ChikoLad
Purple Boi
- Joined
- Jan 11, 2014
- Messages
- 23,084
This is something that has been on my mind for a while now, but something was announced for another game I play today which made me consider the concept a little more seriously.
So before discussing how this idea could be applied to Smash, let me explain the general concept and how it works in other games.
A character rework is essentially when developers of a game, usually a multiplayer game with competitive aspects, take a character in that game and make a bunch of changes to them that are beyond just a simple "increase the damage output here, tone down the range of that hitbox there, also make this move come out three frames faster, etc". The exact amount of changes to when you stop considering it a simple balance update and more of a character rework is somewhat debatable and people usually have slightly different answers to that question, but a general consensus is that most character reworks involve significant property changes like adding new effects to moves or removing effects, completely scrapping old moves with new ones, and maybe even new mechanics and animations. Of course it's common to see this practice done between different installments of games within the same series, but the practice has been moving towards something that just happens in an update, despite being pretty drastic.
To give an example of a game using this concept, I'll bring up Dissidia Final Fantasy Arcade/Dissidia Final Fantasy NT. There are others like Overwatch but I feel Dissidia is more comparable to Smash Bros. However, I'll spoiler this, as to fully explain this and illustrate it, I need to go a little deep. If you don't have an understanding of how a character rework can be handled though, I would recommend reading.
SO, with all of THAT out of the way - how does this apply to Smash?
Well to put it simply, a common sentiment I've seen expressed in the community is the idea that many characters in Smash, particularly those introduced in the original game for the Nintendo 64, feel....outdated. Much like what happened with the launch roster in Dissidia Arcade, many of the older Smash characters are just overly simplistic in their archetyping and can struggle to deal with the increasingly complex mechanics of the newer characters. And some of the newer characters have mechanics so wild that they are difficult to balance, where they may end up overpowered or underpowered over the course of patches/transitions between games as the Smash team struggles to balance these more quirky mechanics.
This sentiment, in combination with what I see other games doing, makes me think - why don't they just rework characters in Smash in an update? Why wait five years for a new game to come out when they could make some more major changes to some of these characters that need it in an update, like giving them an entirely new move in place of a move that's unanimously garbage, or in place of moves that are only useful in a specific kind of game mode?
The character I've especially seen a lot of people say is in need of a rework is Kirby. They've been using the same general moveset for him since Melee and haven't changed him much, and in Ultimate in particular, he is suffering for it since the game is saturated with sword characters who outrange, outspeed, and overpower him with ease. Most of his moves are extremely basic punches and kicks when he has so many more abilities he could be using which would not only give his kit more utility, but also better represent the character's storied history. The common excuse we hear is that Kirby is a beginner character that should serve to teach new players the fundamentals of the game, but Kirby actually fails in this regard because his moveset is just so basic. Other characters like Mario, Lucario, and Cloud serve this role far better because they have more range than Kirby which makes it easier for a new player to actually hit things and they have things like projectiles, reflectors, or counters, which are things players should learn about early on as so many characters have them. In my opinion, I think Kirby could be reworked to not only make him better in competitive play, but also to make the character more exciting again and to also better serve the role of beginner character that serves to teach you some of the fundamental mechanics of the game. They have so much to work with too and there is limitless potential for how they could approach it. I think many people would be excited to see it, just like how many Dissidia players are excited to see Y'shtola get reworked so heavily since it means it's basically a new character we can learn.
That's just my take though. I'm curious to see what other people think, and in particular, if you feel your favourite characters could use a rework. The concept of character reworks is something the Smash community has taken to be a "wait for the next installment" thing but Ultimate is likely gonna be our Smash game for non-Melee/PM players for a very long time, and especially for casual players, so I think we should consider expressing the idea of character reworks within this game's update cycle rather than waiting for a new game.
So before discussing how this idea could be applied to Smash, let me explain the general concept and how it works in other games.
A character rework is essentially when developers of a game, usually a multiplayer game with competitive aspects, take a character in that game and make a bunch of changes to them that are beyond just a simple "increase the damage output here, tone down the range of that hitbox there, also make this move come out three frames faster, etc". The exact amount of changes to when you stop considering it a simple balance update and more of a character rework is somewhat debatable and people usually have slightly different answers to that question, but a general consensus is that most character reworks involve significant property changes like adding new effects to moves or removing effects, completely scrapping old moves with new ones, and maybe even new mechanics and animations. Of course it's common to see this practice done between different installments of games within the same series, but the practice has been moving towards something that just happens in an update, despite being pretty drastic.
To give an example of a game using this concept, I'll bring up Dissidia Final Fantasy Arcade/Dissidia Final Fantasy NT. There are others like Overwatch but I feel Dissidia is more comparable to Smash Bros. However, I'll spoiler this, as to fully explain this and illustrate it, I need to go a little deep. If you don't have an understanding of how a character rework can be handled though, I would recommend reading.
Dissidia Final Fantasy Arcade was released in Japanese arcades in 2015 and a PS4 version known as Dissidia Final Fantasy NT was released in January 2018. The arcade version is the second most popular competitive arcade game in Japan, so it's a pretty big deal in Japan and there are many tournaments for the game. It's a 3v3, 6-player, 3D arena fighting game where the main objective is to KO members of your opponents team three times, so basically the first team to three points wins. While 1v1 is possible in the console version, the game is frankly not designed around that from a competitive standpoint and the game is balanced around team-based gameplay. However, it is generally appropriately balanced around that concept with different characters being designed to fit different roles, and it has a lot of parallels with fighting games. While it has elements of a MOBA game, the game is generally considered more of a fighting game and is marketed as such. Even pro Smash Bros players, such as ZeRo himself, played the game (I don't know if they still do, I don't follow players like that).
Dissidia Arcade launched with 14 characters - one hero from Final Fantasy I to Final Fantasy XIV. However, by the time the PS4 version of Dissidia launched, the Arcade version added many new characters through updates, so the console version launched with a bunch more characters, and they continue to add more characters to both versions. The developers have said they are aiming to have a roster of at least 50 characters. Currently the game has 33 playable characters. However, since a lot of the newer characters introduced after the original 14 have gotten more complex and some of them have some incredibly strong niches they fill, the original 14 characters started to look a little basic by comparison, or if not that, they were technically complex and interesting characters, but the newer characters have sort of powercrept most of them and they started to struggle to keep up with the meta as the newer characters just did what they did but better or had more they could do. So Koei Tecmo (they develop the game, Square Enix is just a publisher on this one) have started pushing out these character reworks over the past year that aim to bring the original 14 fighters up to the standard of the newer ones, since the game has changed a lot since the original version of the game. While the original characters have seen nerfs and buffs in every other update in the past, it ultimately wasn't enough to keep them up to speed, and in one or two cases, there were launch characters that were just too overpowered even with all of the new competition, so they needed a rework to make them less oppressive to deal with.
Now they have been doing these reworks for a while and the results have varied. Some characters like Lightning (FFXIII) barely feel much different after her "rework" and her rework felt more akin to a standard balance update (she is one of the launch characters that stayed relevant so honestly she didn't need to be reworked heavily anyway). However, other characters like Warrior of Light (FFI) and Firion (FFII), received pretty significant reworks that gave them new mechanics and even one or two new moves to replace some old ones that weren't that effective.
But it was last night that the latest and one of the last reworks was revealed, for Y'shtola (FFXIV). And, well...it's insane. She is quite literally a completely different character now. To the point where if they really wanted to, they could have used this new moveset, applied it to another magic-based Final Fantasy character not already in the game, and sold it as DLC in the Season Pass. But instead, they are giving it to us by giving it to an old character in a free update. And to be clear, this is not a case where we will have two Y'shtolas on the roster like Mario and Dr. Mario. The old version is getting completely overwritten by the new version and replaces it entirely.
I won't go into great detail on the changes since I've had to spend enough time talking about Dissidia as an example for my Smash Bros-centric point as is, and there are so many drastic changes that I'd spend ages just trying to detail them. But for a brief primer:
-Most of her moves now have completely different animations, both in terms of Y'shtola's posing and the look of the spells she shoots. Even her running animation has been completely changed. Some moves are removed entirely and she has new ones instead.
-Most of her moves used to have a debuff attached to them which made her play a debuffing role on the team. Most of these debuffs have been completely removed, meaning she no longer plays that role.
-She has gained the ability to stance change. This means she can cycle between two different movesets inspired by two different classes from FFXIV - Conjurer and Thaumaturge. The original version of Y'shtola in Dissidia was mostly based on the Conjurer class with a couple of moves taken from other classes, but it mostly lent her towards a defensive and support oriented role. She did not have this stance change mechanic in any capacity. However, the Thaumaturge stance gives her a moveset that focuses on offesnive pressure, while the Conjurer moveset retains a similar role to the old one. However, even some of the Conjurer spells have new animations and all of them have very different effects and applications now.
-Two of her HP moves (basically finishers) are completely different moves now, different animations, names, and effects, etc. The remaining two that have similar animations to before work very differently now too.
-Her old Personal EX Skill (basically a Final Smash) has been changed and is tied to the Conjurer Stance. She also now has brand new second Personal EX Skill, tied to the Thaumaturge Stance.
That's just a basic primer, I haven't even gone into all of the less obvious changes. But yeah, she's a completely different character. I was working on a guide for this character in the past that I never got around to finishing, but it's honestly a good thing I didn't finish it because literally nothing of what I wrote is relevant anymore. I main the character now (and have since the Closed Beta way back in September last year), but once the update with this rework drops, I will have to re-learn her from scratch. None of my experience carries over as she really is that different with the rework.
If you are interested in seeing it for yourself (if you play Dissidia yourself, I would recommend it), here's a video that details many of the changes. It's interesting to look at regardless as I honestly think this is one of the most drastic reworks I've seen to a character in a competitive game period.
Dissidia Arcade launched with 14 characters - one hero from Final Fantasy I to Final Fantasy XIV. However, by the time the PS4 version of Dissidia launched, the Arcade version added many new characters through updates, so the console version launched with a bunch more characters, and they continue to add more characters to both versions. The developers have said they are aiming to have a roster of at least 50 characters. Currently the game has 33 playable characters. However, since a lot of the newer characters introduced after the original 14 have gotten more complex and some of them have some incredibly strong niches they fill, the original 14 characters started to look a little basic by comparison, or if not that, they were technically complex and interesting characters, but the newer characters have sort of powercrept most of them and they started to struggle to keep up with the meta as the newer characters just did what they did but better or had more they could do. So Koei Tecmo (they develop the game, Square Enix is just a publisher on this one) have started pushing out these character reworks over the past year that aim to bring the original 14 fighters up to the standard of the newer ones, since the game has changed a lot since the original version of the game. While the original characters have seen nerfs and buffs in every other update in the past, it ultimately wasn't enough to keep them up to speed, and in one or two cases, there were launch characters that were just too overpowered even with all of the new competition, so they needed a rework to make them less oppressive to deal with.
Now they have been doing these reworks for a while and the results have varied. Some characters like Lightning (FFXIII) barely feel much different after her "rework" and her rework felt more akin to a standard balance update (she is one of the launch characters that stayed relevant so honestly she didn't need to be reworked heavily anyway). However, other characters like Warrior of Light (FFI) and Firion (FFII), received pretty significant reworks that gave them new mechanics and even one or two new moves to replace some old ones that weren't that effective.
But it was last night that the latest and one of the last reworks was revealed, for Y'shtola (FFXIV). And, well...it's insane. She is quite literally a completely different character now. To the point where if they really wanted to, they could have used this new moveset, applied it to another magic-based Final Fantasy character not already in the game, and sold it as DLC in the Season Pass. But instead, they are giving it to us by giving it to an old character in a free update. And to be clear, this is not a case where we will have two Y'shtolas on the roster like Mario and Dr. Mario. The old version is getting completely overwritten by the new version and replaces it entirely.
I won't go into great detail on the changes since I've had to spend enough time talking about Dissidia as an example for my Smash Bros-centric point as is, and there are so many drastic changes that I'd spend ages just trying to detail them. But for a brief primer:
-Most of her moves now have completely different animations, both in terms of Y'shtola's posing and the look of the spells she shoots. Even her running animation has been completely changed. Some moves are removed entirely and she has new ones instead.
-Most of her moves used to have a debuff attached to them which made her play a debuffing role on the team. Most of these debuffs have been completely removed, meaning she no longer plays that role.
-She has gained the ability to stance change. This means she can cycle between two different movesets inspired by two different classes from FFXIV - Conjurer and Thaumaturge. The original version of Y'shtola in Dissidia was mostly based on the Conjurer class with a couple of moves taken from other classes, but it mostly lent her towards a defensive and support oriented role. She did not have this stance change mechanic in any capacity. However, the Thaumaturge stance gives her a moveset that focuses on offesnive pressure, while the Conjurer moveset retains a similar role to the old one. However, even some of the Conjurer spells have new animations and all of them have very different effects and applications now.
-Two of her HP moves (basically finishers) are completely different moves now, different animations, names, and effects, etc. The remaining two that have similar animations to before work very differently now too.
-Her old Personal EX Skill (basically a Final Smash) has been changed and is tied to the Conjurer Stance. She also now has brand new second Personal EX Skill, tied to the Thaumaturge Stance.
That's just a basic primer, I haven't even gone into all of the less obvious changes. But yeah, she's a completely different character. I was working on a guide for this character in the past that I never got around to finishing, but it's honestly a good thing I didn't finish it because literally nothing of what I wrote is relevant anymore. I main the character now (and have since the Closed Beta way back in September last year), but once the update with this rework drops, I will have to re-learn her from scratch. None of my experience carries over as she really is that different with the rework.
If you are interested in seeing it for yourself (if you play Dissidia yourself, I would recommend it), here's a video that details many of the changes. It's interesting to look at regardless as I honestly think this is one of the most drastic reworks I've seen to a character in a competitive game period.
SO, with all of THAT out of the way - how does this apply to Smash?
Well to put it simply, a common sentiment I've seen expressed in the community is the idea that many characters in Smash, particularly those introduced in the original game for the Nintendo 64, feel....outdated. Much like what happened with the launch roster in Dissidia Arcade, many of the older Smash characters are just overly simplistic in their archetyping and can struggle to deal with the increasingly complex mechanics of the newer characters. And some of the newer characters have mechanics so wild that they are difficult to balance, where they may end up overpowered or underpowered over the course of patches/transitions between games as the Smash team struggles to balance these more quirky mechanics.
This sentiment, in combination with what I see other games doing, makes me think - why don't they just rework characters in Smash in an update? Why wait five years for a new game to come out when they could make some more major changes to some of these characters that need it in an update, like giving them an entirely new move in place of a move that's unanimously garbage, or in place of moves that are only useful in a specific kind of game mode?
The character I've especially seen a lot of people say is in need of a rework is Kirby. They've been using the same general moveset for him since Melee and haven't changed him much, and in Ultimate in particular, he is suffering for it since the game is saturated with sword characters who outrange, outspeed, and overpower him with ease. Most of his moves are extremely basic punches and kicks when he has so many more abilities he could be using which would not only give his kit more utility, but also better represent the character's storied history. The common excuse we hear is that Kirby is a beginner character that should serve to teach new players the fundamentals of the game, but Kirby actually fails in this regard because his moveset is just so basic. Other characters like Mario, Lucario, and Cloud serve this role far better because they have more range than Kirby which makes it easier for a new player to actually hit things and they have things like projectiles, reflectors, or counters, which are things players should learn about early on as so many characters have them. In my opinion, I think Kirby could be reworked to not only make him better in competitive play, but also to make the character more exciting again and to also better serve the role of beginner character that serves to teach you some of the fundamental mechanics of the game. They have so much to work with too and there is limitless potential for how they could approach it. I think many people would be excited to see it, just like how many Dissidia players are excited to see Y'shtola get reworked so heavily since it means it's basically a new character we can learn.
That's just my take though. I'm curious to see what other people think, and in particular, if you feel your favourite characters could use a rework. The concept of character reworks is something the Smash community has taken to be a "wait for the next installment" thing but Ultimate is likely gonna be our Smash game for non-Melee/PM players for a very long time, and especially for casual players, so I think we should consider expressing the idea of character reworks within this game's update cycle rather than waiting for a new game.
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