Did ZSS's uair combo get nerfed into the ground?

[Oral Dankness]

I've tried it many times, her down throw-uair-uair-up b combo, but it's so rare to pull off. For one thing when the other person DIs straight up or away from ZSS I can't combo it. Unless I get a really good read and run forward after the down throw, my uair misses completely. Is it even a true combo if it's DI-able?
I know ZSS is still an incredibly good character , but hell one time online I did the combo to a Dedede player who didn't DI, I got the final kick in with him literally OFF the TOP of the SCREEN at 70%. And he lived. Fml now I gotta whittle down the heavy Dedede until I can bair or down b him.
Anyone else having the same problem? I honestly haven't heard much of the latest patch, but I know her uairs and up b had their damage reduced. It's just frustrating picking up a character at one point then needing to adjust to their nerfs (good guy Ganon never lets me down).
Thanks.

 

[Crystanium]

I see others doing the combo, but for some reason I can't.

 

[Uffe]

I was just trying this with my brother. The magic number to pull this off is at least 35%. It doesn't always work, but I've managed to do it a few times against my brother. It would be upsetting if that combo was removed. Hopefully someone with more experience can give you some tips on how to do it.

 

[pichuthedk]

The combo still works but there is basically no point in doing it anymore unless you get a very high ladder combo. A majority of the time they just simply will not die and I don't think I need to tell you what happens if you whiff slightly that high above the stage...

You should stick to single up airs to boost kicks as an early combo starter.
It stales the boost kick, but you are essentially just giving your self stage control and running up the clock slightly every successful full boostkick(I'd like to argue it's up there with the lasting duration moves like falcon/Gannon up b's)

Up air boost kick is pretty much 20% ....like 24 if you get the down throw.

 

[Galaxeon]

The combo still exist but doesn't kill as consistantly (you can still get a kill pretty easily if you start your combo near the edge though).
It is still true when you have to predict the DI, but at the right percents (they can airdodge if you start it too early).

And if you manage to land the boostkick and not whiff it completly then you're still safe to land (or you can aime at the ledge). Worst case is when every hit connects bar the last one, then they're just right next to you, but if you can get all hits, or just the first, they'll fly off far enough for you to land, against most characters.

The best use of the combo I found now is when ZSS gets the first kill, has rage (like 130+), and you get a grab at around 20~25%. Unless you're facing a DDD, they're pretty much dead (some characters like Fox or Sheik will even die because of the base KB of the UpB alone, which is pretty easy to get if you don't misread the complete opposite DI).

But yeah, otherwise the window is definetly smaller. I somewhat find Nair -> Uair -> Uair -> UpB more consistant now, and it works right before the percents where Nair -> Bair starts to kill.

 

[skoolzout1]

I would add to this but I think the above comments pretty much have it covered..

All I can say is it definitley still works, it's really only a good option on FG since most people don't DI and still die and 65 lol..

It is still a good idea however, if you grab near the edge, since they'll be forced to DI to the corner and they'll usually end up dying to the side.. Or like mentioned before, using it after climbing the ladder with platforms.


Ooooo I just remembered. at percents JUST AFTER uair uair UpB is no longer a confirm. You can land up air double jump UpB and its a true combo if you practise the timing.

Don't use training mode counter for practising that though, they can airdodge much much earlier than the training counter shows.

 

[Yumewomiteru]

She still has the u-airs to up b death combo but it's much harder to do now. There are tricks involving using platforms at certain percents to chain together 4 or even 6 u-airs to an upb that will most likely kill.

 

[pichuthedk]

I can concur and understand those above comments, just curious though was my line of thinking correct in some regards? Or am I merely still struck with dread after having an Ike come down and kill me with non spiked dair in a tourney set? XD.

 

[Galaxeon]

just curious though was my line of thinking correct in some regards?

Well, I'm not here to judge of course, it's just my opinion, but : I think you're right when you say it won't kill most of the times, and yes it can be unsafe if you go for and miss.
But I wouldn't say it's useless to go for it. If you succeed, there's no way you can get punished. Now that stacking Uairs doesn't do as much damage, ending with a ~15% damage BoostKick can be crucial to rack up %. (although I think incorporating bairs in our strings is probably our best way to get around the Uair nerfs but that's just my guess for the future)
Also, yeah it stales it, like every move, but I don't think it makes a difference that big. Say you land one and it doesn't kill because nerf + good DI from the opponent, well now they're at 80, so if your next UpB is an OOS one near the ledge, that'll pretty much do it.

I think it depends on your playstyle. More defensive ZSS surely won't go for as many Boost Kick in the air as before because the reward is now a little bit lower and the risk to get punished still exist when you miss, it's safer to try to keep juggling them with Uairs and Bairs. But when you have the lead, especially if you have rage, going for it is good, it's still a viable kill combo and pretty much the last of his kind (RIP MK and Bayo). Not to mention Boost Kick in itself is still a ridiculously good kill move...

 

[Trifroze]

The combo not being as easy to connect and not killing anymore mostly has to do with people learning to DI the dthrow by mixing up their DI to make you have to react, which 100% impossible online, as well as mixing their DI on the uairs and DI'ing the up b correctly so that they don't die off the top. It still works though, there's a roughly 10-15% window for the combo on most characters, more if you leave one uair out later.

Also dthrow -> uair -> fair is good at percents where dthrow -> uair -> uair -> up b becomes unreliable. It does the same damage as dthrow -> uair -> up b but isn't as risky and won't stale an important kill move. If your opponent DIs behind you then dthrow -> uair -> bair of course, but you'll rather want to stale your forward air than your back air.

30% of damage from a grab is still one of the best grab rewards in the game. Even 20% is pretty good when we're speaking of mid percents, believe it or not. And then there's BF and DL. And occasionally SV and T&C and Lylat. And Duck Hunt if people are scared enough to DI towards the tree.

Dthrow to back air I think is also a really underutilized kill option. It works until around 150-180% and kills from 100% onwards in most situations. You have to read whether you opponent airdodges or not, as they don't have enough time to jump away if you go for a back air immediately, but they do have enough time to airdodge. There's plenty of time for it even if they DI completely away. Reacting to their DI from dthrow itself is doable even with meh reaction times, but it's challenging and requires proper focus.

 

[Dr. Tuen]

In addition to all this, the modified version of the combo (nair to up air, up air, boost kick and/or nair to up air, double jump, boost kick) works at percents that exceed their downthrow counterparts. They're a bit tougher to get, but you can hitconfirm the first up air before pursuing further.

I'm personally working on the platform extended combos too, since... I uhhh, never learned them. Those are pretty rad. I'm also trying to learn how to punish air dodges (usually ones that are trying to escape the ladder combo) with flip kick.

Effectively, once someone's in the air, ZSS can turn everything into a really risky 50/50 game. Big misses cost her dearly, but big hits yield stocks. But, at most levels of competition, yielding one or two successes will get your foe into panic mode, and you can punish air dodges from there.