Do tiers really matter?

[Grim!]

please be polite and Dylan has kind of a point.the game is a little slow and there are no chainsgrabs or L cancel or a dacus.
so there is a little less skill.but the game still requiers skill to edge gaurd and punish.

 

[Kurri ★]

That's a very unfair thing to say. I can see why Smash 4 players get discouraged by melee fans. And I stress "fan" because I highly doubt you have great skill in melee.

Anyway, all I can hope is that people ignore you and your illogical elitist opinions. You're a melee newf4g who is supporting the game out of a desire for superiority or arrogance, like a bully.

I would honnestly love to money match you, pichu vs fox, and utterly destroy you with a bottom tier character... the beauty of melee AND smash 4 is that skill > tiers. Tires do exit, but only at the highest level.

Take your negativity elsewhere plz.

What's with the huge 180? I don't mind it, just, woah.

ignore everyone who says that there are tiers in smash 4. this game doesn't allow much room for skill so winning isn't dependent on character. (unlike melee where tiers exist) Smash 4 has been too dumbed down to the point that every character is viable, where as in melee, fox has a clear advantage over all the characters.

That's... That's not how tiers work ya dunce...

please be polite and Dylan has kind of a point.the game is a little slow and there are no chainsgrabs or L cancel or a dacus.
so there is a little less skill.but the game still requiers skill to edge gaurd and punish.

You understand there's more to skill that just those, right?

 

[Roukiske]

In my personal experience, this game heavily relies on the neutral game, you are in it so much of the time that you better be good at not getting hit. Follow-ups, edgeguards, and the like are for the most part predicting a jump or airdodge (characters are too floaty to really implement a tech chase game, though it's possible), so it isn't extremely deep. This game has less safe ways to get in and fewer ways to close gaps. Some characters have a much more safer and versatile neutral game than others. Obviously the game is much more than neutral, but since the defender can regain ground much more easily, it's hard to ignore this.

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

What's with the huge 180? I don't mind it, just, woah.

What 180? I'm confused here.

Let's be clear about my opinion on smash 4. I think it's a watered down smash game, that was designed counter intuitively to the competitive audience... removing techniques and not replacing them with anything. The game is slow, it bores me, I hate playing it, I hate watching it.

That being said, I support the smash 4 scene. There's no reason to bash players because I personally don't like their game, or be ignorant about why smash 4 is not for me, there are a lot of intelligent reasons.... Plus it introduces new blood to the smash community. I'm gonna be 30 years old soon, lol, it's time to let the new generation of smashers have a voice... and to try to teach them to not be scrubby. (Scrubby as in making excuses for losing and being negative, blaming everything but themselves for losing)

That being said, for this melee elitist clown to say that Tiers don't apply to smash 4 because it's so watered down is totally nuts... and his example of fox in melee is stupid as hell.

I mean THAT'S ignorant. Of course some characters are better than others in smash 4 at the top level....

I love melee, but I hate melee fanboys... big time. Half these punks just think they're good because they know advanced tech... but have no idea how to apply it in a game. I crush them all the time at the weeklies just with fundamentals and a few advanced techs like shine-grab and waveshine etc. I can actually apply my techskill because I've been playing the game for so damn long.

And it's not cool to bash other people for playing a different game.

It is cool, however, for me to threaten Sakurai. *Charges DBZ type attack....again*

I know this is hypocritical because of my bloody history and past on smashboards being the first person to openly bash brawl and hate on brawl scrubs... but I was a teenager so I wasn't thinking as clearly as I am nowadays.

 

[Kurri ★]

I appreciate the support.

I know this is hypocritical because of my bloody history and past on smashboards being the first person to openly bash brawl and hate on brawl scrubs... but I was a teenager so I wasn't thinking as clearly as I am nowadays.

I don't think anyone can fault you for being hypocritical, like you said, you were a teen, views change over time. Look at me, I used to think SFIV took less skill than Third Strike, someone set me straight, and know I look at USFIV fondly while playing Sakura... poorly (We'll give it time.)

 

[Grim!]

i really miss the tecniques like L cancel and wave dash its not that i dont like the other smash games.
Its just that i had good memories of the days i played melee

 

[Grim!]

What's with the huge 180? I don't mind it, just, woah.


That's... That's not how tiers work ya dunce...


You understand there's more to skill that just those, right?

yeah i know there is wavedashing (thats just a little trolling sorry)
But i really do know there is skill in this game but its more things like
knowing your reach and knowing how big your bubble is. If you know
what i mean with that.Knowing when your in your oppenents reach
knowing with witch attacks he can reach and you knowing what you can
do when he tries to reach you and punnishing that are legitemite skills
and this is just a short list.I could make a whole guide teaching you what
you need to know to win.

 

[Roukiske]

yeah i know there is wavedashing (thats just a little trolling sorry)
But i really do know there is skill in this game but its more things like
knowing your reach and knowing how big your bubble is. If you know
what i mean with that.Knowing when your in your oppenents reach
knowing with witch attacks he can reach and you knowing what you can
do when he tries to reach you and punnishing that are legitemite skills
and this is just a short list.I could make a whole guide teaching you what
you need to know to win.

I just wanna help you out here, everything you just said can be summed up as the common term "spacing". That is just 1 skill.

 

[Grim!]

its more than that you have to make a good guess what attack your opponent will do and thats based on
noticing his habets.What i mean is more spacing and zoning and being able to use them both in a smart way

 

[GhostUrsa]

I just wanna help you out here, everything you just said can be summed up as the common term "spacing". That is just 1 skill.

I'm starting to think that treating 'spacing' as 1 skill maybe doing that ability a great disservice. Worrying about dash distances, attack range and angles for all of the attack options for both you and your enemy, walking speeds, jumping arcs and pivoted ranges is more than just one skill. Each on of what I mention is technically a skill to know, and lumping them together feels like it's downplaying how important it is. Maybe making 'spacing' more specific will help people have a better grasp as to how they can improve, which will help make tier lists more accurate. Approach spacing for dashing, and walking options; Aerial Spacing for jumping height, arcs and speed; attack spacing for attack range, angles and pivoted options.

I'll not elaborate more because it will throw the thread off topic, but it's food for thought in future conversations.

 

[Sensei]

Tiers do exist and they will change as the metagame evolves. It's up to you whether you decide to choose a character purely for the sake of fun, competitiveness, or a blend between the two. For example, I usually have the most fun with fox in SSB, but if I want the highest chance to win in a competitive sense, I will use pikachu because there is more margin for error.

 

[HeavyMetalSonic]

Tier lists for me, really just show off a character's frame data compared to other characters, how good they are against the rest of the cast, AT's that may put them at an advantage, and how well they can deal with certain situations (EG: Recovering, setting up, combos etc). You could use a p**s poor character (I'll use as an example, as he was used by the OP), but you may know how to run circles around someone like or , because they're very common, and the player knows how to deal with them.

Yes, a character having good traits is helpful, but I think it pays off more knowing what a character can do, how to implement it and how to counter other characters. Yes it will be an uphill fight because of natural advantages a character may have, but it's not impossible.