Official DLC Character Discussion Thread - Read the new sticky/announcement

[The Light Music Club]

I present to you a choice.

or

Someone forgot about Nekopara the game actually has a chest bounce slider:

Neither are correct.

While it's true that she was a character that very few if at all expected to show up, she WAS NOT added for that reason.

Oh yeah, I'm wrong. I remember someone saying that a while back and for some reason thought Sakurai was the one to actually say that. Thanks for the correction.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

It should say enough that I was worried about mods being upset if I posted up the European box art for that game.

I hear the Senran Kagura games are very solid games, Jim Sterling's fans almost entirely disliked his review because it only focused on the fanservice iirc

 

[Kenith]

This is why Wii it Trainer was chosen:

Of note is the out-selling of Pac-Man.
Uniqueness was a factor too.

I present to you a choice.

or

Based on merit I'd say Kasumi.
Based on fanservice I'd say everyone from Senran Kagura.

 

[Burruni]

Someone forgot about Nekopara the game actually has a chest bounce slider:

Oh yeah, I'm wrong. I remember someone saying that a while back and for some reason thought Sakurai was the one to actually say that. Thanks for the correction.

UNLESS NEKOPARA WAS ON A NINTENDO CONSOLE MY POINT STANDS.

I hear the Senran Kagura games are very solid games, Jim Sterling's fans almost entirely disliked his review because it only focused on the fanservice iirc

They're.... shallower Bayonetta. The gameplay, characters, and story actually draws you in a lot more than the clear fanservice that it wears on its sleeve. But it certainly doesn't have the raw quality of music or writing that Bayonetta totes.

Jesus it took so much willpower not to make a mammary pun.

 

[A Distant Demon]

Sorry, it was a mistake, auto-correct on my phone sucks. It auto-corrected from Ivysaur.

Ivysaur. . .auto corrected to Snake.

yeah ok man you can just admit you were wrong instead of looking silly.

 

[NintenZ]

Am I the only one that thinks Kasumi could be an interesting addition for Smash?

 

[Cutie Gwen]

UNLESS NEKOPARA WAS ON A NINTENDO CONSOLE MY POINT STANDS.




They're.... shallower Bayonetta. The gameplay, characters, and story actually draws you in a lot more than the clear fanservice that it wears on its sleeve.

Xenoblade X lets you adjust bust size, just saiyan

It's so shameless too...Really rare, especially with Quiet's justification in MGSV

 

[Burruni]

Am I the only one that thinks Kasumi could be an interesting addition for Smash?

Ryu Hayabusa being a main character of that series AND the main actual Ninja Gaiden titles argues against Kasumi being the person who bust-- BOASTS THE CREDITS! URRRGH I TRIED TO NOT DO IT

 

[Munomario777]

8 player Smash can't even handle Metal Face, so nope, not to mention making a character exclusive to the less popular version will certainly be career suicide

It can handle up to eight characters, though, which is essentially what the ICs are in a four-player match. Heck, Sakurai's blatantly said that they were working on the Wii U version:

Among [the fighters who did not make it into the game] are the Ice Climbers, who were playable during development on the Wii U. However, moving the two as a pair required significant processing power. The 3DS was already being pushed to its limit, and I couldn’t get them to work no matter how hard I tried, so I gave up on them.

There will never be a version exclusive character in Super Smash Bros. If there was ever going to be one if would have happened already.

I don't see the logic in this. This is the first Smash Bros. game to have two versions, and it's not even finished yet (DLC). It's way too early to tell.

As far as Sakurai saying that the two versions would have the same roster, he does change his mind from time to time. He said the Villager had no moveset potential back in the Brawl days, but here we are.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Ryu Hayabusa being a main character of that series AND the main actual Ninja Gaiden titles argues against Kasumi being the person who bust-- BOASTS THE CREDITS! URRRGH I TRIED TO NOT DO IT

Burruni dear, it's just a breast pun, calm your ****. WAIT...

Ryu Hayabusa is an interesting choice, for some reason I keep thinking of Stider Hiryu when thinking of how he'd play in Smash

 

[Wintropy]

As far as Sakurai saying that the two versions would have the same roster, he does change his mind from time to time. He said the Villager had no moveset potential back in the Brawl days, but here we are.

He didn't say that. He said he didn't think Villager fit the tone of the game, due to the character's "peaceful" nature.

There's a difference between changing your mind on a character's thematic depiction and changing your mind on what is potentially a very risky business decision.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Do you guys think Koei Tecmo's relationship with Nintendo with the Hyrule Warriors releases give Ryu Hayabasa a better chance? Just wondering, haven't seen anyone brought it up.

 

[NintenZ]

Burruni dear, it's just a breast pun, calm your ****. WAIT...

Ryu Hayabusa is an interesting choice, for some reason I keep thinking of Stider Hiryu when thinking of how he'd play in Smash

Huh, they're pretty similar if you think about it.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

It can handle up to eight characters, though, which is essentially what the ICs are in a four-player match. Heck, Sakurai's blatantly said that they were working on the Wii U version:


I don't see the logic in this. This is the first Smash Bros. game to have two versions, and it's not even finished yet (DLC). It's way too early to tell.

As far as Sakurai saying that the two versions would have the same roster, he does change his mind from time to time. He said the Villager had no moveset potential back in the Brawl days, but here we are.

Except 8 player smash wasn't officially confirmed then. 8 player smash also lags and removes certain hazards to reduce the lag.
Sakurai changing his mind on 1 character =/= changing business decision, the 3DS version is the best selling Smash game yet, outselling the Wii U version with ease, why screw over the majority?

 

[Burruni]

It can handle up to eight characters, though, which is essentially what the ICs are in a four-player match. Heck, Sakurai's blatantly said that they were working on the Wii U version:


I don't see the logic in this. This is the first Smash Bros. game to have two versions, and it's not even finished yet (DLC). It's way too early to tell.

As far as Sakurai saying that the two versions would have the same roster, he does change his mind from time to time. He said the Villager had no moveset potential back in the Brawl days, but here we are.

WRONG
WRONG
WRONG IN SO MANY PLACES.

Let me scroll back to what I said earlier today.

Him going back on his word is INCREDIBLY rare, however.

: "A fighter from the likes of Animal Crossing or Nintendogs wouldn't really fit in Smash because they're so Non-Violent."

Second: Ice Climbers would have to work without issue 60 fps a) on 3DS with 4 players all using them and b) on WiiU 8-Player Smash, meaning 16 Ice Climbers active.

Sakurai won't change his stance to force two characters to function on HALF of the game's versions. NINTENDO won't fund that for DLC.

 

[Autumn ♫]

Do you guys think Koei Tecmo's relationship with Nintendo with the Hyrule Warriors releases give Ryu Hayabasa a better chance? Just wondering, haven't seen anyone brought it up.

Maybe, but not enough to matter either way.

 

[NintenZ]

Ivysaur. . .auto corrected to Snake.

yeah ok man you can just admit you were wrong instead of looking silly.

No really, on the Snake thread I typed in something similar to what I said earlier, since my phone didn't know what Ivysaur was, it corrected it to the word most closely associated to the previous word.

 

[Kenith]

I don't see the logic in this. This is the first Smash Bros. game to have two versions, and it's not even finished yet (DLC). It's way too early to tell.

As far as Sakurai saying that the two versions would have the same roster, he does change his mind from time to time. He said the Villager had no moveset potential back in the Brawl days, but here we are.

He never said that. He said that the Villagers' peaceful nature didn't fit the tone of Brawl.
Smash 4 is more cartoony and lighthearted than Brawl and lo and behold, we have Villager now.
Also, you don't see the logic in not creating a roster unbalance by adding a single character to half of the game's versions? Really?

 

[A Distant Demon]

Except 8 player smash wasn't officially confirmed then.

Actually 8 player smash showed up in the proposal for the game.
http://www.sourcegaming.info/2015/07/04/english-smash4-project-proposal-slides/

Still think they probably wouldn't work

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

Its almost time for the update

And almost time for ballot results

And see which of those ballot winners get in for smash bros 4 dlc

 

[Kabutops]

He liked Lucas and Wolf.

Yeah, and?

Not a good excuse.

I'm not making excuses. I'm just trying to illustrate why I don't think Ice Climbers should be totally ruled out yet. I realize it is quite possible that they will not get in Smash 4. Also I don't even care about Ice Climbers so I have no reason to make excuses in the first place.

not to mention again, the 3DS simply can't handle 8 60fps characters with 4 of them using that A.I method, it's literally impossible.

I'd reply to this statement, but i don't like repeating myself.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Actually 8 player smash showed up in the proposal for the game.
http://www.sourcegaming.info/2015/07/04/english-smash4-project-proposal-slides/

Still think they probably wouldn't work

Doesn't really mean much considering how it could have been scrapped

 

[Kabutops]

...............................

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Yeah, and?


I'm not making excuses. I'm just trying to illustrate why I don't think Ice Climbers should be totally ruled out yet. I realize it is quite possible that they will not get in Smash 4. Also I don't even care about Ice Climbers so I have no reason to make excuses in the first place.


I'd reply to this statement, but i don't like repeating myself.

You said Sakurai might try to put time and money on something that may not work because he likes them. Lucas was DLC and Wolf isn't confirmed

I call BS, if you didn't care about them, you wouldn't be arguing against the fact the 3DS can't handle them

Yet you already did repeat yourself a few times so far

 

[Lord-Zero]

Do you guys think Koei Tecmo's relationship with Nintendo with the Hyrule Warriors releases give Ryu Hayabasa a better chance? Just wondering, haven't seen anyone brought it up.

A little bit but I think a Hyrule Warriors character is more likely. It would not only be a Koei Tecmo rep but it'd also double as a Zelda rep and a nice nod to Hyrule Warriors' unexpected success. My vote's on Lana or Volga.

 

[NintenZ]

I only think we're getting Wolf as a veteran tbh.

 

[Wintropy]

I think people, both defenders and critics of Ice Climbers, need to understand something very important about the situation:

Sakurai didn't scrap the Icies due to malice or spite.

He had to scrap them because they presented a technical impossibility.

Sakurai said he tried everything possible to get them to work, but it wasn't feasible. He even tried to change the character's frame rate and switched off gravity.

That we know of, nothing short of changing the very nature of the character will get them to work in either version. The 3DS can't handle eight characters on-screen at a time, the Wii U can't handle 16. In order to be technically possible, the Icies would have to either:

- Be a single entity ("SoPo")
- Have the AI on the partner entity compromised massively
- Have the frame rate on the partner entity compromised massively
- Have both entities share animations without a distinctive AI

Sakurai evidently isn't happy with compromising the integrity of a veteran character, because then it will serve to undermine the very thing that the Icies were chosen for in the first place. He isn't going to have the character be playable in one version and not the other, because not only would it be unfair to fans of Smash 3DS, it'd be financial suicide, since Smash 3DS is massively popular in Japan compared to Smash Wii U. It's impossible either way, since Smash Wii U still can't handle the character. Whether you disagree with that or not is irrelevant, because it just isn't going to happen.

We have to accept that. For better or for worse, that's that.

 

[Morbi]

I think people, both defenders and critics of Ice Climbers, need to understand something very important about the situation:

Sakurai didn't scrap the Icies due to malice or spite.

He had to scrap them because they presented a technical impossibility.

Sakurai said he tried everything possible to get them to work, but it wasn't feasible. He even tried to change the character's frame rate and switched off gravity.

That we know of, nothing short of changing the very nature of the character will get them to work in either version. The 3DS can't handle eight characters on-screen at a time, the Wii U can't handle 16. In order to be technically possible, the Icies would have to either:

- Be a single entity ("SoPo")
- Have the AI on the partner entity compromised massively
- Have the frame rate on the partner entity compromised massively
- Have both entities share animations without a distinctive AI

Sakurai evidently isn't happy with compromising the integrity of a veteran character, because then it will serve to undermine the very thing that the Icies were chosen for in the first place. He isn't going to have the character be playable in one version and not the other, because not only would it be unfair to fans of Smash 3DS, it'd be financial suicide, since Smash 3DS is massively popular in Japan compared to Smash Wii U. It's impossible either way, since Smash Wii U still can't handle the character. Whether you disagree with that or not is irrelevant, because it just isn't going to happen.

We have to accept that. For better or for worse, that's that.

Not necessarily. We do not know if he is "evidently" unhappy with compromising the integrity of a veteran character currently. As far as I am aware, Ice Climbers were never de-confirmed as DLC. The development team could always ban Ice Climbers from 8 player Smash in the same vein as Mii Fighter's online pseudo-ban too. Not that it is likely, per se. However, I do not believe that claiming "it just isn't going to happen" is being objective in the slightest.

 

[Wintropy]

Not necessarily. We do not know if he is "evidently" unhappy with compromising the integrity of a veteran character currently. As far as I am aware, Ice Climbers were never de-confirmed as DLC. The development team could always ban Ice Climbers from 8 player Smash in the same vein as Mii Fighter's online pseudo-ban too. Not that it is likely, per se. However, I do not believe that claiming "it just isn't going to happen" is being objective in the slightest.

I think that's making up criteria to justify a context that, from consideration of due precedent, we have no reason to believe is going to happen.

You're right, it isn't objective. I didn't say it was. I'm saying that, from what we know (and I did say that in my thesis), there's no good reason to think that Sakurai is going to change his mind on this. It's possible that he will, but I don't think that goes with the evidence we've seen.

I stand by what I said. You're misinterpreting my statement when I said "it just isn't going to happen": I mean this magical reality where the Ice Climbers' problems suddenly don't exist isn't physically possible with what we currently know.

Incidentally, banning them in 8-Player Smash still doesn't rectify the 3DS thing. That's the real death knell for the Ice Climbers, in my opinion.

 

[Morbi]

I think that's making up criteria to justify a context that, from consideration of due precedent, we have no reason to believe is going to happen.

You're right, it isn't objective. I didn't say it was. I'm saying that, from what we know (and I did say that in my thesis), there's no good reason to think that Sakurai is going to change his mind on this. It's possible that he will, but I don't think that goes with the evidence we've seen.

I stand by what I said. You're misinterpreting my statement when I said "it just isn't going to happen": I mean this magical reality where the Ice Climbers' problems suddenly don't exist isn't physically possible with what we currently know.

Incidentally, banning them in 8-Player Smash still doesn't rectify the 3DS thing. That's the real death knell for the Ice Climbers, in my opinion.

I agree, but the entire "your opinion is irrelevant because my opinion is better for some arbitrary reason" stance was somewhat off-putting to say the least. From what we know, there is a good reason to believe that Sakurai is going to change his mind on this. It is called the Smash ballot. IF they receive a serviceable amount of votes, I have no doubt that he would perhaps reconsider.
Whether he decides on a nerfed Ice Climbers, or SoPo, or nothing, is irrelevant. "Ice Climbers" are still possible.

So, back to the original point. I disagree with you and I have thoroughly demonstrated why that is the case. If you still believe that they have no chance whatsoever, so be it.

 

[Wintropy]

I agree, but the entire "your opinion is irrelevant because my opinion is better for some arbitrary reason" stance was somewhat off-putting to say the least.

That inference is totally on you, dear.

From what we know, there is a good reason to believe that Sakurai is going to change his mind on this. It is called the Smash ballot. IF they receive a serviceable amount of votes, I have no doubt that he would perhaps reconsider.

I don't think it's a matter of reconsidering. If Sakurai is the man we reckon he is, he's still tinkering behind the scenes to make them work. He knows how popular they are. He doesn't need fan votes to remind him of that.

Whether he decides on a nerfed Ice Climbers, or SoPo, or nothing, is irrelevant. "Ice Climbers" are still possible.

That's exactly what I said.

So, back to the original point. I disagree with you and I have thoroughly demonstrated why that is the case. If you still believe that they have no chance whatsoever, so be it.

Okay.

 

[Morbi]

That inference is totally on you, dear.



I don't think it's a matter of reconsidering. If Sakurai is the man we reckon he is, he's still tinkering behind the scenes to make them work. He knows how popular they are. He doesn't need fan votes to remind him of that.



That's exactly what I said.



Okay.

It's impossible either way, since Smash Wii U still can't handle the character. Whether you disagree with that or not is irrelevant, because it just isn't going to happen.

We have to accept that. For better or for worse, that's that.

I apologize, based on the way you phrased the above sentence(s), that was the impression I perceived. Regardless, I stated that I agreed with you, that is precisely why I restated what you said. It was intentional.

I think, when it comes down to it, there is a lot of precedent that indicates Ice Climbers are not feasible. But on the other hand, there is still reason to believe that they might be included after all. Stranger things have happened.

 

[Wintropy]

I apologize, based on the way you phrased the above sentence(s), that was the impression I perceived. Regardless, I stated that I agreed with you, that is precisely why I restated what you said. It was intentional.

I think, when it comes down to it, there is a lot of precedent that indicates Ice Climbers are not feasible. But on the other hand, there is still reason to believe that they might be included after all. Stranger things have happened.

I agree, it's possible.

But I won't hold my breath.

 

[Morbi]

I agree, it's possible.

But I won't hold my breath.

Indeed. At this point, I am not holding my breath for ANY character. But if I was a die-hard Ice Climber supporter, I would probably keep an oxygen tank in the nearby vicinity.

 

[Wintropy]

Just to clarify, I'd be over the moon if the Icies returned.

I don't care for them personally, but it's a shame to see any beloved veteran cut due to unfortunate circumstances.

 

[Kabutops]

You said Sakurai might try to put time and money on something that may not work because he likes them. Lucas was DLC and Wolf isn't confirmed

Sorry, I just don't see what point you're trying to make here.

I call BS, if you didn't care about them, you wouldn't be arguing against the fact the 3DS can't handle them

I make claims about characters I'm dispassionate about. If someone makes a counter statement that I don't agree with I feel obligated to defend my claim. If you can't fathom such a thing as that then that's your business.

Yet you already did repeat yourself a few times so far

Yes and I'm sick of having to do so. Me saying that I don't like repeating myself is kind of my cue that I don't like engaging in circular debates which is what this discussion is quickly degenerating into.

I say we rap this fruitless discussion up with the following: You & others here think Ice Climbers is impossible to get in due to technical limitations of the 3ds and I disagree.

/discussion

bye

 

[Deleted member]

Only way I can see the Climbers included is if they were completely re-invented with a different two-in-one gimmick that the 3DS CAN handle, such as the way Billy and Mandy work in PTE.

That being said, I don't see Sakurai willing to do that, otherwise it would already have been done and we wouldn't be discussing this.

 

[NintenZ]

I just thought of something. How about a Klanoa costume?

 

[JaidynReiman]

A little bit but I think a Hyrule Warriors character is more likely. It would not only be a Koei Tecmo rep but it'd also double as a Zelda rep and a nice nod to Hyrule Warriors' unexpected success. My vote's on Lana or Volga.

A Hyrule Warriors rep that has appeared in main Zelda games? Sure, I could easily see that happen. An HW exclusive rep? Hell no, it won't happen. If they draw from HW, they'd do it for Impa and give her an HW-based moveset rather than use an HW-exclusive character.

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

I just thought of something. How about a Klanoa costume?

I can honestly see it happen since it would be a consolation price for those who voted for him. They are the same guys who made a Klonoa keychain as DLC for Soul Calibur V.