Smash 3DS Did you ever really want Melee physics in the 3DS version given the option?

[WinterShorts]

Because you know, during the early days of the game's development people were wondering how would this affect Melee as a game and people always wanting what Melee had and Brawl "sucked" and yadada.

Despite how people claimed how different it felt playing on a 3DS compared to a Gamecube Controller and with all the horror stories of how people were breaking off circle pads playing Smash 3DS to a competitive level (and before you ask, yes I do remember seeing someone making a post questioning if they were going to include the Melee air dodge to the game during one of Sakurai's Pics of the Day), would you still want Melee physics for Smash 4 (Wavedashing, L-canceling, Wavelanding, the works), even if it meant having the 3DS version to have those same physics with even more of a chance to break your 3DS only to live up to Melee's hype?

This was kind of a "just-wondering" kind of question I thought I might ask. I don't have any intentions to start Flame Wars about "X game is better than Y game". Personally, if you ask me this question, I wouldn't want Melee physics for this kind of console, only means my 3DS would break in less than a month.

 

[CronoT]

While I am a bit happier about the multi-dodge in mid air being brought back, the Law of Unintended Consequences strikes with a vengeance here. Last night I was playing against a very good Kirby player, but it took me some time to figure out how he was doing it.

Shortly after the second match started, I finally saw it: he was abusing the hell out of the mid-air dodge, combined with Kirby's multiple mid-air jumps. So, he was short hopping, mid-air dodge, mid-air jump, mid-air dodge, mid-air jump, repeat over and over again.

So, once I realized what was going on, I decided, "F*** this," SD'd, and left that lobby. One of the things I hated about "Competitive Brawl" was how people manipulated the game engine in ways it wasn't intended to function, and now I'm already seeing it again.

 

[WinterShorts]

While I am a bit happier about the multi-dodge in mid air being brought back, the Law of Unintended Consequences strikes with a vengeance here. Last night I was playing against a very good Kirby player, but it took me some time to figure out how he was doing it.

Shortly after the second match started, I finally saw it: he was abusing the hell out of the mid-air dodge, combined with Kirby's multiple mid-air jumps. So, he was short hopping, mid-air dodge, mid-air jump, mid-air dodge, mid-air jump, repeat over and over again.

So, once I realized what was going on, I decided, "F*** this," SD'd, and left that lobby. One of the things I hated about "Competitive Brawl" was how people manipulated the game engine in ways it wasn't intended to function, and now I'm already seeing it again.

Dang, man. Sorry for those spams. True, the mid-air dodge obviously makes the game reward more defensive play, which is a little bad for the competitive side of Sm4sh. I mean if I were Kirby, I'd lean more towards how Kirby doesn't have landing lag with his down-air and make combos out of it.

 

[Khao]

So, once I realized what was going on, I decided, "F*** this," SD'd, and left that lobby. One of the things I hated about "Competitive Brawl" was how people manipulated the game engine in ways it wasn't intended to function, and now I'm already seeing it again.

Sorry, but how does that relate to "playing the game in a way it wasn't intended"?

It's just dodging multiple times in a row. It might be annoying, but they're not breaking any rules, or glitching the game, or even doing any mechanical exploits. It's literally just dodging multiple times in a row.

 

[ChikoLad]

No, because those physics were buggy and broken. Which worked out OK on a bigger screen, but on a 3DS? Yeeeeeah, no.

In general I don't get why people still ask this "should Smash 4 have had Melee physics?" question in relation to either version. One, because it is never going to happen, and two, because Smash 4 is a game that is, technically, much more polished than Melee, and is it's own unique experience that is still satisfying on it's own merits.

 

[LunarWingCloud]

No.

Seriously, if you want Melee physics, you have Melee AND Project M. Stop shoving your goddamn Melee-riding **** into everything, all I'm saying.

Not saying this directly to anyone, just I hate when people love something too much and shun anything else and insist their thing must be everywhere. It's disgusting. Do you know who I can best compare those kind of Melee fans to? (I say those kind because not all Melee fans are like that and to think so would be ignorance) Genwunners. Full stop. Afraid of change and feel their child must be the be all and end all of their series.

 

[Deleted member]

No. I think the game is fine as it is.

 

[WinterShorts]

@ Khao
@ ChikoLad
@ LunarWingCloud
@Flight
Good to get your responses. Also good to know that you have logic that doesn't come from the nostalgia of melee.

 

[LunarWingCloud]

Don't get me wrong Melee is amazing. I just don't need to see it everywhere.

 

[Deleted member]

@ Khao
@ ChikoLad
@ LunarWingCloud
@Flight
Good to get your responses. Also good to know that you have logic that doesn't come from the nostalgia of melee.

Yep, that's what I think. I see no need to add a Melee mode just to please that game's players that aren't satisfied with Smash 4's speed.

 

[JingleJangleJamil]

I say maybe. The reason I say this is because Smash 4 has a lot of combos, but at the same time it doesn't and combos are pretty short too. I does not really need to have the exact physics, but it would be nice if characters were heavier and suffered more hitstun to be able to do some of those really impressive combos you see in Melee. Another thing that would have been cool to have is Melee airdodges (without making it possible to wavedash) and L-canceling. Smash 4 does not need to be faster, but I think if this game did not allow airdodge spam and let you reduce the amount of landing lag on an aerial if your timing is good enough. *cough* Marth/Lucina's aerials *cough*.

 

[WinterShorts]

Don't get me wrong Melee is amazing. I just don't need to see it everywhere.

Exactly. Ever watched every episode of the Smash Bros. Documentary? Makes for a nice way to tell the background of how Melee started and all of these other players background. What do I absolutley hate about that? The title. If this is a story of how Melee happened, not neccessarily about Smash Bros. as a whole, then it shouldn't have been called what it is now, it should've been called like the Smash Bros. Melee Documentary. With it's current title, I feel like it enforces the opinion of Melee being the one and only and best Smash Bros. game being a fact, and that bugs me a little when every other Smash game should be talked about just as much. That being said, it's only one small thing that proves there's too much Melee to be seen.

Yep, that's what I think. I see no need to add a Melee mode just to please that game's players that aren't satisfied with Smash 4's speed.

Can't sastify everyone, that's a given.

I say maybe. The reason I say this is because Smash 4 has a lot of combos, but at the same time it doesn't and combos are pretty short too. I does not really need to have the exact physics, but it would be nice if characters were heavier and suffered more hitstun to be able to do some of those really impressive combos you see in Melee. Another thing that would have been cnool to have is Melee airdodges (without making it possible to wavedash) and L-canceling. Smash 4 does not need to be faster, but I think if this game did not allow airdodge spam and let you reduce the amount of landing lag on an aerial if your timing is good enough. *cough* Marth/Lucina's aerials *cough*.

True, Marth / Lucina feel different in such a bad way. Less landing lag, that might fix it.

 

[JingleJangleJamil]

Exactly. Ever watched every episode of the Smash Bros. Documentary? Makes for a nice way to tell the background of how Melee started and all of these other players background. What do I absolutley hate about that? The title. If this is a story of how Melee happened, not neccessarily about Smash Bros. as a whole, then it shouldn't have been called what it is now, it should've been called like the Smash Bros. Melee Documentary. With it's current title, I feel like it enforces the opinion of Melee being the one and only and best Smash Bros. game being a fact, and that bugs me a little when every other Smash game should be talked about just as much. That being said, it's only one small thing that proves there's too much Melee to be seen.

I don't want to go too off topic, but IMO the name is fine. As far as I know competitive Smash did not really start until Melee. Sure, there probably was tournaments and some form of competitive play back then, but I am not so sure the community was really there.

 

[chuckthesmashlover]

Smash 4 has Smash 4 physics. Melee has Melee physics. They're completely different games.

 

[PixelPerfect]

No, I'm fine with what we got plus, trying to perform some of the Melee ATs on a 3DS would be frustrating and even more people would have broken circle pads.

 

[JingleJangleJamil]

No, I'm fine with what we got plus, trying to perform some of the Melee ATs on a 3DS would be frustrating and even more people would have broken circle pads.

I only have the 3DS version, but that does not really matter since a majority of competitive are playing the Wii U version.

 

[Ness Gymrae]

I think the game is good. but I miss how FAST melee was. IF nintendo makes a dlc (not mewtwo) that adds new characters (still want roy in smash 4 dlc) and stages, they should add that speed and 'L' Canceling.

 

[Maysoon]

I said yes, I don't mind that we don't have Wave dashing and L-Canceling, the game is just too slow for me, despite them having Sonic or not. The game rewards defensive play so much to the point where it just makes the game feel boring and frustrating when it shouldn't. When I play my friend offline, if I am about to three stock him, he abuses the multi-airdodge, rolling, etc so it becomes a chore to hit him. Basically, make the game faster and all will be good.

 

[RobinOnDrugs]

No.

I'd much rather have shields, knockback, and the like be nerfed than just introduce Melee physics. I'd much rather let Sm4sh be its own thing to be honest.

 

[Shin Chie]

No not really at all.
I like Smash 4's physics more than Melee's personally.

 

[Flawed]

No, but they could really learn a bit from going back to melee and looking at the physics and tweaking Smash 4s.

I remember Prog saying "We're trying to combo from throws" during the exhibition tournament. Its like they said "I've got it! They like combos from throws! Lets make that the main way of combos for 90% of the game!"

 

[JingleJangleJamil]

A lot of these people are saying no, but when they explain why, they sound like they are pretty much saying maybe.

 

[LancerStaff]

Not in the slightest. Call me a hater, but I don't think Melee's physics did a good job at all. If you're not a hardcore gamer, it feels like you're constantly fighting the mechanics with the absurd gravity. Dodges were absolutely useless and things feel incredibly stiff because buffering doesn't exist. It works as a competitive game I suppose, but it feels more like a typical fighter then Smash because of the high frequency of imputs. Modern Smash works quite nicely on the 3DS, although I wish there were separate tilt and smash buttons to help with the somewhat imprecise circle pad.

Also, gotta commend Smashboards for not making the whole topic go to hell halfway down the first page.

 

[Ness Gymrae]

I play project M and Melee all the time, but I am used to their speed. Don't get me wrong, but smash 4 on 3ds is amazing. I think on the next update there has to be the increased speed. but to make it fair, there should be a setting to make the speed change work. like it or not.

 

[WaterDemonBaku]

From my point of view, I would somewhat like the idea of being able to at least toggle the physics in matches with friends and when playing solo, maybe an online mode dedicated to it.

Although I probably wouldn't like it if it was the only choice, as in, it changes to Melee physics completely. People have told me (not from Smashboards,) that they would like the 3DS (and Wii U) to just be bumped up to Melee physics only, but that leaves everyone new to the game in the dust because I sure as heck didn't know what a SHFFL was when I first rented the game when I was a kid, and I'm pretty sure all of the young (and the few old) players would know.

I think the physics could do some damage to the 3DS, not to much but still some, as my GC controllers have taken a beating after the endless amount of hours I've put into Melee. Tho I think one of the main reasons Circle pads break might be due to age. The 3DS was released nearly 4 years ago, so maybe it's just the old models with the circle pads breaking? Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, it's just a thought I've had.

Overall, I think the physics are fine as they are. But I wouldn't mind Melee physics as long as we have a choice.

 

[WinterShorts]

I can't beieve I missed all these posts. Stupid Smashboards notifier...

I think the game is good. but I miss how FAST melee was. IF nintendo makes a dlc (not mewtwo) that adds new characters (still want roy in smash 4 dlc) and stages, they should add that speed and 'L' Canceling.

L-canceling I definitley agree with. They did it even in the first smash game, and that aspect could really change the speed. Kind of like what Mew2king said after the Smash Invitiational that the game would improve dramatically if there is less landing lag.

No.

I'd much rather have shields, knockback, and the like be nerfed than just introduce Melee physics. I'd much rather let Sm4sh be its own thing to be honest.

Assuming it's not simply a Brawl clone, but I think the game(s) have done enough to prove that it's not.

No not really at all.
I like Smash 4's physics more than Melee's personally.

That's cool. I can respect an opinion.

Not in the slightest. Call me a hater, but I don't think Melee's physics did a good job at all. If you're not a hardcore gamer, it feels like you're constantly fighting the mechanics with the absurd gravity. Dodges were absolutely useless and things feel incredibly stiff because buffering doesn't exist. It works as a competitive game I suppose, but it feels more like a typical fighter then Smash because of the high frequency of imputs. Modern Smash works quite nicely on the 3DS, although I wish there were separate tilt and smash buttons to help with the somewhat imprecise circle pad.

Also, gotta commend Smashboards for not making the whole topic go to hell halfway down the first page.

Well for one thing, let's be fair. If dodges were nerfed or useless, then that would support more aggresive play which is good.
If it felt like a typical fighter, then I'd think it would feel less "free", you know? In traditional fighters the fighters always are in the direction they're supposed to be in and usually combos are kind of like "press this button, then press this button". With the engine of Melee, you can at least get more creative with what you do in terms of moves (That is if you're one of the top 8 characters or your a majestic god like aMSa ). I'll agree with your last sentence. You seem to be logical of what Nintendo was thinking when implying Smash physics to the 3DS.

I play project M and Melee all the time, but I am used to their speed. Don't get me wrong, but smash 4 on 3ds is amazing. I think on the next update there has to be the increased speed. but to make it fair, there should be a setting to make the speed change work. like it or not.

#WeNeedLCancelingDammit

 

[WinterShorts]

From my point of view, I would somewhat like the idea of being able to at least toggle the physics in matches with friends and when playing solo, maybe an online mode dedicated to it.

Although I probably wouldn't like it if it was the only choice, as in, it changes to Melee physics completely. People have told me (not from Smashboards,) that they would like the 3DS (and Wii U) to just be bumped up to Melee physics only, but that leaves everyone new to the game in the dust because I sure as heck didn't know what a SHFFL was when I first rented the game when I was a kid, and I'm pretty sure all of the young (and the few old) players would know.

I think the physics could do some damage to the 3DS, not to much but still some, as my GC controllers have taken a beating after the endless amount of hours I've put into Melee. Tho I think one of the main reasons Circle pads break might be due to age. The 3DS was released nearly 4 years ago, so maybe it's just the old models with the circle pads breaking? Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, it's just a thought I've had.

Overall, I think the physics are fine as they are. But I wouldn't mind Melee physics as long as we have a choice.

IKR?

I didn't start competitive Smash Bros. like all the Melee lovers out there. Me and my brother we're playing Brawl not knowing it was a defensive slow game and then knew the mechanics from the majority of Smash games from there. It's only logical if a player were to start smaller to bigger and bigger and now a professional instead of going from beginner all the way to pro in a single step. I kind of translated my PM experience onto whatever I did in Melee as a Falco person, and that took a while and a couple laggy wifi matches to understand only almost everything.

Also, I remember getting my regular 3DS on Christmas of 2011 and it still works fine without a circle pad broken. I wouldn't say age, just major and endless amounts of playing vigorously.

 

[WaterDemonBaku]

IKR?

I didn't start competitive Smash Bros. like all the Melee lovers out there. Me and my brother we're playing Brawl not knowing it was a defensive slow game and then knew the mechanics from the majority of Smash games from there. It's only logical if a player were to start smaller to bigger and bigger and now a professional instead of going from beginner all the way to pro in a single step. I kind of translated my PM experience onto whatever I did in Melee as a Falco person, and that took a while and a couple laggy wifi matches to understand only almost everything.

Also, I remember getting my regular 3DS on Christmas of 2011 and it still works fine without a circle pad broken. I wouldn't say age, just major and endless amounts of playing vigorously.

All those years I wondered why exactly Melee was so hard and a year later I felt like a giant idiot.. XP

Yea the age was just a small thought. Smash is more than likely causing circle pads to break. I don't really see much of a need to mash the circle pad in even the most intense situations. (Unless you're on For Glory and A Ness player keeps spamming PK thunder and it sends You Off The TOp OF THe STAge EVERY FREAKING TIME AND YOU TRY TO AVOID IT BUT IT DOESN'T WORK ANYWAY)

I kinda actually expected the circle pads to break when I first saw the 3DS. I remember thinking, "It's so freaking small, that thing could pop off any second." Then with the newer models like the 2DS and 3DSXL, I thought that issue was abolished. I think it was, because I have yet to find any form of post anywhere on the web showing a 2DS or a 3DSXL with a broken circle pad yet.

 

[WinterShorts]

All those years I wondered why exactly Melee was so hard and a year later I felt like a giant idiot.. XP

Yea the age was just a small thought. Smash is more than likely causing circle pads to break. I don't really see much of a need to mash the circle pad in even the most intense situations. (Unless you're on For Glory and A Ness player keeps spamming PK thunder and it sends You Off The TOp OF THe STAge EVERY FREAKING TIME AND YOU TRY TO AVOID IT BUT IT DOESN'T WORK ANYWAY)

I kinda actually expected the circle pads to break when I first saw the 3DS. I remember thinking, "It's so freaking small, that thing could pop off any second." Then with the newer models like the 2DS and 3DSXL, I thought that issue was abolished. I think it was, because I have yet to find any form of post anywhere on the web showing a 2DS or a 3DSXL with a broken circle pad yet.

We've all been there before. Also, PK Thunder was your problem? B**ch please, PK Fire is literally all the hell and rage. You shield, you get grabbed. You don't shield, you're stuck, and you get grabbed. It's one of the most annoying small combos in ANY Smash game and as a PM Bowser main it's the bane of my existance.

 

[WaterDemonBaku]

We've all been there before. Also, PK Thunder was your problem? B**ch please, PK Fire is literally all the hell and rage. You shield, you get grabbed. You don't shield, you're stuck, and you get grabbed. It's one of the most annoying small combos in ANY Smash game and as a PM Bowser main it's the bane of my existance.

I think I had a problem with PK Thunder mainly because of Kirby. He's lightweight and I was too dumb to dodge it, or I dodged it the first time but wasn't smart enough to dodge again when they brought it around. Mainly my idiocy led me to hate the move.

Oh and OH MY LARD FRIGGING PK FIRE OH MY GOD I HEAR NESS SCREAM THAT IN MY SLEEP T-T It's literally should just be called Hell's Fury.

 

[WinterShorts]

I think I had a problem with PK Thunder mainly because of Kirby. He's lightweight and I was too dumb to dodge it, or I dodged it the first time but wasn't smart enough to dodge again when they brought it around. Mainly my idiocy led me to hate the move.

Oh and OH MY LARD FRIGGING PK FIRE OH MY GOD I HEAR NESS SCREAM THAT IN MY SLEEP T-T It's literally should just be called Hell's Fury.

XD

 

[Chez G.]

If given the option, sure I would take Melee physics for Sm4sh 3DS. However, it might not be completely necessary. If the game universally had less lag on ground and aerial moves and defensive options like rolling or shielding were toned down, Smash 4 might even rival Melee, minus the ATs.

 

[Soul.]

Game's fine. There's no need to make it play like Melee.

 

[PCHU]

Melee physics sounds like it would heavily impair a lot of characters, but that depends on what all you're talking about.
I know that heavies get juggled ridiculously easily already, not to mention the few characters that move as if everything they throw out is pre-l-canceled would be all over the place even more than they already are.
If we're talking higher (proportional) hitstun, higher gravity, powershielding reflecting projectiles and actually being tough to execute, ONE airdodge, and the ability to l-cancel...
I dunno; it'd fix the issues I have with projectiles and unsafe properly spaced aerials, making the game less tedious, but the way a lot of these characters work benefits them more in a floatier system, and the game would just feel wrong.

I'd rather just have a Melee port; Smash 4's system is whacky, but Melee physics won't "fix" the problems people have with it.
They just need to give some of the lower characters a boost without needing to rely on custom moves; I'm all for working to complete a game, but I don't see why one character should naturally excel at pretty much everything in comparison to another.

 

[Tino]

I like Sm4sh the way it is. Melee and Sm4sh are two different games.

 

[Ryusuta]

No, no. There's already Melee (and to a different extent, Project M) if I want to play those games. I like the feel of Smash 4 as it is. It's a very nice middle ground between Melee and Brawl and I think that's where it should be.

 

[WinterShorts]

If given the option, sure I would take Melee physics for Sm4sh 3DS. However, it might not be completely necessary. If the game universally had less lag on ground and aerial moves and defensive options like rolling or shielding were toned down, Smash 4 might even rival Melee, minus the ATs.

but I think if this game did not allow airdodge spam and let you reduce the amount of landing lag on an aerial if your timing is good enough. *cough* Marth/Lucina's aerials *cough*.

L. Can. Cel. Ing.

Game's fine. There's no need to make it play like Melee.

I like Sm4sh the way it is. Melee and Sm4sh are two different games.

These guys right here: They say the games are different, not worse. Let's understand that please.

Melee physics sounds like it would heavily impair a lot of characters, but that depends on what all you're talking about.
I know that heavies get juggled ridiculously easily already, not to mention the few characters that move as if everything they throw out is pre-l-canceled would be all over the place even more than they already are.
If we're talking higher (proportional) hitstun, higher gravity, powershielding reflecting projectiles and actually being tough to execute, ONE airdodge, and the ability to l-cancel...
I dunno; it'd fix the issues I have with projectiles and unsafe properly spaced aerials, making the game less tedious, but the way a lot of these characters work benefits them more in a floatier system, and the game would just feel wrong.

I'd rather just have a Melee port; Smash 4's system is whacky, but Melee physics won't "fix" the problems people have with it.
They just need to give some of the lower characters a boost without needing to rely on custom moves; I'm all for working to complete a game, but I don't see why one character should naturally excel at pretty much everything in comparison to another.

That last sentence right there: Melee's not balanced. Good you understand that. I would also agree with the fact that we could use another Melee port. One with like a For Glory mode system or something. Though, I don't know what Nintendo would do with it if they're not going to embrace the competitive community.

 

[Ness Gymrae]

L. Can. Cel. Ing.
That last sentence right there: Melee's not balanced. Good you understand that. I would also agree with the fact that we could use another Melee port. One with like a For Glory mode system or something. Though, I don't know what Nintendo would do with it if they're not going to embrace the competitive community.

Agree with you there. Nintendo needs to step it up. Add the option to choose competitive game play online if anyone wants to. and even add an option for melee/Project M speed or default speed.

 

[VentusNeos]

Perfect pivots are fine. I feel like we don't really need Wavedashing or wavelanding returning. Maybe a more punishable air dodge, but I digress on that. I would however, Like to see L-canceling, and only L-canceling added in imo.

 

[WinterShorts]

For as much good logical things I like people are saying right now, I'm not sure if we're now talking about Smash 4 overall with Melee physics, not limited to the 3DS version. Don't want to turn this into a Smash 4 vs. Melee topic since I think, and so should like 70% of you, both games are equal in amounts of fun and competitive viability and are just different games in the franchise. Just want to make sure we're not going down that route.