Detailed Attack Statistics *project is on hold until I'm done my desync video*

[smaci92]

Look for updates on the info table every week...

Note: When this thread is finished, it will help you become better and have more knowledge about Ice Climbers. Yes, it's a lot of info to read...but read it all.
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Detailed Ice Climbers Attack Statistics
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Edit History:
- 20/10/2008: Created the thread. Color of the whole opening section. Popo (by himself) & Nana (her attacks when desynced fsmash knockback, damage and KGR.
- 21/10/2008: Both Ice Climbers dash attack damage.

INTRODUCTION:
Ok, before I start, I want to say that this is probably going to be a month long project (maybe even longer). I hope everyone will appreciate the work I will be putting into this, and will benefit from it!

INFO COVERED IN THIS THREAD:
Well, this is an in-depth look at the Ice Climbers moveset. The material that will be covered about EVERY move is:

- The percent of damage the attack deals.
- Frame data: starting frames, cooldown frames, total frames, when the hitbox is out, and when it deals damage.
- Knockback data: which attacks have the most knockback, the knockback growth rate (KGR).
- The angle the attack knocks the foe (with no directional influence).

WORDS YOU NEED TO KNOW
Frame: A frame is a single still image in any sort of moving picture, many of which are shown in rapid succession to produce any given animation. In video games, frames are often used as a measurement of time.

Knockback: a measure of how far an attack sends its target. For example, Bowser's forward smash is an attack of high knockback; it launches opponents very far, so far that at high damages it's more powerful than a home-run bat smash attack. Pikachu's neutral A, on the other hand, has very low knockback - it hardly sends opponents anywhere.

Knockback Growth Rate: the rate at which the knockback will increase with a single percent of damage. For instance, if you do an attack that will have 3,000 knockback when your opponent is at 20%, and it has a KGR of 50, then at 21% you'll do 3,050 knockback, at 25% you'll do 3,250 and so on.

Hitbox: the area of an attack that is able to damage your opponent. This area is invisible and is not always part of what is used to attack.

THE KNOCKBACK FORMULA:
Knockback is determined by the damage percentage after the move has finished, but I am giving percentage before the attack as the kill percentage because that when you want to know if the opponent can be killed. If you want the actual percentage it kills at just add the damage dealt to the kill percentage I am listing.

The formula for knockback is: V = a*d/m + Vo + f*c
Where:
V = knockback
a = knockback growth rate (KGR)
m = character mass
d = damage (after the hit)
f = character fall compensation
c = general fall compensation

Credit goes to MrSilver for this formula

- All kill percentages are on Mario in the middle of final destination. No DI involved. When using this data for other characters check the character weight list for details on how to account for their different weights: http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=162546

- “Kill Percentage” in blue kills out the side, in orange kills out the top, and green indicates the move will spike.

- The knockback angles do not include DI either. I plan to add the variation that can occur due to DI in the future.

Credit goes to Adapt from the ZSS boards for originally writing this section.

_________________________________________________
let's get started...

ICE CLIMBERS (both Popo & Nana together)

Popo (Popo alone; AKA: Sopo)

Coming soon...

Nana (her attacks when de-synced)

Coming soon...
_____________________
credit(s):
- Adapt for teaching me how to calculate knockback
- MrSilver for the formula

 

[smaci92]

reserved for a huge body of text (if I need it)...

 

[DemonicTrilogy]

Wow, nice job. Some info on attacks. Ice Block is maxed 3 damage if they are up close and can go all the way to 0 damage (I'm not sure if they count decimals) when melted (not sure what this attack is when decayed). Down , up, and back is 6% fresh and forward throw is 8% for both Ice Climbers.

 

[ChibiIceClimberz]

May I help with the damage with two and one ice climber? I'm doing this so you don't have to do a lot of work lulz. If you just did it... sorry... O.o
And are you doing the damage-wise as #%-#% or just the highest percent of the move?
Nana is really weak with her damage lulz...


Both Ice Climbers

Other Attacks
Neutral A: 11%
Dash Attacks: 10%

Specials
Ice Shot: 6%
Blizzard: 35%
Squall: 33%
Belay: 16%

Smashes (Normal damage | Fully charged)
Up smash: 20% | 28%
Forward smash: 23% | 32%
Down smash: 20% | 28% WHEN POPO AND NANA HIT AGAIN -> 42% | 54%

Tilts
Up tilt: 17%
Forward tilt: 16%
Down tilt: 11%

Aerials
Up air: 17%
Forward air: 19% WHEN NANA SPIKES -> 24%
Neutral air: 12%
Back air: 19%
Down air: 13%

Grabs
Pummeling: 1%.
Up throw: 6%
Forward throw: 8%
Down throw: 6%

Attacking/Back to the stage
Attack: 16%


Popo Only

Other Attacks
Neutral A: 7%
Dash Attacks: 6%

Specials
Ice Shot: 3%
Blizzard: 18%
Squall: 20%
Belay: --

Smashes (Normal damage | Fully charged)
Up smash: 11% | 15%
Forward smash: 13% | 18%
Down smash: 12% | 16% WHEN POPO HITS AGAIN -> 24% | 30%

Tilts
Up tilt: 10%
Forward tilt: 16%
Down tilt: 11%

Aerials
Up air: 10%
Forward air: 12%
Neutral air: 7%
Back air: 11%
Down air: 8%

Grabs
Pummeling: 1%.
Up throw: 6%
Forward throw: 8%
Down throw: 6%

Attacking/Back to the stage
Attack: 8%


Nana (Partner) Only

Other Attacks
Neutral A: 4%
Dash Attacks: 4%

Specials
Ice Shot: 3%
Blizzard: 18%
Squall: 12%
Belay: --%

Smashes (Normal damage | Fully charged)
Up smash: 9% | 12%
Forward smash: 10% | 14%
Down smash: 8% | 11% WHEN NANA HITS AGAIN -> 16% | 23%

Tilts
Up tilt: 7%
Forward tilt: 7%
Down tilt: 4%

Aerials
Up air: 7%
Forward air: 7% WHEN NANA SPIKES -> 12%
Neutral air: 5%
Back air: 8%
Down air: 5%

Grabs
Pummeling: 1%.
Up throw: 6%
Forward throw: 8%
Down throw: 6%

Attacking/Back to the stage
Attack: 8%


Edit... edit
Edited errors of damage; typo.

 

[Z1GMA]

Good work!

My best blizzard was 37% damage on D3 i think..

 

[K 2]

Hey, good luck with this, smaci! I'll be looking forward to a massive block of data. =P

 

[smaci92]

thanks guys... I'll do my best, and hope it helps. Any suggestions on my organization of the material??? cause I'm hoping to make this pretty easy to read...or else people will get overwhelmed and just leave and I don't want all my work to go to waste

and thanks a lot chibi for the info...although, I've checked the stickied guide, and yes, it said popo's fsmash is 18% (fully charged)...but I tested it, and it is really actually 19%...

 

[JustNoOne]

I have two questions:

1. If we find all the variables for the Ice Climbers when they are synced and we record the knockback, damage, ect. and we do the same for SoPo, can't we just do Climbers - SoPo = SoNa?

2. What is Vo in the knockback equation? Also, can you explain a little bit more about variable c and f?

f = character fall compensation
c = general fall compensation

I really don't get what this means.

 

[smaci92]

I have two questions:

1. If we find all the variables for the Ice Climbers when they are synced and we record the knockback, damage, ect. and we do the same for SoPo, can't we just do Climbers - SoPo = SoNa?

2. What is Vo in the knockback equation? Also, can you explain a little bit more about variable c and f?

f = character fall compensation
c = general fall compensation

I really don't get what this means.

@ question 1: why are you saying "we"? cause I really don't expect you guys to help out...I'm trying to figure this stuff out myself to REDUCE your guys's work , so all you have to do is look at charts once it's finished. also, I don't quite get what you're trying to ask...but I'll try to answer. you're asking if I even need to test Nana info right? I have to test it because for example, if you're playing in the normal costume, Popo is the leading IC...When they are synced there are two of them, and because Nana is a few frames behind Popo, their will be 2 hitboxes every time they hit. also, Popo's damage and knockback and stuff will be different compare to Nana's...That is why I have to test Nana (which will be pretty hard because I'll have to desync them and then hit them with a solo nana move at 0%)

@ question 2: You don't really need to know how it works since I'm the one testing =P. but I'll try to explain if you really want to know. I will not be using f and c because according to Adapt, it is not suppose to significantly change the results of the test. so basically you just take out f and c, and you can calculate with laucher speed and so forth...

hope I made sense lol...those were pretty hard to explain

 

[JustNoOne]

Sorry but I plan on doing some math, I'm really bored in school since most of my courses have like litteraly no math in them except business...

Also, so the equation would be this:

Knockback = 50.41 * the damage of an attack / 0.970 + Vo

and

50.41 is equal to Popo's Knockback Growth Rate
0.97 is equal to the weight of the character compaired to Mario
Vo is still unamed

Me right?

 

[Adapt]

- KGR (a) is the rate at which the knockback of a move grows with damage.

- Vo is the base knockback of a move: the theoretical knockback at 0%

- f is the fall speed of the specific character, and c is a move specific value that regulates the effect of the fall speed.

- f*c will rarely be greater than +/-100 except in the case of Fox and Sheik so it rarely makes a huge difference.

- Most moves kill horizontally on Mario around 6200 MPH

- The weight is of the character that the Ice Climbers are hitting, not the weight of the ice climbers.

- also, your KGR seems rather high for the forward smash. did you use the fully charged version?

Having 2 characters hitting at almost the same time certainly makes this project much more annoying than it was for ZSS. Have fun

 

[smaci92]

@JustNoOne: There you go...Adapt has answered... but just let me pm you right now...and I agree...school math sucks...It's a lot more fun when you apply math to brawl lol I could definitly use some help on this thread...thanks for the offer! I'll take it I just didn't think you'd be willing to help on all this work...You can help calculate knockback if you'd like...maybe kill percentages too I will credit you in the thread also (if you send me some data every now and then).

@ Adapt: Ya, I know...because there's two of them, everything is going to be much harder to test such as the frame data. Thanks for all your help Adapt...
edit: yes Adapt, I used the fully charged version for the fsmash...i'll do the uncharged version a bit later...

 

[Bnzaaa]

Forward smash has 2 different damage counts when fresh. For SoPo at least, an uncharged Forward smash does 12 damage. If they are hit where the hammer connects with the ground or hit from above, it does 13 damage.

 

[smaci92]

thanks for pointing that out Bnzaaa...I will remember that (hopefully)

May I help with the damage with two and one ice climber?

oh ya Chibi, I forgot to answer you about this question lol...I didn't see it. Ya, sure, you can definitely help out with the damage info. I'll add it to the first post every now and then when I get some time.

And are you doing the damage-wise as #%-#% or just the highest percent of the move?
Nana is really weak with her damage lulz...

No...don't take the (highest percent) - (lowest percent). I need two different percents (the lowest one and the highest one)...For example, a fsmash can be uncharged or fully charged...I need you to test the damage of an uncharged fsmash, and the damage of a completely fully charged fsmash if you don't mind...

Yay! so we got 3 people helping in this thread! Me, Chibi, and JustNoOne. thanks guys! This might go faster than I thought...You guys will continue being credited in the credits if you send me data every now and then

 

[smaci92]

updated: a new table and fully charged fsmash info. check it out =P

 

[FrozenHobo]

this is going to be ome pretty ****ing awesome **** when it gets done. good luck

 

[smaci92]

this is going to be ome pretty ****ing awesome **** when it gets done. good luck

thanks man. keep looking for updates on the table every now and then...I'll definitely be updating some more info tomorrow. gawd, that first line of the fully charged fsmash took me 45 mins to test lol