Disguiser Test Day 2 lylo!

[DGOmni]

I'm not tense, I'm simply reacting naturally to you trying to set me up via misrepresentation.

i'm not trying to set you up; you did that for us by contradicting yourself in a single post. finding your contradiction suspicious i questioned you on it. i have not misrepresented you in the least bit.

How can you claim to not have said I was scummy when you said "MAJOR FOS: FROZEN"? Last time I checked, that was the next most explicit way to express that you fell someone is being scummy other than a vote.

your contradiction was extremely suspicious. however i never said it was scummy and asked you to explain your meaning followed by:

i have a feeling u didnt think that one all the way through

players can make contradictions as town and as scum. this is why i asked you:

what exactly are you implying and tell us what your reasoning is, frozen.

your contradiction was huge and suspicious. i followed up with an attempt to understand where your contradiction originated to determine whether i believe the source was scummy or town.

I'll admit that saying "disguised" was a poor choice of words. I meant to say that it was simply scummy but for some reason I automatically associated that type of inconsistent play with being disguised despite the unorthodox situation that occurred to more or less clear you of that accusation.

extremely poor choice of words.

i'm interested in your comment "more or less". i am 100% cleared in the fact that i am who i say i am. i have made it very clear that what we have been confirming up to this point is whether or not someone wasn't who they said they were. what exactly is unorthodox about the situation, frozen? is it not clean, cut, and dry or do you think there is still room for ambiguity in my identity at this point?

Deliberately acting inconsistent to set traps and trying to ride high on your unorthodox clearing simply makes you look scummy, whether or not you are clear of being disguised. It's as if you're trying to implicitly associate your non-disguised status with full out innocence in order to justify your shady means of procuring a target. Trying to ride on virtue by association has scum written all over it.

oh grandma, what a huge amount of wifom you have. let's see if i can follow your thought process.

"deliberately acting inconsistent to set traps"
or to start up conversation and stir debate. catching one of these "traps" doesn't make a person auto-scum. the main point is that it allows someone to snag onto it and dive into their mind of reasoning. in your case, you snagged onto this "trap" with a complete lack of reasoning behind it implying that i may be disguised when i have already been cleared of that theory.

"and trying to ride high on your unorthodox clearing simply makes you look scummy"
i've already asked you, but what exactly is unorthodox of my clearing process? if attempting to meta this game and find a quicker way to end it is scummy than i find it strange that you ignored this comment:

So we know he didn't disguise anyone except frozen, cuz we all posted this evening and he hasn't even been online. This disguiser mechanic is too easily meta'd.

"whether or not you are clear of being disguised."
there you go again. how is there anyway that i can be disguised when i cleared myself in front of marshy and mac AND you showed that i was clear when i posted on my main account. yet for some reason you continue to throw out these statements in an attempt to make people feel uncertain about my identity? what exactly is your MO, frozen?

"It's as if you're trying to implicitly associate your non-disguised status with full out innocence in order to justify your shady means of procuring a target. Trying to ride on virtue by association has scum written all over it."
no, i am directly associating myself with a non-disguised status. there's nothing indirect about it. no where did i say that clearing a person's identity gives them full innocence. actually, this is what i said:

so what im saying is that the next step is to confirm Mentos and Frozenflame. if they are both clear we play the day like normal.

lol @ shady means. lol @ ride on virtue.

Frozen, everything that I have said about you at this point is been based on direct actions that you have made and direct statements that followed. No argument that I have brought against you has attempted to "imply" or "misrepresent" alterior motives. On contrary, I have asked you to clarify your actions in order to prevent any kind of misrepresentation on your part.

On the other hand, your argument towards me is pure WIFOM. My actions make a statement that I am attempting to meta this game and win. You, however, have looked into my actions and derived from some sort of notion that this is some sort of master plan to clear myself by pretty much being "too helpful". Everything I've brought to the table (activity, ideas to proceed, etc.) has been helpful for town whereas everything you have brought to the table (inactivity until pressured, no ideas, massive WIFOM, contradictions, etc.) have been unhelpful.

Your following response determines whether or not I will place a vote on you. The only thing holding me back is because I have soft feeling this entire argument between the two of us may be TvT. Also, in regards to content, I don't have too much read on Mentos nor Mac.

@Mentos: I believe you're the last person that needs to confirm their identity. Please do so.

@Everyone: What is your take on me vs. Frozen at this point?

 

[FrozenFlameDG]

Once again you claim to have never said I was scummy. Get off your ****ing high horse. If you MAJOR FOS anyone, you're saying that they are scummy regardless of how much you try to dance around the semantics of it. You aren't fooling me or anyone else.

The fact that you have absolutely no idea what I mean by the unorthodox situation that has cleared you of being disguised is deeply troubling. The fact that you came in this thread and posted on your normal account is the unorthodox situation. That type of action is completely against the intent of the game and thus, and unorthodox method of disguise clearing.

Nothing that I have said is WIFOM and the fact that you think so shows me you've a gross misunderstanding of what WIFOM actually means. WIFOM is deriving suspicion from speculation of how "scum would act" or what "scum would say" in a certain situation. I've done nothing of the sort. I've simply pointed out what parts of your methods seem underhanded and devious, and thus, scummy. You seem to believe that my analysis of what seem to been implicit appeals to virtue and thus veracity in your claims is entirely WIFOM. Not the case. There is no false dilemma present. I've simply told you what I understand to be your method of rhetoric here. It has nothing to do with a set of choices a scum player may or may not make. It's simply a stylistic analysis of the whys behind your content. Not WIFOM.

You're far to stuck on taking things at face value. You're heralding yourself as a pro-town idol by virtue of having actively pursued an obvious metagaming strategy. Sorry to burst you bubble, but a little more mafia experiance would have taught you that mafiats are often the first to take the initiative on employing strategies as obvious as the ones we're using now. If such a useful strat is likely to be developed and employed, it is not unreasonable to assume a mafiat would want to claim responsibility for its use in an attempt to appear more pro-town. If the strategy were more complicated, or less obvious, only then would it be unlikely for a mafiat to go out of his way to introduce it to a town that likely would never have employed it in the first place.

To be quite honest, you're playing yourself up much more than you even remotely deserve. You may be right about being cleared of being disguised, but that doesn't rule out the possibility that you're simply the mafiat.

I still can't decide if this is TvT as well. You're being far too overbearing in trying to establish yourself is entirely benevolent for my tastes.

 

[DGOmni]

i think u skimmed what i said since i responded to a lot of what's in your new post. either that or i just simply disagree with a lot of what you're saying. kinda confused about the whole high horse and overbearing thing but w/e. not to be rude but these things you're saying have already been addressed. i'll just skim through it shortly

1.) major FOS was the huge contradiction of saying i was cleared than suggesting i may be disguised. made no sense whatsoever and it was highly suspicious however i inquired more to find our its source to derive if it was scummy or dumb townie.

2.) yes, me and mentos posting in the thread was unorthodox but if u noticed we discussed a way of clearing ourselves before that whole fiasco. myself along with marshy and mac cleared ourselves in that manner

3.) i disagree that your last paragraph wasn't wifom. if anything, it's a fallacy. it's like saying someone is playing too townie which im sure you're aware of is a horrible argument

4.) ok. so mafias come up with strategies. so does town. i've never declared my undying township; just wanted to clear everyone on identity until you started contradicting yourself

5.) im not playing myself up at all. i am right about being cleared of being disguised and i have continued to say that it doesn't clear me of being mafia. you clearly didnt read my last post thoroughly

lots of issues that i mentioned in my previous post that you're avoiding, choosing not to answer, or didn't see because you were skimming

you should also calm down. you're coming off as a bit hostile and stressed. why so serious

until you actually take the time to fully address my previous post

Vote: FrozenFlame

gonna wait for everyone else to evaluate the situation

 

[DGOmni]

unvote

just realized it was 3 to lynch. rather not give anyone a reason to hammer with so much time left in the day

 

[FrozenFlameDG]

I definitely didn't omit anything. Just because I'm not going quote box by quote box doesn't mean that I'm skimming or leaving clash out of this debate.

I think debate over your FOS is exhausted. I understand WHY you FOS'd be, but the point remains that FOSing someone indicates you believe someone to be scummy. Hence FINGER OF SUSPICION. You denied that you thought I was scummy AFTER FOSing me. THAT is also a contradiction. But whatever, if you can't understand that then there's no point continuing to talk about it.

The way you guys cleared each other, though a strong indicator of not being disguised, was not 100% beyond any possible doubt legit from my perspective. Having you guys come in on your normal accounts and post made you guys 100% clear. That's why it was unorthodox.

You disagree that it wasn't WIFOM, yet you can't explain how it IS WIFOM. I gave you a thourough explanation as to how different my analysis is from WIFOM. Furthermore, I'm not arguing that you're being too townie. I was arguing that your rhetoric came off to me as someone who is trying to act as though there is no reason to doubt them. It really is nothing more that rhetorical analysis. You argued as if you were a cleared town authority. I never said anything about how town I thought you actually were acting, I simply stated that the way you presented yourself, it was as if you assumed you had been completely cleared of any possibility of being scum and were speaking from that public perspective. The fact that that attitude is not warranted in the given situation made me think you were trying to ride your partial clear as an entire clear, couple with your claim to townieness based on coming up with your disguiser clear plan, which I'll expand on next.

Yes, both factions can come up with ideas. My point was, it is quite typical of scum to enact obvious pro-town plans, and then herald themselves as having done the town great justice by doing so. Scum are often quick to gain the town's favor via such easy modes of operation. It's basically a "hey, heres an easy way to do something obviously protown. As scum, I should beat the townies to it and take credit, since that'll help me build credibilty."

Basically, using the fact that you employed an obvious clear strategy as an argument for your townness actually comes off as more scummy than townie, since it seems like you're trying to milk your achievement for more than it's worth.

That's basically the entirety of my suspicions of you. This is getting ******** though, I can definitely see this being TvT and everyone else just being quiet only emboldens that suspicion. Scum could easily just be riding this TvT wave.

So other people, whats up?

 

[DGOmni]

Vote: Mentosman

 

[Handorin]

Votecount:
Frozen: Marshy (1)
Mentos: Omni (1)

With 5 alive, it takes 3 to lynch.

 

[FrozenFlameDG]

Yo guys, I know y'all are lurkin' and everythin', and I'm real happy for ya, but FF right here was one of the greatest inactives of all time! ALL TIME!

Vote: Mentos

Like in all seriousness, lets get this **** goin' now.

 

[DG Mac]

vote: mentos

i agree. mentos can die.

 

[DGOmni]

whoa @ Mac hammering mentos before confirming him

whats that about

 

[DGOmni]

remember to RECONFIRM tomorrow if someone gets taken over

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

holy ****, wtf mac?!

Yeah, we'll be doing disguise checks again tomorrow obviously. Good call. Cya'll then hopefully.

 

[DGOmni]

btw, nice unorthodox confirm there, frozen. =D

lol

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

fml lol. Oh well, doesn't matter at this point considering the day is over.

 

[Omni]

actually, i completely forgot that i even pointed this out

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=8723794&postcount=73

mentos confirmed himself. my debate with frozen completely stirred me away from this post.

which means everyone WAS accounted for as confirmed and we could have gone scumhunting as normal.

not glad that mac hammered since that pretty much removes one of our mislynches.

oh well.

 

[-Osseous-]

did we win?

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

We'll find out when Hando posts the end of day post.

 

[Handorin]

The crowd argues, and finally come up with a decision.
"I thought I heard a wrapper in the recording! It must have been mentosman."
"It totally wasn't me, I don't even have any on me"
Mentos slowly backs away, but the crowd starts to close in on him.
Mentos backs into a mirror, and it crashes down onto him. There is no movement.
And the intercom comes back on,
"Oh come on guys. You can do better than that, but you can't catch me. I'm the Ginger Bread Man!"

Mentosman, the vanilla townie, has been lynched.

Night 1 starts. Send in night actions.

 

[Handorin]

Without warning, a large flour counterweight falls down and engulfs the crowd.
When the haze clears, one person is missing.
The intercom comes back on
"And another one bites the dust, and the another one bites the dust...."
And it fades into the distance.

Macman, the vanilla townie, has disappeared.

Day 2, the final day, is here.
It takes 2/3 to lynch.

 

[DGOmni]

i dont think disguiser would be stupid enough to disguise themselves but it would probably be best to confirm ourselves again just in case

marshy - what did i ask u to do for me the other day

i also find it odd that Macman was killed. it means Mac either disguised or (most likely) was killed. still, after his odd hammer lynch Yesterday, im surprised scum wouldnt keep him alive since he would easily get the most attention Today. it does end up becoming mixed WIFOM, but i can't distinguish which of you two would choose that route (obviously implying that i am town).

this should be interesting.

 

[-Osseous-]

actually i think this will be uninteresting

i mean what's the point of a disguiser test if he doesn't have to disguise? plus this still doesn't solve the private user groups problem unless hando wants every player in his real game to create an alt account

omni you asked me to overlook your play in a mafia game

omni who was the 3rd person to post in my birthday topic?

frozen have you saved any of our chatlogs? post one if so. can't think of a question that wouldn't be obvious to macman

 

[DGOmni]

omni who was the 3rd person to post in my birthday topic?

what birthday topic?

 

[-Osseous-]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=255340

 

[DGOmni]

Oh, EE.

I'unno how to confirm FF again, but I doubt Disguiser disguised.

 

[-Osseous-]

request to end game

handos not using disguiser in his upcoming game

 

[Handorin]

Might as well "officially" end this.

Macman was the guiser, he disguised as FF last night.

I think this role could work with a few more modifications, but I don't want to deal with it.

 

[#HBC | Mac]

yah. optimal pplay wud have been not to disguise and it wud just end up being a random boring unfun game and would also defeat the purpose of this test. I would have lost since any one of you could have simply imed FF and talked to him about stuff unrelated to the game and than asked him in hear to clear his name. so yah

no meta rule wud have to be implemented and strictly enforced

but posting on different accs was a hassle and kind of annoying to do. To easy to just slip up and post on our main accs.