Do Spirits Deconfirm? Update: Min Min = Spirits Don't Deconfirm Anymore

[Rie Sonomura]

The Spirits deconfirm thing only applied to Fighter Pass 1. In fact, I suspect Byleth might have stolen the final FP1 slot from a third-party character that took too long to develop because it makes no sense for him to have been planned for DLC when Fire Emblem Three Houses was released months after Ultimate was released and Rex ended up a Mii Costume because his game came out too late. I bet that somewhere along FP2, there will be a third-party character from a new franchise that didn't have a base game spirit on the Spirit Board, while the rest of the pass could be requested Spirit characters.

as for Byleth, it may just be because FE is easy to make movesets for. Rex was probably too complex moveset wise.

 

[Dr.DonPatch64]

The Spirits deconfirm thing only applied to Fighter Pass 1. In fact, I suspect Byleth might have stolen the final FP1 slot from a third-party character that took too long to develop because it makes no sense for him to have been planned for DLC when Fire Emblem Three Houses was released months after Ultimate was released and Rex ended up a Mii Costume because his game came out too late. I bet that somewhere along FP2, there will be a third-party character from a new franchise that didn't have a base game spirit on the Spirit Board, while the rest of the pass could be requested Spirit characters.

There is no such thing as a character slot

 

[Koopaul]

Yes and no. There isn't "slots" that are reserved for characters, but Sakurai/Nintendo do consider a lot of different characters, rejecting some and favoring others. You can't blame a newcomer for stealing away the oppertunity of a specific character. You can't say "Because of Byleth we didn't get Waluigi." or whatever. But you can say that Byleth was favored over other options. It's never anyone specific. There are only two times in history where a character took the position of someone specific. With Robin taking the spot of Chrom, and Min Min taking the spot of Spring Man and Ninjara... and possibly others.

 

[Sean Wheeler]

There were no slots reserved for the base game, but Sakurai did specify that there would be five Challenger Packs weeks before the game came out and he already decided which five characters would be in the Fighters Pass. Fire Emblem: Three Houses came eight months after that announcement. How can the star of that game be planned that long ago? What would have happened if the makers of Three Houses changed Byleth up so that he won't be the fighter Sakurai wanted to use? If Rex had a costume because he couldn't make it in for how late his game was, how could the DLC plans have an upcoming game? That just doesn't add up. The only explanation I could think of is that Byleth was meant for Fighters Pass 2 but because the developers were working on him faster than the original final character from Fighters Pass 1, they switched him in. Just look at FP1: One of these things is not like the other. Byleth was the only first-party character and the only fighter of a veteran franchise to be in FP1. FP1 had a theme going on. Let's see if FP2 has more first-party characters with one new third-party series.

 

[Lenidem]

Yes and no. There isn't "slots" that are reserved for characters, but Sakurai/Nintendo do consider a lot of different characters, rejecting some and favoring others. You can't blame a newcomer for stealing away the oppertunity of a specific character. You can't say "Because of Byleth we didn't get Waluigi." or whatever. But you can say that Byleth was favored over other options. It's never anyone specific. There are only two times in history where a character took the position of someone specific. With Robin taking the spot of Chrom, and Min Min taking the spot of Spring Man and Ninjara... and possibly others.

And Sakurai stated once that they ''reserve a slot'' for a Pokémon every time, something like that.

 

[fogbadge]

Yes and no. There isn't "slots" that are reserved for characters, but Sakurai/Nintendo do consider a lot of different characters, rejecting some and favoring others. You can't blame a newcomer for stealing away the oppertunity of a specific character. You can't say "Because of Byleth we didn't get Waluigi." or whatever. But you can say that Byleth was favored over other options. It's never anyone specific. There are only two times in history where a character took the position of someone specific. With Robin taking the spot of Chrom, and Min Min taking the spot of Spring Man and Ninjara... and possibly others.

theres nothing that says sakaurai ever considered spring man to be playable, we only know he considered ninjara and min min

There were no slots reserved for the base game, but Sakurai did specify that there would be five Challenger Packs weeks before the game came out and he already decided which five characters would be in the Fighters Pass. Fire Emblem: Three Houses came eight months after that announcement. How can the star of that game be planned that long ago? What would have happened if the makers of Three Houses changed Byleth up so that he won't be the fighter Sakurai wanted to use? If Rex had a costume because he couldn't make it in for how late his game was, how could the DLC plans have an upcoming game? That just doesn't add up. The only explanation I could think of is that Byleth was meant for Fighters Pass 2 but because the developers were working on him faster than the original final character from Fighters Pass 1, they switched him in. Just look at FP1: One of these things is not like the other. Byleth was the only first-party character and the only fighter of a veteran franchise to be in FP1. FP1 had a theme going on. Let's see if FP2 has more first-party characters with one new third-party series.

sakurai confirmed in byleth's presentation video that he was allowed behind the scenes of 3 houses. which would imply he wasnt allowed behind the scenes for arms and XC2. the final plans for ultimates base roster were made around the end of the last game's dlc cycle probably before those two games were far enough through development. fp1 line up would have been finalized a lot closer to the end of 3 houses development at a point where they had most likely settle on how byleth would play. although byleth in smash isnt much like how they are in 3 houses anyway. sakurai has always had a bit of a double standard when it comes to fire emblem but he did say he was working byleth before 3 houses was out

more to the point though, what does it matter? i mean even if they did switch two characters release order around, youre still getting the other character so why does it matter that they did?

 

[Koopaul]

theres nothing that says sakaurai ever considered spring man to be playable, we only know he considered ninjara and min min

He specifically mentioned Spring Man when speaking about the game's protagonist. So he was obviously brought up. Not to mention the trailer and promotional artwork imply that Spring Man lost his chance.

 

[fogbadge]

He specifically mentioned Spring Man when speaking about the game's protagonist. So he was obviously brought up. Not to mention the trailer and promotional artwork imply that Spring Man lost his chance.

theres a difference between something being implied and something being confirmed. everyone assumed it would be spring man so he probably felt it needed addressing all he did was explain that everyone was the main character not just spring man, thats not the same thing as saying i had thought about putting spring man in

 

[Lenidem]

One way to see it is that there was gonna be one and only one character from ARMS. So if it is Min Min, it's not Spring Man or Ribbon Girl. Doesn't mean that she "stole" or "took the spot" of someone else, but there was a de facto competition, even if it was quickly settled.

 

[Dr.DonPatch64]

When did people start saying "____________ is a waste of a character slot" anyway?

 

[Lenidem]

When did people start saying "____________ is a waste of a character slot" anyway?

When they saw characters they don't like joining the roster.

 

[Dr.DonPatch64]

When they saw characters they don't like joining the roster.

I mean when was that first said, was it melee? cause I have a feeling it was melee that started it

 

[Dinoman96]

as for Byleth, it may just be because FE is easy to make movesets for. Rex was probably too complex moveset wise.

If that were the case, Sakurai probably would of said so.

I think the reality of the situation is that Nintendo wanted a character in FP1 that would be from a first party game released after Ultimate. Both ARMS and Xenoblade 2 were already on the market by the time Nintendo/Sakurai began planning the first batch of DLC for this game in 2018, so naturally they weren't prioritised. Three Houses on the other hand, wouldn't see a release until July 2019. That's why they went with Byleth instead. So yes, FE just had better timing in this case.

 

[fogbadge]

If that were the case, Sakurai probably would of said so.

I think the reality of the situation is that Nintendo wanted a character in FP1 that would be from a first party game released after Ultimate. Both ARMS and Xenoblade 2 were already on the market by the time Nintendo/Sakurai began planning the first batch of DLC for this game in 2018, so naturally they weren't prioritised. Three Houses on the other hand, wouldn't see a release until July 2019. That's why they went with Byleth instead. So yes, FE just had better timing in this case.

no its cause sakurai loves fire emblem

 

[Dr.DonPatch64]

no its cause sakurai loves fire emblem

That would explain why we have a lot of fire emblem characters

 

[Dinoman96]

no its cause sakurai loves fire emblem

1. Sakurai did not choose the DLC characters
2. He also loves Xenoblade 2

 

[Rie Sonomura]

1. Sakurai did not choose the DLC characters
2. He also loves Xenoblade 2

there you have it. Sakurai may have wanted Rex, but Nintendo didn't. maybe they've got a different Xenoblade character in mind

 

[Guynamednelson]

there you have it. Sakurai may have wanted Rex, but Nintendo didn't. maybe they've got a different Xenoblade character in mind

Just because they didn't choose Rex for FP1 doesn't mean they don't want Rex, period. Might as well say they didn't want an ARMS fighter due to FP1 and the Spring Man AT.

 

[SharkLord]

Just because they didn't choose Rex for FP1 doesn't mean they don't want Rex, period. Might as well say they didn't want an ARMS fighter due to FP1 and the Spring Man AT.

I still stand by my semi-joking claim that it'll be Nia instead because Sakurai is a cat person. I do expect Rex, but if we get Nia instead I'll just burst out laughing because I was actually right.

 

[fogbadge]

1. Sakurai did not choose the DLC characters
2. He also loves Xenoblade 2

1. sakurai has to agree to the characters, he is not forced into including anyone he doesnt want
2. what has that got to do with what we were talking about?

 

[Koopaul]

theres a difference between something being implied and something being confirmed. everyone assumed it would be spring man so he probably felt it needed addressing all he did was explain that everyone was the main character not just spring man, thats not the same thing as saying i had thought about putting spring man in

Sakurai said he asked Yabuki if Spring Man was the protagonist. Why would you ask the director about Spring Man if he wasn't at all considered? He even did a search online for images of Spring Man. He doesn't need to outright say that Spring Man was on the table if he asked the director about him and looked for images of him online. I mean, sure, he could have looked for images of Spring Man just for the trailer. But c'mon, this is Spring Man and not just any old ARMS character. I highly doubt he wasn't one of the big names that were tossed around before asking Yabuki.

 

[fogbadge]

Sakurai said he asked Yabuki if Spring Man was the protagonist. Why would you ask the director about Spring Man if he wasn't at all considered? He even did a search online for images of Spring Man. He doesn't need to outright say that Spring Man was on the table if he asked the director about him and looked for images of him online. I mean, sure, he could have looked for images of Spring Man just for the trailer. But c'mon, this is Spring Man and not just any old ARMS character. I highly doubt he wasn't one of the big names that were tossed around before asking Yabuki.

correlation does not equal causation, the information we have is anecdotal at best, nothing he says directly suggest he ever considered spring man

 

[Lenidem]

correlation does not equal causation, the information we have is anecdotal at best, nothing he says directly suggest he ever considered spring man

Then why did he mention him specifically?

 

[Swamp Sensei]

He considered Spring Man enough to know that some of the audience would find it weird. No reason to clarify the matter otherwise.

 

[fogbadge]

Then why did he mention him specifically?

because the entire fandom thinks he is the main character, even after yabuki said not the case

 

[Lenidem]

because the entire fandom thinks he is the main character, even after yabuki said not the case

Yeah, but he felt like he had to ask. So it was not clear for him either.

 

[MarioDDR755]

Spring Man is clearly the mascot of ARMS, even Min Min's reveal trailer gave him special focus. But since it's Nintendo game they could choose not to put in the mascot. Note that being the mascot doesn't make you the main character, just the marketable one.

no its cause sakurai loves fire emblem

Iirc, Sakurai flat-out said something like "yes, there are too many fire emblem characters, but Nintendo wanted Byleth." So he knows, at least.

 

[fogbadge]

Iirc, Sakurai flat-out said something like "yes, there are too many fire emblem characters, but Nintendo wanted Byleth." So he knows, at least.

but he wasnt forced to put in byleth, he was still willing to do it

 

[TheCJBrine]

but he wasnt forced to put in byleth, he was still willing to do it

To be fair, he probably wouldn’t veto out of bias or just because “no/no, we already have a decent number of FE characters” especially since Nintendo are the ones wanting to know and it isn’t only his call, or if he would veto for that, Nintendo likely wouldn’t take that as a good enough reason; it seems to be based on whether or not he can make the character work, going by what he has said.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

To be fair, he probably wouldn’t veto out of bias or just because “no/no, we already have a decent number of FE characters” especially since Nintendo are the ones wanting to know and it isn’t only his call, or if he would veto for that, Nintendo likely wouldn’t take that as a good enough reason; it seems to be based on whether or not he can make the character work, going by what he has said.

Basically stuff like moveset, licensing issues, etc. Pass 1 had no moveset issues(doesn't mean pass 2 can't have that kind of problem), and licensing worked out for the best. Thus, no issue really came up that was worth veto'ing for.

He's a professional after all. Bias isn't going to really play a key role in him saying yes or no. He's aware he doesn't outright choose anyone in the same way. If the character never comes up that he wants, they simply aren't getting in. Which sucks, but that happens. Absolutely none of Pass 1 were his personal choices too, which sheds some light on how professional he is. Though to be fair, that's not the best thing in the world to say. It made him sound less professional about it.

 

[fogbadge]

To be fair, he probably wouldn’t veto out of bias or just because “no/no, we already have a decent number of FE characters” especially since Nintendo are the ones wanting to know and it isn’t only his call, or if he would veto for that, Nintendo likely wouldn’t take that as a good enough reason; it seems to be based on whether or not he can make the character work, going by what he has said.

that only applies to byleth there's still seven other FE characters that was purely his decision. does it really make sense that either nintendo suggested only one character from their recent games or that out of a pool of characters byleth was the only one whom he could make a moveset for?

Bias isn't going to really play a key role in him saying yes or no.

what smash games have you been playing?

 

[TheCJBrine]

that only applies to byleth there's still seven other FE characters that was purely his decision. does it really make sense that either nintendo suggested only one character from their recent games or that out of a pool of characters byleth was the only one whom he could make a moveset for?



what smash games have you been playing?

Nintendo doesn’t give him a pool to choose from, they suggest a character to him, wanting him to make it, and they discuss whether it can be done and whatever. The list/pool thing was a fan idea.

I do think it makes sense Nintendo wanted to promote the latest FE game; they want it to be a big franchise. They wanted to promote ARMS too afterwards.

Sakurai also already thought Corrin was pushing it, his team convincing him they could be fun. Yes, he likes Fire Emblem, and likely didn’t mind Byleth either, but he can’t just say no just because even if he wanted someone else (and iirc he did mention having a different character in mind in a Famitsu article regarding CP5).

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

what smash games have you been playing?

Read the context. So every game. Bias isn't why he said yes to the 5 DLC characters. It's professionalism. Bias would make him say outright no because it's not the characters he wants. He didn't care about that kind of bias and did the right thing, only say no due to professional reasons, of which there was no reason to say no job-wise. He clearly could make the characters work, and did so.

Also, with his statements on Slime, that might've been his "personal preference" too. For Byleth, it could've been any Fire Emblem character he was interested in or a different Lord. There's other characters in FF/KoF of interest to him. If I remember right, he's an Iori Yagami fan. Who knows who he wanted instead of Joker at that point. The fact he didn't consider Banjo-Kazooie his personal choice leads to a lot of choices. Could've been Master Chief, Steve, or other Rareware characters. Maybe he wanted someone from Killer Instinct, Battletoads, even James Bond, etc. There's a crapload of characters he didn't have a chance to get in over those 5 that are possible. And he's clear that none of the Pass 1 he would've personally chosen. So yeah, it's pretty obvious bias wasn't the reason he said yes to those.

Min Min is quite literally the only Pass character he actually would've chosen himself at best. And he still clearly considered Spring Man and Ninjara despite this. Bias wasn't why he said yes. He'd have said yes to any ARMS character as long as he can make it work. What he did instead was talk to the developers to understand why Min Min would be fine over Spring Man.

 

[fogbadge]

Nintendo doesn’t give him a pool to choose from, they suggest a character to him, wanting him to make it, and they discuss whether it can be done and whatever. The list/pool thing was a fan idea.

I do think it makes sense Nintendo wanted to promote the latest FE game; they want it to be a big franchise. They wanted to promote ARMS too afterwards.

Sakurai also already thought Corrin was pushing it, his team convincing him they could be fun. Yes, he likes Fire Emblem, and likely didn’t mind Byleth either, but he can’t just say no just because even if he wanted someone else (and iirc he did mention having a different character in mind in a Famitsu article regarding CP5).

my point was no body is forcing sakurai to put in characters hes against. also nintendo already think FE is a big franchise, after awakening they said there were gonna treat it as such, hence why i say, what sense does it make that nintendo want to promote one big series over all the others when FE was not the only one to get a new game last year

Read the context. So every game. Bias isn't why he said yes to the 5 DLC characters. It's professionalism. Bias would make him say outright no because it's not the characters he wants. He didn't care about that kind of bias and did the right thing, only say no due to professional reasons, of which there was no reason to say no job-wise. He clearly could make the characters work, and did so.

Also, with his statements on Slime, that might've been his "personal preference" too. For Byleth, it could've been any Fire Emblem character he was interested in or a different Lord. There's other characters in FF/KoF of interest to him. If I remember right, he's an Iori Yagami fan. Who knows who he wanted instead of Joker at that point. The fact he didn't consider Banjo-Kazooie his personal choice leads to a lot of choices. Could've been Master Chief, Steve, or other Rareware characters. Maybe he wanted someone from Killer Instinct, Battletoads, even James Bond, etc. There's a crapload of characters he didn't have a chance to get in over those 5 that are possible. And he's clear that none of the Pass 1 he would've personally chosen. So yeah, it's pretty obvious bias wasn't the reason he said yes to those.

Min Min is quite literally the only Pass character he actually would've chosen himself at best. And he still clearly considered Spring Man and Ninjara despite this. Bias wasn't why he said yes. He'd have said yes to any ARMS character as long as he can make it work. What he did instead was talk to the developers to understand why Min Min would be fine over Spring Man.

i never said everything was 100% sakurai bias im saying its clearly all over the place, the kirby stuff is mostly his stuff, palutena and pittoo, bowser is how sakurai pictures him not how he is in his games, sakurai chose greninja and inceneroar cause he thought they were cool, its everywhere.

slime was his back up if he wasnt allowed to use hero, hero was his first choice. where in the world did you get the idea he didnt want to include joker? where did that come from? we dont know why he incuded most of these characters theres nothing to say he didnt want these characters and theres nothing to say he did. he said he included B&K cause of fan demand he never once said he had other characters he would have preferred, in fact out of all rare characters they were the only ones he hoped to give a trophy to back in melee. where did he ever say that those five characters werent ones he would have chosen himself?

we all know he wanted to include an arms character in the roster and ninjara was the only one he said he was also considering he never said he was considering spring man

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

i never said everything was 100% sakurai bias im saying its clearly all over the place, the kirby stuff is mostly his stuff, palutena and pittoo, bowser is how sakurai pictures him not how he is in his games, sakurai chose greninja and inceneroar cause he thought they were cool, its everywhere.

Palutena was massively popular. Dark Pit was a super easy clone. Really, both were extremely easy to see coming on its own. Yes, Sakurai was basically told he could pick any of those three. That's the choices he was given. Greninja was chosen because he could imagine the moveset, not because of some "outright bias". It's not remotely the same thing. Incineroar is the only legitimate example of bias among those 4. Everybody designs character playstyles in a way they think works. That doesn't really mean anything special on its own. Dark Pit and Palutena probably wouldn't have gotten in(at least Dark Pit for sure) without Uprising, but honestly? Palutena was pretty much a duh at that point. She was literally the easiest character in 4 other than Miis to see coming outright. Pac-Man is closer, but there was actually some question if it was plausible due to Sakurai making it clear Namco-Bandai won't be shown special consideration just because they're part of the development team. That proves to be correct constantly. They were never given any actual special treatment, and Pac-Man's actually pretty lucky he worked out. Sakurai had no ideas for him despite Miyamoto asking for him to be put in, and eventually Bamco came up with a fun idea to have Pac-Man represented the Namco Arcade games, providing a fun unique moveset.

slime was his back up if he wasnt allowed to use hero, hero was his first choice. where in the world did you get the idea he didnt want to include joker? where did that come from? we dont know why he incuded most of these characters theres nothing to say he didnt want these characters and theres nothing to say he did. he said he included B&K cause of fan demand he never once said he had other characters he would have preferred, in fact out of all rare characters they were the only ones he hoped to give a trophy to back in melee. where did he ever say that those five characters werent ones he would have chosen himself?

Except Hero wasn't his choice. He made it outright clear none of Pass 1 was who he would've picked. That was Nintendo's choice. No, Nintendo chose B&K out of fan demand. Remember, he didn't choose a single one of those characters. He was told characters and discussed each one individually. Are you still under the ridiculous fan assumption he was given some list to pick characters from? It doesn't exist. There is no list and never was.

I got the idea when he directly said alone "None of the Fighters in Pass 1 were my personal choices." That pretty blatantly means he had other ideas in mind. So I got it from the man himself. In many cases, when he says "I included them", he's referring to how Nintendo chose them and him agreeing when suggested. That's pretty much what happened with all of Pass 1. Pass 2 is also the exact same case. The only difference is, again, he actually wanted Min Min personally too, and that's it.

we all know he wanted to include an arms character in the roster and ninjara was the only one he said he was also considering he never said he was considering spring man

It was blatantly obvious he considered Spring Man by the fact he talked about him as an important character overall. It's pretty hard implied he was on the list of key ones. That's also why he got the AT role, because he was the most important character he knew of. That's not a coincidence whatsoever.

Really, the only ones that were obviously considered were Spring Man, Ninjara, and Min Min on his won. His own interactions in the direct made it clear who the priorities were. Ribbon Girl is the only one to get something very notable with no clear sign she was considered. She probably was too, and she does have a lot of screentime in that trailer too, only second to Spring Man himself, other than Min Min respectively. Nobody else came close among the ARMS character beyond those three. Not even Ninjara, another one he considered. The results show pretty clearly who were important, especially when combined with his statements.

 

[fogbadge]

Palutena was massively popular. Dark Pit was a super easy clone. Really, both were extremely easy to see coming on its own. Yes, Sakurai was basically told he could pick any of those three. That's the choices he was given. Greninja was chosen because he could imagine the moveset, not because of some "outright bias". It's not remotely the same thing. Incineroar is the only legitimate example of bias among those 4. Everybody designs character playstyles in a way they think works. That doesn't really mean anything special on its own. Dark Pit and Palutena probably wouldn't have gotten in(at least Dark Pit for sure) without Uprising, but honestly? Palutena was pretty much a duh at that point. She was literally the easiest character in 4 other than Miis to see coming outright. Pac-Man is closer, but there was actually some question if it was plausible due to Sakurai making it clear Namco-Bandai won't be shown special consideration just because they're part of the development team. That proves to be correct constantly. They were never given any actual special treatment, and Pac-Man's actually pretty lucky he worked out. Sakurai had no ideas for him despite Miyamoto asking for him to be put in, and eventually Bamco came up with a fun idea to have Pac-Man represented the Namco Arcade games, providing a fun unique moveset.


Except Hero wasn't his choice. He made it outright clear none of Pass 1 was who he would've picked. That was Nintendo's choice. No, Nintendo chose B&K out of fan demand. Remember, he didn't choose a single one of those characters. He was told characters and discussed each one individually. Are you still under the ridiculous fan assumption he was given some list to pick characters from? It doesn't exist. There is no list and never was.

I got the idea when he directly said alone "None of the Fighters in Pass 1 were my personal choices." That pretty blatantly means he had other ideas in mind. So I got it from the man himself. In many cases, when he says "I included them", he's referring to how Nintendo chose them and him agreeing when suggested. That's pretty much what happened with all of Pass 1. Pass 2 is also the exact same case. The only difference is, again, he actually wanted Min Min personally too, and that's it.


It was blatantly obvious he considered Spring Man by the fact he talked about him as an important character overall. It's pretty hard implied he was on the list of key ones. That's also why he got the AT role, because he was the most important character he knew of. That's not a coincidence whatsoever.

Really, the only ones that were obviously considered were Spring Man, Ninjara, and Min Min on his won. His own interactions in the direct made it clear who the priorities were. Ribbon Girl is the only one to get something very notable with no clear sign she was considered. She probably was too, and she does have a lot of screentime in that trailer too, only second to Spring Man himself, other than Min Min respectively. Nobody else came close among the ARMS character beyond those three. Not even Ninjara, another one he considered. The results show pretty clearly who were important, especially when combined with his statements.

no everyone assumed palutena would be put in smash because he made uprising and even then it was all after the game had started development after he decided to put her in. pittoo being may have been an easy clone but dont forget he was chosen over other easy clones.

what he said was he and nintendo were choosing the characters together, he never once said he was against any of them

no min min and ninjara were the only ones he said he considered, he explained that spring man wasnt the main character that does not mean he considered him, thats just you filling in the blanks with what you assumed must have happened

sakurai is not being forced to do anything he doesnt want to do and the only characters he ever said he was against were villager and ridley

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

no everyone assumed palutena would be put in smash because he made uprising and even then it was all after the game had started development after he decided to put her in. pittoo being may have been an easy clone but dont forget he was chosen over other easy clones.

There were no other "easy clones" either. Pikmin & Alph would require a lot more programming and Rock Pikmin weren't even considered to be used on Alph, but Olimar. It was dropped entirely. He also considered one more Pikmin character, but went with the only 3 easy clones possible.

Palutena was obvious on its own because she was still a massively popular option. Uprising helped, but she was still popular in Japan anyway. That said, Uprising is the core reason we got Dark Pit, not some silly bias. He didn't make Dark Pit in Uprising to add him to Smash, he made him because it was an interesting idea for Uprising. He was still a costume just like in Brawl during 4's initial development. There is no correlation in "Sakurai bias" when he chose the exact ones to promote. There were only 4 choices at most at that point, with maybe Daisy as a realistic fifth, and all of them had proper reasoning. Dark Pit was also massively popular in Uprising, but his own team had ideas of how to split him off. As costumes can't have their own gameplay stats, it was split off or they can't be treated as their own gameplay differences(no matter how minute). That's why they happened in the first place, which in itself could be called a bias towards "more fair stat knowledge for everyone", which was catered towards the players, not himself, mainly. Lucina happened to have the same proportions and could theoretically fight like him. On the other hand, Robin was bias. Lucina was luck that it worked out as a concept. Dr. Mario was also directly for the fans, and they wouldn't be pleased if he had an awkward moveset that makes no sense(why would he use F.L.U.D.D. despite in Melee using the Mario Tornado, essentially?).

what he said was he and nintendo were choosing the characters together, he never once said he was against any of them

No, he outright said Nintendo chooses the characters and he looks into each one as he's suggested and talks to them after they're suggested. That's because he literally doesn't choose them. There was never some bias thing here. He's made it again, super clear they weren't his "personal choices". That means he didn't actually choose them from a list no matter how one thinks about it. That would make no sense.

no min min and ninjara were the only ones he said he considered, he explained that spring man wasnt the main character that does not mean he considered him, thats just you filling in the blanks with what you assumed must have happened

And he wouldn't have mentioned Spring Man if he wasn't also a character in consideration. It's the only reason it was pointful to make. Otherwise he'd just have left it out since any ARMS fan already knew that it had no main character to begin with. It was designed that way.

sakurai is not being forced to do anything he doesnt want to do and the only characters he ever said he was against were villager and ridley

And those were for gameplay-related reasons. He finally had ideas. Doesn't really change how almost all your examples are not legitimate bias-based points.

He also doesn't have an actual personal option to outright pick for Smash Ultimate DLC(PP, the only one he ever picked later on for DLC, aside). The rest are still hard-picked by Nintendo, suggested to him, and then he decides if they're workable or not. The way he talks about it, he'd never declined anyone unless they were impossible, regardless of whether he liked the character or not. With that in mind, he only would've considered an ARMS character on his own for base game, and it's pretty clear Spring Man, Ribbon Girl, and Min Min were among those(Ninjara is unlikely, seeing as he had no Spirit Battle, but a summonable spirit, which is less notable. No costume either). Basically, he said he considered Spring Man as much as he said he considered Min Min. That is, not at all. There's too much evidence making it clear he originally considered Spring Man regardless, but when it comes to DLC, there's nothing suggesting he outright considered an actual ARMS character either. He was just told who he could make work, figured it out it was doable, and made them work. Considering he outright talked to the director, the implication was that he had Spring Man also on his mind but wanted to understand how ARMS works far better.

 

[fogbadge]

There were no other "easy clones" either. Pikmin & Alph would require a lot more programming and Rock Pikmin weren't even considered to be used on Alph, but Olimar. It was dropped entirely. He also considered one more Pikmin character, but went with the only 3 easy clones possible.

Palutena was obvious on its own because she was still a massively popular option. Uprising helped, but she was still popular in Japan anyway. That said, Uprising is the core reason we got Dark Pit, not some silly bias. He didn't make Dark Pit in Uprising to add him to Smash, he made him because it was an interesting idea for Uprising. He was still a costume just like in Brawl during 4's initial development. There is no correlation in "Sakurai bias" when he chose the exact ones to promote. There were only 4 choices at most at that point, with maybe Daisy as a realistic fifth, and all of them had proper reasoning. Dark Pit was also massively popular in Uprising, but his own team had ideas of how to split him off. As costumes can't have their own gameplay stats, it was split off or they can't be treated as their own gameplay differences(no matter how minute). That's why they happened in the first place, which in itself could be called a bias towards "more fair stat knowledge for everyone", which was catered towards the players, not himself, mainly. Lucina happened to have the same proportions and could theoretically fight like him. On the other hand, Robin was bias. Lucina was luck that it worked out as a concept. Dr. Mario was also directly for the fans, and they wouldn't be pleased if he had an awkward moveset that makes no sense(why would he use F.L.U.D.D. despite in Melee using the Mario Tornado, essentially?).


No, he outright said Nintendo chooses the characters and he looks into each one as he's suggested and talks to them after they're suggested. That's because he literally doesn't choose them. There was never some bias thing here. He's made it again, super clear they weren't his "personal choices". That means he didn't actually choose them from a list no matter how one thinks about it. That would make no sense.


And he wouldn't have mentioned Spring Man if he wasn't also a character in consideration. It's the only reason it was pointful to make. Otherwise he'd just have left it out since any ARMS fan already knew that it had no main character to begin with. It was designed that way.


And those were for gameplay-related reasons. He finally had ideas. Doesn't really change how almost all your examples are not legitimate bias-based points.

He also doesn't have an actual personal option to outright pick for Smash Ultimate DLC(PP, the only one he ever picked later on for DLC, aside). The rest are still hard-picked by Nintendo, suggested to him, and then he decides if they're workable or not. The way he talks about it, he'd never declined anyone unless they were impossible, regardless of whether he liked the character or not. With that in mind, he only would've considered an ARMS character on his own for base game, and it's pretty clear Spring Man, Ribbon Girl, and Min Min were among those(Ninjara is unlikely, seeing as he had no Spirit Battle, but a summonable spirit, which is less notable. No costume either). Basically, he said he considered Spring Man as much as he said he considered Min Min. That is, not at all. There's too much evidence making it clear he originally considered Spring Man regardless, but when it comes to DLC, there's nothing suggesting he outright considered an actual ARMS character either. He was just told who he could make work, figured it out it was doable, and made them work. Considering he outright talked to the director, the implication was that he had Spring Man also on his mind but wanted to understand how ARMS works far better.

ok im done, if you want to believe sakurai is some kind of corporate slave who forced into everything then thats your business but two last things

the rock pikmin were meant for alph http://sourcegaming.info/2015/07/29/plucky-little-guys-olimar-and-alph-in-smash-4/

sakurai still needs to ok the character he said so himself https://twitter.com/Sora_Sakurai/status/1059958604818657282

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

ok im done, if you want to believe sakurai is some kind of corporate slave who forced into everything then thats your business but two last things

the rock pikmin were meant for alph http://sourcegaming.info/2015/07/29/plucky-little-guys-olimar-and-alph-in-smash-4/

No they weren't. You're misreading it a lot. The only thing it mentions is they were considered and that Alph was also considered as a character. In no way does it state they were considered as part of the same character. They used Rock Pikmin as an example for why Alph might've been scrapped as an idea, since it was likely that Rock Pikmin were going to be added to Alph at some point during development, despite most likely also being meant for Olimar first. It's like having multiple ideas for a character and moving one of those to a clone that comes up later. That's basically one of many ways to take it. It's 100% vague on how Rock Pikmin were meant for. You're reading the explanation of the character gameplay development, which is purely speculative on their part, using known data to help illustrate a reasonable example. As it was never stated Rock Pikmin were outright meant for Alph, it's possible they wouldn't have even had them created, and Alph would've been an Echo regardless. It's most likely this order, however, seeing as how the Pikmin are a major part of it, with everything in mind;

-Rock Pikmin were considered to add to Pikmin & Olimar
-They considered later on to go with Alph, and Rock Pikmin was also considered to help separate them
-Rock Pikmin required too much development, and Alph does not stand out without another new Pikmin, as the character is still, in context "Pikmin & Alph", so just Alph alone isn't enough to matter.
-Thus, he remained an alt in the end because things weren't workable at that point. This is also when Pikmin was hotter, and by Ultimate's development, Pikmin was no longer in the spotlight, and with little requests, Alph didn't have a chance to be split at that point. Sucks, but it makes sense for them. Go with easier Echoes or those with upcoming games/special 3rd parties first. Just lower priority.

More clearly, the idea Rock Pikmin could be added to Pikmin & Alph was speculation but not confirmed. Or a tl;dr version of the article.

Nobody is calling him a corporate slave. What we are saying is that he didn't personally choose a single character because he takes the suggestions in a row and then figures out if they're workable or not. Just like he's actually pretty clearly said multiple times. Not a single one of them were from some imaginary list either that was made up to suggest he personally picked characters for some weird reason that never matches with any of his statements. Let me make it clear to you what's really happening;

-Nintendo chooses a bunch of characters.
-They suggest one at a time to Sakurai.
-Sakurai talks to them on if they're workable or not, and agrees or denies one.

It was never anything less simple than that. Now, what's clear at best is he doesn't let bias cloud him and as long as they're workable, he'd say yes. In no way has he denied anyone out of some silly bias. He so far(as of the first pass at least) never had to deny someone for moveset issues he found. He could've denied Heihachi for the second pass due to being unable to properly transfer his moveset over in a way he feels works(Min Min is already very wonky to play as, far more than Ryu, Ken, or Terry, so it does show "button per limb" is not easy to balance. Heihachi if he was suggested by Nintendo, would've only been for Pass 2. This is possibly why he

sakurai still needs to ok the character he said so himself https://twitter.com/Sora_Sakurai/status/1059958604818657282

This doesn't relate anything to bias either. We know that. He's not going to deny a character because he dislikes them either. This doesn't correlate at all to any kind of bias whatsoever. Just cause he needs to OK another character doesn't mean he's even said no to anyone yet. We have zero knowledge of anyone he outright told them no due to legitimate reasons like licensing or gameplay issues, neither of which bias is related to.

Derp, fixed the quotes.

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

It's not necessarily biased to say that there are too many Fire Emblem characters. It could be biased to not say so.