Dragon Dojo - Weekly Match Analysis

[Emblem Lord]

This thread was made to give the Ryu community a way to come together and level up as a whole. By breaking down high level Ryu videos and gaining deeper insight on their decision making, we can learn from their weaknesses, emulate their strengths, and really see how a Ryu player can become more well rounded. No player is perfect. No one player is going to have ALL the answers. That's fine. This thread is a way for everyone to come together, analyze, learn, and grow.

This thread is NOT meant to chastise, berate or belittle the players we analyze. It is a tool for the advancement and growth of the Ryu community. We aren't here to look down on true competitors that trade blows with worthy opponents. We are students of the game. Always learning. Always improving.

On a weekly basis at the start of the week, usually Sunday afternoon, I will post up a new video and we will focus on that video for a week. All videos will be linked in this first post btw for easy access. For the analysis once the week is near it's end I will do a full breakdown. What we can learn from the video. Good habits as well as bad ones. When analyzing here are some concepts we should look at.

Neutral Game - How does the Ryu player handle the neutral when neither player has advantage?

Advantage - Do they safely press advantage? Do they overextend?

Disadvantage - Do they take huge risks to get back to neutral or do they play it cool?

Footsies - Do they have a strong poke/counter poke game?

Stage Control - Do they maintain strong stage presence and awareness?

Edge guarding - Do they attempt to go for damage or close stocks when their opponent is knocked off?

Bad habits - Do they roll alot or in a predictable fashion? Is there alot of Focus Attack spam in certain situations?

Adaptability - Do they keep doing the same things again and again? When their opponent shuts down one gameplan do they switch to another?

There are other concepts too so just be sure to keep an open mind and try to really pay attention to what is going. This is an open discussion thread. Don't worry about trying to sound like an expert. As I said we are all students. And for the players who's match gets posted in this thread, I invite you to come in and talk about the match and give your thoughts on it. Again I encourage EVERYONE to post. Think of this thread as a conversation. I will definitely make good on my word to give breakdowns so don't feel pressured to give a full blown analysis if you do not want too. Just any little thought or question is MORE than enough. Now onto the good part.

For our first match we have Venom vs Supergirlkels. This video actually inspired this thread tbh. When I saw this, I saw things that I knew the whole Ryu community could benefit from seeing. At the time of writing Venom imo has the potential to be the best Ryu on the planet. The match I am posting is actually the second part of his grand finals match vs Supergirlkels at LAN ETS 2016. Again let's be objective when we look at the gameplay. Bashing or looking down on others won't make us stronger players.

So let's take our time guys. After all we do have a week so no rush. Just watch the video and post your thoughts and ideas. What did Venom do right? What did he do wrong? What did you learn to do and not to do? Did he give you any ideas? Anything that might change Ryu's meta for the better? Or maybe you saw some holes that Ryu mains could benefit from if they worked on that. Let's have fun with this and hit the next level together.


Match Que

Venom - Ryu vs Supergirlkels - Kirby
https://youtu.be/uAcIvSvwHok

Ryo - Roy vs DJ Jack - Ryu
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rOsB25FHh8A

False - Ryu vs Boss - Luigi
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YqGz6eS9_1k

 

[Ryuki of Spiral Rhapsody]

I looked into P1 of the series as well. FADCing back to the stage didn't seem too optimal because Venom just got grabbed out of it time and time again.

Which begs my question, since trying to grab the edge with a Shoryuken against someone like Kirby is (from personal experience) a deathwish, what recovery options would be the way to go? The gameplan is to stay on the stage no matter what, but stuff like this needs to be known just in case I face a god Kirby lol

 

[famedoro]

All right, I consider myself a low player but I'm gonna speak because this is the MU I know better since my best friend is a Kirby main.
I'm really relieved to see that one of the best Ryu in the world has the same problems I have. What the speakers say is true: kirby mess our combo game because he's too small. And Venom knows it since the beginning of the video and he goes for the right approach: Fair and Bair trying to bait out the kirby bait game. The soft spot of Fair is also a killing option because combo in Uair at high percentage. Another right thing Venom does (but maybe too rarely) is the down smash to space out.
As you can see, that little ******* sometimes can pass under even our FA and has some multihit to break it. We have to use the FA to move in the air unpredictably and break the rhythm of the game and use it only when we read a charged side or up smash (Kirby sometimes takes this risk to kill earlier, you can see in the video).
Since we can't really rely on tilt into shoryuken, our shoryuken kill, and it's a thing that can take a stock early and turn the match in our favor, has to be an hard read. So I don't understand why he chose Final Destination, Smashville platform can give us a semi-safe place to spam shoryuken and try our luck. The same goes for Town and City and his low ceiling is good also for the Shory (but for kirby too: remember that we are dead meat around 130-140 with just one throw)

Ryuki of Spiral Rhapsody : the shory recover means death only if kirby has the time to set up a down b at the edge, but we win the trade with the Dair. If you see him in control of the edge the safest thing is tatsu asap to come back as high as possible. If we are forced down the edge and he has the time to down b we have to hope we can air dodge and recover; if we can't, yes, we are dead, by his hand or ours.

(Again, sorry for my english, it's not my mother language)

 

[Emblem Lord]

Good post by famedoro. That's just what I want to see. Just some open ended discussion. @Trela , HoodedAltair , @DJ Arcatek come on dudes I know real life is a ***** but I am sure everyone would love if you contributed.

 

[HoodedAltair]

Was not able to watch part 1 yet but based on part 2, venom found himself not reading keys movement patterns. While Venom did a great job of not being anxious or rushing into a fight, he kept making predictable walls and setups that kels punished. You can see several instances of this in the air where Venom notably often picks to do a double jump which kels would bair consistently....or she would wait for the double jump and catch him on landing with a shield grab.

I think Venom is used to this strategy working on most other characters since descending focus attack is such a scary mixup but kirby being able to jump several times makes the setup lose its integrity.

I feel like Venom was thinking so hard when he was playing. He never got overly aggro but his use of predictable patterns lost him the game. I think this is a MU where its very hard for both characters to get in. As Ryu, you need to establish your stage presence and force a disadvantageous state with positioning and hadokens.

Venom's lack of edge guarding lost him a significant portion of this match. Kirby's recovery is pretty one demential but Venom would more often get hit by the blade then punish it. He also had trouble ledge guarding which let kels back on stage for free. Kels I believe often opted to drop down and jump from ledge so Venom might have found more success in going for a ledge trump bair or just to let her know she needs to pick a getup option next time.

But yeah I feel Venom felt lost in this MU a bit. He chose between grounded options where he usually didn't get the right reads and FH and DJing. I feel some Mr. R at Paragon starts could have been beneficial here (SH landing Fair in place) as well as some more walking shields.

Venom usually beats kels sonic so it seems he has to get this MU under his belt as well. Congrats on 2nd Diego!

 

[Emblem Lord]

Ok guys, Tuesday has rolled around so now it's my turn and then I will post the next video. Hooded covered some good stuff so there isn't much more to add but I watched the video and a few things leaped out at me.

For one thing I noticed Venom didnt do much to establish any ground dominance. Kels wasnt abusing Kirby's awesome crouch, so a few dash grabs definitely would have done alot to set a good pace for Ryu. Hooded mentioned alot of jumping and this can't be understated. So I will say it again. There was ALOT of jumping. And I just feel that the mix-ups and the variance of Venoms approach just wasnt there, so the double jumping lost alot of threat value as well as for reasons previously stated. Anytime a zone was established Venom would usually give it up with a double jump bait. Kels ran away freely and Venom didnt really take advantage of all the free stage he was given control of. I did also notice some forced aggression at times as well as pressing buttons in disadvantage. I saw a dair come out after getting comboed with utilt. That's not good. SDI is a must. Stay clam. Recognize you are in a bad position and work to get back to neutral. Pressing buttons vs strong opponents in disadvantage usually leads to your own demise.

Allow me to take it back to the neutral though. Due to Kirbys size and physics, going for combos especially with aerial based starters is tough. But we saw Venom repeatedly go for nairs that were punished with kirbys disjointed utilt. We also saw Ryus utilt rendered near useless due to kirbys height, though he did manage to land a few here and there. This really drives the point home of adaptation. When you see that your gameplan isnt working, the fastest way to lose is to continue with that same plan. Re-assess the situation. Analyze yourself and your opponent. After you regroup mentally, approach the match differently. Many times we get so caught up in just getting a win, that we stay in our comfort zone which actually LEADS to a CERTAIN defeat! If your opponent has already made it clear that your strategy is ineffectual, continuing along that path will lead to your own demise. There is going to be matches that we dont know or are less familiar with due to char popularity, tiers, results, etc. So being able to adapt and go with the flow of things is an important skill to have.

Ok, well we could go on and on about what Venom did wrong, but that doesnt mean anything if we dont talk about the ins and outs of the counter play and what to do in the match. Or at the very least, get an idea of how to fight against a character that can shut down certain go to options a Ryu player relies on.

Taking a step back into the neutral game discussion, Ryu has a strong ground game that didnt see alot of love in this match. D-smash alone trumps pretty much all of Kirbys grounded options. It out-ranges and out-damages every single ground button kirby has in his arsenal. And its only 1 frame slower then Kirbys 4 frame dtilt. Ryus ftilt which is disjointed at the foot can beat a bair or fair from Kirby clean. Same for Hard utilt. We did Venom use some of these tools. However when they proved to not yield results the few times he used them, he pretty much stopped. A shame because it could have been a decisive factor in this match.

I also noticed very little walking. Walking is great. It allows you to close space and still react instantly to any changes on the battlefield. It is a valuable tool that no Ryu should ignore.

Overall I would say match-up inexperience and Venoms overall play style just played towards Kels, tilting things in her favor. I am sure Venom learned alot from this experience, just as we did.

Things to take away from this set.

- Establish a zone where you can react to changes in your opponents movement, but still be oppressive with movement/pokes
- Don't neglect ground options. It's like only playing half a character. Especially since Ryu commits in aerial approaches. Mastery of the ground is key.
- Adaptation is key. If something doesnt work, dont be afraid to experiment and try a different approach or even a different way of thinking.
- Don't allow your opponent to draw you in. This can lead to risk taking and eating unnecessary damage. Recognize when and where you are being baited and readjust yourself
- Repetition of the same options can be disastrous. Keep focused and remember to mix it up.


Guys feel free to add more if you want, but I feel we all def learned alot for this week. If only the importance of not getting sucked into your opponents game. Remember fighting games are MOSTLY MENTAL BATTLES! You lose in your head and it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. Stay sharp.

Moving forward with this weeks match video analysis we have another well known Ryu.

DJ Jack vs Ryo. I chose this match because I feel Ryu vs Roy is an interesting match. By all accounts Roy has all the tools to handle Ryu in neutral and punish mistakes harshly. I am eager to see what kind of discussion this week will produce. Also interesting to note is Ryo seems to prefer using Roy against Ryu over his other chars Corrin and Ike. So maybe we can try to see why that might be and how Ryu can work around those tools?

 

[K1~]

In this matchup, Roy vs Ryu, I noticed that in the beginning of the first game and last game, the Ryu seemed to get punished after most of the nairs that Roy threw. The Ryu kept trying to punish Roy's nair on his shield, but the Roy immediately followed up with UTilt's, basically beating the Ryu's grab/tilt attempts. Another observation was that I think DJ Jack wasn't able to land many focus attacks due to Roy's fast tilts and nairs. His up smash, up-B, and dancing blade are multihitting as well, which are good for nullifying Ryu's FA. From personal experience, I seem to be able to land a lot more FAs on Corrin/Ike than Roy due to Ike and Corrin being slower, and of course Ike having single hit moves.

Overall I think the reason why DJ Jack won was because he was able to space well and played patiently. This allowed him to be able to shield a few of Roy's fairs which led to up-tilt true Shoryukens. He properly spaced so that he was able to shield roy's aeriels and punish quick enough with tilts or grabs. He didn't overextend by spamming aerials which would've lost to Roy's aeriels since sword > feet. DJ Jack was able to time well placed nairs, fairs, dash grabs (reading the rolls), and tilts which allowed him to get in or deal damage.

In summary, as a Ryu against Roy, be cautious of the fact that Roy's tilts are actually pretty fast. Expect more than one to come out in a row and don't let go of shield too early or you'll get caught. Roy's nair also has a deceptively small amount of landing lag, so another thing to watch out for. Try close the distance by walking or running in and insta-shielding to get into range where you're able to punish if roy hits your shield with an unsafe move. Your fair/nair/bairs should be thrown if you can predict and feel confident about them hitting to rack up damage, but be sure to mix it up and don't be predictable because Roy's Fair will beat Ryu's aerials for the mere fact that roy is a sword wielder and Ryu is not.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Really good first post. Good stuff. Exactly what this board needs more of.

Lets keep up the analysis guys. K1 gave us a strong start.

 

[Beanfox]

''''''''''

 

[Emblem Lord]

Ok, guys a little late on this one. Work has been crazy lately.

Saw some good analysis already so I will just add a general overview.

Game 1 we see alot of Nair from Roy. Roy's nair is one of the safest pressure tools in the game when spaced well. Ryo puts it to great use and really limits the use of FA to tank a hit. However Ryu does have answers. H.utilt and light shoryu can beat Roy's Nair clean as long as you time it right. Also a whiffed nair in Ryus face can be d-smashed if you react in time. After a blocked nair that is spaced, trying to hit a button usually just gets you hurt. If you want to regain your spacing after blocking, then rolling is usually the best option. Shield drop to punish a nair from Roy really isn't that viable/reliable since the drop takes 7 frames and if he jabbed, you will just eat it. His optimal spacing for Nair would be just inside the tip. This way he gets the most out of his range while still being able to sweetspot. DJ makes good use of Ryus shield in this match. Ryo definitely did not adapt to it. A shame because Roy has a solid grab game and lots of low/mid percent follow-ups.

Take note of how DJ Jack gets his kill confirms. He either uses shield to break into Roy's space or attempts a roll cross up on the ground, so he can take Roy's back and get a tilt confirm. Ryu can't really force a confirm in any match, but this match really shows that weakness due to Roy's mobility and sword range.

Offstage I would have liked to see more counter attempts from Ryo to intercept tatsu and shoryu. On DJ Jacks side I would have like to see him attempt to challenge Roys Blazer (up b) as it has no super armor in the air, but still has 9 frames of start up.

Didn't see too much ground game from Ryo besides jab. A shame because Roy's ground game is damn solid imo. Good dtilt, Double Edge Dance and grab game. He has all the tools to shut down FA as I previously stated. FA should be limited to movement only.

But going back to the interactions they had, we can see that DJ goes for shield drop a bit too much and gets jabbed for it. Even when Roy there wasnt anyway he would get a clean punish. If you are in range after blocking this then you can get a shieldgrab pretty reliably. Of course if you get a powershield on that second hit then you are golden. Go for a real confirm or a kill if Roy is in range.

As previously stated, Roy has a distinct mobility advantage and range advantage so closing that space safely with intelligent blocking and movement is key. Don't forget about your hadoukens. Don't spam them but don't ignore them either. If you get Roy off balance then you can position yourself under him then bait a response and punish. If Roy does something stupid, then an utilt loop is pretty free as we saw DJ Jack demonstrate. Baiting Nairs and then punishing with a quick dash grab is also good in this fight.

We saw quite a few bairs from DJ as well. I understand why. It is pretty much the closest thing Ryu has to an option that he doesnt commit too. Just remember that Ryus bair will lose to disjoints head to head.

Overall this match is really about picking your moments and maximizing your advantage. DJ Jack made Ryo pay dearly for his mistakes. Ryo either took huge damage or he lost stocks. This is how you win with Ryu.

Things to take away from this match

- Against opponents that beat you in neutral, proper defensive fundamentals will see you through. Good blocking. Good rolling. Good shield grabbing.
- You will not get alot of opportunities vs strong opponents. MAKE IT COUNT!!!!
- Don't force a confirm. Be patient. Wait for your chance to strike.
- Don't be afraid to challenge recovers that lack invincibility/super armor.
- For opponents that abuse SH approaches and become predictable, don't forget about light shoryu and hard utilt
- Hadoukens as a mid range poke are good for keeping opponents in check

If anyone has anything to add plz feel free. Next match incoming.

This one is vs a char that many Ryu players have asked me advice on how to fight, so why not showcase a solid Ryu vs one of the best Luigi players? This vid is old by this point, but Ryu and Luigi have been untouched by the last several patches so it's still relevant.

False (Ryu) vs Boss (Luigi)