• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

Did Marth ruin Smash?

Status
Not open for further replies.

pikachu9999

Banned via Warnings
Joined
Jun 20, 2019
Messages
33
So, there have been so many people saying that sword characters have ruined Smash. It mainly comes from the Fire Emblem characters, and most of the playable FE characters play similarly to Marth (exceptions being Ike, Robin and Corrin), not to mention the large presence of sword users in the game. So, is Marth behind the whole "too many swordies" thing, or are people overexaggerating?
 
Last edited:

LoZ00

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 11, 2015
Messages
362
Location
Italy
Marth isn't the source of this problem, at least in my opinion. In fact, when he was introduced, we were in need of a "light" swordsman. I'd rather say that it was all due to two circumstances that we got "too many swordies":
  1. Marth clones are "low-effort, high-reward" kind of characters. What I mean is that they basically are all very important characters that may easily share the fighting style. So, if it is anyone's fault, it should be of Roy in the first place, as he was the first Marth clone.
  2. We don't only have too many FE characters, but rather, too many "anime" fighters. But this may be due to the fact that they are mostly third parties that have a deep relationship with Nintendo and are very important in the history of gaming. So we got many of them in the last two installments and, coupled with the upswing of many "anime" series from Nintendo (Kid Icarus, Xenoblade, FE itself), led to two Smash games that feature many "anime" swordsmen, unlike the previous ones. This, in my opinion, lead to many players to think that later iterations of the series lost the original charm. I'd say that we can hardly cut one of these swordsmen because they all mean a lot to Smash in general.
 

Crystanium

Smash Hero
Joined
Apr 28, 2008
Messages
5,921
Location
California
Marth is fine. His clone compadres are not. And Corrin is a problem, too. Who wanted him? I heard he wasn't a popular character among FE fans. I wouldn't lose sleep or shed a tear if most of them were removed. Then again, that's how I feel about overrepresented characters in general.
 

Grie

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Nov 30, 2018
Messages
94
the problem originated from sm4sh where there where like what, 5 anime style characters in base game and 3 in dlc more than every other smash game. Then again the amount of cartoon platformer mascots trumped that number even after the fact so in short hypocrisy can come from really weird places (at least in the opinion of an fe shill that is so take that argument for what you will).
 

Opossum

Thread Title Changer
BRoomer
Joined
Aug 10, 2011
Messages
34,177
Location
This Thread
NNID
OpossumGuy
3DS FC
4742-4911-3431
Switch FC
SW 2859 6322 5208
It's amazing the lengths some people go to to attempt to justify hating on Fire Emblem. :rolleyes:
 

Opossum

Thread Title Changer
BRoomer
Joined
Aug 10, 2011
Messages
34,177
Location
This Thread
NNID
OpossumGuy
3DS FC
4742-4911-3431
Switch FC
SW 2859 6322 5208
I'm not hating FE.
I wasn't talking about you specifically lol.

To answer the question you posted though, I don't think so. Marth's general moveset is just really well-designed where it can be decent at worst in basically every Smash game. Fox is similar in this regard, and kinda-sorta Pikachu as well. Fox was at his worst in Brawl and Marth is at his worst in Ultimate, but they are still very much usable in those games due to the moveset design itself. Melee Pikachu is a bit more contentious but over all it follows the same sort of game plan of solid moveset design.
 

THE SLOTH

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 22, 2019
Messages
208
Switch FC
SW-6683-7510-3712
I personally don't hate swordies or FE characters in general, it's the Marth clones that I personally have a problem with. Ike, Robin, Corrin, and Marth himself are great FE reps with unique movesets and attributes, that's all good and well. And a clone or two don't hurt, most of the other franchises with big character pools in Smash (Mario, Pokemon, even Zelda to a lesser extent) have a clone of the most prominent character from that series. So what else do we got?

Roy? Inverts Marth's tipper mechanic, has fire attacks on his sword, and despite sharing specials, they and his other normal moves have slightly/completely different animations and functions, putting him on the border of echo and semi-clone territory, solid character. Good example of taking a preexisting character and building off of it to make something unique, almost like Luigi... what? Another clone character? Um... okay, let's hear it, then.

Lucina, neutralizes Marth's tipper mechanic for more consistency, and... shares the same specials, attack animations, etc. I won't undersell that changing the tipper mechanic does change the function of these moves to a degree, but there isn't the same amount of flair or uniqueness that Roy had. While things like Counter and Dancing Blade are almost one-for-one the same among the three, compare, say, Marth's Jab to Roy's and Lucina's. Marth's is two swings of his sword, covering a circular area in front and slightly above him. Roy swings his blade with a revers grip in a single movement, covering an area right in front of him. Lucina's is... almost a carbon copy of Marth's. You get where I'm going here?

And then we get to Chrom, who does it a little better, and a little worse?? Let me try to explain myself. He's an echo fighter of Roy, which is kinda weird when you think of it, an echo fighter of a clone character. Anywho, Chrom is an echo of Roy, and is to Roy as Lucina is to Marth, neutralizing his reverse-tipper. And like Lucina, he shares the problem of basically copy-pasting most, if not all of Roy's attacking animations, just removing the fire for some kind of wind/bluster effect with no variation or new animation. And on top of that, instead of Roy's up special modified, he has Ike's up special, for some reason? I mean, bonus points for having one move to distinguish himself from his originator, but then that drags Ike into this echo mess as well.

My point is, having a lot of FE characters/anime swordsman on the roster is fine with me, like how we have a lot of Mario or Pokemon characters. What's not fine to me is 4/7 of our representatives sharing almost the exact same framework. If we're going to have these many echos of Marth, I'd rather they at least do something more to distinguish their self from Marth like Roy does, with slightly different normals/aerials to make him actually feel somewhat unique. Either that, or I'd rather we cut out some of the fat, or at the very least, put one of the other unique FE characters into the copy machine, I'm sure Marth would be happy to not be the one stuck under it almost every game since his debut.

Reading the OP again I realize only now this isn't exactly what was being brought up, but uh... close enough? Sorry about that. Hope someone can find some value in the points brought up here.
 
Last edited:

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

Flap and Swish~
Premium
Joined
Aug 13, 2001
Messages
34,469
Location
Cull Hazard
NNID
Irene4
3DS FC
1203-9265-8784
Switch FC
SW-7567-8572-3791
Anti-Complaint threads are no less rant threads. It has been locked, as the topic will no doubt get worse. It's quite well aware a lot of "sword complaints" lead to tons of arguing. So we're not going to let it break into that.

Thank you for your time. :)
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom