DH Match-ups

[Grimmdark2140]

I didn't see a thread for people to share their experiences with match ups. So you duck hunt mains and players tell your stories with duck hunt when playing for glory or with other people.

I guess i'll start with pac-man. While I've only fought only fought a few pac-mans, this is a fun match. It feels even in my opinion. Both pac-man and DH have strong zoning games. Although DH has a stronger zoning game because of his projectiles and long disjointed smashes. pac-man has a faster aerials and his main projectile has different properties that he can select at will. So I had to remember what each projectile did so I could react to it accordingly. Thought the main ones to look out for are the galaxian, and the key. The can and wild gunman can protect from the projectiles but I have had a key hit me through them. A pac-man will always deploy his fire hydrant. They will camp behind it or use it as a projectile. I always end up using it against them. Your side b travel far enough hit pac-man as he stands on his hydrant and charging his bonus fruit making him stop to get out of the way. I then use that time to get closer to the hydrant. I knock pac-man away and f-tilt the hydrant twice sending it back at them. The hydrant has 12 hit points and a fresh f-tilt does 8% so it takes two uses. I did this so much that a pac-man stopped using the fire hydrant. Only thing I had trouble with this match up is dealing with pac-man's recovery. His side b is hard to punish when its coming at you. Though you can hit the big pellet to stop it from coming out. I can't remember everything about this match up due to that i'm not sure what all pac-man can do to you.

 

[Mewtario]

If you plan on establishing your zones by standing at the end of a stage, a competent Little Mac can wreck you by traveling over your clay pigeons and under your cans too quickly for you to get them out there or correct their positions, via Little Mac's side-B! But at the same time, an incompetent Little Mac can overshoot you along with the rest of your projectiles with this attack and fall right off the edge of the stage to his doom!

We'll need to develop a strategy against this so that when Little Mac mains stop overshooting the edge of the stage, we will be ready to keep the destroyer that is Little Mac at a safe distance from the aircraft carrier that is Duck Hunt (Duo).

 

[Spudboy]

If you plan on establishing your zones by standing at the end of a stage, a competent Little Mac can wreck you by traveling over your clay pigeons and under your cans too quickly for you to get them out there or correct their positions, via Little Mac's side-B! But at the same time, an incompetent Little Mac can overshoot you along with the rest of your projectiles with this attack and fall right off the edge of the stage to his doom!

We'll need to develop a strategy against this so that when Little Mac mains stop overshooting the edge of the stage, we will be ready to keep the destroyer that is Little Mac at a safe distance from the aircraft carrier that is Duck Hunt (Duo).

The thing is that if they're approaching with Mac's side-B, we should be able to just grab and toss them off the edge, potentially for a gimp. Beating Mac is all about grabbing him by the edge of the stage, I think.

 

[SyncNatsyu]

The thing is that if they're approaching with Mac's side-B, we should be able to just grab and toss them off the edge, potentially for a gimp. Beating Mac is all about grabbing him by the edge of the stage, I think.

not as easy as that sounds. The macs in their respective discussion threads have seen this plenty and are well aware of how to counter it. Or at least know not to fall for it. For most chars without proj. mac can just stand in the center, he doesn't need to come to you.

Though since this is DHD I'd imagine he'd have to approach. However they are still gonna watch for any throw attempts so best be careful there.(they tend to excel in baits, well good LMs anywho)

 

[Grimmdark2140]

I more worried about sonic than little mac(not to say little mac ain't dangerous). I find that sonic's speed is too much for our favorite duo. He can just get in too quick for DH to set up correctly and zone him out. I figure we need some strategies for the annoying hedgehog. I remember that I couldn't even get my can out correctly before sonic was in my face.

 

[Mewtario]

I more worried about sonic than little mac(not to say little mac ain't dangerous). I find that sonic's speed is too much for our favorite duo. He can just get in too quick for DH to set up correctly and zone him out. I figure we need some strategies for the annoying hedgehog. I remember that I couldn't even get my can out correctly before sonic was in my face.

Little Mac and Sonic can probably have two different modifications off of a similar base metagame skeleton, since our chief problem with both of them is that they whiz straight through our defenses before we can properly establish our zones. The difference will come in with the fact that Sonic is considerably better in the air than Little Mac is and Little Mac is considerably better on the ground.


Something noteworthy about DHD, too, is that larger enemies make for easier targets to hit from a distance with projectiles (less precision needed on the can to intercept them in mid-air, more hits can be taken with a fast-flying clay pigeon being shot at, etc.), and their slow speed makes them easier to keep at a safe distance so as to feel the full brunt of the duo's glorious arsenal!


A small note about our anti-Lucario metagame, too: even a relatively uncharged forward smash from Duck Hunt has enough range where if Lucario counters (double team, down B, whichever term you prefer to use for this attack) the third shot (the farthest one from the pair) while facing the duo's direction at low or even medium damage (say, up to 50 HP or so I think), Lucario's animation actually won't start out far enough in pair's direction to hurt the dog and duck! The duo is outside of the attack's hit box!

 

[Rosco]

I've found Palutena was one of the hardest opponents for my DHD game to get around and I'm thankful for the Palutena player I ran into in FG that stomped me and showed me that shortcoming. Generally, I can get around reflectors and shields by using off beat can and pidge timing, but her slow push reflector was catching me off guard. Coupled with it also keeping away my close assault game and I realized I needed to rethink my approaches and start using bombing runs against her.

LM, I've found, isn't that hard. Though it's more about out-thinking the generally direct approach that LM has. Forward roll and Side Smash has been an opener against LM more often than not for me, and the air pop the smash causes lets me establish my buffer zones as needed.

 

[Jigglymaster]

Can I ask what to do against Luigi? I fought one on for glory and he shut me down with just his fireballs. Luigi's fireballs destroy the clay pigeon and constantly immobilize the can. Basically the can can't be shot at for a short amount of time if the opponent hits it and it will start travelling in the opposite direction too, meaning I have to hit it myself so it goes back to him, except his fireballs never let me do that ever. If I set the can over top of the fireballs he just shields it and keeps throwing fireballs. The gunman is also destroyed by the fire balls. In other words, he pretty much causes a stalemate and the loser has to approach.

 

[DavemanCozy]

The gunman is also destroyed by the fire balls.

Try this: Set up the gunman, move in front of your gunman. You are now between your gunman (behind you) and Luigi (in front). You can now act as a shield for your gunman using your own shield to cover him from fireballs. The Gunman's bullets don't hurt you: use this to your advantage as a way to approach when at moderate distance from your opponent.

 

[Salival]

that actually seems like a really good idea.

 

[Rosco]

I generally do bombing runs against people projectile countering. Take to the skies and rain canny glory down upon them. Also works for low hovering Peaches.

 

[Maniacmatt]

Aside from the already mentioned Rosalina, the toughest matchup I've had with DHD is Robin. The only times in For Glory that I've gone to Sudden Death is against him/her. Both characters are so range-oriented and Robin's fire is able to keep me from using DHD's mid range options. Any suggestions?

 

[Funkermonster]

How would Mario fare against DHD. Had trouble fighting one once, if mainly just because of his cape and Dthrow combos.

 

[Jigglymaster]

Aside from the already mentioned Rosalina, the toughest matchup I've had with DHD is Robin. The only times in For Glory that I've gone to Sudden Death is against him/her. Both characters are so range-oriented and Robin's fire is able to keep me from using DHD's mid range options. Any suggestions?

Robin has limits to his/her projectiles, you don't. Take that into consideration and just out camp them. The wild gunman can save you from a lot of Robin's projectiles and yeah. I've had a friend of mine who plays robin who generally complains about that and I can understand why.

 

[Viking]

I wish i saw this post earlier. i just went 2-12 to a robin. it was really tough at first but i did use the wild gunman to get out of robins stuff alot. but i think i went more aggressive then i should have.

 

[Mr. Johan]

Robin has to wait 11 seconds at the most to get his projectiles back, but that's probably enough time to get some meaningful damage in.

I doubt I've been playing good Duck Hunts, but I've never really felt threatened by Hogan's Alley Can or the Wild Gunmen. HAC doesn't go as far and fast as I'd expect with each shot, and waiting behind Wild Gunman gives him an opportunity to charge Thunder up to Arc or Thoron and wait for the "HAA" that Gunman screams to shield. I'd like to fight some Duck Hunts to prove me wrong with those two, but I think the Clay Pigeon is your best projectile against Robin. Goes right through Thunder, over Elthunder and I think Thoron, and typically can get over ArcFire provided the fireball's already on its way to the ground, and the damage output that thing carries when its fired at forces Robin to respect it and react to it. But in my experience, the projectile war between the two just comes to a stalemate - Thoron can get a chunk of percent (and kill at 145 percent. Be extra careful with your projectile setups when you're at and above that threshold) if the Duck Hunt gets careless regardless if Gunman's there or not, but Robin has to wait for 5-6 seconds at the earliest to get another Thoron ready to go, and Duck Hunt's projectiles, while not setting any speed records, can be used in conjunction with one another and get the drop on Robin every now and then, provided he doesn't have an Arcthunder charged up or an Arcfire to hit one of the projectiles and form an electric/fall wall for a second to stop the other two.

If you're feeling overwhelmed by Thoron, just keep throwing projectiles. The charge resets back to Arcthunder if Robin shields, rolls, or spotdodges, meaning he has to wait the full two seconds to charge back up.

Robin can also catch his discarded tomes and Levin Sword to use as a throwable item hitbox that can net surprise kills at 115%, so be wary of that. Wild Gunmen will stop it though.

The fight comes down to how you synchronize your projectiles with your normals, and imo, Duck Hunt's got a slight edge. Robin's quick and strong Levin aerials will get damage in one chunk at a time, but your aerials are very long and very fast, and they don't waste away. If you force Robin into his shield and you're close, go for it. Sub-par to average rolls, slow and short standard grab, his best option is basically jump backward, lol, and you've got some snazzy long tilts and SH aerials and a decent Dash Grab that can really lay the hurt on. Robin's Ftilt, Dash Attack, Nair and Jab can sneak in and harass you though, with Fire Jab taking your stock around 150-160ish, so watch for those.

Robin has few options if he's knocked into the air. Take advantage of that. His only real options getting back down safely from someone hounding him on the ground are Elwind, Uair waaay close to the ground, Nair, barely, Nosferatu if you're shield-grab/smash-charge happy, and whatever Thunder charge he's got stored up. Keep in mind that if Robin double jumps, and charges his Thunder tome completely to Thoron, he receives a slight pushback opposite the way he's facing, and he regains his double jump. Don't commit to a move thinking he's run out of jumps if he charges to Thoron, otherwise he's jumping again, and with a Thoron ready to smack you if you over-commit.

On the other side, Robin just needs one move to confirm to proceed with following up. Arcthunder, Thoron, and Arcfire lead to sizeable damage, if not a followup, and then Duck Hunt's in the air with just HAC, Nair, and Dair to help him out. Respectable moves to be sure, but Levin Uair is equally as potent. Thoron, Arcthunder, and Arcfire can catch your landings, starting the cycle all over again.

Robin's a sitting duck (lol) from above when recovering with Elwind, so throw your godly Dair out and make him regret getting himself offstage and DIing downward. Conversely, the first blade of Elwind has a Meteor hitbox at Robin's palm, so if you're recovering low with your UpB, Robin's going to be waiting for you, Wind Tome ready.

You win the neutral game to a degree, the projectile game by itself comes to a standstill, but Robin just needs one Thoron, Arcthunder, or Arcfire to connect to get going and make up for it and take a stock with Levin Uair, Fair, Thoron, or Fsmash. It's a pretty unique matchup.




Quirky factoid: Duck Hunt's "Scratch behind the ear" idle pose actually get him under Thoron so he avoids it. Sooooo if the two are staring each other down like an old-fashioned western, Duck Hunt will survive fabulously if Robin draws at the wrong moment. His sniffing at the ground pose also lets him avoid the first hit, but he gets caught by the tail, but he won't die from that hit until much later.

 

[Maniacmatt]

Robin has limits to his/her projectiles, you don't. Take that into consideration and just out camp them. The wild gunman can save you from a lot of Robin's projectiles and yeah. I've had a friend of mine who plays robin who generally complains about that and I can understand why.

That makes sense, thanks! The wild Gunman helps against other campy characters a lot.

I wish i saw this post earlier. i just went 2-12 to a robin. it was really tough at first but i did use the wild gunman to get out of robins stuff alot. but i think i went more aggressive then i should have.

Glad I wasn't the only one!

 

[crashbfan]

Greninja is going to screw us...! his stupid height makes the frisbee go over his stupid head and he can gimp our upB with his water thing and make us helpless

 

[Jigglymaster]

I'll be honest Im not really feelin the DHD vs Greninja matchup. It's one of those cases where my other main characters Sonic and Diddy just flat out preform better in that matchup. But, thats not going to really help the DHD boards figure out the matchup any better. I'm still curious to see if you guys can come up with anything good on how to make that matchup in DHD's favor.

 

[Funkermonster]

Can anyone help me out a bit against Mario? His Mario Cape just sends my Frisbees right back at me so I feel those are hardly of any use, and his Dthrow to Utilt combos are so annoying to get caught it. Not a matchup I can't win, but it feels really annoying to win.

But then again, I have quite some trouble with anyone with a reflector too (such as Fox or Palutena), but Mario's by far the most common for me.

 

[alonecuzzo]

Greninja is going to screw us...! his stupid height makes the frisbee go over his stupid head and he can gimp our upB with his water thing and make us helpless

I'm a noob, but I get destroyed by those greninjas.... I just can't deal w/ fast characters.

 

[crashbfan]

I didn't want to make this post but now I have to. Little mac.
i don't know how to properly handle him. sometimes i can win others i cant. seems like he punches and destroy all projectiles

Can anyone help me out a bit against Mario? His Mario Cape just sends my Frisbees right back at me so I feel those are hardly of any use, and his Dthrow to Utilt combos are so annoying to get caught it. Not a matchup I can't win, but it feels really annoying to win.

But then again, I have quite some trouble with anyone with a reflector too (such as Fox or Palutena), but Mario's by far the most common for me.

i have the same strategy against anyone with a reflector. drop down a gunman, and approach them.

 

[DunnoBro]

Don't have much to say currently, I just noticed in the R.O.B. matchup it doesn't seem like other DH's share my sentiment on just how crucial getting the gyro is.

Duck hunt can hold onto that thing forever by just using his specials, aside from the laser this forces R.O.B. to approach and he's pretty crappy at it. You will need to ditch it once you get to kill percents to actually kill, but it makes the grind game a lot easier. Just be wary of the laser, short hop your clay shots to make sure he can't just smash the can and clay at the same time. (And hover the can over his range when using with gunmen)

 

[2Mixer]

my opinion after 4 weeks playin smash4

(+) a good mu
(0) even mu
(-) bad mu

- Sheik
- Rosalina
0 Yoshi
- Greninja
0 Zss
+ Little Mac
- Lucario
- Sonic
- Diddy Kong
0 King D3
0 Fox
0 Mario
+ Bowser

little added text coming soon

 

[DunnoBro]

Can we streamline the discussion like boards in the past? Generally they decide on a few characters to discuss at a time, argue about it, maybe bring in a prominent main from the corresponding board to weigh in and go from there.

I suggest Rosaluma, sheik, and greninja since they're the most relevant threats currently.

 

[proxibomb]

my opinion after 4 weeks playin smash4

(+) a good mu
(0) even mu
(-) bad mu

- Sheik
- Rosalina
0 Yoshi
- Greninja
0 Zss
+ Little Mac
- Lucario
- Sonic
- Diddy Kong
0 King D3
0 Fox
0 Mario
+ Bowser

little added text coming soon

You're doing bad against KD3? Just camp, and have space between yourself and your opponent. Force KD3 to shield with cans, camp using side-b, and push percentages onto him with fairs, bairs, and nairs.

Quote from imabaer's can thread~

It reflects Gordos from DDD. Most projectiles will nudge it, but not blow it up.

 

[Conda]

Greninja is going to screw us...! his stupid height makes the frisbee go over his stupid head and he can gimp our upB with his water thing and make us helpless

Custom moves are a thing.

 

[DunnoBro]

Been playing the rosalina matchup a lot lately on anther's ladder. Not as bad as i thought but you do need to play more conservatively, luckily it's not a big deal cause she's so light and once you get the timing down you can really threaten her recovery with cans. (Her recovery from a diagonal angle is about the same as the can. keep it on point and prepare to punish a nonsweetspot upb)

Essentially, gunmen and is key here. Always have him out to accompany can/clay pressure to punish if they try to galaxy pull. But also keep them separate enough that they can't be smashed by the luma launch together. This forces them to generally act how most other characters do with duck hunt and helps mitigate the gpull.

Maintain control of the mid range so you can punish aerial gpull too. This match is less about damage and more about connecting and keeping her off the ground and pressured.

Clay pigeon is helpful here but mostly as sudden pressure, not constantly applied. Generally gunmen and can with their more awkward timing and trajectories serve to pressure rosalina more.

Don't really have a ratio on the matchup to give, not experienced enough but personally I think it's just different and not too uneven. She forces Duckhunt into different options but those options work very well against her.

 

[Funkermonster]

Advice when facing Bowser Jr.? Fought one yesterday and I had trouble dealing with his cannonball attack, which seems to push my cans right back to me and render them useless.

 

[Masque]

Greninja is going to screw us...! his stupid height makes the frisbee go over his stupid head and he can gimp our upB with his water thing and make us helpless

As far as the clay pigeon is concerned, Tilt-B will launch the disc at a lower angle, effectively creating a landmine you can trigger with B. Combine with cans and gunmen for more pressure, then dash in for a grab when they try to shield the blast.

 

[2Mixer]

I'm depressed with the diddy kong mu.
"Hi, I'm Diddy and i can kill very easy :3 "

 

[Usopp]

Hi, just your average DH main here to revive this thread because its a great idea.

How in the world does duck hunt deal with ZSS? I always just barely lose the MU. i feel like DH dsmash and fsmash is really good against her but its not that easy to land usually

 

[Grimmdark2140]

Hi, just your average DH main here to revive this thread because its a great idea.

How in the world does duck hunt deal with ZSS? I always just barely lose the MU. i feel like DH dsmash and fsmash is really good against her but its not that easy to land usually

Thank you, for helping this thread out because this kind of an important thread. As for ZSS, I can't really say because all ZSS I fight were not with DH and mainly with DDD on for glory. The only few things I can say. This goes without saying is don't get grabbed that is what a ZSS wants and more than likely looking for. If you see ZSS down b towards you be in shield till she lands from my experience because they either do the dive kick or the attack part of the down b. If the land after not using an attack jump away or roll away. ZSS more than likely won't win a projectile war against DH because we can protect our self against her paralyzer. Be patient and wait for ZSS to make a mistake and punish her for it. I should get my friend to play ZSS against me to get a better insight here.

 

[DunnoBro]

Unfortunately every ZSS I've played so far has been ass. Kind of hard to kill since you can't easily uair her due to that dair/side b, or punish her landings due to side b, but I feel like the neutral game belongs to DHD.

 

[Funkermonster]

Advice against Bowser Jr.? His cannonballs and mechakoopas make short work of my cans and gunmen as they're destroyed/reflected back at me if I push the button again and it feels soooo frustrating to try and kill him, given his absurd recovery and heavyweight

 

[Spirst]

Advice against Bowser Jr.? His cannonballs and mechakoopas make short work of my cans and gunmen as they're destroyed/reflected back at me if I push the button again and it feels soooo frustrating to try and kill him, given his absurd recovery and heavyweight

I don't find Jr to be too hard a matchup. Your projectiles require less commitment than his and you have the upper hand on general mobility. Clown car charges, I believe, can be canceled or even beaten with a clay pigeon and your disjointed ftilt will cancel a cannonball as well as destroy a mechakoopa without taking any damage. Fthrow-dash attack/fair past 9% works fine and a clay pigeon will force him to approach much of the time. His fair and bair autocancel but I'm pretty sure we have more disjointed range on ours. When he's offstage, he can be harassed with projectiles since his recovery is a predictable vertical one and the clown car is telegraphed. However, don't forget that one of his best KO moves is the hammer that he can use after he's ejected from the koopa car. Trying to get too close will probably lead to you getting stagespiked or put him in a favorable position. I haven't played too many Jr/Koopalings but I don't see this being too bad. We have the better projectiles and neutral game I feel. With our largely disjointed fair and autocanceling bair, we may even have a one-up in the airgame. His recovery beats ours though so don't get too confident with following him offstage.

 

[DunnoBro]

Get used to shielding + short hopping nair to easily grab the mechakoopas. (don't go for it if he's already charging the cannon though)

That helps me a lot. But essentially, control the skies. Jump before launching pretty much ALL projectiles, it keeps you safer, puts them in more annoying positions for jr, and get used to the spacing/multi-hit of his stuff.

Also a little thing I like doing (when i can since any lag makes this hard)
When you can tell they're going to recover low, don't chase with the can but rather keep the can on the lip and fast fall a nair in his direction when you suspect he'll upb. Odds are if it didn't hit him, he'll avoid sweetspotting now, which will let the can punish him. Unless he was at a % that gave him the height he needed, the can should pretty much kill him since it takes forever for his car to come back.

This works on a lot of characters but i think it's only worth the risk/reward on junior.

Overall he doesn't really give me much trouble unless it's super laggy and i can't jump worth a damn

 

[Usopp]

I love playing bowser jr as DH. Basically dominate the projectile game in neutral and you can win. I dilt the can alot at them for a faster explosion, sometimes i back air it so i can shield and roll away depending on who im playing against and for some reason it works. Another thing thats really good is grabbing the mechakoopa and using the can the the disk and their mechakoopa to pressure them to the ledge. its all about the mind games lol.