Doubles Discussion

[Ripple]

Now that the characters seem to require little change to make them a viable singles character, I think we can manage to examine a character's potential in doubles.

Let me throw this out there first, there is not and cannot be a tier list discussion for doubles. We all know that there are an absurd number of combinations of teams and trying to list characters rather than teams does no good either since that fails to examine such a specific team such as G&W's potential to bucket and ness and lucas' abilities to heal.

instead we can try to examine traits that we value in doubles, such as the ability to tank, to throw out low risk/high reward moves, and the ability to interrupt an opponent on your teammate.

since this place will most likely be less busy than singles tier list discussion I would like to keep this place classy, as such please to not post one liners or just bad posts without thought in here. If I feel you are not contributing, I will report you.


I also highly suggest posting videos in here to examine how to play high level doubles or what team combination you'd like to examine and what strengths and weaknesses of the team can be found.

I will eventually have write ups based on discussions in here for each character saying what they can be good at and who their best option to team with is.

 

[Fortress]

I don't have too much to say on Doubles, but I will say that I feel certain characters would perform better in Doubles than they would in a Singles situation. Jigglypuff, for instance, is a stock tank for the aggressive teammate, and even has the capability to go farther out and finish things with minimal risk to herself, potentially mitigating risk to her teammate.

Doubles is also definitely worth discussing. I hope more people jump in on this thread.

 

[KingDozie]

General when i play doubles i try my best to make it a 2v1 as much as possible. For example Jiggle puff is the stock/tanker or a comeback character and Fox is the aggressor/he also like to control platform space. Lets say you have 2 character on fox and your keeping jiggz from helping or getting to fox, you basically win the match. I like to sandwich my opponents so basically surround the opponent team so they don't have that much room to move. In dubz is all about controlling space and using it to your advantage.

 

[1FD]

Things that I don't know how else to put it but HAIL MARY type stuff brings great benefits in doubles.
Risky plays and heavy reward hard reads compared to safe and calculated processes to kill people play very different roles in doubles
Often risky plays aren't risky anymore and often are even safer than trying to play a calculated game.
So a lot more overall vision and understanding of what's going on is needed rather than focus and conditioning to play well in teams
It's no wonder it took a back seat to singles for ages since most everyone plays this game primarily for fun so just plays a lot and gets good through conditioning
Doubles too stronk 4 brainz

 

[Fortress]

2v1v1 is an excellent formation in doubles, tried-and-true.

 

[Fish&Herbs19]

I remember watching Brawl doubles at Apex 2013 and one comment that I remember very well was during a match where Ally and M2K were teaming. The commentator remarked that when M2K went in, Ally was always ready to back him up with well-placed f-tilts or a DACUS if M2K either got hit, or if M2K got a grab and did a back throw etc.

I value characters with good mobility options and to a certain extent, range as it makes it easier for one to move towards their partner and stop a combo, or help capitalize off of a grab etc. Characters with projectiles can try and use them in a similar way although this is much more difficult and unexplored which is why characters with projectiles such as Toon Link and Link are normally not considered to be the best doubles partners. There are some interesting team combinations that I would like to try and experiment with as well as see people's opinions on, but I'm not too sure that right now is a good time for that.

 

[Rizner]

Good grab games or things to set up from grabs.
The ability to save a partner or get saved (fast momentum changing but not killing moves, eg. Zss upb or some nairs)
Stage control
Multiple play styles (can shift mid stock depending on where each character is)
Ability to clean up high percents

Might try to post more later

 

[mimgrim]

This is a quote from a Melee thread, but I think it does a really good job of going over the traits needed for doubles.

Durability: How much abuse the character can take if the enemy team decides to gang up on them. (ex. of good durability would be Jigglypuff, bad durability would be Marth)

Coverage: A character's ability to cover a location (vertical, horizontal, at the ledge) in a timely manner. Coverage involves mobility and smart projectile use. It also correlates to a character's ability to save teammates, get into edge guard setups, connect follow ups, etc. (good = fox, bad = kirby)

Crowd-Control: A character's methods for crowd control can vary but I would say that it generally comes down to two things: 1. how much space you can create between yourself and an opponent in the shortest amount of time 2. How well you can prevent two teammates from helping each other. There is some overlap between these two areas but there are definitely situations where characters excel at one but not the other. (good = Falco, bad = Roy)

Survivability: Pretty self explanatory. Pretty much a combination of recovery and weight. (good = Peach, bad = Roy)

Single-Hit Kill Potential: Also self explanatory. A lot of doubles can be exploiting the cramped space or preoccupation of an opponent. Since combos are hard to mobilize, single hits become more important for killing an opponent. (good = Ganon, bad = Roy)

Edgeguarding: Also somewhat self explanatory, if you are an amazing edge guarder then your character is incredible for the team. Fox, Pikachu, Sheik, and Jigglypuff are easily the best in the game at this regard. If your character needs to put themselves at risk to secure an edgeguard then they aren't that useful

 

[MrTea]

You dont know hype unless youve seen someone getting thrown into a warlock punch

 

[Ripple]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQhem8qppkk

me/Dart vs. Strong bad/Darkatma

 

[Ali Baba 177]

I am teaming with my lucario and Bizzbops Lucas, it feels like a really good team, still trying to find our chemistry though. What do you guys think of the team?

 

[Oracle]

ripple u should use dededes jet hammer in doubles its broken

 

[MysteryRevengerson]

Lucas is great in teams in my opinion.

 

[GrosMinou]

Ivy/Kirby, best team ever.

Or Kirby/Metaknight Since kirby gets metaknights old B (the broken brawl one :D )

 

[Paradoxium]

Fox/Ness is a legit team. I think it will work well

 

[GrosMinou]

Fox/Ness is a legit team. I think it will work well

I can see that...

PK-Fire into fox Up-smash. GG

 

[Saxophoneoftime]

Doubles seems really fun. I may pick up Jiggs for it.

 

[Ripple]

ripple u should use dededes jet hammer in doubles its broken

I refuse to use jet hammer unless I know it'll kill for sure out of d-throw. Id much rather just be in the air and in control

 

[1FD]

Jet hammer is like the sexiest aerial ever so there you go!

Doubles is hard to talk about

I find a lot of stuff about pushing around space is really good
Like forcing a certain area of the stage to be a dangerous place to go
Targeting like a character but instead of just going after them you hold the space that they want to go to and it like nullifies them
Hence people like Ganon can do so well in doubles compared to singles
He just holds the space and pushes it around you don't need that direct connecting stuff to make it work

 

[Ali Baba 177]

@ Ripple , you should put some doubles videos in the first post or keep updating it with videos people post on here. Thatd be sweet to have somewhat of an archive to look at for doubles and learn what teams are out there and capable of!

 

[Ripple]

These just got uploaded but happened a month ago.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PvorUlcp6Gk -winners semi's

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4DANY-TTH3s -winner's Finals

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lVqNQe0mbAI - Grand Finals

Spoilers

Spoiler

This was the First time in Years (yes, years) that Kels/Tink have lost any doubles tournament in the midwest when they teamed with each other

 

[DiggersBoy]

I'd like to learn how to start getting into doubles:First, how do you stop hitting your teammate?

Second, are there anything completely specific to JUST doubles?

Third, what's the easiest way to start to convince someone to practice doubles with me?

Fourth, what should I learn first?

 

[Fish&Herbs19]

I'd like to learn how to start getting into doubles:First, how do you stop hitting your teammate?

Second, are there anything completely specific to JUST doubles?

Third, what's the easiest way to start to convince someone to practice doubles with me?

Fourth, what should I learn first?

So I'm going to assume you play Ganondorf since that is what your profile shows. To answer your first question, focus on hitting the opponent and your spacing in relation to your opponent and your team-mate. I don't actually play Ganondorf, so I could be completely wrong, but he can space very well with fairs and jabs, and if your team-mate gets hit, you can punish your opponent with an attack or a grab. Simple things like just not throwing out large hitboxes (like f-tilt) and communicating with your teammate makes it easier to not hit your teammate.

For your second question, many characters play better in doubles than in singles and other characters do not. Doubles works in a completely differently than singles, so yeah, there are a lot of things that are specific to just doubles. You have to be a little bit more specific for me to answer though.

Third, this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pD_imYhNoQ4
Literally watching amazing doubles sets makes it so much more exciting to play and practice doubles. Play against a level 1 (or some other level?) cpu and try and see if you can combo that character with your teammate, trying to chain as many consecutive hits as possible. That's normally pretty fun.

Fourth, get better at playing your character and then practice with your partner and gain awareness. Learning what roles and what team compositions work best is pretty important, but learning how to support your teammate in what situations is extremely important.

Lastly, I couldn't help but noticing that your picture was of Kanade from Angel Beats! I actually finished watching that anime like 2 weeks ago and absolutely loved it!

 

[Mera Mera]

These just got uploaded but happened a month ago.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PvorUlcp6Gk -winners semi's

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4DANY-TTH3s -winner's Finals

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lVqNQe0mbAI - Grand Finals

Spoilers

Spoiler

This was the First time in Years (yes, years) that Kels/Tink have lost any doubles tournament in the midwest when they teamed with each other

Wow those matches were awesome. The 2v1 comeback in Grand Finals was hype. Congrats on the win against Tink/Kels O_O

 

[Ripple]

would anyone care to post some SKTAR doubles matches for people to look at? I didn't see any of them at all. They don't have to be the grand finals, just ones with good team work or interesting combination

 

[kevinw0w]

would anyone care to post some SKTAR doubles matches for people to look at? I didn't see any of them at all. They don't have to be the grand finals, just ones with good team work or interesting combination

http://youtu.be/diN4yT6WZ0E

 

[DiggersBoy]

So I'm going to assume you play Ganondorf since that is what your profile shows. To answer your first question, focus on hitting the opponent and your spacing in relation to your opponent and your team-mate. I don't actually play Ganondorf, so I could be completely wrong, but he can space very well with fairs and jabs, and if your team-mate gets hit, you can punish your opponent with an attack or a grab. Simple things like just not throwing out large hitboxes (like f-tilt) and communicating with your teammate makes it easier to not hit your teammate.

For your second question, many characters play better in doubles than in singles and other characters do not. Doubles works in a completely differently than singles, so yeah, there are a lot of things that are specific to just doubles. You have to be a little bit more specific for me to answer though.

Third, this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pD_imYhNoQ4
Literally watching amazing doubles sets makes it so much more exciting to play and practice doubles. Play against a level 1 (or some other level?) cpu and try and see if you can combo that character with your teammate, trying to chain as many consecutive hits as possible. That's normally pretty fun.

Fourth, get better at playing your character and then practice with your partner and gain awareness. Learning what roles and what team compositions work best is pretty important, but learning how to support your teammate in what situations is extremely important.

Lastly, I couldn't help but noticing that your picture was of Kanade from Angel Beats! I actually finished watching that anime like 2 weeks ago and absolutely loved it!

Thanks a lot for answering! I was gonna play Ganon for Doubles, but after finding my doubles partner and playing with him, I realized I actually needed to the the aerials and stuff for a while, because he's new to the competitive scene, and his "job" in the game is mainly just smashes and specials. That's why I'm actually picking up Marth, haha.

For my second point, I meant if there were any techniques that could only be done in doubles. My definition of a technique is something like Dash Dancing or WaveDashing or L-Canceling.

And yes, Angel Beats is life! I watched it about a year ago, and it's still been my favorite anime to this day!