Differences between Simon and Richter

[SmashBro99]

Fire colors, animations, taunts, victory pose?

That's all we've seen anyway.

Richter is an echo over being an alt maybe because it's just easier to hype him as his own character and they both rep a new franchise for smash. That's stupid so I hope I'm wrong and they are unique in some ways.

 

[Turnips and Daisies.]

Fire colors, animations, taunts, victory pose?

That's all we've seen anyway.

Richter is an echo over being an alt maybe because it's just easier to hype him as his own character and they both rep a new franchise for smash. That's stupid so I hope I'm wrong and they are unique in some ways.

Yes.

It’s heavily implied to be just the obligatory taunts and victory animations.

The idle stance and animations are different and the colour of the fire but that seems to be it

 

[Diem]

It's interesting how little we've seen of the differences between many of the new Echo Fighters and their counterparts besides animations. Chrom is the only clear one because of his different Up-B and Final Smash, but other than that we don't know much more about him or the others. Many of Dark Samus's energy attacks have electric properties instead of fire properties like Samus's moves, but that's all we know about her.

Guess we'll just have to wait and get our hands on the game this December to figure this stuff out. I'd like to hope that the differences between Echo Fighters this game are a little more substantial than in Smash 4.

 

[meleebrawler]

It's interesting how little we've seen of the differences between many of the new Echo Fighters and their counterparts besides animations. Chrom is the only clear one because of his different Up-B and Final Smash, but other than that we don't know much more about him or the others. Many of Dark Samus's energy attacks have electric properties instead of fire properties like Samus's moves, but that's all we know about her.

Guess we'll just have to wait and get our hands on the game this December to figure this stuff out. I'd like to hope that the differences between Echo Fighters this game are a little more substantial than in Smash 4.

Trying to explain such relatively minute differences would likely bore and/or fly over the heads of more casual viewers.

 

[Turnips and Daisies.]

Trying to explain such relatively minute differences would likely bore and/or fly over the heads of more casual viewers.

The differences can be explained nicely in a short video snippet. Maybe they will do that leading to Ken’s reveal.

I HAVE spotted possible Daisy differences from Peach for example, but I can’t say for sure due to the nature of the development.

 

[meleebrawler]

The differences can be explained nicely in a short video snippet. Maybe they will do that leading to Ken’s reveal.

I HAVE spotted possible Daisy differences from Peach for example, but I can’t say for sure due to the nature of the development.

Ken will probably be a tad more elaborate as an echo than most realize. Two of Ryu's normals (fsmash and heavy ftilt) are moves normally exclusive to him, so there's a good chance Ken will get completely different moves to replace them.

 

[RenoInMO]

So if you haven't seen, Spain got a demo with the whole roster and had a lot of info to report back. Someone has compiled a bunch of the info on Reddit (thread here).

Of note in there: apparently there are differences between Simon & Richter, but they're not known yet. I'll be interested to see what comes of that info.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

Fire colors, animations, taunts, victory pose?

That's all we've seen anyway.

Richter is an echo over being an alt maybe because it's just easier to hype him as his own character and they both rep a new franchise for smash. That's stupid so I hope I'm wrong and they are unique in some ways.

I could argue that he's more his own character in this game - since he at least brings in his own moves for Simon. I can't entirely get used to Daisy using Peach's moveset kit in the same vein.

 

[Judd]

You're pronouncing it correctly. It's rik-ter.

I'm German and I have to say that this pronounciation is wrong. Not gonna blame anyone though because you pronounce these vocals in a other way we do The way we pronounce "ch" is similar to how English speakers pronounce "sh". So the correct way to pronounce it would be Rish-ter

 

[Hinata]

According to people who played the full version at that convention in Spain, Richter and Simon have noticeable differences, they just haven't been documented yet.

 

[Koopaul]

Well it's been a while. I'm still interested in knowing atleast some of the differences in these characters.

 

[JohnKnight416]

According to people who played the full version at that convention in Spain, Richter and Simon have noticeable differences, they just haven't been documented yet.

Did they mention what exactly these noticeable differences are between Simon and Richter?

 

[Terradrius]

According to Gamexplain, Simon is heavier/slower than Richter.

I'd take this with a grain of salt until we have documented data though; they don't say anything really concrete and in my experience it's easy to fool yourself about this sort of thing.

 

[meleebrawler]

According to Gamexplain, Simon is heavier/slower than Richter.

I'd take this with a grain of salt until we have documented data though; they don't say anything really concrete and in my experience it's easy to fool yourself about this sort of thing.

The guys at Nintendolife seem to think Simon is heavier too. Not likely it's a big difference given they're echoes but it is another source.

 

[JohnKnight416]

According to Gamexplain, Simon is heavier/slower than Richter.

I'd take this with a grain of salt until we have documented data though; they don't say anything really concrete and in my experience it's easy to fool yourself about this sort of thing.

If that's the case, than it's likely that Simon will be more suited towards a defensive zoning playstyle whereas Richter will be more suited towards more of an aggressive zoning playstyle.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

According to Gamexplain, Simon is heavier/slower than Richter.

If that's the case, than it's likely that Simon will be more suited towards a defensive zoning playstyle whereas Richter will be more suited towards more of an aggressive zoning playstyle.

Seems to make sense considering the less "weighty" gameplay control on Richter in RoB as opposed to Simon, allowing for better movement, hence how he could work as aggressive zoner. Neat.

 

[MegaDeltaXZ]

If that's the case, than it's likely that Simon will be more suited towards a defensive zoning playstyle whereas Richter will be more suited towards more of an aggressive zoning playstyle.

I sincerely hope this isn't the case, Simon will then be immediately worse than Richter and I plan on maining Simon... Oh well I guess we just have to wait...

 

[JohnKnight416]

I sincerely hope this isn't the case, Simon will then be immediately worse than Richter and I plan on maining Simon... Oh well I guess we just have to wait...

I don't think so. Richter and Simon both have the same movesets since they are echo fighters so their playstyles should technically be the same as well. It just comes down to how you play them.

 

[Bobert]

I don't think so. Richter and Simon both have the same movesets since they are echo fighters so their playstyles should technically be the same as well. It just comes down to how you play them.

Being heavier and slower are almost never good traits to have in a Smash game together. Brawl Snake was fine but would have been even better if he was faster. Being heavier means more combos work on you and you have harder time getting in/getting away with the lower speed. If these differences also apply to their airspeed and fall speed, Simon is going to automatically have a worse recovery as well. Melee Ganondorf is essentially a slower/heavier Falcon and we all see how that turned out.

 

[Chibi-Chan]

Their movesets are completely identical except cosmetically from my experience. I can test weight and movespeed tomorrow.

 

[meleebrawler]

Being heavier and slower are almost never good traits to have in a Smash game together. Brawl Snake was fine but would have been even better if he was faster. Being heavier means more combos work on you and you have harder time getting in/getting away with the lower speed. If these differences also apply to their airspeed and fall speed, Simon is going to automatically have a worse recovery as well. Melee Ganondorf is essentially a slower/heavier Falcon and we all see how that turned out.

Ganondorf is not an echo of Falcon, and any attribute differences between echos are very minimal. What are the odds we'd know Ken was faster if it wasn't pointed out to us or we didn't do a side-by-side comparison?

 

[SvartWolf]

also have heard teh reports... but it would be nice if someone that already got thegame to confirm :/

 

[smashingDoug]

Richter is more sexy

Each their own I guess. But we can lie Simon is.manly . Richter looks soy

 

[Bobert]

Ganondorf is not an echo of Falcon, and any attribute differences between echos are very minimal. What are the odds we'd know Ken was faster if it wasn't pointed out to us or we didn't do a side-by-side comparison?

I didn't say Ganondorf was an echo of Falcon, but you can't tell me he isn't a clone. Even if the changes are minimal, what I said is still true and Simon will likely end up worse than Richter if speed and weight are the only changes, even if it's just by a little bit like how Dark Pit is only slightly worse than Pit in Smash 4.

 

[Chibi-Chan]

Testing their weight with Mewtwo sweetspot Fsmash and Upthrow.

Vs Simon, Fsmash KOes at 81%., Upthrow at 152% (They very hard to kill off the top).
Vs Richter I got the exactly same amounts, so they are identical in this respect.

Their run speed seems to be the same, as well as the damage on any move I've checked.

 

[JohnKnight416]

Testing their weight with Mewtwo sweetspot Fsmash and Upthrow.

Vs Simon, Fsmash KOes at 81%., Upthrow at 152% (They very hard to kill off the top).
Vs Richter I got the exactly same amounts, so they are identical in this respect.

Their run speed seems to be the same, as well as the damage on any move I've checked.

Are you sure that Simon and Richter are the same in terms of weight and speed? Cuz that contradicts what Gamexplain said about Simon being slower and heavier than Richter.

Were there any differences in performance between Simon and Richter that you could find?

 

[Chibi-Chan]

Testing their weight with Mewtwo sweetspot Fsmash and Upthrow.

Vs Simon, Fsmash KOes at 81%., Upthrow at 152% (They very hard to kill off the top).
Vs Richter I got the exactly same amounts, so they are identical in this respect.

Their run speed seems to be the same, as well as the damage on any move I've checked.

I've yet to find ANY differences that aren't just cosmetic at all. My test showed they are pretty much the same weight. Their moves deal the same damage... If there's a difference it's probably minute that I can't notice it without seeing the frame data.

 

[SvartWolf]

Are you sure that Simon and Richter are the same in terms of weight and speed? Cuz that contradicts what Gamexplain said about Simon being slower and heavier than Richter.

Were there any differences in performance between Simon and Richter that you could find?

Kurogane hammer just released weight and run stats, and they are the same for teh belmonts. so.. unless teh difference lies on framedata or walkspeed .. which i don't think so.. the reason of why they feel different is:

Pure Placebo.

 

[Terradrius]

So for what very little it's worth, Simon might be the tiniest bit taller? I took the two of them and Fox to Moray Towers, stuck Simon behind Richter on the top-right, and then had Fox slowly walk down the ramp towards them shooting his blaster. I found a height at which, depending on where Simon was in the "breathing" part of his idle animation, the lasers would hit him but would almost always go over Richter's head.

Now, this could literally just be that Simon's "breathing" idle animation stretches him a bit higher than Richter and there is no size difference at any other time; I'm not really equipped to test that. I'm also not sure if Richter is a little wider or anything to "compensate."

 

[Muramasa96]

One thing is their down b
Richters with float to the ground in a straight line diagonally down
Simon's will go forward then drop straight down

 

[MasterMarine1993]

I find Richter easier to control. I played with Simon, and found him very hard to control in the air (because that's how he was in his original game). With Richter, I find him much better to fight with.

 

[veovis]

I find Richter easier to control. I played with Simon, and found him very hard to control in the air (because that's how he was in his original game). With Richter, I find him much better to fight with.

this is probably just a placebo because kuroganehammer has both their air speed and air acceleration listed as the same. or kuroganehammer is wrong, but i doubt it.

 

[DiSCERiTY]

I find Richter easier to control. I played with Simon, and found him very hard to control in the air (because that's how he was in his original game). With Richter, I find him much better to fight with.

Pure placebo

 

[THE 6r]

So are there no differences? Or have we just not figured it all out yet?

 

[Shieldlesscap]

this is probably just a placebo because kuroganehammer has both their air speed and air acceleration listed as the same. or kuroganehammer is wrong, but i doubt it.

Tbf, Doc and Mario are listed with the same stats so it's *possible* for the stat differences not to be there

 

[aleckermit]

One thing is their down b
Richters with float to the ground in a straight line diagonally down
Simon's will go forward then drop straight down

I see no difference when testing in training mode.

It's going to be really lame if Simon/Richter and Daisy/Peach are identical to play.

 

[hinode]

https://www.reddit.com/r/SmashBrosUltimate/comments/a4wz71/difference_between_simon_and_richter/

I'm pretty sure this is correct. Simon's holy water causes blast boxes to explode immediately in training mode, while Richter's doesn't.

 

[S_B]

Is this truly all there is?

That's disappointing. I was hoping for more variety here and all they needed to do was change some weight or KB values around here and there to greatly vary their playstyles.

God knows, if Chrom is an echo of Roy despite his massive differences, there's no reason Simon and Richter couldn't have a few notable ones...

 

[Shieldlesscap]

Is this truly all there is?

That's disappointing. I was hoping for more variety here and all they needed to do was change some weight or KB values around here and there to greatly vary their playstyles.

God knows, if Chrom is an echo of Roy despite his massive differences, there's no reason Simon and Richter couldn't have a few notable ones...

There will more than likely be other things

 

[Guynamednelson]

Tbf, Doc and Mario are listed with the same stats so it's *possible* for the stat differences not to be there

Dr. Mario uses +attack and -speed equipment to get his balance differences, so it's hard to determine his stats.