Do's and Dont's when playing as falco.

[TheX0913]

So the purpose of this thread is to improve falco's strategies, metagame, etc. Each week we will discuss a video in the falco video thread. The guidelines are, what did he do wrong? why did he lose? what could he have done to win? why did he win? etc. So here is the first video http://youtube.com/watch?v=kgyIvi3PoP0
its your friendly neighborhood sethlon.

 

[Beetle Juice]

Sethlon played aggresive and spaced well against lucas. He punished lucas attacks by shielding it which gave him several openings. He also gave lucas little openings and punished him on platforms with nairs and lasers. Chain grabbed him (ofcourse) and used some mindgames like standing in front of him and then doing a foward smash. Right now this vid gave me a idea because i forgot the short hop phantasm spiked him when lucas did a short hop so i will use this as a safe method for falco's tach chase game once i get use to the distance of the phantasm.

Overall he just ***** =)

 

[null55]

The thing about Sethlon is that his laser game really, really good. He chooses very good times to pull out a reverse SHL or DL and flows well in to tilts, or u-smashes, etc. once the player is wide open. Great use of nair, and great flow between moves, which is what really makes Falco a devastating character; he's just beautifully persistent and relentless. Sethlon displays this, making Lucas look like sh*t. His phantasms are extremely appropriate. He uses the at times when they would be very unexpected and simultaneously necessary.

One thing I wish I saw were more u-tilts and d-tilts. I love Falco's u-tilt. If had to be anything unlike Fox's this is perfectly satisfying for me. And I know d-tilt is nothing really special, short range and all, but it feels very good to use and contributes greatly to Falco's "flow".

Haven't seen Chillin, so this is still the best Falco in my book...

 

[Clevr]

Like Shiro said, Sethlon's laser game is spectacular. He shields and dodges all perfectly, keeps space with SH, FF's, and sometimes doing the DL. When an opening opens up, he runs in grabs to start off the combo, Down throws, then goes in for some accurate arials followed by finishing smash attacks. He then backs off for a little bit, and repeats the process. The way Falco should be played.

Does anyone know how he configures his controller? I can't imagine he's doing Y to B B for those double lasers and laser cancels. I'm a Lucario main, Falco secondary trying to main Falco instead, and I'm in the middle of testing out different options for my lasers. So far, Y to X X for SH, Laser, Laser seems comfortable. I don't mean to interrupt discussion of the video, but anyone have any suggestions?

 

[Binx]

I think that this is probably not the right match to be watching, for one it was in april, 3 months of knowledge ago, so everyone was worse at spacing and using the correct tactics for their situations.

Big mistakes I saw were not using the upsmash after dash attacks where upsmash could have connected, also some of the lasers were off, he did a great job of utilizing his nair but Lucas should have been able to dodge it fairly easily. I didn't see nearly enough bairs and I saw more than zero fairs so of course we know he should have used it less ^.^

 

[TheX0913]

I think that this is probably not the right match to be watching, for one it was in april, 3 months of knowledge ago, so everyone was worse at spacing and using the correct tactics for their situations.

I agree but i figured it would be a logical progression to start from the beginning. Aha...i was just thinking...who knows maybe we will see the evolutionn of the game and can guess where it is going. But around 0:20-0:25 sethlon uses dthrow to phantasm. Figured everyone should notice this cuz it is a good application of dthrow other then chaingrab and it was quick and effective. Again, he uses his laser very well. This proves to be an advantage because of the lack of hit stun in brawl. The laser takes care of this hit stun. Sethlon shows this several times by SHL to up smash. Also at 2:54-2:58, when lucas hits him with the stick sethlon sheilds. But lucas' attack pushes him back enough so the none of falco's attacks are in range but sethlon pulls out a phantasm for a surprise and quick attack. And to clevr, sorry I have no idea what configuration he uses. Maybe you can PM sethlon and find out.

 

[PCHU]

That was the worst Lucas I've seen in a while.
He could've reflected some lasers with his bat (well, stick).
And he spammed PK Fire.
I know it's a good approach, but he could've been less predictable.
The Falco was all to good in this situation, so of course he would come out victorious.
I wish I could've taken Lucas's place and used Ness.......
'Cause he sucked somethin' awful.

 

[Hylian]

Lol that match is soooo old. Sethlon is much better now.

Has anyone seen SK92's recent videos? He improved a ****load. Watch him vs luciens fox.

 

[ixdnL]

Indeed. SK92's B.I.O vids are beast.

 

[Beetle Juice]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fM9HpDULaNM

maybe we need to start off with something with good stuff with mistakes and observe other peoples playstyle. This is Sk92 old match up vs foward in which he does good in the first round but kinda messes up in the second.

Edit: observe his errors and even though some were small it can still effect a match and failed to adapt to the situation.

 

[Clevr]

In response to the second video posted above this post:

Game 1, 0:00 - 0:50: He does very well. The only thing he does badly is his avoidance of Snake's grenades and Usmash. His spacing wasn't great, but it's hard to space well against Snake.
0:50 - 1:05: He gets a bit too anxious to get rid of Forward's stock, and plays carelessly, getting right next to snake and using a laggy Fsmash when Snake's Jab and Ftilt outraced and outpriortized everything Sk92 threw at him. Fsmash has range, there's no need to get right up in Snake's grillz to use it.
1:05 - 1:35: Gets hit by almost every one of Snakes grenades and Usmashes, doesn't really space well. Just tried very hard to get in close for the finished Dsmash.
1:35 - 1:49: CG's well. However, he then shoots a laser at the "about to die" Snake, giving him the opportunity to damage himself, and then recover. This has been something I have been wanted to talk to the Falco community about. Firing lasers at recovering opponenents really doesn't work. They get closer, get hit, and get to use their Uspecial again, usually saving their ***. I really don't think anybody should be firing lasers at recovering opponents, and that running in for a Dair or Bair or Uair, or just simply edge hogging is a much better idea.
3:12: Nice Bair kill. It seemed that before that when sk92 was jumping up to the falling Snake, that he was being pretty obvious about his attacks. Perhaps he should have stalled a bit more, waited for Snake to dodge, then gone in for a B or U air, which would have probably killed Snake.
3:12 - End: A bit of carelessness in the beginning, followed by some nice combos and approaches, followed by more carelessness which lead to him losing.

Don't feel like critiquing the second one now. Unlucky for Forward, lucky for Sk92, then Forward came back, and he shouldn't have.

 

[Beetle Juice]

yea in the second round sk92 gave foward the stage control when he let foward camp in the middle. sk92 should have known that the center of jungle japes is falcos strong point but then again foward has more expirience in the stage and exploited his weakness.

Edit: foward changed his playstyle a bit while sk92 played carelessly in the end of the match

 

[TheX0913]

Clevr summed up the first video very well, so i'll discuss the second video a bit more in depth.

3:56-4:13 SK92 had the right idea in controlling the middle of the field. After all controlling the middle wins many battles ( a philosophy in chess). He was completely owning snake during this point and even got in a nice chaingrab.

4:13-4:22 Forward does know this map too well and even he sees the advantage of gaining the middle which is what he does when he recovers with snake. Luckily, SK92 was aware of this and quickly regained the middle again.

4:34-4:40 After SK92 wins the middle back by pushing back forward to the side platforms with a dsmash, SK92 could've have easily kept the pressure on by short hopping a quick b turn around (where falco faces one direction when in the air and quickly changes direction to shoot a laser). This resulted in forward being able to recover safely and have a fighting chance at gaining the middle back which is what he did.

5:19 SK92 got to reckless and gave up the middle. He went after forward and forward's snake easily stocked him with an up tilt.

5:23- 5:40 SK92 just gets too reckless. He tries to even the playing field by stocking forward but in doing so he has given up the middle again! SK92 chases forward to the edge platforms where snake again airdodges and jumps right for the middle. Of course SK92 realized his mistake and phantasm to hit snake out of the middle. After this falco pressures again with SHDL, a good thing. When falco first re spawned he should've simply stayed in the middle and SHDL'd. Falco would've been safe and kept pressure on forward.Forward would've had to made a mistake because he would'be tried to jump for the middle again. Which is exactly what he did at 5:50

5:55-6:00 This is a perfect example of controlling the middle. SK92 punished snake with a chain grab and, of course, by pure luck, the spike lead snake to hit the crocodile thing which lead to snake's demise.

6:58 I can only say that the basic concept against a snake is too keep your spacing because any one of his moves kill. Falco after the Nair chased snake in the air and upon landing snake just up tilted. At this point SK92 for some reason just walked towards him and then turned away.

And of course SK92's last stock went because he gave up the middle and then hastily tried to run back to it. Good job on forwards part.

 

[Beetle Juice]

that sums it up now we need a third vid w/ a different player.

 

[AvoiD]

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=186834

I suggest Forward, kismet2 or BrawlSoldier.

 

[TheX0913]

I got the perfect candidate. Metakinght. we should post up the relatively new vid with sethlon against infinity because this shows the new tactic's a metaknight would use and how we should prepare ourselves for this. But since there are 5 parts, which one should we post up? any suggestions? Here is the link to the videos http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=183421

 

[Beetle Juice]

lets vote the order that way it will be easier.

1 vote for kismet (i vote for him)

Edit: we should have 3 different players that does well against good metaknights

 

[AvoiD]

I suggest posting up the first. We could see the (If any) mistakes Sethlon made in the first match, and compare it to the 2nd or another of the rest.

Whatever works though. You should also keep track of the videos you use in the first post, just for reference and that we don't use it more then once.

 

[Beetle Juice]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=diOZZORgOYU

1st match sethlon vs infinity

 

[TheX0913]

Arrite. So I'll start off the first video

Around :50 sethlon shows another use for d throw other than chain grabbing. He downthrows to reflector which helps keeps spacing and deals damage. Which is what you need when fighting metaknight.

0:53-0 :57 falco had the right idea in pressuring metaknight with lasers when he was on the platform but when metaknight got too close and on the ground he continued to SHDL which is difficult to land on metaknight under pressure. Not to mention metaknights dash grab range is huge. Infinity took advantage of this

1:10-1:14 Falco had the right idea, he got metaknight in the air and pressure him safely at a distance with lasers. With this pressure infinity made a mistake; he used mach tornado in the air. Sethlon then quickly seizes the opportunity and up smashes him getting the kill.

1:29-1:47 Sethlon nicely anticipates a d tilt from metaknight (after all this is the 100th time infinity has used it), Falco perfect shields and uses the chain grab to dair. From here sethlong (i'm assuming) understands he has control of the match and continues to scare off metaknight with several phantasms. He then again understands (again assuming) metaknights dash grab range, spot dodges and punishes with d smash. Metaknight is now in the air and sethlon SHDL and then infinity gets too close. Sethlon realized his mistake and stopped at once and got ready to defend.

2:10 Ooooo. Sethlon got reckless and chased infinity under the stage. A big no-no. Metaknight could've easily gotten the shuttle loop stage spike right there.

2:18 Again sethlon realizes that infinity just uses d tilt to grabs. He anticipates it, spotdodges, and punished again with d smash.

2:34-2:43 A marvelous spectacle. Falco again realizes the pressure that metaknight will want to put on him. Metaknight is right above him and why not dair? Sethlon shields, which should be taken not is in fact better in this situation because shielding always puts the attacking opponent at a disadvantage in terms of lag. At a low percentage sethlon chaingrabbed kept the pressure with a bair and then another dthrow to dash attack.

2:51 again sethlon read and understands his opponent so well. He knows all this guy does is d tilt and grabs. He saw the dash and of course the grab would come so he spot dodges and d smashs.

2:54-2:57 Sethlon sees a dash, backs off and uses the phantasm. While in the air, metaknight is under fire by falco's lasers. Here sethlon then uses the reflector upon landing because metaknight was too close. Good call on sethlons part. Shows he learns from his mistakes.

3:07-3:10 We all know how sethlon always kills with the uair when underneath his opponent. Inifinity must've known this or knew that he was going to get hit with something so he spot dodges. Sethlon tricked him! Falco then lands a beautiful bair which ends the match.

Very good match on sethlon's part. Also, sorry for getting greedy. I'll let another person do the next two videos.

 

[Beetle Juice]

its okay, studying his vids and others including my matches, mk seems to be at a disadvantage when he is mid air and falco is on the ground, thats my mk seems to do the predictable dash, grab or attack, or mach tornadoe. Close range mk seems to just dodge, grab and d smash. Most good falco's do the best 3 options: short hop and do a arial attack, down smash, or wait for him to dodge and grab. Mk by far is the most predictable character in the game. Mk can be punished if he fights us in the air when we are in the ground, for a example: when he fairs a falco holding his shield, Falco can dair him or do any other arial if possible. Right now I'm just practicing the reverse boost grab that way it can feel like second nature and use it against people that shield alot.

Thex0193 you can put up another sethon vs affinity or another falco player that does well against against a good metaknight.

 

[AvoiD]

There's always SK92 ;p.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GHORCjyRwY

First match against DSF in B.I.O.

 

[Beetle Juice]

Well... I don't k how to know how to point out what Sk92 did right and wrong when wasn't so... you know... good with mk (especially the end) but it proves my point in how mk does in mid air when falco is on the ground. Sk92 also punished DSF air attack and approaches. He also messed up his phantasm and I think he could of made it back on the stage, plus even a decent metaknight knows that they edgeguard falco on the stage with a tornadoe or smash because against mk's thats what falcos normally go for. I let someone else talk about the match.

 

[TheX0913]

I have a good video of ethlon's falco and a good marth. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-_Tsn4TZ84&feature=PlayList&p=AB4199BA770599A1&index=29

 

[Beetle Juice]

ok on the first sethlon didn't space well vs math and tried to fight hand to hand combat. He didn't use his lasers that much and his reflector. He couldn't edgeguard marth which also caused him that round.

ok second round he spaced well at the start and edgeguarded math well on the first stock (bair has a hitbox on both legs in case if no one knew) and sethlon used nair's pretty well under marth where he is most vulnerable. He pretty much won the match because he said "melee is dead son get use to it!!!" lol

someone else can say the third one or whatever i missed and thex0913 you need more people to post their opinion on this thread

 

[TheX0913]

thex0913 you need more people to post their opinion on this thread

Yeah. I don't know how to go about doing that though

 

[Beetle Juice]

um we can just use vids of metaknight since he does gives us the most problems (other than g&a) and see if other people can constribute to his match because I believe we can do better than 3.5-6.5 against metaknight and he has been beaten by numerous players (ex. sethlon, sk92, me but I don't got a vid =( lol) and I don't think ur chances are that low.

 

[iDizZzY]

sk92 has gotten insane.

 

[Beetle Juice]

sk92 has gotten insane.

yea he has gotten better since the sethlon match, and now uses the reverse boost grab a lot since then.

 

[iDizZzY]

Well... I don't k how to know how to point out what Sk92 did right and wrong when wasn't so... you know... good with mk (especially the end) but it proves my point in how mk does in mid air when falco is on the ground. Sk92 also punished DSF air attack and approaches. He also messed up his phantasm and I think he could of made it back on the stage, plus even a decent metaknight knows that they edgeguard falco on the stage with a tornadoe or smash because against mk's thats what falcos normally go for. I let someone else talk about the match.

are u saying DSF is bad with MK?

 

[Pan!c]

This thread started out with good intentions, and let's try to keep all discussion strictly about Falco.

I have a video I'd like to post, in fact, there's many videos of Sethlon's matchup with Melee-1's Ice Climbers. Sethlon lost this match, which makes it a good video to talk about.

IC's are obviously one of Falco's harder match ups, and this video is a month old.

What could he have done better? What tactics worked and what didn't? Basically, critique and comment, and we can discuss this video, and the Ice Climbers match up in general.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEgzegu-N7c&feature=related

 

[null55]

This is an old match, but critiqueable nonetheless...

Falco has the right idea here. Lasers and phantasms. Space yourself well, don't get too close unless you know you can move in for an triple A, d-tilt, etc., or a KO. The pivotal point in this match: Very early in Falco's 2nd stock. A rather poorly executed bair completely turned the tides. Falco is really susceptible to chaingrabs, and this one was kind of scary. A great edgehog on to get rid of Nana on IC's second stock pretty much saved Falco; the problem here is that he took a decent amount of damage in a situation where he should not have taken any at all. It should have been a pure ownage on that little *******, but all I saw were some AAA's vs. Squall Hammers until Falco finished Popo with 43% taken...

Really, Sethlon should not have lost this match, but he suffered from a missed phatasm right into the middle of the stage where Melee1 could just hyphen smash him to win the match. If he hadn't have been damaged so much damage from that lone little Popo, I doubt that would have happened...

**** happens.



By the way X, change the name of this thread so that the apostrophe in "Dont's" is where it's supposed to be.

 

[Pan!c]

That about covers it.

Spacing is really key to a lot of matches with Falco. One of my favorite things he did was SH, Laser, Running Dash Attack Cancelled to U Smash. The hit stun from the laser leaves them vulnerable for a few frames, and when he was so close, the dash attack to U smash was very effective.

 

[Beetle Juice]

well I'm just saying that it's nowhere near as good as his snake thats my only point.

edit: forgot the quote from dizzy it is a response.

 

[Beetle Juice]

i was wonderin what if you fight ice climbers only on the small platforms dat way they can't really chain grab you and if they chase you up in a arial attack you will be able to at least grab one of them due to their stun of hitting your shield.

 

[iDizZzY]

well I'm just saying that it's nowhere near as good as his snake thats my only point.

edit: forgot the quote from dizzy it is a response.

just wanna say.....his MK i amazing
if u have seen it recently you would know. and yes, his snake of course is beast

 

[Pan!c]

I was going to post this somewhere else, but then I realized that this is one of the threads that hasn't been taken over by immaturity and stupidity, so I'm asking it here.

Does anyone think the laser lock could be something for Falco mainers to work on and incorporate into their play style for competetive play?

 

[iDizZzY]

^^
of course laserlocking is something that should be incorporated. of course, its hard to set it up, but if u can get it, go for it. its an easy 15-50%. or on walk offf stages like delfino or castle siege, use it for the win :]

 

[Beetle Juice]

it is possible to laserlock if your opponent misses the tech from your d-throw if he or she DI's only away from you, i was able to do this and it is possible since all your opponent is thinking abouti is getting far away from you (talking about after chain grab and just d-throw)

 

[iDizZzY]

I seem to set it up ALOT with F tilts.