DK Tactical Discussion: Official "Ask Strong Bad Stuff.. About Stuff" thread

[Scuba Steve]

Personally, I hate fighting Mewtwo. His floatiness and weight make follow ups off of grabs much more difficult than on the rest of his cast, he edgeguards DK hard with his back air and float antics, and combos DK hard with his tail.

 

[POOB]

[

Personally, I hate fighting Mewtwo. His floatiness and weight make follow ups off of grabs much more difficult than on the rest of his cast, he edgeguards DK hard with his back air and float antics, and combos DK hard with his tail.

Mewtwo is just one of those characters that you have to get used to and adapt to cause he's so unique. take advantage of his lightness and go for early kills, and for throws, down throw works really well. Many many follow ups if u can get a read. Also make sure you crouch cancel those tilts, otherwise you will get combod terribly at lower percents. Nair is also a safe and effective way to punish predictable teleports. Lastly, mix up your recovery. Mewtwo destroys a DK with predictable recovery. Just some small tips to keep in mind

 

[G13_Flux]

sorry POOB misread your post. also, on link, i think it might depend on DKs ability to get in. he does have a dash attack with armour that could get straight through boomerangs or arrows. his nair and bair wouldnt be bad for dealing with boomerangs either. CCing is also another potent option. he defintiely doesnt have much to deal with the bombs though. once DK gets in, its game over (for the most part), so its just a matter of how well his options can deal with links projectiles. definitely have little experience in this MU though so its hard to say.

 

[BladeOFLucas]

Hey, Strong Bad, do you have any specific tips for fighting Zelda? I try playing defensively when going aggro doesn't do the trick and I get punished hard.

 

[Scuba Steve]

I'm not Strongbad, but I don't recommend playing defensively against Zelda. Zelda's approach options suck and if you play defensively, she will be more than happy to set up a giant maze of Din's fire, which as a giant monkey, is less than desirable. Stay close enough to her that she is afraid to throw out Din's fire, but far enough away that she can't spam her Nayru's love.

 

[BladeOFLucas]

I get that, I'm asking how, Zelda has decent range and out-prioritizes many of DK's attacks, so staying in that range is easier said than done without allowing her to get far enough to use Din's fire.

 

[BladeOFLucas]

Whoops, this message was formerly a repeat of what I said before. My screen was displaying that it had not posted. Sorry

 

[POOB]

sorry POOB misread your post. also, on link, i think it might depend on DKs ability to get in. he does have a dash attack with armour that could get straight through boomerangs or arrows. his nair and bair wouldnt be bad for dealing with boomerangs either. CCing is also another potent option. he defintiely doesnt have much to deal with the bombs though. once DK gets in, its game over (for the most part), so its just a matter of how well his options can deal with links projectiles. definitely have little experience in this MU though so its hard to say.

No prob, also you're right about this matchup. DK just has to be patient and when he finally gets in, he can combo link very well. Dash attack is great for getting in when its not so overused that it's predictable, and DK has great horizontal aerial speed after a dash so he has no problem getting in if you're patient enough and focus on link's patterns.

Hey, Strong Bad, do you have any specific tips for fighting Zelda? I try playing defensively when going aggro doesn't do the trick and I get punished hard.

I'm not strong bad either, but this is one of my best and most experienced matchups in relation to most DK's. I posted a precise, mini-Zelda guide for DK in the matchup thread and ive heard it helped some people. Just check the spoiler tab under "Zelda" in the DK matchup thread hope it helps

 

[Returnofthemac]

I get that, that's not the issue. Zelda has decent range and out-prioritizes DK on many of his attacks, so staying in that ideal range is difficult without getting too close or too far away from Zelda and not getting punished.

Ok, so first off I'm going to point you in the direction of the match up thread on the boards here which has an excellent guide for Dk vs. Zelda from POOB.
To recap on that post, my own personal opinion is the match up is very based on spacing and baiting out zelda's moves and punishing her for them. Just like an f-smash hungry marth, dash dance just outside of her range and when she commits to something, punish accordingly. That is mainly for neutral though.
Once you get a knock down situation or a grab, in order to convert into the most devastating combos dk can dish out requires you to scare that impulsive roll, punish with what you feel is appropriate. If she is in the air then bait out th fair/bair/ whatever and keep the combo going.
Edit: Whoops sorry POOB my bad

 

[BladeOFLucas]

Thanks, I'll check that out.

 

[Jake The Preacher]

What do you guys think are some good general counterpicks for DK? I most the time do a cargo F throw and can jump into a nair and most the time can get one more nair in, so maybe small stages? Anyone got good advice?

 

[POOB]

Any specific matchups? That would be much easier to answer if you listed some that you have trouble with, otherwise this would prob be a long post lol

 

[Jake The Preacher]

Most specifically, Kirby, Mewtwo, and Chrizard. By the way I love your stuff on Smashing Grounds Poob

 

[Scuba Steve]

Everybody loves watching Poob on Smashing Grounds. Sometimes, I wish Poob could see the chat whenever he gets on stream. That man has a following.

 

[POOB]

Thanks dude.
So what do u find most difficult in those matchups?(i.e. approaching, mewtwo's projectile, edgeguarding, comboing, etc)I might as well take advantage of both of us being online and more specific questions

 

[Jake The Preacher]

A lot of the time it's mostly approaching, I always have quick damage from the nair stuff I mentioned earlier. I can also get a cargo F throw into the punch most the time, but most the time I get locked in either U tilts from Kirby or U airs from Charizard. I've 2 stocked the guys M2 with Fox before so I stick with Fox on that one. Would you say on small stages like green hill or yoshi's melee would be good for quick kills maybe? Or do you think they'd be too neutral to us?

 

[POOB]

First off, against kirby i would avoid dream land and draculas castle, since kirby can survive anything if he doesnt get ko'd off the side. A smaller stage would take away that advantage.A few weeks ago, i lost to a kirby on dream land game 2, and I 3 stocked him game game 3 on FD. I like medium sized stages like smashville, pokemon stadium 2, battlefield, and also FD. Its easier to space out kirby on those stages, use your superior range and running speed to bait and punish, similar to how fox plays(campy yet approaching often at the same time)
Small stages are ok too, but that makes it easier for kirby to kill with an aerial, which is why i like medium-large ones except dream and draculas
Against charizard, I like the same 4 stages listed above, except i wouldnt mind DL and dracs because its easier to land kill moves on zard.
green hill zone is also good vs zard, its like a mini FD in some ways which is good for DK in that matchup. I dont like platforms against charizard because he can air camp and hit u through platform with nair

 

[Jake The Preacher]

I like it, thanks Poob. And what do you think are big DO NOT's for those MU's?

 

[POOB]

I like it, thanks Poob. And what do you think are big DO NOT's for those MU's?

Dont recover low vs kirby, you will get down aired and die. Lol.
Also don't float around In kirbys space by jumping around and stuff, cause kirby is is good in the air thats like home court advantage if you are in the air too. Instead, for spacing/baiting just dash dance, WD, and short hop aerials and the like.
Im not sure why you are having a hard time vs charizard, there is a great zard at my weeklies ( his tag is "JOE!")and i find it to be in DK's favor. Back air edgeguards charizard very well and of course, he is combo food. Just out space him and you should be fine.
Fun fact: DONT DI charizards up throw lol. It already sends you toward a corner of the screen

 

[Jake The Preacher]

Got it, I'll work on it. I think that's still because I'm working on reads and baiting at some tech skill sort of things. Still developing as a more professional play sort of things. Hopefully soon I'll have some videos for you to critique

 

[POOB]

I need to get better at fundamentals myself, the thing I mostly improved since attending smashing grounds is neutral game and edgeguarding, i still have a lot of improvement to do though. Honestly my combo game helps compensate for my lack of strong fundamental lol. Work at it though and youll be amazed how quickly you can improve neutral game

 

[Jake The Preacher]

I'm not trying to sound jerkish when I say this, just trying my best to help without offending, but I think you Fair a little much. A good few opportunities I've seen you shoot for the Fair I knew you could have hit with a Nair. But I feel certain if you saw me play that you'd shoot back saying I Nair too much, by the way I definitely get the stale moves bonus with it, but that's just me and how I learned to play DK. I'm trying to Fair more myself since seeing how well it works for you

 

[POOB]

I'm not trying to sound jerkish when I say this, just trying my best to help without offending, but I think you Fair a little much. A good few opportunities I've seen you shoot for the Fair I knew you could have hit with a Nair. But I feel certain if you saw me play that you'd shoot back saying I Nair too much, by the way I definitely get the stale moves bonus with it, but that's just me and how I learned to play DK. I'm trying to Fair more myself since seeing how well it works for you

I definitely fair too much,I have to work on that. Thanks for saying that and bringing it to my attention, I sometimes don't realize how much I fair.

 

[Jake The Preacher]

I'm sure we all have baaaaad habits, like rolling. But luckily I've quit that pretty easily. I'm sure the more that you work at it the less of the habit you'll do, that's what it's been like for me

 

[Returnofthemac]

I know you barely play DK anymore, but I still consider you as the most cerebral DK player. That being said I have been trying to develop a game theory for DK and after reading your guide I have become proficient with DK. Where I lack with DK is in neutral. What kind of mindset should I be in when in neutral? Is there any resources that could help me understand DK's neutral game better? My staggered hit game is good as well as my combo game but without winning neutral those are almost useless. Mastering DK's neutral is the barrier preventing me from breaking through. I have watched countless videos of you and you make neutral look easy. Are there any pieces of advice you could give?

 

[Austin_Le]

Hey, I'm new here and to the game in general but love the pace compared to Brawl. Was wondering what you guys think are DK's best and worst 3 MUs are.

 

[Fortune]

I don't know about best, but the worst I've experienced so far was playing against a campy mario.

 

[POOB]

My top 3 DK matchups are probably Bowser, Ganon, and Roy(lmao @ Spralwers )
Worst 3 matchups are probably lucas, Zss, and ivysaur and diddy is tough as well

 

[Strong Badam]

I know you barely play DK anymore, but I still consider you as the most cerebral DK player. That being said I have been trying to develop a game theory for DK and after reading your guide I have become proficient with DK. Where I lack with DK is in neutral. What kind of mindset should I be in when in neutral? Is there any resources that could help me understand DK's neutral game better? My staggered hit game is good as well as my combo game but without winning neutral those are almost useless. Mastering DK's neutral is the barrier preventing me from breaking through. I have watched countless videos of you and you make neutral look easy. Are there any pieces of advice you could give?

Neutral game is very hard with any character and especially with a character as poor at approaching as DK. It's a constant struggle for stage positioning, and spacing moves like Dtilt/Bair to keep people honest. Neutral game comes with a lot of experience against a variety of playstyles. The main thing to keep in mind is patience. Even if you are at a deficit in stocks or percent and "need to approach," that doesn't mean you need to approach now. Since Melee/PM's timer is fairly long, you can still poke and prod and wait until you get a really good bite before you go in. You need to dissect the neutral game into various parts and focus on what things you can accomplish in order to put your opponent into situations where you are at an advantage in neutral. Hitting your opponent isn't even necessary to leave them staggered if you force them to roll back or DD away with your presence. Neutral game is so complex, I could write a book on it... too bad I never will lmao

 

[Spralwers]

My top 3 DK matchups are probably Bowser, Ganon, and Roy(lmao @ Spralwers )
Worst 3 matchups are probably lucas, Zss, and ivysaur and diddy is tough as well

I feel like this is actually the best opportunity I could ever have to train those two characters of mine (Ganon and Roy) and get them super super solid.

 

[POOB]

I feel like this is actually the best opportunity I could ever have to train those two characters of mine (Ganon and Roy) and get them super super solid.

Yeah that's one of the reasons ive only played DK in tourney despite all the links, ivysaurs, NZA's ness, Spaz's Lucas, and Numerics' Zss lol. All those bad matchups are great training

 

[Jake The Preacher]

Yeah that's one of the reasons ive only played DK in tourney despite all the links, ivysaurs, NZA's ness, Spaz's Lucas, and Numerics' Zss lol. All those bad matchups are great training

I like this attitude

 

[BladeOFLucas]

Funny, Ganon and Roy are two characters I have been working hard on, and I never thought to practice against DK, thanks.

 

[Jake The Preacher]

How can you not love Ganondorf? He hits so hard and it's so funny to watch my friends freak out over getting up to 70% after 3 hits

 

[BladeOFLucas]

Why does DK have the tactical advantage over G-dorf? Is that a universal mu advantage for most players?

 

[Jake The Preacher]

This is the entirely wrong thread but I hope no one gets mad. Since you're a Gdorf player, can you tell me if you think Gdorf against Charizard or Kirby is good for him?

 

[BladeOFLucas]

Dude, if you want, we can take that conversation to a Ganon mu thread. Let me know. I can tell you I don't have much experience against Kirby, but in my experience Charizard is okay to handle.

 

[Jake The Preacher]

Let's do it

 

[KMAL]

I recently starting playing as DK and i have to say im enjoying him so much. But i'm having a bit of a hard time making combos and such. I guess playing as Falco all them time is a a reason why. I was reading about his dash-grab techniques and I think I have it down. But I really would like to improve my DK because I think I can go far with him. So if anyone could give me some pointers I would really appreciate it.

 

[Fortune]

What do you guys think of the DeDeDe matchup?