Official DLC Character Discussion Thread - Read the new sticky/announcement

[pupNapoleon]

Spoiler

Well, I'm sorry. Saying you were sarcastic made me believe the whole original post was a joke at my expense.

Im a bit saddened you think I would do that, mate.

The thing is, I'm talking about DLC. DLC =/= main roster.

Exactly. People have to choose, each time, to purchase it, which adds credence to te idea tat the series is not what is important, but rather, the character itself. DLC is where 'character balance and proportion,' the main thing I talk about in almost every post, is altered in meaning. This only weakens your argument.

If we're getting 3-6 more characters as DLC, and 10 total, do you really think that Sakurai would add 3 Pokemon characters because they're popular? You need to take roster balance into account. Just because people say that a character should be in Smash doesn't necessarily mean it's a good idea for the overall game. Despite Mario, Zelda and Pokemon being titan sized series for Nintendo, filling the DLC roster with characters from those series alienates tons of fans elsewhere. The team would be better off adding characters that are as diverse as they can possibly get.

Actually, Ive been trying to start a conversation about the possibility that we will be getting a massive update, considering Sakurai dedicated an entire extra year to this content.
As far as "better off," the only thing that wouldmake Nintendo/the team "better off," would be sales, and you have yet to explain how series diversity is solely responsible for this. For the record, I agree that it is overall a good idea, but there is also a clear correlation with popular series and higher projection of sales; this should be a given.
The same core tenants that make Snake a plausible character are the things that make Squirtle and Ivysaur likely; which would be desire to satisfy fans- they are three of the only four unique movesets playable from the veterans, and are perceptively going to boost sales to previous players (as well as satisfy the lost play styles with their exclusions). There are very few arguments that you can make regarding Snake being more likely than either of these two, the sole one being 'development time,' and that being balanced by the fact that Snake likely had no work ever done on him at all (or he would have been in the main game), where as Squirtle and Ivysaur could absolutely already have coding and work done on then, as no veterans were initially intended to be cut (though, likely Snake was earlier on, given the almost definite certainty that negotiations for the character would have been started before work on development).
I expect you will attempt to refute this, and I am all ears.

That isn't to say it's an impossibility. I didn't say it was. But it's just a bad idea to release 3 Pokemon characters as DLC. Again, just because it sells well doesn't mean that everyone wants more characters from that series. Especially when hardly any characters from that series break the top 10 in popularity.

1- you calling it a bad idea does not make it one. Pokemon has made more money for Nintendo (if we extend this to merchandising, movies, etc) than any series barring Mario. Money making is a bad idea? Wrong. You best hope Sakurai has bias enough to not only add characters by definitive sales data.
2- Popularity, as you said, isnt important...or is it? You cant argue it both ways.
3- Pokemon is popular. Squirtle is more iconic* than Snake (again, Snake =/= Metal Gear, despite your best attempts to claim otherwise). Squirtle is hands down a Nintendo all star.
4- Top ten... on polls of polls... of those who go on smash forums and post... which is still to assume the Smash ballot is by 'popularity,' when in fact, we have no rubric for how the smash ballot was used. To claim otherwise is to deny the ignorance we all face in the situation, unless you have some inside information (In which case, please do).

Spoiler

*This could be debatable, of course. However, in the context of an icon needing to be identifiable, I would surely say whom Squirtle is is easily more identifiable, in part, again, to Snakes generic and changing design.

Popularity isn't EVERYTHING for the ballot, because there are other things to take into consideration. However, it IS a ballot. Popularity is more important than it used to be.

The difference with Earthbound/Mother and a series like Chibi-Robo is that the characters from Earthbound/Mother were added to Smash as the series was alive and well. They're already in Smash, and they already have fans who play as them. Sakurai takes that seriously, and doesn't cut veterans just because he wants to. He cuts them if he HAS to. He's not going to cut a character simply because they're not "relevant". They've already made an impact on fans. It's adding a character who is already in bad shape that is the problem, theoretically. If the character has no future, in Sakurai's mindset, it may not be worth adding them.

Im sorry... can you please choose a side? Popularity is either a huge factor or it isnt. Being a veteran with a unique moveset is either important or it isnt. You cant pick which arguments fit for Snake and which dont as a basis for what you want to decide, your post literally jumps into whatever benefits that character, and its getting ridiculous.

Also, I don't know where you got your Pokemon/Smash info from, because i'm pretty sure all of the Pokemon were added because they presented unique opportunities and were popular, or were an important investment to Game Freak/The Pokemon Company

Pikachu- known worldwide by gamers/non-gamers alike as the mascot of Pokemon. Incredibly popular
Charizard- has taken polls as "Most Popular Pokemon", had important role in early anime, likely the most popular character from the Trainer Trio (was likely added over Squirtle and Ivysaur because of this)
Lucario- starred in movies (another thing that Sakurai has mentioned as being a big deal), has unique aura mechanic
Greninja- Sakurai liked his design and felt that he would present unique opportunities. Game Freak likely had a hand in this as well.

Im not on a computer where I can link you to sources- will someone out there please do me the favor of linking the article where Sakurai discusses choosing Pokemon characters? He directly states 'characters who will be prominently featured in the anime,' as well as the pokemon company having a heay hand. Which you go on to claim...

I said four Pokemon of our current roster were added for popularity and all you did was say you disagree, but then provide reasons with how you agree. Charizard was added for popularity. Lucario, for popularity. Jigglypuff, because of smash popularity. Greninja was pushed by TPC, and clearly designed to be the favorite this generation (which is debatable; yet, wit the 'coolest' design, the best ability for competition by far, and of course, his inclusion in Smash).

I could go on, but here's another thing. Sakurai has gone on record saying how difficult it can be to negotiate with Game Freak/The Pokemon Company. Who do you think the company wants added to an all-star brawler game? The most popular characters/characters who are going to be pushed. They aren't just going to add a random Pokemon because "reasons".

I bet its easier to work with them than a third party company who isnt even in the gaming industry anymore, and wherein the creator and his source of contact were fired. If TPC is hard to negotiate with, and that is why we arent getting Pokmeon DLC, then consider Snake SOL, not 'likely.'
Additionally, Ive propogated the idea of NOT adding 'random' Pokemon, but rather, characters that actually represent the series. Again, if proper series representation (and not just the actual 'random' but popular 'mon we have) counts as "reasons," then pat yourself on the back in hypocrisy for crying about 'balanced and quality representation of a series.'

Popularity IS important...but it's not the only important thing taken into consideration. This is a multi-step process.

Here, finally, we agree. Unfortunately any reasoning you use cancels itself out in all other fields.

I'll be the first one to tell you I dont think any series should be oversaturated. That said.
Roy is evidence that this is not the primary goal. You can make any claim you want, about Lucina being developed last minute or Roy being added as a veteran- five characters from a series that nearly went extinct is oversaturation. This is only an opinion by a technicality.
Id also be more than happy to share elaborate essays on why eight Pokemon characters is not 'oversaturation,' in the given roster we have, because it is one of only two Nintendo franchises to transcend the video game confines and be known as pop cultural icons- and is, as I have said, studied in numerous fields (anthropology, sociology, economics, and more) as to being a PHENOMENON. It was a phenomenon (by definition) through 2001, and transcends the video game confines (not just literally, but in cultural impact) extensively.

 

[Gunla]

pupNapoleon
Snake is the core of Metal Gear. There's always a Snake. There's a reason there's so many Snakes. There's a reason Raiden even is codenamed Snake for part of MGS2.

So Snake = Metal Gear.

 

[IndigoSSB]

Im not on a computer where I can link you to sources- will someone out there please do me the favor of linking the article where Sakurai discusses choosing Pokemon characters? He directly states 'characters who will be prominently featured in the anime,' as well as the pokemon company having a heay hand. Which you go on to claim...

http://www.gamnesia.com/news/how-does-sakurai-choose-pokemon-to-smash

This one maybe? He talks about how he chooses pokemon involved in current pokemon movies and the anime.

 

[Big-Cat]

Im sorry... can you please choose a side? Popularity is either a huge factor or it isnt. Being a veteran with a unique moveset is either important or it isnt. You cant pick which arguments fit for Snake and which dont as a basis for what you want to decide, your post literally jumps into whatever benefits that character, and its getting ridiculous.

You're being dumb. Everything is a case by case basis. Things like moveset potential, popularity, and more have different weights depending on the scenario. There's no one size fits all criteria. Popularity is a huge factor, but it's not everything. Else, we would've gotten Chrom, but he didn't bring anything new to the table - reminder that Lucina was originally a Marth alt. Veterans are more than likely to return except for a few possible reasons: was a clone and didn't feel worth returning (at the time at least), a copyright issue (Snake) or a technical issue (Ice Climbers).

However, even with veterans, it's a case by case basis.

And you're an idiot to think we can seriously get 20 characters and a new mode in a year of development. This isn't adding weapons in Splatoon.

 

[pupNapoleon]

pupNapoleon
Snake is the core of Metal Gear. There's always a Snake. There's a reason there's so many Snakes. There's a reason Raiden even is codenamed Snake for part of MGS2.

So Snake = Metal Gear.

False. A character is not a series. Metal Gear may not exist without Snake, but there is a reason characters and franchises are separated in the gaming hall of fame. Some characters are added (such as Link) and some franchises are added.

Snake may STAND FOR his series, but he is not de facto the series.

Big-Cat When you learn that factless name calling isnt a rebuttal, perhaps I will take your responses serious enough to dignify with adult conversation. With lack of any actual counter point to anything I brought up, I will simply say, you're a poopyface.

 

[Big-Cat]

False. A character is not a series. Metal Gear may not exist without Snake, but there is a reason characters and franchises are separated in the gaming hall of fame. Some characters are added (such as Link) and some franchises are added.

Snake may STAND FOR his series, but he is not de facto the series.

You know those halls of fame are arbitrary, right?

Yes, we get that the series is not called Solid Snake, Venom Snake, Naked Snake, or Pool Noodle, but who besides you gives a ****?

 

[Gunla]

Metal Gear may not exist without Snake

And that's exactly why Snake is the heart of Metal Gear.

If there's no Snake, in your words, there wouldn't be a Metal Gear.

 

[Big-Cat]

False. A character is not a series. Metal Gear may not exist without Snake, but there is a reason characters and franchises are separated in the gaming hall of fame. Some characters are added (such as Link) and some franchises are added.

Snake may STAND FOR his series, but he is not de facto the series.

@kumaosa When you learn that factless name calling isnt a rebuttal, perhaps I will take your responses serious enough to dignify with adult conversation. With lack of any actual counter point to anything I brought up, I will simply say, you're a poopyface.

Am I pretty poopyface?

 

[The Light Music Club]

So it was all for attention like some of us expected?

VERY good....

I wouldn't say for sure. I mean I talked to Roger about it and he told me he really didn't want to spoil anyone over it. He actually is pretty nice dude, and I think he was confident in his source. That's the problem with being a middle man, you get screwed over when the message is wrong.

 

[pupNapoleon]

You know those halls of fame are arbitrary, right?

Yes, we get that the series is not called Solid Snake, Venom Snake, Naked Snake, or Pool Noodle, but who besides you gives a ****?

What makes it arbitrary? Moreso, what makes it more arbitrary than all of this fan-made criteria?

The Light Music Club
Im not sure I call that a 'problem' with being a middle man. If he can bask in the glory of his sources enough to garnish a career and be seen as someone with inside info, then he should be able to take responsibility for the misinformation he further perpetuates. It doesnt go one way.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Spoiler

Im a bit saddened you think I would do that, mate.

Exactly. People have to choose, each time, to purchase it, which adds credence to te idea tat the series is not what is important, but rather, the character itself. DLC is where 'character balance and proportion,' the main thing I talk about in almost every post, is altered in meaning. This only weakens your argument.


Actually, Ive been trying to start a conversation about the possibility that we will be getting a massive update, considering Sakurai dedicated an entire extra year to this content.
As far as "better off," the only thing that wouldmake Nintendo/the team "better off," would be sales, and you have yet to explain how series diversity is solely responsible for this. For the record, I agree that it is overall a good idea, but there is also a clear correlation with popular series and higher projection of sales; this should be a given.
The same core tenants that make Snake a plausible character are the things that make Squirtle and Ivysaur likely; which would be desire to satisfy fans- they are three of the only four unique movesets playable from the veterans, and are perceptively going to boost sales to previous players (as well as satisfy the lost play styles with their exclusions). There are very few arguments that you can make regarding Snake being more likely than either of these two, the sole one being 'development time,' and that being balanced by the fact that Snake likely had no work ever done on him at all (or he would have been in the main game), where as Squirtle and Ivysaur could absolutely already have coding and work done on then, as no veterans were initially intended to be cut (though, likely Snake was earlier on, given the almost definite certainty that negotiations for the character would have been started before work on development).
I expect you will attempt to refute this, and I am all ears.


1- you calling it a bad idea does not make it one. Pokemon has made more money for Nintendo (if we extend this to merchandising, movies, etc) than any series barring Mario. Money making is a bad idea? Wrong. You best hope Sakurai has bias enough to not only add characters by definitive sales data.
2- Popularity, as you said, isnt important...or is it? You cant argue it both ways.
3- Pokemon is popular. Squirtle is more iconic than Snake (again, Snake =/= Metal Gear, despite your best attempts to claim otherwise). Squirtle is hands down a NIntendo all star.
4- Top ten... on polls of polls... of those who go on smash forums and post... which is still to assume the Smash ballot is by 'popularity,' when in fact, we have no rubric for how the smash ballot was used. To claim otherwise is to deny the ignorance we all face in the situation, unless you have some inside information (In which case, please do).




Im sorry... can you please choose a side? Popularity is either a huge factor or it isnt. Being a veteran with a unique moveset is either important or it isnt. You cant pick which arguments fit for Snake and which dont as a basis for what you want to decide, your post literally jumps into whatever benefits that character, and its getting ridiculous.


Im not on a computer where I can link you to sources- will someone out there please do me the favor of linking the article where Sakurai discusses choosing Pokemon characters? He directly states 'characters who will be prominently featured in the anime,' as well as the pokemon company having a heay hand. Which you go on to claim...

I said four Pokemon of our current roster were added for popularity and all you did was say you disagree, but then provide reasons with how you agree. Charizard was added for popularity. Lucario, for popularity. Jigglypuff, because of smash popularity. Greninja was pushed by TPC, and clearly designed to be the favorite this generation (which is debatable; yet, wit the 'coolest' design, the best ability for competition by far, and of course, his inclusion in Smash).


I bet its easier to work with them than a third party company who isnt even in the gaming industry anymore, and wherein the creator and his source of contact were fired. If TPC is hard to negotiate with, and that is why we arent getting Pokmeon DLC, then consider Snake SOL, not 'likely.'
Additionally, Ive propogated the idea of NOT adding 'random' Pokemon, but rather, characters that actually represent the series. Again, if proper series representation (and not just the actual 'random' but popular 'mon we have) counts as "reasons," then pat yourself on the back in hypocrisy for crying about 'balanced and quality representation of a series.'


Here, finally, we agree. Unfortunately any reasoning you use cancels itself out in all other fields.

I'll be the first one to tell you I dont think any series should be oversaturated. That said.
Roy is evidence that this is not the primary goal. You can make any claim you want, about Lucina being developed last minute or Roy being added as a veteran- five characters from a series that nearly went extinct is oversaturation. This is only an opinion by a technicality.
Id also be more than happy to share elaborate essays on why eight Pokemon characters is not 'oversaturation,' in the given roster we have, because it is one of only two Nintendo franchises to transcend the video game confines and be known as pop cultural icons- and is, as I have said, studied in numerous fields (anthropology, sociology, economics, and more) as to being a PHENOMENON. It was a phenomenon (by definition) through 2001, and transcends the video game confines (not just literally, but in cultural impact) extensively.

If you think I was disagreeing about popularity, I wasn't. I was saying that it isn't the only factor. That's literally why I listed other things besides popularity.

I think many people who enjoy Smash Bros for series that aren't Mario, Zelda or Pokemon would be rather upset by the fact that we'd get 90% of DLC as 3 series. That's just...a bad idea. I don't see why it's a GOOD idea. All Nintendo has done for years is recycle those series, and people (their fans) are getting upset because there's hardly any content from the other series. Metroid, F-Zero and others are examples of these. Pumping out more Mario, Zelda and Pokemon is not a good idea with this in mind. I'm thinking of Smash in terms of what makes the game more diverse and fun. Not what is "represented". It's a video game that we PLAY. Not a hall of fame that we stare at in all its glory.

Why must you **** on a character somebody likes? I didn't even do that. You say, "Snake =/= Metal Gear" but then I guess I don't get what you're saying. Is Mario not Mario because he doesn't do everything in his home series in Smash? How about Fox or Captain Falcon? DK? That line doesn't make any sense. If you're going to pick a character from Metal Gear, a series that has already proven itself to be legendary AND popular (especially if we're taking the fact that Snake beats thousands of other characters in the ballot into account) who else are you going to pick? Snake is the main character of the series. You're going to pick Snake. You're going to have to elaborate, which even if you claim I haven't disputed, you haven't explained that either.

You can't replicate the strategy of Fire Emblem or Pokemon in their characters in Smash, so I guess they don't represent their series well...that doesn't make any sense. If that mattered, they wouldn't be there. Clearly a 100% representation of their series isn't important, or else Sakurai wouldn't have given certain characters like Ness attacks they can't do in their source games.

Konami is still in the gaming industry. There was recently an article where Konami clarified. They're still working on Metal Gear.

The problem with your response is that you're treating each criteria for the character as if they are all independent of each other. As if popularity works for itself when it doesn't. Squirtle and Ivysaur don't have a disadvantage because of popularity, but because of an overaturation. You may not think so, but when the roster adds 3 Pokemon characters as DLC, that's a bit much. But that's simply my opinion, and people are free to agree or disagree. What hurts Snake is the possibility that negotiations aren't approached or what not. There are positives and negatives to everything.

What I said about Snake and popularity vs. the Pokemon is that Snake is projected to be Top 10 (not to mention the highest ranked 3rd party). That's pretty significant.

I have a feeling nothing I say is going to convince you anyway, so whatever. All I can say is that there are more than a few factors at play. Popularity is important, but it doesn't dictate everything. That's what I've been saying this whole time.

BTW, you don't need a degree to know how popular Pokemon is. That still doesn't mean it's guaranteed a good idea to put a bunch of them in as DLC because of it.

ALSO:
>criticizes fanmade criteria (which is frankly based on information we know)
>creates own criteria

 

[APC99]

False. A character is not a series. Metal Gear may not exist without Snake, but there is a reason characters and franchises are separated in the gaming hall of fame. Some characters are added (such as Link) and some franchises are added.

Snake may STAND FOR his series, but he is not de facto the series.

This literally hurts my head.

Hall of fame? The hell? Why does this have anything to do with Smash? Snake was a favor to Kojima, and people want him because he was a good character in Brawl. It adds on to the fact Metal Gear is a huge franchise on the levels of the other third-parties, and Snake is a main character.

Also, a year for 20 non-clone characters? What? Orbital Gate Assault took one year to make! They nearly cut Bowser Jr. and the Zero Suit Samus costumes due to lack of time! It takes time to balance, add animations, create a model, sound effects, lighting, Kirby hats, trophies, palettes... There aren't even that many newcomers in-game now, INCLUDING the Miis and Ryu!

The f***? This isn't freaking Mario Kart 8, where characters are all the same with minor changes, they actually take time! It doesn't matter if you port it from Brawl, there's still balancing, and in the case of Squirtle / Ivysaur, adding in a new FS and Down Special!

Christ, man! Calm yourself!

 

[Big-Cat]

What makes it arbitrary? Moreso, what makes it more arbitrary than all of this fan-made criteria?

They're the same exact thing. Only one gives out plaques and trophies.

 

[Troykv]

It's sad see this place sometimes for me at least.

Popularity is important... but... it can't be everything.

I feel like a hispter everyday that I see people talking about Fire Emblem

 

[Ikenna]

This literally hurts my head.

Hall of fame? The hell? Why does this have anything to do with Smash? Snake was a favor to Kojima, and people want him because he was a good character in Brawl. It adds on to the fact Metal Gear is a huge franchise on the levels of the other third-parties, and Snake is a main character.

Also, a year for 20 non-clone characters? What? Orbital Gate Assault took one year to make! They nearly cut Bowser Jr. and the Zero Suit Samus costumes due to lack of time! It takes time to balance, add animations, create a model, sound effects, lighting, Kirby hats, trophies, palettes... There aren't even that many newcomers in-game now, INCLUDING the Miis and Ryu!

The f***? This isn't freaking Mario Kart 8, where characters are all the same with minor changes, they actually take time! It doesn't matter if you port it from Brawl, there's still balancing, and in the case of Squirtle / Ivysaur, adding in a new FS and Down Special!

Christ, man! Calm yourself!

It's sad see this place sometimes for me at least.

Popularity is important... but... it can't be everything.

I feel like a hispter everyday that I see people talking about Fire Emblem

Agreed. Personally think at least one character should be handpicked(From the top 50?), within the reasoning of the council of the Smash team.

 

[Burruni]

Popularity isn't everything. Not having it is.

...Unless you're hand-picked by Sakurai to embody a gimmick/moveset (basically our retros and Miis).

 

[pupNapoleon]

I have gone on record too many times claiming popularity is NOT everything. However, if we are going to bring up the discussion of popularity, particularly within veterans, then Im going to bring up the series with the most cut veterans, and the most popularity. Id appreciate someone telling me where I said a character was going to get in because of popularity.

That said, I'm quite literally baffled as to how to continue a conversation with those who do not comprehend the difference between a character and a franchise.

 

[Bowserlick]

Just release K. Rool already.

I NEED another super-heavyweight.

 

[pupNapoleon]

What are some of the more recognizable heavy characters who could be added from Nintendo?

We have been speaking on behalf of King K Rool and Pig Ganon, but who are some others, particularly from a non-antagonistic morality?

I know Im holding out for Snorlax to get in to Pokken Wii U.

 

[matt91486]

What are some of the more recognizable heavy characters who could be added from Nintendo?

We have been speaking on behalf of King K Rool and Pig Ganon, but who are some others, particularly from a non-antagonistic morality?

I know Im holding out for Snorlax to get in to Pokken Wii U.

I don't know that I ever found out who owns the random side characters from Diddy Kong Racing - if Nintendo does, then Wizpig would be a heavy character. Would Starman or someone else from Pro Wrestling?

 

[pupNapoleon]

I don't know that I ever found out who owns the random side characters from Diddy Kong Racing - if Nintendo does, then Wizpig would be a heavy character. Would Starman or someone else from Pro Wrestling?

I cannot link you a source (if that is required), but I do believe it is absolutely official that the characters in DKR are owned by Rare.
By the way- would 'Diddy Kong Racing 2' qualify as enough of a gain for Nintendo to add Banjo Kazooie? (Opinion questio, of course). If not, what would?

I truly believe if Microsoft paid for the development of BK, it would be enough (not that I think that would happen).

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

Kraid

Black Knight would be cool. Perhaps they could design Hades in a way that would make him heavy as well. I feel like Mach Rider would be heavy also.

 

[Burruni]

One, should be far heavier than she is if in the Mario Kart games she is equal in weight class to .

K. Rool
Ganon
Ridley
Ray MKIII (legit, let's get a small but heavy character considering he's a friggin robot)

Those are the big ones to mind.

 

[pupNapoleon]

One, should be far heavier than she is if in the Mario Kart games she is equal in weight class to .

K. Rool
Ganon
Ridley
Ray MKIII (legit, let's get a small but heavy character considering he's a friggin robot)

Those are the big ones to mind.

I'm not in much knowledge of the Custom Robo series, but have been a longtime advocate of any version of Ray from that of which I do have knowledge; is there a particular reason he would be a heavyweight?

I'll admit I thought the awareness of his customizable nature was his best unique qualifier, which made the Palutena bias all the more apparent and infuriating.

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

Ray probably would NOT be a heavy, as human characters carry Robos around in tiny cubes. Ray would probably be small, fast, and lightweight if he's accurate to source material. I think he's between 6-12 inches tall. Can't remember exactly.

 

[Burruni]

I'm not in much knowledge of the Custom Robo series, but have been a longtime advocate of any version of Ray from that of which I do have knowledge; is there a particularly reason he would be a heavyweight?

I'll admit I thought the awareness of his customizable nature was his best unique qualifier, which made the Palutena bias all the more apparent and infuriating.

Because Robots are friggin heavy and it'd certainly be a unique twist.

The fact that is middle-heavy is decent for this but... I feel like it'd really work for Ray. (Hell, should've had it)

Edit:

Ray probably would NOT be a heavy, as human characters carry Robos around in tiny cubes. Ray would probably be small, fast, and lightweight if he's accurate to source material. I think he's between 6-12 inches tall. Can't remember exactly.

My bad. My experience with CR is a demo for the gamecube game.

Point redacted, I'm a Fraud.

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

Because Robots are friggin heavy and it'd certainly be a unique twist.

The fact that is middle-heavy is decent for this but... I feel like it'd really work for Ray. (Hell, should've had it)

Edit:

My bad. My experience with CR is a demo for the gamecube game.

Point redacted, I'm a Fraud.

Custom Robo combat is largely based around really fast-paced action. You need to be able to quickly weave throughout the air as well as the walls and barriers in the holosseum to be effective. Speed is certainly the name of that game. And then my point about how they are transported speaks to the weight of them.

 

[pupNapoleon]

Kraid

Black Knight would be cool. Perhaps they could design Hades in a way that would make him heavy as well. I feel like Mach Rider would be heavy also.

Excite Biker...I agree on that front. He is also a character I have long wanted. I just wish Sakurai would creatively solve the ramp/jump issue, seems a poor excuse for him to stay out. I dont see why him summoning ramps would be different than the Ice Climbers summoning ice.

 

[King Sonnn DeDeDoo]

I cannot link you a source (if that is required), but I do believe it is absolutely official that the characters in DKR are owned by Rare.
By the way- would 'Diddy Kong Racing 2' qualify as enough of a gain for Nintendo to add Banjo Kazooie? (Opinion questio, of course). If not, what would?

I truly believe if Microsoft paid for the development of BK, it would be enough (not that I think that would happen).

Wizpig was in diddy kong racing 2 and that was after the rare buyout. Banjo and conker weren't in there though.

But back to your original question. Mallo from pushmo would work. Since he's a sumo he could be a heavyweight, but he'd also be very compact. Paired with his block moving abilities he could have an interesting moveset.

 

[Burruni]

Custom Robo combat is largely based around really fast-paced action. You need to be able to quickly weave throughout the air as well as the walls and barriers in the holosseum to be effective. Speed is certainly the name of that game. And then my point about how they are transported speaks to the weight of them.

To be fair.
I didn't say he'd be slow.
Just heavy.
Example:

(Edit: Possibly have his second jump being a different kind of float that's more like a jetpack with limited range but then the up B being an explosive launch. Once again, limited knowledge)

But yeah, I didn't know about the logistics of their size. The Brawl AT made him appear about the side of a Medabot.

 

[Giga Kaiju]

As a fan of the series, I can say that Ray (any incarnation) is NOT a heavyweight character. In comparison with the rest of the 'robos' of it, he is considered as the average-well-rounded type of character in the games themselves. He'd be normal-size-weight. But I can sort of see him/it being lightweight if one day he's part of the roster.

 

[Ura]

Brought up the latest posts for the sake of ease.
It's a military expression mate.

Sorry dude. I took that the wrong way so excuse me.

I can forgive Ganon being a Falcon clone in Melee due to being a last minute addition, but him still being one when we have the likes of Hyrule Warriors Ganon now is just embarrassing.

Yeah, changing him may alienate some players, but I'd argue that making him go from fairly agile in Melee to slower than a glacier in Brawl is just as alienating.

I agree with this sentiment very much. I honestly doubt there's going to be that many Dorf fans who would be upset about the move change. If there is, they would just get over it because they would know that his moveset is closer to his canon self.

I would also go a step further than just "Ganondorf should use a sword". He should use his magic abilities that he uses especially in OoT. When I first got Melee 12 years ago and found out Ganondorf was in the game, I was expecting him to do something like this.

And this

So I was disappointed when he was just a C. Falcon clone. If the day ever comes that Sakurai decides to declone Ganondorf, he should incorporate a moveset where he uses a sword and uses his magic abilities like the ones I just mentioned.

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

To be fair.
I didn't say he'd be slow.
Just heavy.
Example:

(Edit: Possibly have his second jump being a different kind of float that's more like a jetpack with limited range but then the up B being an explosive launch. Once again, limited knowledge)

But yeah, I didn't know about the logistics of their size. The Brawl AT made him appear about the side of a Medabot.

I always suggested that he gets 1 normal jump and then two quick 45° dashes as jump 2 and 3. He wouldn't have the normal double jump OR the multi jumps that some characters have. That would also be accurate to source material.

 

[pupNapoleon]

I think a character needs to be justified as being heavier- if Ray is average weight just because he is the everyman in his game, it doesnt really at well with how he fits into the amalgamated universe.

Sorry dude. I took that the wrong way so excuse me.

I agree with this sentiment very much. I honestly doubt there's going to be that many Dorf fans who would be upset about the move change. If there is, they would just get over it because they would know that his moveset is closer to his canon self.

I would also go a step further than just "Ganondorf should use a sword". He should use his magic abilities that he uses especially in OoT. When I first got Melee 12 years ago and found out Ganondorf was in the game, I was expecting him to do something like this.

And this

So I was disappointed when he was just a C. Falcon clone. If the day ever comes that Sakurai decides to declone Ganondorf, he should incorporate a moveset where he uses a sword and uses his magic abilities like the ones I just mentioned.

I hold steadfast to the notion that Ganondorf would be completely perfect in his representation if he 1- Ran as a levitation instead of a physical run (such as in PM); 2- Had a projectile; 3- Had a reflector. The levitation is the biggest issue of them, for me.

 

[Burruni]

I think a character needs to be justified as being heavier- if Ray is average weight just because he is the everyman in his game, it doesnt really at well with how he fits into the amalgamated universe.


I hold steadfast to the notion that Ganondorf would be completely perfect in his representation if he 1- Ran as a levitation instead of a physical run (such as in PM); 2- Had a projectile; 3- Had a reflector. The levitation is the biggest issue of them, for me.

Honestly his run is such an issue. In Melee it looked decent but Grampadorf was never belt for speed (to run, I mean).

As I've said, have warlock punch come a bit faster, lose most of the power on the fist, but launch something akin to a fully charged Shadow Ball. Get a compromise out of that.

 

[Yellowlord]

Although we're talking about Zelda at this moment, I have some news that (while somewhat off-topic), is related to the possiblity of playable Octolings in Splatoon; Nikki found some huge pieces of evidence that pretty much confirms them at this point (at least from what I've seen, anyways).

Here's a few of her most important tweets relating to this;

Evidence of finding updated animations for Female Inkling/ Female Octoling models (Males have their own file, apparently): https://twitter.com/NWPlayer123/status/656676776207237120

Gathering up all the evidence that has been found: https://twitter.com/NWPlayer123/status/656679021829210112

Coding/Pictures: https://twitter.com/NWPlayer123/status/656680125581230080

 

[JaidynReiman]

I cannot link you a source (if that is required), but I do believe it is absolutely official that the characters in DKR are owned by Rare.
By the way- would 'Diddy Kong Racing 2' qualify as enough of a gain for Nintendo to add Banjo Kazooie? (Opinion questio, of course). If not, what would?

I truly believe if Microsoft paid for the development of BK, it would be enough (not that I think that would happen).

If they can keep the original DKR characters, but the Diddy Kong Racing title does not necessitate ANY involvement from Rare. Nintendo can make Diddy Kong Racing 2 and populate it with DKC and other Nintendo characters and I doubt anyone would bat an eye.

What are some of the more recognizable heavy characters who could be added from Nintendo?

We have been speaking on behalf of King K Rool and Pig Ganon, but who are some others, particularly from a non-antagonistic morality?

I know Im holding out for Snorlax to get in to Pokken Wii U.

That's just the problem. There's not a whole lot of great candidates. Which makes it even more annoying that K. Rool got the shaft, since he's one of the best candidates to consider.


Some options:
Samurai Goroh (F-Zero)
A rival, but not necessarily a villain. He could probably fit as a heavyweight.

Max (Advance Wars)
Slim chance of him happening. Sami or Andy would get in before Max most likely, but Max would fit.

Hector (Fire Emblem)
Slim chance of him happening, but he'd have a solid moveset and use an axe instead.

Medusa (Kid Icarus)
Eh? Maybe. She could -possibly- be a heavyweight.

Wizpig was in diddy kong racing 2 and that was after the rare buyout. Banjo and conker weren't in there though.

That doesn't matter. Banjo and Conker are just the only characters who appeared on MS consoles outside of re-releases. All characters in the original Diddy Kong Racing were specifically proclaimed to be owned by Rare. The only exceptions were Diddy Kong, Krunch, and Banjo, which the box specifically states were "licensed by Nintendo." Yes, before the buyout Banjo was owned by Nintendo, not Rare. Nintendo could've kept the IP, but they decided to give it up and allow Rare to keep it (which I applaud Nintendo for, because most IP holders would just keep it even if they don't care about it at all).

In Diddy Kong Racing DS, Rare still produced the game, so they were able to reuse the existing characters. They could've reused Banjo and Conker, but they were dropped likely because they had more spread out into their own games by that point.


http://www.mariowiki.com/images/6/65/NA_DKR_boxart.png

Here is the Diddy Kong Racing original box art. This part is important:

*Trademark of Nintendo, Diddy Kong, Banjo, and Krunch characters licensed by Nintendo.

 

[Ura]

I think a character needs to be justified as being heavier- if Ray is average weight just because he is the everyman in his game, it doesnt really at well with how he fits into the amalgamated universe.


I hold steadfast to the notion that Ganondorf would be completely perfect in his representation if he 1- Ran as a levitation instead of a physical run (such as in PM); 2- Had a projectile; 3- Had a reflector. The levitation is the biggest issue of them, for me.

I guess the idea I pitched would fall under number 2 in your list. One of his specials could involve him levitating and throwing the projectile and depending on how long it's charged, it can turn in to the second projectile that I posted in my previous post.

Honestly his run is such an issue. In Melee it looked decent but Grampadorf was never belt for speed (to run, I mean).

I can rant on Brawl Dorf all day long man (Sm4sH Dorf as well by proxy). There's just so many screwups with the way he executes his moves and his presentation overall. The most egregious example being his running animation of course. I have no idea why they just couldn't stick with the Melee running animation.

 

[Giga Kaiju]

Honestly, the idea of Ray being a small-lightweight character seems more interesting to me than being 'normal-sized-weight'. His appearance in Brawl made him smaller than you'd think of him being, but then again, in the series themselves they're not as big. (Debatably, but still...) Making him Squirtle-even-Mario sized seems like a good balance to how he'd be.

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

Honestly, the idea of Ray being a small-lightweight character seems more interesting to me than being 'normal-sized-weight'. His appearance in Brawl made him smaller than you'd think of him being, but then again, in the series themselves they're not as big. (Debatably, but still...) Making him Squirtle-even-Mario sized seems like a good balance to how he'd be.

I pictured him to be roughly Squirtle sized. Maybe slightly taller.