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DL's Marth Discoveries (Updated Ledge Release, added Dash Chase)

Darklink401

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Welcome, to my thread of Marth discoveries. Probably won't be too extensive, as I don't often find cool stuff, but when I do, and it hasn't been discussed yet, I'll update the thread.

Ledge Release:

Force your opponent to give up the ledge by using dolphin slash when you're out of the stage and your opponent JUST touched the ledge. You will snap to the ledge if you're at the right distance. This will cause your opponent to give up the ledge.

Free bair. At high percents will kill, at low percents, you can combo bair into fair, then recover and prepare for edgeguarding (though characters like Ganon and Link, that don't have good recoveries, will likely die from this force-gimp.

Just somethin I was thinkin about while using Marth. As it takes a second for the opponent to react after he's thrown off, and he'll always ledge release at the same distance since damage isn't a factor, meaning always free bair.

I seem to be able to get kills 100% of the time, either from straight up bair kills or my opponent not being able to recover.

Update: Not 100% guaranteed, unless I'm doing it wrong, but it either involves short hopping from ledge and bair or falling and then bair. Will likely work on unexpected opponent if done right. Still a good option when you take the ledge from your opponent.


Dash Chase:


When:

When your opponent bounces off the ground after you fair.

Why:

Marth's fair, after you short hop, can't follow up into another SH fair. NORMALLY. But by dashing for just a split second as soon as you hit the ground, then performing another SH fair, if your opponent bounces off the ground, they won't be able to act until they land, so you can drag them across the stage if they don't tech the falls, then finish it with tipper.

How to do:

After you get a successful SHfair, and land (assuming your opponent gets knocked back by your first fair and bounces off the ground), immediately do a split-second dash, before SHfairing as he bounces up, then rinse repeat. You can perform this from one side of the stage to the other, then finish off your opponent with the last dash into SHfair being a tipper.
 
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EternalFlame

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Funny enough, I've come to a similar conclusion some time ago xD I won't say it's 100% guaranteed, since the one forced off the ledge should have time to air dodge as you go for the BAir after recovering from grabbing the ledge. But not many will expect it the first time around, and not all will be able to react fast enough to stop it.

It's definitely something to test for though. Also, this is a good start xD

EDIT: As such that you did post on this before I did, I'll be sure to point to you for credits for it xD
 
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Darklink401

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Funny enough, I've come to a similar conclusion some time ago xD I won't say it's 100% guaranteed, since the one forced off the ledge should have time to air dodge as you go for the BAir after recovering from grabbing the ledge. But not many will expect it the first time around, and not all will be able to react fast enough to stop it.

It's definitely something to test for though. Also, this is a good start xD
I tested the time it takes for Ganon to act after the ledge release, and it SHOULD be long enough to allow for a bair, considering how close Marth is. But I'll go use my friend as a guinea pig soon.

And that's definitely true, if anything, it can at least surprise opponents, and give you an early lead if you're lucky.

Also HA beat you to it, Flamey! :smirk:
 
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EternalFlame

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I tested the time it takes for Ganon to act after the ledge release, and it SHOULD be long enough to allow for a bair, considering how close Marth is. But I'll go use my friend as a guinea pig soon.

And that's definitely true, if anything, it can at least surprise opponents, and give you an early lead if you're lucky.

Also HA beat you to it, Flamey! :smirk:
Hahaha xD I look forward to hearing the results

Oh definitely. I can count a couple of times where I could have done it, but I hadn't committed it to memory.

Consider it an early lead, my friend. Once the holidays start, I'll be going into Marth breakdown in overdrive mode d: So if you want those new discoveries, you'd better work hard for it now
 

Darklink401

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Hahaha xD I look forward to hearing the results

Oh definitely. I can count a couple of times where I could have done it, but I hadn't committed it to memory.

Consider it an early lead, my friend. Once the holidays start, I'll be going into Marth breakdown in overdrive mode d: So if you want those new discoveries, you'd better work hard for it now
Last day of classes for me is tomorrow.

Give me your best shot.

XD

Convinced my friend to be guinea pig. Step 2: Will update results soon.
 

EternalFlame

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Last day of classes for me is tomorrow.

Give me your best shot.

XD

Convinced my friend to be guinea pig. Step 2: Will update results soon.
ya got a 3 week lead, make it count xD And sweet, lookin forward to that update
 

Darklink401

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ya got a 3 week lead, make it count xD And sweet, lookin forward to that update
Updated. Sadly not as good as I wish it was, but regardless, it's always an option, and the more options the better XD


Also added "Dash Chase" to the list of discoveries.
 

EternalFlame

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Yep, every option is always important to know.

Just looked at that Dash chase, it sounds quite more like a pressure tactic very normal of Marth to do xD

Weight, where your opponent DIs, tipper or non tipper, and whether they throw an attack/counter in reaction can very well break this tactic however. I imagine you want it to work at lower percents, and it would work if they make the mistake to dodge roll to the ground maybe xD But it has a lot of frames to act out of it and escape.

Though maybe I'm misunderstanding what you're going for here, so I may need to see it first hand to be able to tell if I did it right xD Of course, its either video or I actually fight you on the 3DS version to test it.
 

Darklink401

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They couldn't roll away because you keep em in the air with the fairs, silly~

I'll try and get video later :3 It's not the easiest to get goin, but that's just cuz I'm not that good XD

BTW do you have Smash Wii U yet? If so I can totes add you. If not I can add your friend code. Hell, I'll add your friend code anyway~ Wanna practice Marth dittos with you sometime XD
 
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EternalFlame

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They couldn't roll away because you keep em in the air with the fairs, silly~

I'll try and get video later :3 It's not the easiest to get goin, but that's just cuz I'm not that good XD

BTW do you have Smash Wii U yet? If so I can totes add you. If not I can add your friend code. Hell, I'll add your friend code anyway~ Wanna practice Marth dittos with you sometime XD
When I said dodge roll, I meant an air dodge dude xD I'm too use to the PSASBR terminology that I got it mixed up a bit

And yeah, it'll be good to have a video to help explain it, so people don't get confused. Besides, its understanding the principle of it that's important xD Execution can be left to the people who actually attempt it. Like I still have stuff I've written down that I haven't fully integrated into my playstyle either, so I wouldn't worry about your current skill level.

Marth/Lucina dittos are my bane xD but I'm more than happy to practice it anyways. My FC is under my avatar, just as is yours you know xD I won't be picking up the WiiU version until Christmas time, so we're stuck with the 3DS version until then.
 

Darklink401

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PSASBR?

Also, for a bit of added info, for lighter characters, you can juggle them, and for gargantuans like Ganon, who are not flung easily, then its possible to use this at higher percents when they hit the ground and bounce off (assuming they don't tech) to fair them just as they bounce up.

Still trying to get video. But WMM is stupid. Maybe I'll just play you sometime later and hope I can do it. XD If it works, as I'm quite sure that going from fair to split second dash (just to inch forward enough to hit) then doing a rising fair, is within the hitstun limits of the previous fair.
 

EternalFlame

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PSASBR?

Also, for a bit of added info, for lighter characters, you can juggle them, and for gargantuans like Ganon, who are not flung easily, then its possible to use this at higher percents when they hit the ground and bounce off (assuming they don't tech) to fair them just as they bounce up.

Still trying to get video. But WMM is stupid. Maybe I'll just play you sometime later and hope I can do it. XD If it works, as I'm quite sure that going from fair to split second dash (just to inch forward enough to hit) then doing a rising fair, is within the hitstun limits of the previous fair.
Playstation All-Stars Battle Royal - the first game I was playing at competitive level on xD Though now that I think about it, I probably dun goofed on the term all together, so my bad xD

Every detail has importance, but it's up to you how much you think is enough to share (like I won't go into percentages and frame data, that's just overboard for me xD)

I am curious to see this for myself, just send me a PM whenever you want to test it out, and I can slot out some time to help ^^
 

Darklink401

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Okay, scratch the juggling aspect I said.

It works like this, since when your opponent bounces he can't do anything until he lands again.


Of course, for the last hit, you usually wanna get a tipper to finish it off, but that just means you gotta dash for less time XDD
 

EternalFlame

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Ah, then that's the FAir setup I talked about before, and that is quite escapable xD

Every bounce on the ground means they can tech roll out of it, and even before they, they have the ability to jump out of it as the percents build up (the lighter the character, the easier it is xD). They can also DI the hit so they fly higher or lower from the FAir too, and that setup is percent specific (around 40-60% range). Anything higher, they'll fly too high up and they can just aerial back (since most players won't just let themselves fall into that hard knockdown/ground bounce animation if they're high enough)
 

Darklink401

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It IS quite escapable XP The fact I've done it successfully a few times against actual people though, DOES make me happy~

Also is it just me, or is Marth better with platforms now? In Melee, Marth had a very obvious advantage when in FD, but now platforms seem to help him out a lot.
 

EternalFlame

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It IS quite escapable XP The fact I've done it successfully a few times against actual people though, DOES make me happy~

Also is it just me, or is Marth better with platforms now? In Melee, Marth had a very obvious advantage when in FD, but now platforms seem to help him out a lot.
Oh definitely xD The fact that you've trained yourself to capitalise on it is one better than me, cus I only capitalise on it sometimes.

Hmm, platforms have always been a Marth advantage from my memory. I know a few stuff for platform based fighting, but nothing really sticks out from the ordinary. There is Chestnaught's FAir target off a platform, then jab lock into a FSmash, or just simply Utilts/UAirs on opponents on platforms and possibly comboing off of them. But besides those, it seems still like old school Marth standard fare
 
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B.A.M.

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its great that the OP is looking for new tech but none of these are either named correctly, extremely valuable options, or new. As stated by EF a cpu just falling to the ground and bouncing isnt something that an actual competitor ( no not for glory) is going to allow to happen if at all. the CPU couldved acted at any point but just fell down. its like me stating DDD has a dthrow chain grab because the CPU just fell down .

Also be sure to check things with a human opponent or check the forums before inferring you have found a solid technique. Itll save you time and will point you in the right direction for finding more viable tech
 

EternalFlame

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its great that the OP is looking for new tech but none of these are either named correctly, extremely valuable options, or new. As stated by EF a cpu just falling to the ground and bouncing isnt something that an actual competitor ( no not for glory) is going to allow to happen if at all. the CPU couldved acted at any point but just fell down. its like me stating DDD has a dthrow chain grab because the CPU just fell down .

Also be sure to check things with a human opponent or check the forums before inferring you have found a solid technique. Itll save you time and will point you in the right direction for finding more viable tech
It's a tough process to find something worthwhile and unique, but I encourage his exploration despite all that. Every new discovery starts from a small point, and you never know where it may lead when talked about it and experimented with enough xD
 

Darklink401

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its great that the OP is looking for new tech but none of these are either named correctly, extremely valuable options, or new. As stated by EF a cpu just falling to the ground and bouncing isnt something that an actual competitor ( no not for glory) is going to allow to happen if at all. the CPU couldved acted at any point but just fell down. its like me stating DDD has a dthrow chain grab because the CPU just fell down .

Also be sure to check things with a human opponent or check the forums before inferring you have found a solid technique. Itll save you time and will point you in the right direction for finding more viable tech
They may not be huge, but they both serve to capitalize on your opponent making a mistake.

Sure, it SHOULDN'T happen. But if it does? The info's there. MIght as well know what to do. ;D

EDIT: Also in terms of competitive viability, the first one is a lot more viable than the second one.
 
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