Does Smash Bros. need a new director?

[Oddyesy]

It's probably not worth responding with how incoherent and nonsensical this post is.

One thing to point out is you say he made it for "one audience." All games are really made for one audience. You sit there and say who do you want to target with this game. As others have pointed out, Sakurai tried to make a game that was an antithesis to hardcore fighting games. He targeted gamers who were left behind with hardcore fighting games. This is why Brawl sold 11 million copies. This is why the series has gotten significant recognition and critical claim.


That's your opinion. Many people will say Brawl is a better game than Melee. Also, mediocrity L O L

Pretty much.

BTW, these games are sequels. They are going to be different. If you want the exact same game, go play Melee (or Project M with the rest of the cult).

But.. I enjoy P:M and I love them all... :'(

 

[nessokman]

Brawl was just as good as melee,superior sales wise.

Everything sakurai does is a success, he is a genius. KI:U got to a million sales, impressive for a series revival. His arm is the only reason I could see him step down.

 

[Vkrm]

Brawl was just as good as melee,superior sales wise.

Everything sakurai does is a success, he is a genius. KI:U got to a million sales, impressive for a series revival. His arm is the only reason I could see him step down.

Brawls gameplay sucks, and its sales are far from impressive considering how well the wii sold. KI:U is a game that you can't play for more than an hour without your hand cramping up which may be the cause of his arm being ****ed.

 

[Dr. James Rustles]

Brawls gameplay sucks, and its sales are far from impressive considering how well the wii sold.

People spent all their money on Wiis, obviously.

 

[KingofPhantoms]

Brawls gameplay sucks.

That's your opinion, not a fact.

I've said this before, there ARE people who prefer Brawl's gameplay and playstyle to Melee, as well as those who like Brawl's gameplay, not necessarily as much as Melee's, but they don't think it sucks. The only issue I personally found with it was the random tripping, which is something nearly the entire community can agree on.

 

[nessokman]

Brawls gameplay sucks, and its sales are far from impressive considering how well the wii sold. KI:U is a game that you can't play for more than an hour without your hand cramping up which may be the cause of his arm being ****ed.

I can play uprising for hours with no issue, you just need to hold the 3ds right. Brawls gameplay was fine, and it still outsold melee by 3 million, that's a big gap

 

[Vkrm]

That's your opinion, not a fact.

I've said this before, there ARE people who prefer Brawl's gameplay and playstyle to Melee, as well as those who like Brawl's gameplay, not necessarily as much as Melee's, but they don't think it sucks. The only issue I personally found with it was the random tripping, which is something nearly the entire community can agree on.

Saying melee has more competitive value is an objective claim completely free of personal bias. The same is true when saying melee functioned better as a casual game. Both of these statements come with arguments to back them up. That completely dispels the notion of different strokes for different folks.

I can play uprising for hours with no issue, you just need to hold the 3ds right. Brawls gameplay was fine, and it still outsold melee by 3 million, that's a big gap

The wii sold nearly 5x as much as the GameCube. Why were they only able to ship 3 million more copies when there were nearly 80 million more will owners? Any answer you have will still be shaky ground considering I myself own two copies of brawl, and I consider it to be terrible. Not everyone who bought brawl was pleased with what they got.

 

[MargnetMan23]

Saying melee has more competitive value is an objective claim completely free of personal bias. The same is true when saying melee functioned better as a casual game. Both of these statements come with arguments to back them up. That completely dispels the notion of different strokes for different folks.




The wii sold nearly 5x as much as the GameCube. Why were they only able to ship 3 million more copies when there were nearly 80 million more will owners? Any answer you have will still be shaky ground considering I myself own two copies of brawl, and I consider it to be terrible. Not everyone who bought brawl was pleased with what they got.

Well considering the fact that melee was a launch title and the wii was geared more towards a casual audience... And even if brawl was more geared towards casuals it's far from a wii sports title... There are plenty of factors to it's performance and seriously even if you think it sucks (Good for you, I personally enjoy it but I guess I'm full of ****) I highly doubt any one who hasn't played melee before hand was bothered by the game-speed and **** like that.

 

[KingofPhantoms]

Saying melee has more competitive value is an objective claim completely free of personal bias. The same is true when saying melee functioned better as a casual game. Both of these statements come with arguments to back them up. That completely dispels the notion of different strokes for different folks.

I'll admit the first statement is true, but I'll be asking for some justification for the latter statement.

 

[Oddyesy]

I'll admit the first statement is true, but I'll be asking for some justification for the latter statement.

I agree. An opinion is something that isn't dictated by fact. Take Smash as an example. People prefer Brawl while others prefer Melee, and yet others prefer 64. It's all in what you like best, not which one is the most technical or advanced.

 

[nessokman]

Saying melee has more competitive value is an objective claim completely free of personal bias. The same is true when saying melee functioned better as a casual game. Both of these statements come with arguments to back them up. That completely dispels the notion of different strokes for different folks.




The wii sold nearly 5x as much as the GameCube. Why were they only able to ship 3 million more copies when there were nearly 80 million more will owners? Any answer you have will still be shaky ground considering I myself own two copies of brawl, and I consider it to be terrible. Not everyone who bought brawl was pleased with what they got.

More factors are to be considered. Brawl was released in 08, there were some who only had Wii fit and wii sports that forgot they had a Wii. You can NOT compare the ratio of melee:GameCube to brawl:Wii. The casuals only had interest in dance, exercise, and sports games. It is safe to say 60 million were casuals who stopped caring after around 2 years.

Brawl is praised on any top 10 Wii games list, it did better sales wise. (By my logic 4 will sell 14 million) the competitive scene were the only ones who were disappointed with brawl.they are just so vocal it seems as though there are more of them. Brawl is a great game, just fight in air, you never trip.

 

[Vkrm]

I'll admit the first statement is true, but I'll be asking for some justification for the latter statement.

Are you talking about my claim that melee is the better casual game? Even if you aren't I'll go over it so that people who want to participate in the discussion can see where I'm comming from. A lot of the items that gave casual smash that frantic feel are no longer affective in giving the player a sense of satisfaction for a number of reasons.

One of those being that items spawn significantly less often in brawl. I don't anyone's figured out why this is. I'd have to guess its just a performance issue and they had to cutback to maintain 60fps. I'd gladly trade the hyper detailed char models or the scrolling stages for more items. Final smashes hurt the core gameplay as well. The only way to disable pity final smashes is to shut off items all together. Smash balls and dragoon pieces break up the action since there so powerful you really can't ignore them.

 

[KingofPhantoms]

As much as I don't want to start another Brawl VS Melee debate, (which tend to get threads locked) I'll respond to that post. To any Mod who comes to this thread, please don't immediately lock it. Send a warning and I'll drop the subject without questioning, and I hope anyone else discussing this does as well.

Are you talking about my claim that melee is the better casual game? Even if you aren't I'll go over it so that people who want to participate in the discussion can see where I'm comming from. A lot of the items that gave casual smash that frantic feel are no longer affective in giving the player a sense of satisfaction for a number of reasons.

One of those being that items spawn significantly less often in brawl. I don't anyone's figured out why this is. I'd have to guess its just a performance issue and they had to cutback to maintain 60fps. I'd gladly trade the hyper detailed char models or the scrolling stages for more items. Final smashes hurt the core gameplay as well. The only way to disable pity final smashes is to shut off items all together. Smash balls and dragoon pieces break up the action since there so powerful you really can't ignore them.

Aside from the Pity Final Smashes, I wouldn't say they break up the action; most players will immediately try to attack the Smash Ball when it appears, and players often end up hurting their opponents during this time, not to mention it's possible to knock the Smash Ball out of player before the Final Smash is activated. The Dragoon pieces can cause great struggle as the players further compete in the battle by trying to steal the pieces from other players.

One reason I think the items may no longer be able to spawn as much as in Melee is that, aside from the prievously mentioned Smash Balls and Dragoon pieces, significantly more powerful items and ones with more drastic effects have been added, such as the Smart Bomb, Golden Hammer, Gooey Bomb, Timer, and Lightning among others. I wouldn't say these are too powerful to ignore, and players would likely have an easier time recovering from these and dealing with them overall compared to the Smash Ball and Dragoon. And don't forget there were other items in Melee that could break up the action fairly easily as well, such as the Red Shell, (on some stages) and even the normal Hammer could break up the action for a short time fairly easily.

Furthermore, the slower speed of Brawl makes it a bit easier to adapt to, and allows for more concentration, and the same can be said for the air-dodges in Brawl, being able to perform them multiple times so long as you are in the air makes it much easier for players to survive as well as recover, instead of getting only one slim chance to use an air dodge successfully when trying to recover.

Lastly there are tons of players out there who enjoy chaotic stages, and Brawl has several chaotic stages. The Special Mode has also greatly been improved from Melee, which is a mode, correct me if I'm wrong, that appeals to many casuals.

 

[D-idara]

Are you talking about my claim that melee is the better casual game? Even if you aren't I'll go over it so that people who want to participate in the discussion can see where I'm comming from. A lot of the items that gave casual smash that frantic feel are no longer affective in giving the player a sense of satisfaction for a number of reasons.

One of those being that items spawn significantly less often in brawl. I don't anyone's figured out why this is. I'd have to guess its just a performance issue and they had to cutback to maintain 60fps. I'd gladly trade the hyper detailed char models or the scrolling stages for more items. Final smashes hurt the core gameplay as well. The only way to disable pity final smashes is to shut off items all together. Smash balls and dragoon pieces break up the action since there so powerful you really can't ignore them.

I've come to the conclusion that ANYONE who criticizes the inclusion of supermove finishers in fighting games is just a wimp that likes to spam Hadoukens just too much. You seem to fit the bill, you refuse to accept that SSBB was a great game that pleased everyone who just didn't want another Melee. It was chaotic and frantic, it had better stages than Melee, better roster and much more content, plus it was much easier to get into (Hitting someone in midair was near-impossible in Melee).

 

[D-idara]

Are you talking about my claim that melee is the better casual game? Even if you aren't I'll go over it so that people who want to participate in the discussion can see where I'm comming from. A lot of the items that gave casual smash that frantic feel are no longer affective in giving the player a sense of satisfaction for a number of reasons.

One of those being that items spawn significantly less often in brawl. I don't anyone's figured out why this is. I'd have to guess its just a performance issue and they had to cutback to maintain 60fps. I'd gladly trade the hyper detailed char models or the scrolling stages for more items. Final smashes hurt the core gameplay as well. The only way to disable pity final smashes is to shut off items all together. Smash balls and dragoon pieces break up the action since there so powerful you really can't ignore them.

I've come to the conclusion that ANYONE who criticizes the inclusion of supermove finishers in fighting games is just a wimp that likes to spam Hadoukens just too much. You seem to fit the bill, you refuse to accept that SSBB was a great game that pleased everyone who just didn't want another Melee. It was chaotic and frantic, it had better stages than Melee, better roster and much more content, plus it was much easier to get into (Hitting someone in midair was near-impossible in Melee).

 

[JV5Chris]

Even if Sakurai were not directly involved I don't think people would be getting the game they would think their getting by having a 'fresh' outlook so to speak. Not necessarily because no one but Sakurai could do it but more of the issue about Nintendo itself. Given the recent events with Nintendo it's clear that Nintendo's prespect on competitive play is pretty eh... strange at best. If Sakurai wasn't doing it I'm not sure who they would replace with that would do what this community in particular would want them to do with it.

Sounds like the most likely scenario. I'd love to see the Smash franchise breaking new ground again, the devs seeking further community input, and an honest pivot to be in support of the entire fanbase, but ultimately Nintendo sets their own pace for change (not always a bad thing).

 

[Deleted member]

Unfortunately, I think that's very true. Sakurai is too hard on himself and will likely work on another series resurrection or two AND the next Smash despite his condition. While it would be best for him, he likely won't be stepping down soon (and, if he does, it won't be happily).

To be fair, I don't think he'll jump into any projects once he's finished with Smash 4. That will at least give him some time to rest.
The biggest issue was that he jumped right into Smash once he was done with Kid Icarus, which was a huge project in itself. Though to be fair, I don't think he would have if he wasn't essentially roped into doing so by Iwata's announcement.

 

[Renji64]

I've come to the conclusion that ANYONE who criticizes the inclusion of supermove finishers in fighting games is just a wimp that likes to spam Hadoukens just too much. You seem to fit the bill, you refuse to accept that SSBB was a great game that pleased everyone who just didn't want another Melee. It was chaotic and frantic, it had better stages than Melee, better roster and much more content, plus it was much easier to get into (Hitting someone in midair was near-impossible in Melee).

lol@great game that pleased everyone. Yes i have always wanted a slow tripping infested smash brothers experince with no combos and boring matches. Brawl isn't even fun to watch.

 

[Oddyesy]

lol@great game that pleased everyone. Yes i have always wanted a slow tripping infested smash brothers experince with no combos and boring matches. Brawl isn't even fun to watch.

I just... feel sad for you. You've never watched a real Brawl match, have you?

 

[Orngeblu]

I can play uprising for hours with no issue, you just need to hold the 3ds right. Brawls gameplay was fine, and it still outsold melee by 3 million, that's a big gap

Lel, this.

I just... feel sad for you. You've never watched a real Brawl match, have you?

Honestly, that's one of the very little I find very interesting to watch. Another one was where...whatever his name is, a DK, vs Denti, an Olimar, omg dat gimmick he pulled off. <3 It worked! Sadly he lost, because Olimar is so stupidly... I can't even find the word to describe how annoying he is! >:C

 

[nat pagle]

That was such a hype set, but I feel like since Salem's been in the high tier of the scene for a year now since Apex 2013, he won't do nearly as well. ESAM I think had a thread a while ago pointing out how people weren't edgeguarding ZSS right, which really shows how bad not knowing an MU can hurt you.

I don't think we'll see anything near as interesting as this in Apex 2014. The MK's will be more dominant and we might see an Olimar, IC's, Diddy, etc. get further on.

 

[Oddyesy]

Lel, this.



Honestly, that's one of the very little I find very interesting to watch. Another one was where...whatever his name is, a DK, vs Denti, an Olimar, omg dat gimmick he pulled off. <3 It worked! Sadly he lost, because Olimar is so stupidly... I can't even find the word to describe how annoying he is! >:C

Oh! Oh! I know Denti! He's a good friend of mine.

 

[Accf124]

I don't think smash needs a new direct, but I think Sakurai needs a push. When I say push I mean maybe some more help. Sakurai seems to be pretty stressed when he makes smash games and I guess because of that Smash kinda isn't at its full potential. Maybe increase the number of people helping him develop the game and another person to kinda help lead the team.

 

[Xigger]

I don't see many complaints besides tripping and not hardcore enough, and other opinions like story mode is good/bad. Sounds like typical "competitive is better" fans to me.

Like anyone, he has strengths and weaknesses. Not so great at game balance, (as if most fighting games aren't unbalanced pre-update) but great at what really matters in Smash: collaboration of all that is Nintendo, and a fun party experience. Everything else just adds on to the package.
Brawl and Melee was made by the same director.

 

[Johnknight1]

Sakurai is overrated in his impact.

Honestly, whoever is best should be the director. If it is Sakurai, it is Sakurai.

As it stands, the Kirby series is better than ever without Sakurai 10 years later. Perhaps the same is true without Sakurai; perhaps it isn't. You gotta consider it if you want future smash bros games to be in the best of hands.

All I know is after Brawl, Sakurai said less of him is better. And honestly, he is right. We need more of the other directors and executives to make more decisions involved in the game. After all, if gigantic companies aren't run by one person, why shouldn't one game be run the same way=???

 

[Renji64]

I just... feel sad for you. You've never watched a real Brawl match, have you?

Not impressed seen better matches in melee and n64.

 

[BKupa666]

I think Sakurai makes plenty of good design decisions, and often ones that go overlooked at that; little Easter Eggs on various stages, hidden tricks within characters' movesets, and My Music are among these, in my opinion. However, I do feel that, at times, the sheer amount of power he holds over the game leads to stupid ideas *cough* tripping *cough* being implemented as well, along with a stubborn refusal to implement great ideas, such as costumes or online leaderboards, and, depending on how this game shapes up, some popular characters.

I wouldn't replace Sakurai over any of these oversights/blunders, but I would prefer that a larger number of equally competent individuals produced the game alongside him, hopefully bringing new ideas and viewpoints to the table in the process. Also, I think it's silly that, in interviews, Sakurai talks about how Smash would be less successful without his 'personal criteria,' or that he alone is able to discern what the 'silent majority' thinks; I think the former is just self-centered and inaccurate fluff, while the latter is an excuse for him to justify whatever he wants.

 

[Dr. James Rustles]

How about I do you one better, old friend?

 

[Arthur97]

He should at least have some co-producers to keep him in check. Smash will still be Smash even without him so I wouldn't be sad to see him go. I think he has issues letting go which is only natural, but if he is using Smash just so he can work on a slew of big name characters, then it is time for him to go.