Diddy Kong Whining/Defense Thread

[Funkermonster]

This is cancer:

That said, I find worse than Diddy to be honest with that crazy Fair and Bounching Fish, and rack up damage ridiculously quick. At least Diddy has a mediocre recovery/offstage game in comparison. If that stupid Uair and SideB had less damage and/or knockback, I think Diddy would be fine otherwise.

I personally liked playing him more in Brawl though, nerf to his banana shenanigans made him less fun to play.

 

[Killtrox]

This is cancer:

That said, I find worse than Diddy to be honest with that crazy Fair and Bounching Fish, and rack up damage ridiculously quick. At least Diddy has a mediocre recovery/offstage game in comparison. If that stupid Uair and SideB had less damage and/or knockback, I think Diddy would be fine otherwise.

I personally liked playing him more in Brawl though, nerf to his banana shenanigans made him less fun to play.

Tbh I like Captain Falcon more than Sheik at this point. I got tired of putting in enormous amounts of effort and still not being able to kill characters like Diddy until ridiculous percentages. Also, no spike, and spikes are like the most satisfying part of Smash Bros (I miss you, Melee Falco).

I think from now on I'll mostly be using Sheik to handle characters I can't beat with Falcon, like goddamn Kirby. Jesus, Kirby is a nightmare for the Cap. He's basically ungrabbable and attacks just miss his stupid ass.

But yeah, Sheik is definitely more manageable than Diddy. Tournament placings can reveal that much. It's also hard to complain about a Fair that covers maybe 11 to 7 (talking on a clock) when Diddy's Uair covers 7 to 2.

Furthermore, Diddy doesn't need off-stage game. If Sheik didn't have that, her only kill option would be Uair at 120+ percent and F-smash at 100+ percent, or vanish at slightly lower percents, though it's highly punishable. Getting in on Diddy with his crazy reach and banana shenanigans is hard enough as it is, but Sheik's best approaches are from the air, where there are Diddy's better aerials to contend with.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

I seem to prefer doing far more than the D-U-setup.

My goshers though...

 

[RobinOnDrugs]

I personally think people should find ways to counter Diddy rather than straight up label him as OP. His recovery can be gimped if people can get him while he's preparing the rocket barrels.

Also, when compared to Meta Knight from Brawl, Sm4sh Diddy can't hold a candle to him.

 

[FlipFlopMist]

I personally think people should find ways to counter Diddy rather than straight up label him as OP. His recovery can be gimped if people can get him while he's preparing the rocket barrels.

Also, when compared to Meta Knight from Brawl, Sm4sh Diddy can't hold a candle to him.

That's a terrible arguement, Diddy doesn't have a hard counter due to his playstyle and tools. While he does have a weakness-he's easily gimped-and a good number of characters can exploit that weakness when presented, the fact is that it's not easy to get him in a position where he CAN be gimped currently.

The reason why he gets so much hate is that at this stage of the game's life he's good without the effort other characters have to have put into them, he has kill moves, racks up damage, a command grab, projectiles, etc.

Also, just because he's not the most OP character in smash history, doesn't mean he's not an issue. He's a much smaller issue that will only get smaller as the game ages, but he's still an issue right now.

 

[warriorman222]

That's a terrible arguement, Diddy doesn't have a hard counter due to his playstyle and tools. While he does have a weakness-he's easily gimped-and a good number of characters can exploit that weakness when presented, the fact is that it's not easy to get him in a position where he CAN be gimped currently.

The reason why he gets so much hate is that at this stage of the game's life he's good without the effort other characters have to have put into them, he has kill moves, racks up damage, a command grab, projectiles, etc.

Also, just because he's not the most OP character in smash history, doesn't mean he's not an issue. He's a much smaller issue that will only get smaller as the game ages, but he's still an issue right now.

He's not an issue by how good he is, but by how cheap he is. It's just that those who think he;s an issue will complain like hell, while those who don't will spend their time countering him because the former is far larger and more vocal, it means that people will immediately rush to Diddy seeing the majority, seemingly everyone crying over his OPness, trying to use him for easier wins, or for those like me, to see his weaknesses by using him myself. I can hold my own against a Diddy up to slightly more skilled than me. He's beyond a small issue. the truly good can get around him, or will learn to.

I'm saying cheap because dthrow-uair-1 less stock-loss on FG is extremely annoying, and kinda fits the albeit volatile definition of cheap. people think he's cheap, think he's OP, rush to him, all the unprepared lose, and the cycle continues until eventually the pros start maining him, and all of a sudden he's top tier. This happens a lot in Smash, but never to this extent. It's usually a bottom/low tier getting recognition, or vice versa, a former top tier getting taken down or having the meta go all anti-*insert said character here. good example is Brawl ROB and G&W* on that character.

If it weren't for all the complainers Diddy might not even be considered high tier.

 

[FlipFlopMist]

He's not an issue by how good he is, but by how cheap he is. It's just that those who think he;s an issue will complain like hell, while those who don't will spend their time countering him because the former is far larger and more vocal, it means that people will immediately rush to Diddy seeing the majority, seemingly everyone crying over his OPness, trying to use him for easier wins, or for those like me, to see his weaknesses by using him myself. I can hold my own against a Diddy up to slightly more skilled than me. He's beyond a small issue. the truly good can get around him, or will learn to.

I'm saying cheap because dthrow-uair-1 less stock-loss on FG is extremely annoying, and kinda fits the albeit volatile definition of cheap. people think he's cheap, think he's OP, rush to him, all the unprepared lose, and the cycle continues until eventually the pros start maining him, and all of a sudden he's top tier. This happens a lot in Smash, but never to this extent. It's usually a bottom/low tier getting recognition, or vice versa, a former top tier getting taken down or having the meta go all anti-*insert said character here. good example is Brawl ROB and G&W* on that character.

If it weren't for all the complainers Diddy might not even be considered high tier.

But he is good. He's not OP or even the best character, he's just a character with a lot of options, cheap kill moves, and is incredibly easy to get good with. .-.

 

[warriorman222]

But he is good. He's not OP or even the best character, he's just a character with a lot of options, cheap kill moves, and is incredibly easy to get good with. .-.

I never said he was bad, i said his cheapness made his tier spot, not just how good he is. And you know, a good character can be low on a tier list. ROB is a best example, if MK didn't exist he would have stayed top tier in Brawl, not sunk to low. And I totally agree with your statement: Diddy is by definition good. It's just that he should be much lower on the list, but we (they, you and I are clearly not complaining), the community, complained like hell, the smart mained him, and the even smarter went to the lab. there were too many smart people and now Diddy is top tier. Omny is right (is that how it's spelled?), how we deal with this current issue could shape our future. but he forgot one thing: we may have a monster to deal with, but WE created that monster. not Sakurai. WE did, by complaining and yelling for enrfs, we made a monster. And we need to deal with it. This isn't MK. This isn't Akuma. It's Diddy Kong, and there are top tiers in every fighting game, people get used to it and wait for nerfs. Daddy Sakurai can;t just give us free candy when we make probems, we should be able to get used to Diddy. And if we can't...

If we can't deal with Diddy ourselves, we don't deserve a competetive future. Simple as that. This is our problem, we fix it, or at least get used to it.

 

[NotAnAdmin]

S A D B O Y S

Why is Diddy so good?
Why can't my main have a HOO HAA? (that kills consistently)
Why must I feel these feels?

Can we have a MU thread sometime? I would love to talk to you guys, the Falco board is pretty quiet as of late....

 

[warriorman222]

S A D B O Y S

Why is Diddy so good?
Why can't my main have a HOO HAA? (that kills consistently)
Why must I feel these feels?

Can we have a MU thread sometime? I would love to talk to you guys, the Falco board is pretty quiet as of late....

MU threads wouldn't work, people would just yell 80-20! and 90-19! everywhere. If I ask for someone's worst MU, they say Diddy... even if that character counters him (Villager).

 

[FlipFlopMist]

MU threads wouldn't work, people would just yell 80-20! and 90-19! everywhere. If I ask for someone's worst MU, they say Diddy... even if that character counters him (Villager).

Look, it's not that bad, yeah people generally have an issue with him but people here tend to have constructive conversations about this kinda stuff.
Villager doesn't counter Diddy, Villager has some pro's against the monkey but Villager doesn't enjoy fighting against people with small hit boxes and/or someone who can rush him down properly.
It's no an easy match up for Diddly though.

 

[NotAnAdmin]

Oh... ok..
D E P R E S S I O N B O Y S

 

[Diddy Kong]

But he is good. He's not OP or even the best character, he's just a character with a lot of options, cheap kill moves, and is incredibly easy to get good with. .-.

Exactly what does that make anything different from ?

 

[Dissent]

Exactly what does that make anything different from ?

It doesn't. Casual people just don't like dealing with good projectiles or having to learn to DI (plus, don't forget, most casual players think throws are "cheap") so they get mad.

 

[FlipFlopMist]

Exactly what does that make anything different from ?

Nice strawman, what's your point exactly? Because they're very different characters, but both annoying an unfun to fight against?

It doesn't. Casual people just don't like dealing with good projectiles or having to learn to DI (plus, don't forget, most casual players think throws are "cheap") so they get mad.

Casual casual casual.
I thought this was about Diddy and not Sheik?

 

[warriorman222]

Nice strawman, what's your point exactly? Because they're very different characters, but both annoying an unfun to fight against?

Casual casual casual.
I thought this was about Diddy and not Sheik?

Well either way the true casual will complain about both, for the same reasons.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Nice strawman, what's your point exactly? Because they're very different characters, but both annoying an unfun to fight against?

Extremely dominant in early game, clear Top Tier but eventually will get outshined by other characters with more technical skill to them.

Exactly what happened with when & 's Shine techs got discovered.

 

[warriorman222]

Extremely dominant in early game, clear Top Tier but eventually will get outshined by other characters with more technical skill to them.

Exactly what happened with when & 's Shine techs got discovered.

And Brawl ROB and G&W. Except that was different. for ROB MK's very existence put him from top tier to low tier, while few tried to adapt to G&W so the whole meta went anti G&W, banning stages he was good on and he dropped 10 places or so.

 

[FlipFlopMist]

Extremely dominant in early game, clear Top Tier but eventually will get outshined by other characters with more technical skill to them.

Exactly what happened with when & 's Shine techs got discovered.

Okay, I apologize, I thought you meant this game. :3

 

[Lord Horatio]

If you're fast enough, you can edgeguard Diddy Kong very well in the time it takes for him to recover with his rockets; I usually throw him off the stage with Ness and nail him with PK thunders.

 

[Killtrox]

If you're fast enough, you can edgeguard Diddy Kong very well in the time it takes for him to recover with his rockets; I usually throw him off the stage with Ness and nail him with PK thunders.

Which, unfortunately for everyone, requires you to get Diddy off-stage.

 

[HammyHowell]

Ive been maining Diddy kong, and have also been trying to figure out how I could beat a Diddy if I faced someone with a better Diddy. I don't know about you guys, but facing Mario with Diddy annoys the crap out of me. Mario's fireballs destroy peanuts and bananas, and the fire ball can get a good gimp on diddy's barrel. Next, Marios cape can destroy diddy if he tries to recover with side b, and the cape can reflect peanuts and bananas.

 

[Killtrox]

Ive been maining Diddy kong, and have also been trying to figure out how I could beat a Diddy if I faced someone with a better Diddy. I don't know about you guys, but facing Mario with Diddy annoys the crap out of me. Mario's fireballs destroy peanuts and bananas, and the fire ball can get a good gimp on diddy's barrel. Next, Marios cape can destroy diddy if he tries to recover with side b, and the cape can reflect peanuts and bananas.

I don't like playing Mario. He's better than people give him credit for, I think.

 

[Diddy Kong]

seems to have potential to really screw with I feel. He's really good in the air, and can actually halt our flow, unlike most characters. Nanners are also less effective against him. And consider that had an advantage over in Brawl to, I don't think it's too unlikely will be the first soft-counter to .

 

[Spoice]

I always found it funny how the people whining about grab to down throw to up air x 2 were the ones constantly falling for it. It's like spot dodging, rolling or air movement is non existent to them.

 

[FlipFlopMist]

Ive been maining Diddy kong, and have also been trying to figure out how I could beat a Diddy if I faced someone with a better Diddy. I don't know about you guys, but facing Mario with Diddy annoys the crap out of me. Mario's fireballs destroy peanuts and bananas, and the fire ball can get a good gimp on diddy's barrel. Next, Marios cape can destroy diddy if he tries to recover with side b, and the cape can reflect peanuts and bananas.

Mario is a gimping machine. The bro's just seem to do well against Diddy... Like, they don't destroy'em, but they do well.

 

[Killtrox]

Mario is a gimping machine. The bro's just seem to do well against Diddy... Like, they don't destroy'em, but they do well.

Watching this tournament, it's looking like the Bros do well against everyone. Feel better, Diddys.

 

[Diddy Kong]

These people need a mindset change really. Don't justnuse the character M2K is absusing Nobody is gonna beat him in his "thing" anyway. So many solid characters in this game for once, and people complain only that Diddy's U Air is too strong. I have not even gotten too many kills myself yet with U air cause my friend easily adapted to my strategy. D Throw U Air is NOT inescapable and people need to realise this.

 

[RobinOnDrugs]

These people need a mindset change really. Don't justnuse the character M2K is absusing Nobody is gonna beat him in his "thing" anyway. So many solid characters in this game for once, and people complain only that Diddy's U Air is too strong. I have not even gotten too many kills myself yet with U air cause my friend easily adapted to my strategy. D Throw U Air is NOT inescapable and people need to realise this.

Yeah, I'm surprised not very many people know that you could either air dodge or DI when a Diddy does UAir or FAir after down throw.

The more people know this, the less likely they'll fall for it.

 

[Diddy Kong]

D Throw F Air is a far more reliable combo even and nobody has yet complained about that... Tell me Smashboards, can you escape 's Up Throw U Air? Or didn't you care cause you didn't get beaten online with it?

I actually think Fox is a real solid character in this game to. Am guesisng he'll eventually be Top 10 easily.

 

[Blazing Ambition]

Tfw when you can't DI up-throw up-air from diddy
And when you DI the down-throw and eat a fair anyways. :/
bad times man

 

[Rehnquist]

D Throw F Air is a far more reliable combo even and nobody has yet complained about that... Tell me Smashboards, can you escape 's Up Throw U Air? Or didn't you care cause you didn't get beaten online with it?

I actually think Fox is a real solid character in this game to. Am guesisng he'll eventually be Top 10 easily.

I'm not advocating for a ban, nerf, or anything, (diddy's not my hardest MU anyways, and I'm not competitive enough to where it matters) the game isn't fair and previous smash games have not been fair, that's life/tradition for the series, and this is just a video game, we are free to pick the strongest characters if we so desire, character/class selection is half the battle in most games. But its not hard to see why Uair gets more hate than Fair. Getting 3 Uairs in a row is not that hard to do (I've watched high level players doing it all the time against other high level players), so Uair racks up damage better than Fair. Also Uair kills a lot earlier as its harder to avoid the top blast zone compared to Fair which aims at side blast zones allowing more inputs to save oneself. And last but not least, Uair keeps the game from falling into neutral.

I'm mainly responding because it helps to at least understand (not sympathize) why the opposition thinks/feels a certain way. And its slightly disingenuous to conflate the different opinions on Uair vs Fair as ignorance, while one is safer than the other, the rewards are also higher for the former (not that mixups are bad though).

The only thing that needs to be advocated is a "get tough" / "adapt" message. If you don't like your character, switch to a better one. If winning is thy most important thing for you, switch to the strongest/easiest character (ZeRo's post apex 2015 interview said just that when asked why he plans to stick with Diddy indefinitely despite him being good with every character).

 

[Dissent]

This is a bit off-topic but using the Smashboards emoticons to indicate which game you're talking about isn't a great idea. I've gone through this page numerous times in the past week and I finally just realized that Melee icons were being used to indicate that we were talking about their Melee incarnation. If I see or and I'm in a Smash 4 forum, I think Smash 4 Yoshi, Smash 4 Yoshi, Smash 4 Yoshi and Smash 4 Yoshi when he's high.

 

[FlipFlopMist]

This is a bit off-topic but using the Smashboards emoticons to indicate which game you're talking about isn't a great idea. I've gone through this page numerous times in the past week and I finally just realized that Melee icons were being used to indicate that we were talking about their Melee incarnation. If I see or and I'm in a Smash 4 forum, I think Smash 4 Yoshi, Smash 4 Yoshi, Smash 4 Yoshi and Smash 4 Yoshi when he's high.

Putting a side note next to the icon would fix that issue, (like so) as only the N64 is really comparable to the others.

Back on topic: Diddy Kong is still lame to fight against, but on the bright side at least he kills you quick unlike Mario. :l

 

[AnchorTea]

Why are people complaing about HOO HAA, when Diddy's Smash attacks are the spawn of Satan?

 

[urovoros]

It's fun to see all the Diddy players defending their character. Of course, if you can't counter him, it must be because you suck! We are ignoring the fact that ZeRo destroyed anyone else in Apex 2015. I mean, people played Olimar just trying to counter him. There's no balanced metagame. Just a bunch of characters and the only real top tier: Diddy, a character that makes the game boring by just doing the same over and over again. There's no creativity in using this character. Just Hoo Haa your way to victory.

Just look at the crowd in Apex: everybody was tired of seeing Diddy doing the same over and over again. A sharp contrast with the creative, deep and skilled based Fox, Jiggly, Marth, etc... of Melee. In Smash for Wii U, all the other characters are second tier.

There's little skill involved in playing Diddy.

 

[Player-1]

nice first post

 

[Killtrox]

nice first post

Lmfao

@ urovoros I hate Diddy as much as the next guy, but he's definitely more entertaining than Sonic, Rosalina, and current OlimarsOlimars.

Diddy is absolutely beatable. He has advantages, sure, but he doesn't do nearly as well against projectile-based characters, which is why Olimar made it so far.

If you understand fundamentals, Diddy isn't as bad. If you don't, you're going to complain about the Hoo Hah.

Diddy is annoying as ****, but your post really seems like it's coming from a position of inexperience.

 

[FlipFlopMist]

Lmfao

@ urovoros I hate Diddy as much as the next guy, but he's definitely more entertaining than Sonic, Rosalina, and current OlimarsOlimars.

Diddy is absolutely beatable. He has advantages, sure, but he doesn't do nearly as well against projectile-based characters, which is why Olimar made it so far.

No, Olimar is just a good character in general. Rosalina gameplay is the worst to watch in this game though because of how sluggish her moves look and how passive she plays, hide behind your shield and abuse the absurd range your moves get-no need to go in there and attack! :/

At least Diddy is fast on his kills and give some interesting matches here and there(Zero vs M2K), Sonic you can feel how annoying he is even if you're just watching, but he can cause some interesting matches.

 

[Dissent]

I like how so many people think Diddy is God yet how many made top 8 again at Apex? Bruh do you even compete??