Diddy Nerfed?

[Dre89]

I know it's really too early to determine anything conclusive, but I figured we may as well discuss it seeing as these boards are dead anyway. So we know glidetossing is out, and that nanas only trip once. That already seems like a pretty big hit.

I think the next two biggest things that will impact his viability that have yet to have been confirmed are whether he gets a second nana, and whether throwing a nana at someone will trip them.

I suspect that the range buffs might be to compensate for nerfs to his nana game. If his nana game does get nerfed, I don't think range buffs and frame data buffs will adequately compensate, and overall I'd consider it a net nerf.

 

[Luigi player]

Who knows. Is there a video or something that you can link which confirms "you only trip once from a banana"? Because I don't think I've ever noticed it. Someone also said bananas disappear after hitting a shield... is that true?

No glidetoss will be really annoying. But we can't know for sure unless we know how/what all the changes are. I could still see him as being a great character, but it'll depend on so many things that we just don't know right now.

Edit: There were bananas on the stream right now and they tripped multiple times (without being picked up in between).

 

[Psychoace]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sTHyYHin2lg

at the end they show a new form of turn cancel item tossing. perhaps here is what you diddys will do now.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

It's only justified if the bananas are nerfed, with the added range buff I suspect they want him to play less cowardly and get more into the fray. Overall it's probably going to end up as a slight nerf, but that's fine considering Diddy is one of the top tiers of Brawl, only behind other characters that also need nerfs.

 

[Luigi player]

Sometimes bananas seem to disappear even after hitting an enemy normally (from throwing the bananapeel at them), but not always. Either that stuff is random, or they have some sort of timer even while not being on the ground, or it's just buggy.

Btw, these banana fruits who sometimes fall down from trees on the animal crossing island... if you pick them up they're like the food banana item that heals a few %, but then you also have a banana peel in the hand. That detail... really cool.

 

[Chaos Archangel]

Where were Diddy changes announced? o.O I haven't seen anything on him at all.

 

[Ryan.]

Don't forget they also mentioned something about his recovery having more horizontal trajectories, in addition to his range buffs.

 

[ミスティック Speed]

The only quarrel I have with Diddy is his banana abuse in SSBB. As long as they nerf it's usage, I could care less what else happens.

 

[Empty Number]

If bananas are nerfed a bit I'd like to see Diddy's KO potential increase. I don't think range is quite enough to give him to compensate for a neutered banana game.

 

[Luigi player]

I'm kinda hoping Diddy won't be needing to use bananas to survive. It's always annoying how dependent he is of them. They should be able to help, but he shouldn't be helpless without them.

And yeah his upB got a buff. You can charge for a split second and immediately go straight horizontal. That's really interesting.

 

[Dre89]

If bananas are nerfed it will result in a net nerf, as buffs to his range or KO power won't be adequate compensation. He had decent frame data in Brawl, but without a banana game he'd basically be around Brawl Sheik's level. That's not bad but it's a big drop for Diddy.

I don't understand why people want him to be less dependent on bananas, or to make his bananas worse. Bananas were a unique mechanic in Brawl and were what gave Diddy so much depth as a character. They were strong but not broken. There was lots of counterplay to them, so much so that you could use them against him. And although the move wasn't taken from any of his games, the banana game fits his character as a nimble and tricky fighter.

In other news, charged neutral B will probably be his punish after a shield break, but who breaks shields with Diddy lol.

 

[Luigi player]

I don't understand why people want him to be less dependent on bananas

Well to me it's annoying having to run away and plucking bananas every so often to not get combo'd/gimp suddenly. Obviously this is characterspecific, but the characters that are good at this are some of the best characters.
I hate having to retreat and always get out bananas, that's too dependant. I don't want them to be nerfed, Diddy just needs some buffs, so he isn't like a Nana (ICs) when he doesn't have them out.

 

[Dre89]

Honestly I wouldn't mind nerfs too much. If he's not high tier this game it means that the only people that will play him will be Diddy fans, rather than people who played him in Brawl just because he was good.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Honestly I wouldn't mind nerfs too much. If he's not high tier this game it means that the only people that will play him will be Diddy fans, rather than people who played him in Brawl just because he was good.

Diddy never really had these sort of players actually. It's weird, but Diddy has very few actual dedicated players maining him in Brawl despite his Tier position. Marth, Falco and Snake aren't as good as him, but they have farrrr more players than Diddy.

Also, I liked the debt in Diddy's banana play. So yes, I would like him to keep it. But as Luigi player said, I don't want him to be completely dependant on them either. Diddy should be just as dangerous without them I feel. It should be part of his options and options meaning not necessary a better choice for action all around.

As for other buffs, I want a power buff for N Air, U Air, B Air, F Tilt and F Smash.

 

[Dre89]

Diddy never really had these sort of players actually. It's weird, but Diddy has very few actual dedicated players maining him in Brawl despite his Tier position. Marth, Falco and Snake aren't as good as him, but they have farrrr more players than Diddy.

Also, I liked the debt in Diddy's banana play. So yes, I would like him to keep it. But as Luigi player said, I don't want him to be completely dependant on them either. Diddy should be just as dangerous without them I feel. It should be part of his options and options meaning not necessary a better choice for action all around.

As for other buffs, I want a power buff for N Air, U Air, B Air, F Tilt and F Smash.

He might have been less popular than them because he's quite technical. That's what I like about the banana game, not only does it give him that tricky feeling, but it gives his play a lot of depth too.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Exactly! Diddy was easily the character with the most debt going on for him in Brawl. That's what made the switch between Melee and Brawl far more acceptable to me. Lack of technical skill? Not when you play as Diddy! Diddy basically made Brawl for me. And that's not only cause of his inclusion, but also his playstyle.

Only thing I really hope for is that cartwheel is still mad with combos, and that Forward Air is still an awesome kill move. Matter of fact, it should still be the best aerial attack in the game. With all the emphasis on ground fighting (so far) I really hope that Diddy stays as dangerous in the air as it is. And of course, his ground game will be buffed up.

 

[Luigi player]

Yikarur confirmed for me that jump cancelled item throw is still in! I knew it ^___^
Now there's our glidetoss replacement. It isn't the same, but you can do it out of shield and you can slide with it. Dribbling would be kinda difficult though, but I'm happy with it.


Edit: actually, I noticed you can't do JCIT out of shield. Now this does change some stuff for Diddy.
Oh well, we'll see how it'll turn out...

 

[GOofyGV]

Yikarur confirmed for me that jump cancelled item throw is still in! I knew it ^___^
Now there's our glidetoss replacement. It isn't the same, but you can do it out of shield and you can slide with it. Dribbling would be kinda difficult though, but I'm happy with it.


Edit: actually, I noticed you can't do JCIT out of shield. Now this does change some stuff for Diddy.
Oh well, we'll see how it'll turn out...

you never know, maybe people will find new stuff to use bananas, although I guess they can be used for better stage control in this game since characters fall a bit faster.

 

[Luigi player]

you never know, maybe people will find new stuff to use bananas, although I guess they can be used for better stage control in this game since characters fall a bit faster.

You're right. And yeah, bananas will probably still be really strong. Especially with all the landing lag. Now nobody is safe if they approach aerially (unless they have multijumps)...

 

[GOofyGV]

You're right. And yeah, bananas will probably still be really strong. Especially with all the landing lag. Now nobody is safe if they approach aerially (unless they have multijumps)...

I forgot about this. People now can't just pick up the bananas with arials or Airdodges when they are on the ground. which makes it even better to just put them on the ground for stage control.

 

[Diddy Kong]

And with Diddy's range buffs he can play some cool mindgames to. Doubt Sakurai would say he'll have significant range buffs if it only applies for his Forward Tilt.

 

[Wii Twerk Trainer]

Diddy Kong was nerfed. He can only pull 1 banana now. If he pulls another one the previous one disappears instantly.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Diddy Kong was nerfed. He can only pull 1 banana now. If he pulls another one the previous one disappears instantly.

This is some real bull****.

 

[Wii Twerk Trainer]

This is some real bull****.

To be honest he would be overpowered and too good like he was in brawl and having the ability to wreck most characters with his double bananas. This is a good balance to him. Mk was nerfed severely as well. Guess sakurai wanted to nerf all the brawl top tiers.

 

[Jigglymaster]

Glide tossing might also be cut for all we know, making this nerf even greater.

From what Zip said about Diddy, the banana that disappears is the one already out on the field, however, it was never specified if it still disappears the opponent is currently holding it. If that IS the case, then I don't think this is much of a nerf at all, it basically makes it so that Diddy ALWAYS has control over his bananas and his opponents do not. "Oh you stole my banana? Well not anymore cause I got it back"

On the flip side, if Diddy cannot spawn bananas when the opponent is holding his first one, then that could be really bad for him. Especially if the Villager pockets his bananas and he has to fight the villager the whole game w/o any bananas.

Overall, I think Diddy's banana game did deserve a nerf, and on the flip side lets hope that his non-banana game is buffed so he can fight a bit more reliably without them. That should make for a more balanced character.

 

[Krynxe]

That is an interesting point, if he can re-spawn the banana at any time then he can always have control over it. I think that Diddy will still be good, but he will be less reliant on his bananas. That being said, I don't think he will need to rely on his bananas to compete with the best characters any more, at least not to the extent that he did in Brawl.

Also, I imagine that if villager pockets Diddy's banana, it either disappears when diddy pulls out a new one, or the one in the villager's pocket counts as just an item banana and will not prevent Diddy from pulling out a new banana. This is using the same logic as having seen Villager pocket another villager's gyroid, it does not prevent that villager from using his side-b because the gyroid no longer belongs to him and simply does not count as being 'active' or 'out' any more. Hopefully that made sense lol

 

[Luigi player]

It was already said that Diddy won't make the banana disappear with his downB. He'll just not pull anything and shrug. And yeah glide tossing is out. Only thing you can do is jump cancelled item throw (this is a slide like glidetoss, but it doesn't work out of shield).

Now the streams showed a few things:

- You can control Diddys UpB MID FLIGHT, and REALLY FAST too!
- You can move UpB into any direction it seems, you can even move downwards (into the ground if you want to explode, could be a nice KO mixup move)
- He REALLY has more range, which seems to help.

With his quickness and more range and that mother of god UpB buff it seems like overall he could actually still be a great character.

 

[ADAPT Chance]

The banana nerf should be fine, Diddy is looking pretty solid and has some interesting range/pressure tactics.

 

[Empty Number]

The banana nerf should be fine, Diddy is looking pretty solid and has some interesting range/pressure tactics.

Can you be more specific? Have you played the game? Do you have links to videos? I'm interested.

 

[ADAPT Chance]

^Watching the VGBootCamp stream, they were getting really in depth with Diddy a little while ago. Diddy's F-air is definitely one of the quicker aerials in the game.

http://www.twitch.tv/vgbootcamp

 

[an1bal]

So, bottom line? nerfed or buffed?

 

[JC Ralls]

Diddy seems solid. His bananas got nerfed but he can combo into his aerials quite well with Dair and his down throw. His jetpack seems like it got buffed quite a lot since it can go in all sorts of directions and his Uair can kill relatively well.

 

[meleebrawler]

That is an interesting point, if he can re-spawn the banana at any time then he can always have control over it. I think that Diddy will still be good, but he will be less reliant on his bananas. That being said, I don't think he will need to rely on his bananas to compete with the best characters any more, at least not to the extent that he did in Brawl.

Also, I imagine that if villager pockets Diddy's banana, it either disappears when diddy pulls out a new one, or the one in the villager's pocket counts as just an item banana and will not prevent Diddy from pulling out a new banana. This is using the same logic as having seen Villager pocket another villager's gyroid, it does not prevent that villager from using his side-b because the gyroid no longer belongs to him and simply does not count as being 'active' or 'out' any more. Hopefully that made sense lol

Megaman can throw another Metal Blade when Villager pockets one, so I think it's
the same with Diddy.

 

[Dragoomba]

Alright, I'm going to say it.

Diddy Kong's new uair might be one of the best moves in the game. It's super quick (to the point that you can true combo into one or two of them), it has an amazing hitbox, it's great for catching both baiting and catching air-dodges, and it's a legit kill move.

Anybody else agree?