Dolphin/Melee Emulation Discussion Thread

[Superstar]

Hahaha

I stopped going there long ago.

Gonna use what I use for SSB64. A XBox Controller. It works fine for Melee, off, but I can get used to it.

It's like the deadzone is set to the optimal level already.

 

[Skrlx]

like MATTS! and some noob named Near

NO U
i'm no 12 year old with anger problems lol
but i was talking about SLlink Smasherx74 etc

 

[Tirno]

Also if you want to know a bit more into the junk, PowerPC's have a much shorter pipeline than x86 processors, this means that the 485mhz on a PowerPC processor could probably do more calculations than 1.0ghz x86. This also makes it so that you need a much faster processor to emulate the PowerPC. PowerPCs also have 32 general registers to store data compared to 8 that the x86 has. Which means that the excess data is going to have to be sent to the ram. Since this means sending data along the front side bus which is usually going to be running 667mhz or 800mhz, this slows down the whole process down to about 1/3 the speed just using the processors.

Shorter pipeline doesn't mean more calculations. In fact, it's the opposite. A pipeline with more stages can process more instructions at any given time. Also x86 instructions are more complex, so one x86 instruction probably does more than one PowerPC instruction.

Now that I'm done nitpicking, haha. Here's my specs:

CPU: AMD Phenom II X4 920 @ 3.43 GHz
GPU: ATI Radeon HD 4870, OC'd @ 810/1000 (core/mem)
RAM: 4 GB DDR2 RAM, 800 MHz
OS: Windows XP Pro 32-bit

I'm running the latest build 3089. It runs at 60 fps most of the time, with frequent dipping to 58/59, which is usually unnoticeable. However, it lags (Falcon Punch is too much to handle, haha) noticeably on occasion and is very prone to crashing.

 

[Narukari]

Shorter pipeline doesn't mean more calculations. In fact, it's the opposite. A pipeline with more stages can process more instructions at any given time. Also x86 instructions are more complex, so one x86 instruction probably does more than one PowerPC instruction.

You would be right on any other circumstance besides gaming. If you are encoding videos, or doing some other sort of complex equations it would be faster to have a pipeline with more stages, but with a gaming console you have to deal with inturrupts much much more often. Every time an inturrupt fires, the pipeline has to restart back at the beginning, so every time an inturrupt fires the processor will take as long for one instruction to go through the entire pipeline to get back up to full speed. Also remember that when dealing with a pipeline, the whole process will end up being the speed of the slowest part of the pipeline, which isn't always the same as the speed of the cpu.

Now that I'm done nitpicking, haha. Here's my specs:

CPU: AMD Phenom II X4 920 @ 3.43 GHz
GPU: ATI Radeon HD 4870, OC'd @ 810/1000 (core/mem)
RAM: 4 GB DDR2 RAM, 800 MHz
OS: Windows XP Pro 32-bit

I'm running the latest build 3089. It runs at 60 fps most of the time, with frequent dipping to 58/59, which is usually unnoticeable. However, it lags (Falcon Punch is too much to handle, haha) noticeably on occasion and is very prone to crashing.

Very nice, it lags on falcon punch on my computer too. I'm guessing that the loading of the "falcon punch" sound clip lags the emulator. Your specs are probably way beyond what will eventually be needed. So any lag that occurs will probably need to be worked on by the dolphin developers.

 

[MattNF]

Superstar and I played a bunch of online matches last night over p2p. They were FUN AS HELL. lol. The first few games worked perfectly with no problems, but after that they started desyncing fairly quickly and we weren't sure why...

I noticed that when the game starts, it take's Player 2's game data and loads that for both players.

 

[Zantetsu]

So, I've recieved a new computer and decided to try out Dolphin. It's working "decently" but not how I want it. Here's a video of how it's running PAL Melee (max 50fps): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMwdmbSY9yM&fmt=18

System specs:
CPU: AMD Phenom(tm) 9150e Quad-Core Processor 1.80 Ghz
GPU: ATI Radeon HD 3200 Graphics
RAM: 4gb
OS: Windows Vista x64 Home Premium

I plan on tweaking some settings to help the emulator run faster and more smoothly. So far, I've messed with some graphics settings that makes the characters a bit bright, but it runs the game more smoothly. I'll probably rip NTSC Melee while I'm at school today and see how that goes as well.

More information to be up soon.

 

[Superstar]

Matt, reason it loaded your data was because you transferred your Dolphin to me, and it had the data in it. XD

They were fun. I still wasn't used to it though. I sucked so bad until I set the controller plugin to XBox, then I still wasn't fully used to it. They were hella fun though, but if only they didn't desynch so much. =/

Me and MattNF live VERY close to each other, so, probably why.

Can't wait until Dolphin is fully working and more efficient, then netplay is added to it. Sound support is so horrible.

 

[Narukari]

So, I've recieved a new computer and decided to try out Dolphin. It's working "decently" but not how I want it. Here's a video of how it's running PAL Melee (max 50fps): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMwdmbSY9yM&fmt=18

System specs:
CPU: AMD Phenom(tm) 9150e Quad-Core Processor 1.80 Ghz
GPU: ATI Radeon HD 3200 Graphics
RAM: 4gb
OS: Windows Vista x64 Home Premium

I plan on tweaking some settings to help the emulator run faster and more smoothly. So far, I've messed with some graphics settings that makes the characters a bit bright, but it runs the game more smoothly. I'll probably rip NTSC Melee while I'm at school today and see how that goes as well.

More information to be up soon.

It'll be great if you can get it working, but 1.8 ghz is probably not enough power to emulate the gamecube. My brother has the exact same laptop I do, and he has the stock cpu (1.8ghz) in it while I upgraded to a x9000 clocked at 3.0ghz. The game runs fine on my computer, but nothing we do will get it to run on his.

I think right now were leaning towards a 2.5ghz cpu minimum requirement to be able to emulate melee based on what the specs of the computers that run melee so far.

----------------------------------

Also, I'll be free at 4pm pst today if anyone wants to try to do a melee match over the internet. I really want to see how well it's running right now, but it's sounding pretty awesome. Just pm me a link to the client I'll need for it and whatever ports I need to forward and whatnot.

 

[person701]

So, I've recieved a new computer and decided to try out Dolphin. It's working "decently" but not how I want it. Here's a video of how it's running PAL Melee (max 50fps): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMwdmbSY9yM&fmt=18

System specs:
CPU: AMD Phenom(tm) 9150e Quad-Core Processor 1.80 Ghz
GPU: ATI Radeon HD 3200 Graphics
RAM: 4gb
OS: Windows Vista x64 Home Premium

I plan on tweaking some settings to help the emulator run faster and more smoothly. So far, I've messed with some graphics settings that makes the characters a bit bright, but it runs the game more smoothly. I'll probably rip NTSC Melee while I'm at school today and see how that goes as well.

More information to be up soon.

That looked like a cover program from your computer you used to record. No lag from it? If so, what program were you using? Also, anyone know how much RAM would be required yet? I'm not a huge techy, but at least I know enough stuff. lol

 

[Superstar]

It desynchs a lot, Melee over the nets. If only they could fix that...

I dunno about 2.5Ghz duo yet, since everyone in this thread has a 3Ghz duo or higher. Either way it barely runs on my comp. Runs, but not perfectly, 4 player matches lag, or at least Jungle Japes [whatever the waterfall course is called].

BH, that a desktop? If so I can link you to some CPUs if you want to upgrade.

 

[Narukari]

That looked like a cover program from your computer you used to record. No lag from it? If so, what program were you using? Also, anyone know how much RAM would be required yet? I'm not a huge techy, but at least I know enough stuff. lol

Ram isn't going to be a big issue, as long as you have enough to run both windows and dolphin without using any virtual ram you will be fine. Make sure to turn off all background programs too to make sure you have ram.

I think with just windows you will need 1GB for xp and 2GB for vista/Win7

And yes, we definitly would like to know what program was used, It's really hard finding a good screen cap program that won't the emulator.

 

[person701]

Ram isn't going to be a big issue, as long as you have enough to run both windows and dolphin without using any virtual ram you will be fine. Make sure to turn off all background programs too to make sure you have ram.

I think with just windows you will need 1GB for xp and 2GB for vista/Win7

And yes, we definitly would like to know what program was used, It's really hard finding a good screen cap program that won't the emulator.

How you think 512Mb RAM would work?

 

[Narukari]

How you think 512Mb RAM would work?

It could work, but you would be very hard pressed for memory.

I think melee takes about 200MB of ram while running, so you would need to make sure that you don't fill up the rest of your ram with other things, and you would definitly have to be using Windows XP.

 

[Witchking_of_Angmar]

....or a linux distro of some sort. Speaking of which, Ubuntu 9.04 caused my Dolphin to stop working. True story. Which means I also can't continue my project to finish Seanson's hitbox system.

 

[MattNF]

Matt, reason it loaded your data was because you transferred your Dolphin to me, and it had the data in it. XD

They were fun. I still wasn't used to it though. I sucked so bad until I set the controller plugin to XBox, then I still wasn't fully used to it. They were hella fun though, but if only they didn't desynch so much. =/

Me and MattNF live VERY close to each other, so, probably why.

Can't wait until Dolphin is fully working and more efficient, then netplay is added to it. Sound support is so horrible.

Heh, oh yeah. I forgot I gave you my Dolphin.

Dolphin definitely needs more optimization. Melee is a last-generation game, yet it takes as much processing power as, say, Team Fortress 2 at max settings.

Narukari, I'll play you today. I'll be home at around 6PM EST. I'm not sure about port forwarding and all that stuff though - Superstar knows how to get it set up, you should ask him.

 

[Narukari]

Thats great, I'm off to class at this second so I'll be back in about 2.5 hours to set things up. It's 1:30 right now.

 

[MattNF]

Thats great, I'm off to class at this second so I'll be back in about 2.5 hours to set things up. It's 1:30 right now.

Cool. There will probably be a little bit of button delay due to the fact that we're on seperate sides of the US. It'll still be playable, though.

 

[Superstar]

I played Narukai a bit, and MattNF.

While the process is farther than I thought, it needs a LOT of work. First of all, the emulation isn't perfect. A lot of problems especially with sound, and it needs a bleeding edge PC to run it [mine just barely works, it's 60FPS but dips often]. Second, netcode is bad, or rather, the synching of the netcode. It desynchs a lot, if the emulator would allow it's FPS to drop if it's not receiving a packet it'd be much better.

Also, drop game button needs to work. You need to restart the emulator if it desynchs. Pressin the stop button makes the client work.

As far as netlag though, Melee is more than playable vs someone in the same state, but with someone across the country it's difficult to do slightly more advanced stuff. Good for midlevel players, I can imagine pros struggling with across country games.

Also, use November P2P. The P2P it comes with is CRAP.

 

[Rikana]

AMD Athlon 64x2 Dual Core Processor 6000+
3.01 GHz and 3.5gb RAM

I'm using the latest Dolphin. I checked the task manager and it runs like 90%+ of my cpu memory. Does it use up this much for everyone else as well?

I used fraps to record and it lagged like a *****.

 

[Narukari]

AMD Athlon 64x2 Dual Core Processor 6000+
3.01 GHz and 3.5gb RAM

I'm using the latest Dolphin. I checked the task manager and it runs like 90%+ of my cpu memory. Does it use up this much for everyone else as well?

I used fraps to record and it lagged like a *****.

Yep, it will use as much processing power as possible.

 

[Rikana]

I'm trying to record it without making it lag so badly. Any recommended software that can record on screen without hogging too much processing power?

Dolphin has certainly improved though. Just back then about 2 years ago, it couldn't run Melee properly. I'm hyped up to see Melee fully playable with online.. but that won't happen for probably another year or two.

 

[person701]

I'd give it a year. This small thread is enough progress for me to conclude. As for an on screen recording program, whoever I asked should resopnd. If all else fails, just you a camera off screen. Doesn't slow anything, just have to trade it out for not so good quality.

 

[MattNF]

AMD Athlon 64x2 Dual Core Processor 6000+
3.01 GHz and 3.5gb RAM

I'm using the latest Dolphin. I checked the task manager and it runs like 90%+ of my cpu memory. Does it use up this much for everyone else as well?

I used fraps to record and it lagged like a *****.

I used fraps and it didn't lag. But it was also the smallest resolution and no Antialiasing.

 

[Vsin]

So, I've recieved a new computer and decided to try out Dolphin. It's working "decently" but not how I want it. Here's a video of how it's running PAL Melee (max 50fps): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMwdmbSY9yM&fmt=18

System specs:
CPU: AMD Phenom(tm) 9150e Quad-Core Processor 1.80 Ghz
GPU: ATI Radeon HD 3200 Graphics
RAM: 4gb
OS: Windows Vista x64 Home Premium

I plan on tweaking some settings to help the emulator run faster and more smoothly. So far, I've messed with some graphics settings that makes the characters a bit bright, but it runs the game more smoothly. I'll probably rip NTSC Melee while I'm at school today and see how that goes as well.

More information to be up soon.

This may or may not be the problem. After watching your video, I can safely conclude that my computer WHICH IS FAR WORSE runs at about the same speed.

CPU: 2.6 Ghz Intel Dual Core (not Core2)
GPU: Nvidia 9600 - 512mb VRAM -
RAM: 2.5gb (one 2gb slot, one .5 from my old 1gb set)
OS: Windows Vista 32 bit Home

Just a random idea, but change the compatibility to XP? I don't have the ability to try this yet (for some reason my parents find the need to disable my computer for the weekdays T_T)

 

[Superstar]

Far worse? Your computer is far better.

See, quad core doesn't mean CPU times 4, it means 4 CPUs. While certain quad cores run single threaded programs better than the same speed duo, overall, a quad core of 2Ghz runs a program the same as a single core of 2Ghz. Dolphin in Dual Core mode gets better performance from a 2.6Ghz Duo than a 2Ghz Quad. Most games overall do.

Also, the Nvidia 9600GT curbstomps the Radeon HD 3200. The RAM you have is enough, more RAM does not mean a faster computer. So long as your CPU isn't a Celeron you should be fine.

I think BH's computer is a laptop. ATI 3200 is an integrated card, and that quad core is low.

EDIT: Add into account that ATI/AMD CPUs don't multitask as well as Intel ones. Although, they are significantly cheaper.

 

[Narukari]

From what I've seen/heard, your graphics card makes very little difference in the speed of dolphin. The bottleneck is in cpu power, but an integrated card might still have problems rendering the scene from a gamecube game.

Dual/quad core doesn't quite mean 2/4 cpus. It just means multiple cores in one cpu. You'll find multi cpu boards when you start looking at server machines. You are correct that a quad core cpu won't help dolphin any more than a dual core cpu would. The program can only be configured to run two threads at the same time. Even then, a 5ghz single core cpu would probably perform better than even a 3ghz dual core cpu in processing, since you lose efficency when you have to code a program into multiple threads.

And changing the compatability to xp won't do anything. It's there mainly to bypass the OS checks that old software will have. If it required 95-xp and your computer reads as Vista, then it will throw you an error saying you have an incompatable OS. Setting your compatablility to xp will tell the program that your OS is XP so that it will boot.

edit: Yea I've tried the netplay now and I think to get good syncs we might need to add a plugin to resync the game every 1-2 seconds. Is the kaillara client open source? If so, then I could take a look into what is possible with state saving/loading between the host/client and how long it would take. We would need to keep it down to somewhere between 10-30ms to keep it playable. That way it shouldn't be too noticeable when the game is loading a state, it would just appear as 3 frame button delay instead of 2 frame button delay.

I'd give it a year. This small thread is enough progress for me to conclude. As for an on screen recording program, whoever I asked should resopnd. If all else fails, just you a camera off screen. Doesn't slow anything, just have to trade it out for not so good quality.

I don't think a year will be enough to get melee running the same on all machines everywhere, which is how kaillara is able to work on Smash64. It is going to require some changes in how networked play is achieved, which I hope to be the state save/load plan I'm comming up with.

 

[Superstar]

Well, Quad core meaning 4 cores on one CPU instead of 4 CPUs is being pedantic. XD For all intents and purposes it's like having 4 CPUs. More efficient to have 4 cores on one CPU with hyperthreading and all that, but, yeah.

If GFX doesn't mean much, they should make it mean something. Quite a lot of untapped power they could use there [but probably they mean because the GPU in the gamecube is pretty low end].
__________________

Nah, it doesn't work like that at all. Kaillera isn't open source, but there is no difference on Kaillera between any emulator. Kaillera is just a front end for the socket crap. The way netplay works is by sending controller button inputs, that's it. The way a game is synced is by how the game recieves those packets. You can hotswap the Client for another one, no difference really.

The way to fix the Dolphin netplay is to make it forefully lag when it's behind. See, what happens now is if one game isn't steady 60FPS, and the other is, it'll desynch because it's not getting the 60FPS to lag. In SSB64, any lag on one side turns into lag on the other. Probably the best way to acheive this is to put the packet reading stuff at the same place as the interrup that deals with FPS or whatever. If it doesn't get the signal, it'll stall the game until it does.

Button delay is precalculated before the game starts, you can see it if you use a GOOD Kaillera Client [me and MattNF changed the client, same DS because the "glue" is all the same, but it gives more information like the Delay]. So, if you have a giant spike during loading and it's 12 frames of delay, you need to reload the game to get it to more reasonable button delay [smoothing adds button delay].

That's more or less why some people may choose to add button delay. Because if the emulator does the netplay right, it'll lag if a signal is taking too long.

 

[MuraRengan]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GawL-8YQTUA

This is a vid of people playing Melee online with a Dolphin emulator. IDK if this is old, but it'd be cool if it was added to the main post, so people will know that this is already possible.

 

[Superstar]

Hahaha

Me vs MattNF. :D

I sucked so bad. It isn't really possible though, there's a reason we played 2 stocks. Cause it always desynchs.

 

[MattNF]

Hahaha

Me vs MattNF. :D

I sucked so bad. It isn't really possible though, there's a reason we played 2 stocks. Cause it always desynchs.

Near told me he's working on an improved Dolphin client, which won't desync as often online. :D

 

[Superstar]

:D

/10awesomes

If only I knew C++. Ah well.

Make it come with November P2P and I'm sold.

EDIT: And a newer Dolphin

 

[Skrlx]

:D

/10awesomes

If only I knew C++. Ah well.

Make it come with November P2P and I'm sold.

EDIT: And a newer Dolphin

Hey superstar... what's a GOOD nvidia gfx card

 

[Superstar]

Good? Well, good is mostly subjective, or rather, when a graphics card becomes "good". 9600GT will run almost everything max sans Crysis [and maybe a few others], and a 9800GT performs much better for only a little more cash. A 9500GT is a lot worse than a 9600GT [9600GT has 50% better or something], but people are still capable of gaming with 9400GTs. Obviously, the GTX of each are much better. If you want "best", I hear the 295GTX is hardcore, but it's insanely priced.

In the newer line, the 9 series are 1xx, and the upper end "new" cards are 2xx. The 275GT is also a pretty good card and much cheaper than a 295GT.

An 8800GT = 9600GT or so I've heard.

Why would you ask that though?

 

[Skrlx]

Good? Well, good is mostly subjective, or rather, when a graphics card becomes "good". 9600GT will run almost everything max sans Crysis [and maybe a few others], and a 9800GT performs much better for only a little more cash. A 9500GT is a lot worse than a 9600GT [9600GT has 50% better or something], but people are still capable of gaming with 9400GTs. Obviously, the GTX of each are much better. If you want "best", I hear the 295GTX is hardcore, but it's insanely priced.

In the newer line, the 9 series are 1xx, and the upper end "new" cards are 2xx. The 275GT is also a pretty good card and much cheaper than a 295GT.

An 8800GT = 9600GT or so I've heard.

Why would you ask that though?

Building another PC
and i'm looking for a good card. (something that will help with dolphin but more of the "quality" of the card.

 

[Skrlx]

Oh yeah.. i7? or quad core intel ;_;
i hear i7 is worthless for gaming right now

 

[Superstar]

I hear otherwise. It depends, I'd just get the E8500 [I got the E8400]. For gaming dual cores are better right now.

If you want a quad core Intel make it 3Ghz, but those are expensive. It depends on the socket type you're going for I assume.

About the GFX, depends on your budget, but 9800GT or GTX is a nice card if you don't need "top of the line". 9800GTXs can come under 150 bucks. Note that every single 2xx beats the 9800 unless it's a GS or worse.

Lol at offtopic-ness, but you're talking about for Dolphin.

 

[MattNF]

Here you go Dair

 

[Skrlx]

Here you go Dair

Lmfao.. i don't need 2,000 dollar gfx cards.. i just want a decent one
(mainly for dolphin and a little gaming on the side but nothing like crysis)

 

[MattNF]

Lmfao.. i don't need 2,000 dollar gfx cards.. i just want a decent one
(mainly for dolphin and a little gaming on the side but nothing like crysis)

I have the 9800GT, it's fairly cheap and it comes with Call of Duty 4 on newegg (that deal might be over though).

 

[Narukari]

Do remember that this thread is to discuss melee emulation. It's ok to sway a little towards specs since it is relevant towards the emulation part, but don't turn the thread into a computer comparison thread.