually like in this game for a change.(downloaded the update but won't be able to play until tomorrow though so i'm just going off those word right now)
 
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Teeb147

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Just tried him out today, and he’s a SUPER slow character. Not in terms of ground or air speed, but in terms of how quickly his moves come out and how much endlag they have. I think the only real moves that didn’t feel too heavy were U-Air, N-Air, and his jab. Though his smash attacks and overall range aren’t bad in terms of strength and range, so I guess it sort of balances it out. Considering all the RNG that’s been built in to this character though, all it really takes is one move to either make or break you. Don’t know how to feel about that, really. Also, it seems as if most of his Down Special’s spells can be interrupted (including Magic Burst, even though it’s a decently high risk move?), except for Kamikazee I think. :/
I also noticed that when interrupted they can sometimes still drain the mp, depending on when hit. :/
 
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UnknownJ25

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He's a real fun character though I need to get a hang of his down special and his slow aerials
 

Ben Holt

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His Down B needs to be fixed yesterday.
Random just doesn't work as a fun mechanic. Since you can cancel with shield, we should be able to cycle to our desired move instead of fishing randomly.
 

CAL 2000

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I was very worried about the randomized spell list but they pulled it off well, very satisfied with the character
 

Pikmin-ism42

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Hands down the goofiest character in the game. Been having stupid fun playing him so far, though I'm not sure what fighting against him in a serious match is gonna feel like.
 
D

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Hands down the goofiest character in the game. Been having stupid fun playing him so far, though I'm not sure what fighting against him in a serious match is gonna feel like.
I did some matches against a lvl9 Hero CPU with my other mains.

Literally won every single one of them.


And overall, I love what Sakurai has done for DQ in Smash.
 

TriforceBun

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He's a really fun character that brings in a lot of potentially spectacular moves into the mix. Landing a strong Magic Burst or a well-timed Kamikazee is Ridley Skewer levels of satisfaction! I need to improve my normal game, though; I'm struggling a bit with his physical attacks, but when I go to the magic well I tend to do okay.
 

NuNero1

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The Hero is a really fun character to play and going forward, he will be one of my most played secondaries. His basic moveset is real snappy and he puts out a good amount of damage. I can't really tell how he is going to fair in the competitive scene, because he was just released; however, I do believe he will be a solid main or secondary for somebody once the meta settles in. The timing of his spells and the RNG aspect of his Cursor menu is going to take some getting use to, but I think the point is that you're not really suppose to rely on that menu that much, since he already has impressive kill power and other ways to send an unfortunate soul offstage. Overall, I really do like him and he's a welcomed addition to this amazing game.
 

OldHickory

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My immediate feeling was that he felt like Smash 4 Shulk.
Which is to say, a totally unique take on a swordsman character with a high skill floor and ceiling, but who is held back by clunky implementation of his mechanics and subpar frame data.
Hopefully, they'll get the Shulk treatment sometime in the future, with the menu being streamlined and their normals being made less sluggish.
Given the success story that is Shulk(i/e: best swordsman in the game in my opinion), the right tweaks here and there could push the Hero well over the edge into further greatness.

But all that's just first impressions.

Not to say I dislike the Hero, I really, really like him.
It's just that use in a competitive setting will ultimately be uphill battle most of the time, and occasionally killing stupid early.
Like, the first time I landed Thwack, the target had ~10% and it still registered the instant kill.
 

Doppelotter

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He definitely seems like a high skill ceiling kinda character. I was worried about Command Select being broken but I think it's worked out fairly well (honestly probably underpowered since there's like, 20 spells). Seen quite a few people try him out whilst in Quickplay, and it felt, to me at least, like a lot of his moves are really punishable if they whiff. Crits kinda suck though... though they happen infrequently enough that I don't think they're going to be that much of a pain.

I did some quick labbing with Whack and Thwack too. They seem to always instakill at 135%, but have a sizable chance to not kill even at percents like 130%. Might be worth throwing out a Whack at those percents seeing as it's low cost, but Thwack doesn't seem worth it even then.
 

Modesty

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Fun to mess around with but I feel like this character is gonna be really dumb competitively. Like he's probably low tier other than he is just gonna get lucky with dumb jank lol. Just doesn't feel like a character that belongs in a fighting game.
 
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pollo20x620x6

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Fun to mess around with but I feel like this character is gonna be really dumb competitively. Like he's probably low tier other than he is just gonna get lucky with dumb jank lol. Just doesn't feel like a character that belongs in a fighting game.
Its a good thing Smash is a fighting party game cause he's the perfect fit
 

Al-kīmiyā'

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High variability randomness is generally a bad thing in a competitive game, so the designers should have a very good reason to add it. I don't think they have such a reason in the case of Hero. Random spell availability is generally not a mechanic in the source games, if I understand correctly. Characters should be true to their source material.

Navigating a bunch of menus is counterproductive to fast-paced gameplay. Having as many different moves as Hero has raises the questions of why now, why this character. Most RPG characters on the roster could have had such a mechanic.
 
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SleuthMechanism

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My immediate feeling was that he felt like Smash 4 Shulk.
Which is to say, a totally unique take on a swordsman character with a high skill floor and ceiling, but who is held back by clunky implementation of his mechanics and subpar frame data.
Hopefully, they'll get the Shulk treatment sometime in the future, with the menu being streamlined and their normals being made less sluggish.
Given the success story that is Shulk(i/e: best swordsman in the game in my opinion), the right tweaks here and there could push the Hero well over the edge into further greatness.

But all that's just first impressions.

Not to say I dislike the Hero, I really, really like him.
It's just that use in a competitive setting will ultimately be uphill battle most of the time, and occasionally killing stupid early.
Like, the first time I landed Thwack, the target had ~10% and it still registered the instant kill.
yeah, if i were redesigning hero i'd do this in addition removing critical hits and alllowing for menu commands to be selected by intuitively pushing a corresponding direction on the dpad(ie: something like up being command 1, left being command 2, right being command 3, and down being command 4) i'd also make things less random but still with a degree of unpredictability and a need to adapt by essentially having it so that one slot would be a ranged offensive spell, one slot would be a buff of some kind, another slot would be a melee spell, and the last slot would be completely randomized but with a somewhat higher chance of having spells that don't fit into the other 3 categories)
 
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TheLightningYu

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High variability randomness is generally a bad thing in a competitive game
But I'd argue that's the thing, and that's the competitive scene of SSBU due their mentality don't get in their head. While Nintendo with SSBU might've been "more" supportive towards the competitive crowd, they never would sacrifice their target audience / their goal with the Game to offer an proper party Fighting Game. SSBU is for Fighting Games what Mario Kart is for Racing (Sims), and that's why i'd argue if Sakurai / Nintendo needs to make a decision to either add an goofie, funny and unique characters which comes up with RNG stuff and such, or add another "mere" Swordfighter or halfheartly implemented "Hero" for the sake to keep the Balancing for the competitive Scene, than i'd argue they would choose the first one. And tbh. i like that approach. Not saying i don't understand the frustration for the Competitive Crowd, and maybe they should consider like with Maps already (omega) to offer an "competitive" variant of the Character without rng crits and spells, but choosen few fair spells whatever...

#Topic:
Well as someone who don't mainly play competitive but rather play it as the fun-fighter Game as it is, with items and such, i really like the approach and had a blast to play with him. I won't "main him though.
 

Al-kīmiyā'

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i'd argue if Sakurai / Nintendo needs to make a decision to either add an goofie, funny and unique characters which comes up with RNG stuff and such, or add another "mere" Swordfighter or halfheartly implemented "Hero" for the sake to keep the Balancing for the competitive Scene, than i'd argue they would choose the first one.
Those aren't the only options they had.
 

Modesty

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Those aren't the only options they had.
For real, like Hero really is just another swordsman but with rng. Don't get me wrong I think the way they implemented an rpg character into smash like this is really cool and creative in concept, it's just really bad in the competitive environment. Idk why we want to treat this differently than we would a stage, or final smashes or something. Great it's in the game, but not everything in the game works on the competitive side.
 
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OldHickory

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yeah, if i were redesigning hero i'd do this in addition removing critical hits and alllowing for menu commands to be selected by intuitively pushing a corresponding direction on the dpad(ie: something like up being command 1, left being command 2, right being command 3, and down being command 4) i'd also make things less random but still with a degree of unpredictability and a need to adapt by essentially having it so that one slot would be a ranged offensive spell, one slot would be a buff of some kind, another slot would be a melee spell, and the last slot would be completely randomized but with a somewhat higher chance of having spells that don't fit into the other 3 categories)
It would be pretty sensible to just tie the bevy of spells with upgraded versions to their on places in a menu.
Just have them be tapped/held versions, like neutral and side special.
Boom/Kaboom
Sizzle/Kasizzle
Whack/Thwack
Psych Up/Oomph

While the spells aren't related, Bounce/Kacklang, Magic Burst/Kamikaze, and Flame Slash/Kackrackle Slash/Hatchet Man could be tied together due to their defensive use, explosive nature, and being melee swings, respectively.

Of course, that leaves Whoosh, Heal, and Hocus Pocus.
 

Steelmullet

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I love all the heroes quirks but he is sllllllllooooooow! Try playing a perfect Pikachu and sit back and watch as you can not do anything for 15 seconds.


I love them specials though...
 

TriforceBun

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I love all the heroes quirks but he is sllllllllooooooow! Try playing a perfect Pikachu and sit back and watch as you can not do anything for 15 seconds.


I love them specials though...
Yeah, I am struggling against rushdown characters something fierce. Not sure what to do when characters get in my face.
 

$.A.F.

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Obviously RNG can be bad but it also can work in competitive fighters. Teddy, Faust, Phoenix Wright, and Zappa are a few that come to mind
 
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