Discussion about using keyboard

[Lawrencelot]

Using the keyboard has advantages and disadvantages. The most obvious and maybe sole advantage is DI (aside from that a keyboard is already on your computer and you don't need to install things). Disadvantage is that some basic techniques are not possible, or require another move to be done first. I want to discuss how big these advantages and disadvantages are, because I think the difference with a controller is smaller than most people think.

I use keyboard for over 2 years now. A few weeks ago I played this game on a wii with a gamecube controller, that was the first time I played this game with a controller. First I had to get used to the controls (which didn't take long as they were melee controls), but I quickly noticed something. While being edgeguarded, I DI-ed into the wall like I do on keyboard, but I didn't even think while doing it. As far as I know I didn't even perform a slide DI, I probably just holded my control stick (diagonally) towards the wall like I do in melee (on purpose or not). While online controller users call this something like hax if I do it consistently on keyboard, I also did it consistently on controller without any effort at all. So I think this type of DI is not a big advantage for keyboard.

Then there's DI out of drills. I didn't really try it a lot on the console, but without too much effort I think I got half the DI I'd get on keyboard. So this is probably the major advantage for keyboard players: getting out of drills quickly. But still, I think it is possible to do the same with a controller, it only takes some more effort. And a lot of players do not do anything to prevent this DI: in most cases, like pika's fair and samus's upB, you can follow the DI to limit it's effectiveness.

Then the disadvantages: 1 basic technique that can't be done is 'walk'. Because dashdancing exists, walking isn't that useful for spacing in this game as it is in for example Brawl. One of the most important things walking is used for is to chain uptilts. Obviously, this is also no problem on keyboard because IF you manage to do an uptilt, you can just go left or right immediately after the uptilt and you'll walk. Since your reaction time takes less than the duration of an uptilt (hopefully) this shouldn't be a problem. Right now I can't really think of other great uses for walking, maybe for spacing a downsmash or a tilt, but if you shorthop or even full hop enough you can plan your walk after you land on the ground, with a canceled aerial or not. Both upsmash and sidesmash can be done while running, though sidesmash requires a dashdance/pivot/whatever you call it.

Tilts. Downtilt is no problem. Again, a sidetilt or uptilt can be done easily after a canceled shorthop aerial. It all requires a bit of planning, but doing a sidetilt out of the blue is rarely a good option anyway. Doing an uptilt out of the blue is often effective, however. This can be solved by getting used to always holding up if you do nothing. If you never do nothing, this is no issue.

Obviously, instead of a shorthop aerial you can also decide to grab, empty shorthop, jab, do a b move, dash attack, etc. into a tilt or walk. A player who is never doing nothing should have no problem with the keyboard disadvantage of no walking/tilting out of the blue.

Then there's the fact that you only have 8 directions (though I've heard a rumour that it's possible to have more on kb). This is a real disadvantage for Fox, it is needed for the upB. Pika also suffers from this, but not as much because his recovery is ... anyway. I've never had a problem with Ness's upB though, I don't think having more than 8 directions for this move is crucial.

Maybe I forgot more things, but it's kinda late and I wrote this post at once so bare with me. Anyway, I think that using a keyboard isn't any more 'fake smash' than using a controller on an emulator is. I have almost zero experience with controller for this game so I might be wrong, but then I'll hear that in this topic.

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

Walking at variable speeds, tilting easily out of nothing, fastfall uairs... In my opinion the n64 controller cant be beat, I used a Dpad before, similar to keyboard I find since you cant really walk or utilt out of nowhere without "buffering" it as I call it.

I use a ps2 controller now, I can walk and utilt out of nothing and stuff but its just not sensitive enough I still space 500x better on console.

Something about moving in the air feels awkward and weird with keyboard and this ps2/dpad stuff Ive been trying. Ill post my opinion on the GC controller when I try it out.

The pros do not outweigh the cons on keyboard vs n64 controller. But if you get good with it keyboard is pretty good for online, just like my ps2 controller. But some things, as the OP said are just impossible on keyboard, REALLY useful stuff.

Look at it this way, if you always have to do something into an uptilt, or always walk the same speed / dashdance ALL the time, you're just making yourself more predictible, good players with all options available on a controller will take advantage and beat you online.

All in all, online is an imitation, try to get a comfortable setting and play with people who are fun. I can't take online smash seriously but I take the fun I get out of it very seriously!

 

[Blue Yoshi]

controller >>> keyboard. More options, you can actually do what you want without doing funny stuff (or without not being able to do them at all).

 

[Skrlx]

lawrence.. it's the gamecube controller

 

[House]

You can walk by crouching then quickly pressing forward with any character using the keyboard.

 

[NixxxoN]

I find a lot of combos easier with the keyboard arrows than with n64 sh¡tty joystick. Thats my case anyways... some people would think different.
And I think PS2 controller is cr@p for smash

 

[NixxxoN]

d0uble post

 

[MattNF]

I can do just about everything a controller can when I'm using keyboard. Some things actually become easier with keyboard too, like Jiggly's Teleport, and Captain Falcon is even easier to use on KB than on Controller.

 

[Lawrencelot]

controller >>> keyboard. More options, you can actually do what you want without doing funny stuff (or without not being able to do them at all).

So you'd never complain about the DI of a keyboard-user, because they have these disadvantages, right?

@Dylan: I'm not saying keyboard is better. Not at all, the game is meant to play with controller. But I always hear people either complain about the good keyboard DI, or they say keyboard sucks. It can't be both, it has to be one of the two: keyboard gives you an advantage, or keyboard gives you a disadvantage over controller. I'm speculating that whatever it is, the difference is not very big.

Look at it this way, if you always have to do something into an uptilt, or always walk the same speed / dashdance ALL the time, you're just making yourself more predictible, good players with all options available on a controller will take advantage and beat you online.

In theory, yes. But I never experienced this. While in the air, the difference with a controller is as good as zero, so this only counts on the ground. But you can make a dashdance as unpredictable as you want. Dashdancing is such an important technique and is used so much, that I think not being able to walk at different speeds is not that important, even at high level play. I never see anyone approach with a walk. It's a bit like... not being able to moonwalk with falcon in melee.

 

[Smeagol]

Hello, I'm a noob and I have some questions. I have never played ssb 64 on the real console because my n64 doesn't really work as it should anymore lol. Now I play the game on the emulator with the the keyboard so I have some questions. When you are controlling the character with the real n64 controller, is pressing "up" supposed to be a jump? (yeah I know this is a stupid question but please answer)

When I play wtih the keyboard, "up" = jump. The reason I want to know that is because I want to know how to do the short backflip like kick with the falcon (you know when you press up + a in the air...I dunno how do you guys call this move here).
If you don't know what I mean here is a vid
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WwmsufRyyMY
at 0:17 Isai does this move
Every time I press up + a after the short hop, it automatically send the falcon higher in the air (since up is a jump) so it isn't "short" anymore (if you know what I mean). So what exactly do I need to press to do that on the keyboard?

 

[KoRoBeNiKi]

Hello, I'm a noob and I have some questions. I have never played ssb 64 on the real console because my n64 doesn't really work as it should anymore lol. Now I play the game on the emulator with the the keyboard so I have some questions. When you are controlling the character with the real n64 controller, is pressing "up" supposed to be a jump? (yeah I know this is a stupid question but please answer)

When I play wtih the keyboard, "up" = jump. The reason I want to know that is because I want to know how to do the short backflip like kick with the falcon (you know when you press up + a in the air...I dunno how do you guys call this move here).
If you don't know what I mean here is a vid
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WwmsufRyyMY
at 0:17 Isai does this move
Every time I press up + a after the short hop, it automatically send the falcon higher in the air (since up is a jump) so it isn't "short" anymore (if you know what I mean). So what exactly do I need to press to do that on the keyboard?

what your describing is short hopping....you have to use the c buttons (the ones to change the color of your character) in order to short hop
it is impossible to shorthop with the controller stick your talking about

It is one of the few things I dislike about smash 64

 

[House]

what your describing is short hopping....you have to use the c buttons (the ones to change the color of your character) in order to short hop
it is impossible to shorthop with the controller stick your talking about

It is one of the few things I dislike about smash 64

It IS possible to short/mid hop using the analog stick in smash 64. You have to be extremely precise though.

 

[Smeagol]

what your describing is short hopping....you have to use the c buttons (the ones to change the color of your character) in order to short hop
it is impossible to shorthop with the controller stick your talking about

It is one of the few things I dislike about smash 64

Yes I know that C buttons are used to short hop. I assigned the c button to one button on the keyboard and I can already short hop quite good with it.

The thing I want to know is how to do the short variation of C. Falcon's backlip kick.
Here is a better vid
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=So-WDpn-o_8
The first 3 backflip kicks this guy did were the thing I want to do one the keyboard and I can't.
This is how it goes with me:
- I press c button lightly to short hop
- Now i want to do the backflip kick right on the spot (without going up) but as soon as I press up + a, Falcon goes higher up in the air (so every time a want to hit my oponnet with that move, I go above him and miss him.)
Maybe that has something to do with those tilt attack (I heard you can't do them on the keyboard in the same way you do with the real N64 controller)

 

[Daedatheus]

The thing I want to know is how to do the short variation of C. Falcon's backlip kick.

Press up and shorthop at the same time, keeping up held down so you can do it during your shorthop? I'm not sure.
What you want to do is a shorthop uair I assume, I've never used keyboard to play smash though so I'm not sure how others do it.

 

[Blue Yoshi]

If you press "up" and "a" at the exact same time, you do an up-air (falcon backflip kick lol) without double-jumping.

 

[Lawrencelot]

Yes what you want to do is called shorthop up-air. On keyboard, it's done this way: press any button that is assigned to c-stick very shortly, so you shorthop. Immediately after (almost at the same time) press the up button that's assigned to the analog stick, and hold that button. Then press the attack button at any time you want while being in the air.

If you press up too late, you will doublejump. If you press up too early, you will do a high jump.

This is a hard technique for keyboard though, you should try other techniques first, like Z-cancel, in case you didn't know that technique already.

 

[NixxxoN]

Yes what you want to do is called shorthop up-air. On keyboard, it's done this way: press any button that is assigned to c-stick very shortly, so you shorthop. Immediately after (almost at the same time) press the up button that's assigned to the analog stick, and hold that button. Then press the attack button at any time you want while being in the air.

If you press up too late, you will doublejump. If you press up too early, you will do a high jump.

This is a hard technique for keyboard though, you should try other techniques first, like Z-cancel, in case you didn't know that technique already.

I do it by holding the up stick after a jump... Like wanting to do uptilts. Its annoying though. I almost never do it. For example with falcon you can win without using it, so i dont care. With mario and luigi its more useful though.

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

On dpad you can shorthop upair like this. It is the only way :

Hold Up on the dpad during the animation of something else (utilt/grab/etc) while holding up, tap forwards to run, shorthop with a button on your controller and press A when you need to uair.

With Falcon its easy grab ---> hold up on dpad ---> fthrow (hold up on the dpad still) then run forwards, shorthop and press A.

I use a ps2 controller now so I can shuair with the stick. Its a crappy stick but it works ok.

 

[NixxxoN]

Can't you do grab to fair instead of grab to shuair? It works well for me, even if they di.

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

well, I like to grab people around 15% like after a bair or whatever, then fthrow, shuair, shfair, and you can do a bunch of stuff after that, another shuair into a possible uair-falconpunch finish, or you can get em off the stage and try to end it with a nair or YEHS or something.

Grab at 0% to shuair to regrab is a nice combo starter too. But yeah fthrow fair leads to a lot of stuff specially if you can run off a ledge and uair without jumping, which on a keyboard or Dpad youd have to be holding upwards while you run off the edge.

Keyboard gives you easier DI in the sense that you can mash directions so easily, but honnestly you can DI fine with a controller, and the controller has SOOO many advantages over the keyboard.

My opinion is that the keyboard is usable, but does not allow you to use your full potential, especially if you're a good console player.

 

[Tambor]

Yes what you want to do is called shorthop up-air. On keyboard, it's done this way: press any button that is assigned to c-stick very shortly, so you shorthop. Immediately after (almost at the same time) press the up button that's assigned to the analog stick, and hold that button. Then press the attack button at any time you want while being in the air.

If you press up too late, you will doublejump. If you press up too early, you will do a high jump.

This is a hard technique for keyboard though, you should try other techniques first, like Z-cancel, in case you didn't know that technique already.

I've gotten used to playing with the up button pressed and releasing it when know I will do something else. So shuair is just c-stick then A - it's a lot easier than that technique. Personally I have more trouble with drop down ledge, fast fall,uair... I get that right about 30-40% of the time.

 

[Goldberg]

I use a psx controller but I hate the analog on it, how can I do stuff like pivot jabs on dpad/keyboard?

 

[MattNF]

I use a psx controller but I hate the analog on it, how can I do stuff like pivot jabs on dpad/keyboard?

dash, then at the end of your dash tap the other direction really quickly to pivot

 

[Blue Yoshi]

You can do an up-air without double jumping or down-air without fastfalling on keyboard without holding the button. If you press both 'up' and 'a' at the exact same time, you do an up-air without double jumping. It's fairly easy to do on a keyboard, as you press down at the same time to both buttons. Same thing with down-air without fastfalling. You press 'down' and 'a' at the exact same time.

It has to be at virtually the exact same time. If you press 'a' too early, you will do a neutral air (whether you were trying to up-air or down-air). If you press up too early, you will double jump. If you press down too early, you will fastfall. So make sure you can do it consistently before attempting down-airing off the stage...

I can do it with about 90%+ efficiency, so it is useful for me.



As for keyboard vs controller, there are simply many more options available to the controller as compared to the keyboard. The few advantages available to the keyboard don't come near to the advantages available to the controller. I personally am probably better with the keyboard at the moment, but prefer the controller by far.

 

[Fireblaster]

Keyboard just sucks *** for smash. The only thing it gives you is the godly ability to do a technique which would never be possible on console, therefore changing what the game's about.

Anyone that plays on keyboard is just being **** lazy. You can easily buy a $15- adapter that will let you plug in a controller from a console of your choice into the computer or even buy some generic pc controller for the same amount.

 

[NixxxoN]

Keyboard just sucks *** for smash. The only thing it gives you is the godly ability to do a technique which would never be possible on console, therefore changing what the game's about.

Anyone that plays on keyboard is just being **** lazy. You can easily buy a $15- adapter that will let you plug in a controller from a console of your choice into the computer or even buy some generic pc controller for the same amount.

I disagree. Keyboard works well for some characters. Not that well for some others though.
BUt it all depends of the players preferences. In my case, i never liked the 64 joystick much, and its not so precise like the GCN one. I find easier to do a lot of stuff with keyboard than with the original controller, although there is the tilts problem.

 

[Lawrencelot]

Keyboard just sucks *** for smash. The only thing it gives you is the godly ability to do a technique which would never be possible on console, therefore changing what the game's about.

Anyone that plays on keyboard is just being **** lazy. You can easily buy a $15- adapter that will let you plug in a controller from a console of your choice into the computer or even buy some generic pc controller for the same amount.

This is only true if you're used to a controller. I never even played this game on the N64, so why should I go for some PS2 or Xbox controller which is still as 'fake' as playing with keyboard? I'm used to keyboard, that's what I play best with, either I play with that or I play with a N64 controller on the N64 or I play with any controller on the wii. It's like, (yes I like analogies but I suck at them), always eating a cheap type of pizza, and someone says, 'dude why don't you eat a real American pizza', while real pizza is always Italian. Meh, fail again.

 

[Fireblaster]

This is only true if you're used to a controller. I never even played this game on the N64, so why should I go for some PS2 or Xbox controller which is still as 'fake' as playing with keyboard? I'm used to keyboard, that's what I play best with, either I play with that or I play with a N64 controller on the N64 or I play with any controller on the wii. It's like, (yes I like analogies but I suck at them), always eating a cheap type of pizza, and someone says, 'dude why don't you eat a real American pizza', while real pizza is always Italian. Meh, fail again.

Except telling someone to play with keyboard would be like telling them to eat a taco instead of a pizza. A controller is still a controller, requiring both hands, having shoulder and face buttons, along with 1/2 joysticks. Keyboard is ******** in that it requires buffering of everything that needs joystick precision and can COMPLETELY ALTER THE GAME with ridiculous DI.

 

[Superstar]

The ridiculous DI thing applies to Gamecube controllers I hear.

The rest holds true.

 

[Skrlx]

the Ridiculous Di Thing Applies To Gamecube Controllers I Hear.

The Rest Holds True.

No U!.....

 

[Lawrencelot]

Except telling someone to play with keyboard would be like telling them to eat a taco instead of a pizza. A controller is still a controller, requiring both hands, having shoulder and face buttons, along with 1/2 joysticks. Keyboard is ******** in that it requires buffering of everything that needs joystick precision and can COMPLETELY ALTER THE GAME with ridiculous DI.

I would never tell anyone to play with keyboard. At least, not seriously. I see no reason to go from controller to keyboard. My point was, that keyboard has an advantage and a disadvantage, and that I think they don't alter the game as much as you and other people say it does, and I was wondering if the advantage and disadvantages sort of 'cancel each other out', making it even more ok to use keyboard. DI on drills can be followed, survival DI happens with controllers as well, and any player that is used to keyboard has no problem with the tilts. Keyboard is not any more fake smash than other forms of emulated smash, that's what I'm debating. It's like a melee falcon player who doesn't know how to moonwalk but walltechs while recovering 95% of the time.

 

[some1rational]

as an N64 controller user, I am biased and side with the idea that keyboard is somewhat limited (with respect to what's already been discussed); but I see it as limited only seemingly, I do not doubt that a kb player can be just as competent as a good controller player with enough practice

in general, I have no problems with people preferring one device over another; the fact is, being good still requires immense practice/knowledge/skill no matter what you choose [which, on another note, I've never understood why key-mapping for competitive starcraft is e.g. not allowed...because you would still need the knowledge/skill of knowing when to press what...only what you press may be at a different place]

my 2 cents

 

[Deleted member]

Keyboard cannot up-air after dropping off of a platform

using tilts require smart buffering

difficult to jump out of shield and attack


Me, Nephiros, and Nintendude (who still uses kb) were the 3 keyboard players who kicked many people's ***** back in the day.

I've found Falcon to be easier on Keyboard but you limit yourself with almost every other character. It's harder to double jump cancel with precision and you cannot even simply walk unless you buffer it. Like I said before you can't up-air while platform dropping for me at elast

Nevertheless Keyboard can be viable and I can DI ( only one direction) just as well as I can on keyboard for that one direction

 

[Blue Yoshi]

If you press up and a at the exact same time, you can up-air from a platform drop.

People can choose which they prefer. There is no written rule saying keyboard is illegal for smash. I personally use keyboard online, but prefer the controller. I see no point in buying an adapter, as I'm not playing on an emulator much anyways.

As for keyboard being fake smash, changing to a CPU controller is no more real than a controller. The only 'real' smash is on a 64 console with 64 controllers. Anything else is fake, no matter what type of controller is used.

At least that's my opinion.

 

[NixxxoN]

Thats so true.

Emulator is fake smash no matter if you use the original controller or other controllers or keyboard.

Playing on Keyboard is not an advantage indeed. I think its more like a handicap if anything... Good DI but doesnt compensate many weak points. Gamecube controller is way better than both keyboard and N64 controller. Good DI and the best precision.

BTW I've seen way too many broken N64 controllers in my life to now bother buying one and getting trashed 3 months after

 

[Nintendude]

I think keyboard DI is exaggerated. I've seen many controller players with better DI than me, and my skill at the reverse ledge bounce is from knowledge of why it happens, not because I get "lucky" keyboard DI (if anyone wants to know how to do it I'll tell you). I play the game to have fun and I'm perfectly fine with playing with the keyboard online. A nice side effect is that my controllers are staying in great shape because they aren't getting molested by Smash.

I do feel the limitations of the keyboard (really wish I could platform drop uair) but I don't play the game seriously enough to care.

 

[ballin4life]

I think keyboard DI is exaggerated. I've seen many controller players with better DI than me, and my skill at the reverse ledge bounce is from knowledge of why it happens, not because I get "lucky" keyboard DI (if anyone wants to know how to do it I'll tell you). I play the game to have fun and I'm perfectly fine with playing with the keyboard online. A nice side effect is that my controllers are staying in great shape because they aren't getting molested by Smash.

I do feel the limitations of the keyboard (really wish I could platform drop uair) but I don't play the game seriously enough to care.

Tell me plz?

 

[Nintendude]

Be above the ledge and DI down into it (or even up and away, seems like any DI works). This means don't sweetspot the ledge. Simple.

 

[d2o]

NES gamepad FTW !