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DI - Momentum Canceling

saberhof

Smash Master
Joined
Jun 6, 2006
Messages
3,405
Location
Mexico-Tijuana
Well i have been searching through all of the diddy boards, and i even used the search bar...

and well i would like to know what specific moves i should be doing to live out at high %´s, and maybe some tips on how to practice this...i have no partner to help me out...

Thats pretty much it, and if there is already a thread specific about this, please link me :D
 

FelixTrix

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 19, 2009
Messages
410
Location
WA
bair/fastfall and then JUMP. you'll probably need to side b afterwards.
 

saberhof

Smash Master
Joined
Jun 6, 2006
Messages
3,405
Location
Mexico-Tijuana
sounds easy...ill remember those moves...

so, how do i practice this? or is this just something i have to practice with someone??
 

Player-1

Smash Legend
Joined
Apr 27, 2008
Messages
12,186
Location
Rainbow Cruise
according to the japanese, airdodge is 3 frames faster because you can airdodge out of knockback before you can with an aerial
 

saberhof

Smash Master
Joined
Jun 6, 2006
Messages
3,405
Location
Mexico-Tijuana
according to the japanese, airdodge is 3 frames faster because you can airdodge out of knockback before you can with an aerial
So, Airdodge>Jump?


Just play a lot and use the appropriate moves when you get hit. It's something you'll get better at the more you play.
And thank you Ingulit, i am practicing, but it isn't as easy as it sounds apparently
 

Count

Smash Champion
Joined
Mar 11, 2008
Messages
2,454
Location
St. Louis, Missouri
I used to just have a buddy hit me and then I would try to di accordingly...or if i was playing a friend I would SD anytime I didn't use bair to momentum cancel. I used to airdodge until everybody was like OMG USE BAIR, and now airdodge is supposively better. lollll
 

Luigi player

Smash Master
Joined
Jul 29, 2004
Messages
4,106
Location
Austria
These tests are not perfect (and done in training mode)! I don't have the tools to test this frame by frame, so they are probably not 100 % correct, but they should come pretty close.


Momentum cancelling if you're hit horizontally:

MK is on left side of FD (roll to edge).
Diddy to the right of him (roll into MK on the edge to get near enough).

MK does dsmash


No DI; Diddy won't die off the top, but to the (right) side.


180 %
survives with airdodge->smashsideB
survives with airdodge->jump->sideB
survives with bair->smashsideB
survives with bair->jump->smashsideB

181 %
survives with airdodge->smashsideB (survives without the need to hold left)
survives with airdodge->jump->sideB (survives without the need to hold left)
survives with bair->smashsideB (survives without the need to hold left)
survives with bair->jump->smashsideB (survives without the need to hold left)

182 %
survives with airdodge->smashsideB (survives without the need to hold left)
survives with airdodge->jump->sideB (survives without the need to hold left)
survives with bair->smashsideB (after/during sideB you need hold left, else you won't survive)
survives with bair->jump->smashsideB (survives without the need to hold left)

183 %
survives with airdodge->smashsideB (after/during sideB you need hold left, else you won't survive)
survives with airdodge->jump->sideB (after/during sideB you need hold left, else you won't survive)

184 %
won't survive


Other stuff:

With no momentumcancel Diddy would die at 154 %.

The doublejump does help a bit against horizontal momentum:
161 % - survives with airdodge->hold left [won't survive at 162 %]
171 % - survives with airdodge->doublejump (+hold left) [won't survive at 172 %]



Momentum cancelling if you're hit up:

Falco does an upsmash; no DI

119 % - won't survive without momentum cancel (at 118 % Diddy survives)

125 % - can survive with nair (fastfalled, of course)
126 % - survives with any fastfalled aerial (except nair?)

DI to the direction Falco faces

129 % - survives (with fastfalled aerial, maybe not nair)

DI behind Falco

136 % - survives (with fastfalled aerial, maybe not nair)

(seems like dair really doesn't change much (you activate your fastfall 1 frame faster with dair))



If you're DIing to one of the top corners momentum cancelling get's a bit more tricky.
Last time I tested it was a long time ago so I'm not too sure anymore how it was...

but I think that this was the best method...:


bair (fastfalled)->wait a little bit (so you won't die off the top because of a little momentumboost from sideB/doublejump)->(smash)sideB


EDIT: alright, I searched for my old testings and found the post:

But I noticed something... if you get hit into a top corner and bair +fastfall then double jump I died immediately after using the DJ, but when I waited a little bit before using the DJ I survived (without the double jump and only a dair or bair+fastfall I died). I also survived using fair(&fastfall) and then DJ, you just have a wait a little bit before double jumping... the thing with dair is, it has so much ending lag that if you DJ after it immediately you'll survive.
And you only die from bair+DJ, because you DJ too early.
I could also survive with airdodge+fastfall and dj, but I also had to wait a little bit before DJing or else I died. (this testing was done at 160 % (middle of FD, MK did dsmash on Diddy (training mode)); I ALWAYS held up on the controlstick while getting hit)

At a bit later % (165)... you can't survive with airdodge then fastfall and DJ. No matter what I did I always died.

I could survive with dair+dj and bair+fastfall+wait a bit + dj and with bair+fastfall+sideB.

At 171 % I couldn't survive with dair because it has too much ending lag. But I could survive with bair+fastfall+waitjustalittlebit+sideB (DJ KOd me). It was also possible to survive with fair+fastfall+DJ+sideB...

172 % I could also survive with bair+fastfall+waitjustalittlebit+sideB, fair had too much ending lag.
 

Vega4

Smash Ace
Joined
May 23, 2010
Messages
552
Thanks for all that info Luigi Player.

Lately I have had one doubt:
If jump helps you to survive when you are hit horizontally (I guess it's because it makes trajectory longer, and also helps to destroy hitsun), Diddy side B wouldn't help you if you are hit vertically?? I mean, it woult make the trajectory longer... has someone tested this? Maybe something like Bair (with fast fall), SideB and fast fall; or Dair, SideB and fast fall...

I have this doubt because it could sounds a little logical, but currently I haven't see any top Diddy player using this when they are hit vertically...
 

Player-1

Smash Legend
Joined
Apr 27, 2008
Messages
12,186
Location
Rainbow Cruise
all special moves increase your momentum, since side-b already moves your body horizontally it will cancel it out, but it actually moves vertically a bit so that combines with increase momentum will send you more up
 

Vega4

Smash Ace
Joined
May 23, 2010
Messages
552
all special moves increase your momentum, since side-b already moves your body horizontally it will cancel it out, but it actually moves vertically a bit so that combines with increase momentum will send you more up
I would like to test it, but I guess that u are right since in tournament top Diddys never use this...
 
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