Down to Business (Competitive)

[theeboredone]

Way too early to determine anything.

 

[Rocketpowerchill]

did sakurai talk about physics of the game
is it gonna be melee 2 or *** 2?
if the game isnt playable im not gonna buy a wiiu
the trailer looks dank as **** though to be honest
GGS sak

 

[Signia]

Samus' f-smash never had explosions to begin with.

What do you guys' think of Megaman's f-smash. I believe this is the first f-smash that acts as a projectile. It's range seems huge, even compared to other characters' disjointed f-smashes.

It'll be too weak when uncharged and too predictable charged.

 

[grizby2]

im analyzing the Mario vs. mega man video to get info on Mario's and the blue bomber's moveset.
I uh...did noticed something in particular.. that may appeal to MELEE FANS!

so while watching the match I was taking notes. and I noticed mega mans fire sword did 11% damage.
sakurai playing as maga man used this move twice in a row, he missed the first time, and used it again. it hit the 2nd time doing, again, 11%. (5:03 in the video)

so did we just see the REMOVAL OF STALE MOVES?

there was also another instance of this. he used fire sword in the beginning that hit nothing, used it again and it collided with Mario's Fair (none of them received damage, and they continued their animations, which it odd because I thought the collision would STOP the animations completely [4:30 in the video] ), then he finally lands fire sword for the first time, still doing 11%.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rqxDPJmO6f8

see it for yourself, this is a front row version of the match so you can see it pretty well.
the games still in development, so until its done, we wont know if they removed stale moves.

i'll keep my eyes peeled for more!

 

[Peter_Parker]

I'll gloss over 'metroid' but what do you think DK's right hand is doing? It's clearly his up-b.

Oh god... "Metroid"... What am I doing... I.. I... I'm just so embarrassed....

Well, if it is his up-B than it tilts which is pretty cool.
But it still makes me question Mario's animation.

 

[Demna]

Samus's F-smash in the trailer seemed to have been pulled back quickly after it impacted, reducing its recovery frames. Rumors say that it's a new mechanic called "move-cancel". There is no assured evidence regarding it though, it could have just been a regular F-smash in the end.

 

[TerryJ]

I can't wait for M2K to report back. I really want to know which game I should be practicing on for the new Smash. I know it's probably Brawl oh how I'm hoping I can stick to Melee.

 

[V-K]

I actually just pray that Sakurai might give us the option to alter the gameplay so much that we can change it to Melee physics. Imagine if you could completely change the physics and mechanics, everyone would be happy then.

Right now I don't like what I'm seeing with the Brawl air dodge and the hitlag.

 

[TerryJ]

I actually just pray that Sakurai might give us the option to alter the gameplay so much that we can change it to Melee physics. Imagine if you could completely change the physics and mechanics, everyone would be happy then.

Right now I don't like what I'm seeing with the Brawl air dodge and the hitlag.
Thaaat, just would not work. What if you and I go to a tournament and I play on Melee Physics while you play on Brawls? Do we have to decide on just one or do we each play with our own? If we each choose our own then one of them would have an advantage over the other. I'm not going to get into which would beat which because it's been done a thousand times over which game would beat which and that'll just start **** and we don't want that.

 

[V-K]

Thaaat, just would not work. What if you and I go to a tournament and I play on Melee Physics while you play on Brawls? Do we have to decide on just one or do we each play with our own? If we each choose our own then one of them would have an advantage over the other. I'm not going to get into which would beat which because it's been done a thousand times over which game would beat which and that'll just start **** and we don't want that.

I don't understand that question. The tournament obviously needs to clarify which changes are going to be applied. Then you do this in your version so you can train for it.

 

[TerryJ]

I don't understand that question. The tournament obviously needs to clarify which changes are going to be applied. Then you do this in your version so you can train for it.

What I mean is what would be the point of having two sets of different mechanics when all it will do is create a separation of players? There will be players who play on one set of mechanics while the other group plays on another. By separating them you're effectively shrinking the people you can play against competitively.
I mean, I get why having both would be fun for casual play but it just doesn't make sense in my head.

 

[V-K]

What I mean is what would be the point of having two sets of different mechanics when all it will do is create a separation of players? There will be players who play on one set of mechanics while the other group plays on another. By separating them you're effectively shrinking the people you can play against competitively.
I mean, I get why having both would be fun for casual play but it just doesn't make sense in my head.

Well, you are going to have this seperation anyway. If the game turns out to be like Brawl, all the Brawl players will adapt Smash 4, while the Melee community still plays Melee and PM. If you could change the mechanics, at least the Smash community can find an agreement on what are the most balanced mechanics for competitive play.

That's at least what I'm thinking since the Smash games in the past allowed a lot of Gameplay customization, maybe Sakurai takes it a step further.

 

[TerryJ]

Well, you are going to have this seperation anyway. If the game turns out to be like Brawl, all the Brawl players will adapt Smash 4, while the Melee community still plays Melee and PM. If you could change the mechanics, at least the Smash community can find an agreement on what are the most balanced mechanics for competitive play.

That's at least what I'm thinking since the Smash games in the past allowed a lot of Gameplay customization, maybe Sakurai takes it a step further.

The thing is that the meta changes a lot over time, and personally I wouldn't want to have to switch between two different games all the time I'd rather become good at one. That being the reason I quit going to Brawl tournaments because it was messing up my Melee game. Don't get me wrong though, I'm all for customization. It would be nice if the whole community would be able to all play the same game, not only would the meta evolve quicker but there would be a lot more people to play against.

To reiterate, what would happen if the community decided to switch to different mechanics after a couple months or years? All the practice lost. It's not like just changing stock amount, time limit or items it's literal mechanics we're talking about.

 

[Demna]

I'm not psychic, but I assure you that the game will only have static physic rules. If the physics rules are able to change, the game won't be as competitive.

 

[TheTuninator]

Well, you are going to have this seperation anyway. If the game turns out to be like Brawl, all the Brawl players will adapt Smash 4, while the Melee community still plays Melee and PM. If you could change the mechanics, at least the Smash community can find an agreement on what are the most balanced mechanics for competitive play.

That's at least what I'm thinking since the Smash games in the past allowed a lot of Gameplay customization, maybe Sakurai takes it a step further.

Changing the mechanics like that would be a ridiculous amount of work for the dev team. It will never happen.

 

[V-K]

The thing is that the meta changes a lot over time, and personally I wouldn't want to have to switch between two different games all the time I'd rather become good at one. That being the reason I quit going to Brawl tournaments because it was messing up my Melee game. Don't get me wrong though, I'm all for customization. It would be nice if the whole community would be able to all play the same game, not only would the meta evolve quicker but there would be a lot more people to play against.

To reiterate, what would happen if the community decided to switch to different mechanics after a couple months or years? All the practice lost. It's not like just changing stock amount, time limit or items it's literal mechanics we're talking about.

I can see that being a problem. But it's still the only solution I see for a good competitive game since I don't really think Sakurai aims to have the game competitively viable.
Maybe Sakurai could give us at least the option to play in "Brawl-Mode" and "Melee-Mode". I would love to have that.

 

[TerryJ]

I can see that being a problem. But it's still the only solution I see for a good competitive game since I don't really think Sakurai aims to have the game competitively viable.
Maybe Sakurai could give us at least the option to play in "Brawl-Mode" and "Melee-Mode". I would love to have that.

As far as I know Sakurai hasn't stated where he wants the game to be aimed at competitive or casual wise. I could be wrong though, I don't know. And since he hasn't stated that he wants it to be more casualized like he did with Brawl it's a safe bet he's trying to cater to both Melee and Brawl players. Plus we've got the Tekken team working on balance so we know they're aiming at making the game balanced and thus more competitive.

 

[BSP]

If you think they changed the ledges, watch Mario v Megaman closely where MM recovers from Mario's Dsmash. He makes a ledge snap from pretty far away.

 

[TerryJ]

If you think they changed the ledges, watch Mario v Megaman closely where MM recovers from Mario's Dsmash. He makes a ledge snap from pretty far away.

That and it looks like ledge canceling is back because the character seem to slide quite a bit when landing at an angle.

 

[TheTuninator]

I can see that being a problem. But it's still the only solution I see for a good competitive game since I don't really think Sakurai aims to have the game competitively viable.
Maybe Sakurai could give us at least the option to play in "Brawl-Mode" and "Melee-Mode". I would love to have that.

Well, he did bring in the Tekken guys for a reason. Sweeping engine changes like that just aren't feasible.

 

[KrIsP!]

The question is whether or not they're using the brawl engine , it is very likely they are which means this could be a non-issue. However, sakurai stated months ago that they were finishing work on their engine and namco had a working beta.

It just makes me sad that if they're not going to make a melee 2.0 then why make a brawl 2.0? At the very least we could say each smash game was incredibly different and created a spectrum in terms of competitive pace. Sakurai said brawl would be his last game if he couldn't think of a way to innovate the series without relying on new characters and stages, then this happend and nothing had changed.

 

[TheCrypticFlamingo]

Here's some offscreen gameplay if anyone hasn't seen it yet.

http://ca.ign.com/videos/2013/06/11/super-smash-bros-megaman-offscreen-gameplay-e3-2013

 

[V-K]

I hope Sakurai knows about Evo. And when the stream is happening we should tweet him the link. He should see how many people are still having fun with Melee after such a long time.

 

[Yobolight]

LOL @ anyone who thought wave dashing was going to return.

That being said, the game doesn't really look like Brawl.

 

[TerryJ]

I hope Sakurai knows about Evo. And when the stream is happening we should tweet him the link. He should see how many people are still having fun with Melee after such a long time.

He.. He has to know about Evo.. Right?.. Right??

LOL @ anyone who thought wave dashing was going to return.

That being said, the game doesn't really look like Brawl.

I don't really think anyone was expecting it, just wishing and hoping mostly.

 

[KrIsP!]

On advanced techniques, gimpy fish, bob$ and others tried a beta of brawl and while Florine's and speed was an issue they quickly found new ways to waveland and 100% l-cancel. They were cut from the final version after they play tested it. If floaties is downscaled and hit stun is racked up we might be able to salvage it.

Edit: and namco might be at Evo for their games so...stay hopeful for something. anything.

 

[TheCatPhysician]

I can't wait for M2K to report back.

Anyone know when to expect this happening?

 

[Shimesaba]

He.. He has to know about Evo.. Right?.. Right??

He didn't know about Apex - some Japanese media personality tweeted him with congratulations and he said he didn't even know that there was a tournament going on.

Evo is much more acknowledged by companies like Capcom than other tournaments, though, so he is probably a bit more aware of it.

 

[Funbun]

im analyzing the Mario vs. mega man video to get info on Mario's and the blue bomber's moveset.
I uh...did noticed something in particular.. that may appeal to MELEE FANS!

so while watching the match I was taking notes. and I noticed mega mans fire sword did 11% damage.
sakurai playing as maga man used this move twice in a row, he missed the first time, and used it again. it hit the 2nd time doing, again, 11%. (5:03 in the video)

so did we just see the REMOVAL OF STALE MOVES?

You do realize that moves stale only when they connect, right? Have you ever seen a professional Brawl match?

 

[Kyu Puff]

You do realize that moves stale only when they connect, right? Have you ever seen a professional Brawl match?

That's not how it was in melee. And is there any confirmation that they stale when they connect?

 

[Funbun]

That's not how it was in melee. And is there any confirmation that they stale when they connect?

http://www.ssbwiki.com/Stale-move_negation

According to this, it does apply in Melee. Otherwise, the standard HBox spacing strategy would have been super weak.

Also, I'm sure the stale-move negation queue will be the same in this game. If it worked fine for the past two installments, I'm sure they'll more or less keep it.

 

[grizby2]

You do realize that moves stale only when they connect, right? Have you ever seen a professional Brawl match?

are you sure?
also, theres no need for the harsh reply.
also that wasn't my WHOLE quote. I specifically noted that the game is still in development.
apology accepted in advanced

 

[Shimesaba]

http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/06/13/e3-2013-no-plans-for-smash-bros-dlc-tripping-removed

Sakurai: Tripping removed, no DLC planned, gameplay a compromise between Melee and Brawl.


http://kotaku.com/dont-expect-a-lot-of-third-party-characters-in-the-nex-513203533

Sakurai: Few or no plans for other 3rd party characters after Megaman. 3DS possibly holding back Wii U version from seeing as large a roster as anticipated.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Another Kotaku article

http://kotaku.com/the-next-smash-bros-will-balance-casual-and-hardcore-513211771

 

[Zauron]

Another Kotaku article

http://kotaku.com/the-next-smash-bros-will-balance-casual-and-hardcore-513211771

As a competitive Melee player that was extremely disappointed in Brawl (despite trying for a long time to get into it), I had already decided to write off Smash 4...until this article and the removal of tripping before it. Can it be? Is it safe to actually get excited about Smash again? I'm still pretty doubtful but...wow, after Sakurai's earlier interviews and indications of disliking competitive play, this is pretty significant. Perhaps the Namco team helped shift his point of view?

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

As a competitive Melee player that was extremely disappointed in Brawl (despite trying for a long time to get into it), I had already decided to write off Smash 4...until this article and the removal of tripping before it. Can it be? Is it safe to actually get excited about Smash again? I'm still pretty doubtful but...wow, after Sakurai's earlier interviews and indications of disliking competitive play, this is pretty significant. Perhaps the Namco team helped shift his point of view?

I know the feeling. I am excited, but my thrill is tempered. I'm resisting thoughts of a "new era of tournament play", but I am excited just because it's smash. It'll be nice to have an HD smash purged of at least a few of Brawl's idiosyncrasies.

 

[Funbun]

are you sure?
also, theres no need for the harsh reply.
also that wasn't my WHOLE quote. I specifically noted that the game is still in development.
apology accepted in advanced

Oh. Sorry. =(

Nevertheless, it wouldn't make sense for them to remove stale-move negation, as it was a concept since the first game. Keep a good eye, though!

 

[grizby2]

its all cool.

honestly, I was hoping the observation would make melee enthusiast cool their jets a bit.
but I do hope the stale moves stay, lest mega man's down smash will always do a static 45% ....scary shish right there.

 

[Revven]

I don't want stale moves for knockback. Stale moves for damage is absolutely 100% okay though and welcome.

 

[Takehiko]

IIRC there were no items in the video, possibly suggesting that items are not central to Smash 4's gameplay?

This was one of the most thread breaking comments I've saw on this
Thread. Good job.

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