Decisive Games NewD3 Mafia (GAME OVER!)

[Swiss]

You're working hard to make me reconsider that though Wam

 

[Wam]

Above is Swiss

And of course you will have a read tomorrow it will be post deadline.

@mod are we getting flips at start or end of night.

Just fyi as well I am unlikely to be around at deadline.

Going forward on the above we need to be careful that we have enough votes to get a hammer in. It's no good having votes split across lots of people with the respective players asleep.

 

[Wam]

Paranoid.

I meant I think you're both town

I thought you were a) agreeing with laser, and b) you wouldn't do reads with only 1 scum read!

 

[Swiss]

If I understand correctly deadline is t minus 21 hours (ish)

 

[Wam]

I think closer to 20 hours.

 

[Eido]

Hmm.

I will not yeet: Gorf, Fonti
I would not like to yeet: Sabrar, LaserGuy, Swiss
I would consider yeeting: Wam
I would like to yeet: Bessie, Maven, Somi

 

[Sabrar]

Maven - Scum Lean. Feels sneaky.

Could you elaborate on this read?
Also do you have any specific reason to sus somi or is it just because of the lurking?

 

[Eido]

Yeah see here for Maven:

Decisive Games NewD3 Mafia (GAME OVER!)

@fontisian Yeh, the point you raised about the questions is why I took timeout to reread the game. When you’re faced with lots of questions, it becomes difficult to split your time doing more useful things. If I answer them all, I need extra time to scum hunt, and sometimes that extra time just...

smashboards.com

He was way more abrupt in Apex, spelling everyone's names wrong and all that, all round in your face attitude. I get sneakier vibes here.

And yes Somi is purely lack of content/lurking. Content feels non-committal. Not a lot to draw from.

Vote: Maven

 

[Wam]

Sabrar

You have been sitting back and questioning. With less than 24 hours to go where is your head at?

 

[Eido]

LaserGuy You mentioned the possibility of Bessie obfuscating her play. Does she have a hard time playing Scum generally that she would need to do this to fool people? Her gameplay feels tricky to follow, I'm trying to work out why that is, and whether it's all a lack of understanding from my end. The xkcd'ers don't seem to be all that wary of her (except somi, and they haven't pushed her at all).

 

[Sabrar]

Sabrar

You have been sitting back and questioning. With less than 24 hours to go where is your head at?

My preference is Maven>somi>Eido.
Both Eido and somi gave me small town-pings which is enough to give them another chance to improve. Maven is (mostly) a random yeet but I cannot see any excuse to keep the slot in the game. I am not comfortable with any of the choices right now.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

A friend of mine is driving across the country and asked if he could crash at my place tonight. On top of that I have work+a performance so I’m not gonna really be around to play eod unfortunately. I try my best to be attentive so that a lynch goes through.

Right now I’m somi>maven>eido. I think it’d be worth having maven replace out if it has to come to that, whereas I take enough issue with somis readslist that I’d rather just lynch the slot than possibly throw fud into the read by trying to treat a replacement “fairly.”

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

OFFICIAL VOTE COUNT v1.7

Eido (2): Swiss, Bessie
Somitomi (2): Wam, Gorf
Fontisian (1): Laserguy
Maven (1): Eido

Not Voting (4): Sabrar, Maven, Fontisian, Somitomi

With 10 alive it takes 6 votes to eliminate!

AS OF THIS POST DEADLINE WILL BE IN APPROXIMATELY 14 HOURS LESS 5 MINUTES!

Rule Note: All day phase eliminations will be revealed prior to the start of following night phase. All night phase eliminations will be revealed at the start of the following day phase.

 

[Wam]

We need a hammer and I dont know if Maven89 is going to be around so we need 6/9 to vote the same way. Assuming we end up with 2 wagons, no one will self hammer and the people involved cross vote we actually need 5/6 to agree. This is not going to be easy as we have 3/4 on european time (me, sabrar, swiss and somi? ) so we dont have much time left.

 

[fontisian]

I am reluctant to yeet Maven while he's not around to claim. Will do it to avoid a no-yeet if necessary.

I would like Sabrar and Swiss to talk about their Somi reads, maybe a grab a quote or two while doing it. I would like Swiss to note the posts he's talking about in general.

I believe Laser believes his case on me and have no interest in yeeting him.

Vote: Somitomi

somitomi Now would be an excellent time to show up.

 

[fontisian]

Vote: Somitomi

 

[fontisian]

Well, I had less time for this game over the weekend than anticipated, so here are some weakly ordered impressions:
YEAH
Maven - didn't post much, but us lurkers have to stick together.
Sabrar - has been asking pertinent questions, although he seems to have taken the backseat this game a little.
Fontisian - like how they've been trying to help sort the Gorf v. Eido debate out. The absolute confidence they show rubs me up the wrong way, but I couldn't read Xivii at all because of this.
LaserGuy - seems to engage with everyone and think about the responses.
Bessie - feels like her town self, although I think some of her points on Eido are nitpicky even for a bessie tunnel.
Eido - I get like 90% newbie town vibes here, they've been fairly open about their opinions and don't seem to be afraid from drawing attention. Dismissing the possibility of a quickhammer is weird coming from a fairly new player though.
Wam - feels kinda scummy like they always do, so I'm bumping to neutral. I'm not a fan of the "scum are probably lurking" take, but that's kinda personal.
Gorf - has been focusing on Eido and saying very little about anyone else, which just feels off to me. On the other hand, that'd be kind of risky for mafia to do
Swiss - spent most of his time on Eido as well, and the non-committal reads list at the end of #207 pings me a little.
BOO
Ninja'd by the entire observable universe

LaserGuy , I'm not sure why you think these reads are noncensusy? Keep in mind I don't think Somi was fully caught up when he posted them.

I'm assuming the Maven read is a joke. Sabrar and Bessie are consensusy townreads. The rest of the reads are built up on not liking the Eido push,. You and I defended Eido, so we're at the top. Wam, Gorf and Swiss attacked Eido, so they're at the bottom. It's very one-dimensional. Is that normal for town!Somi?

 

[fontisian]

I will not yeet: Gorf, Laser, Bessie
I would not like to yeet: Eido, Wam
I would consider yeeting: Maven, Swiss, Sabrar
I would like to yeet: Somi

 

[LaserGuy]

Catching up on a few things I didn't feel I addressed directly.

We've talked about this before. I don't like fleshing out my reads in the thread early on Day 1, especially regarding stronger players. But one of my townreads was apparently scumreading me for a "lack of content" and other people were talking about it, which meant in order to meet my responsibilities I needed to share more thoughts.

Noting this an example of being more interested in managing expectations of her rather than actually moving toward a solve.

*****, I have been going out my way to shut down bad yeets. Eido is drowning under pressure? I townread him. People are starting to turn on Gorf? Townread for him too. Eido and Gorf are still fighting? I try to give them a framework so they can get to better reads on each other. Wam's an easy misyeet pretty much every game? Sure, I'll share a townread there too. I'm not really townreading Eido that much but he's still getting an overwhelming number of questions, some of which are pointless? I'll volley the pointless ones for him and try to give him a little bit of breathing room. I don't talk about my suspicions as they build until I need to flesh out my views to keep my own position viable, because the extra pressure on Eido won't be helpful. You're hard townreading Eido, you should be seeing how much I have adjusted to help town!him dig his way out of this.

I feel that your support of Eido here is pretty NAI for you. I recall that you similarly spent some time trying to diffuse the tension between me/Chaco in TIL, and also in the same game helped Malakandra when he was struggling for reads.

Town!you has understood this in the past, you got that I defend people in proportion to my townreads on them and to the extent I think is useful. You got that I give people rope to either defend on hang themselves with.

IIRC, I made that comment in TIL while you were mafia. So yes, I don't disagree that you do this. I just think it's NAI.

LaserGuy , fair, I forgot your Xivii tunnel in Apex. I was a bit concerned abouthiw you easily townread me there and aren't able to get there here, but looking over it, I was being more agressive there. I'm also conflating games I where I was reading along with games I was in, I think. Anyway, we're cool.

Your play this game is very different from Apex.

If I alter my style it’s more likely role playing than intent to deceive; even when I’m playing as someone else I have a feeling I’m still pretty distinctly bessie. But say I was deliberately trying to change up my meta. Why would that be suspicious? +0

Because it could be an attempt by scum!you to make yourself more difficult to read, or to try to gain townie credit from a gambit. Kind of like posting all in emojis or something.

I didn't already think somi was scum. They're both down there because they aren't townreads.

So who do you actually believe is scum?

LaserGuy You mentioned the possibility of Bessie obfuscating her play. Does she have a hard time playing Scum generally that she would need to do this to fool people? Her gameplay feels tricky to follow, I'm trying to work out why that is, and whether it's all a lack of understanding from my end. The xkcd'ers don't seem to be all that wary of her (except somi, and they haven't pushed her at all).

IMHO, bessie tends to be pretty transparent as Town and pretty transparent as mafia. I don't know that everyone shares this interpretation of her play.

 

[Sabrar]

Deadline is 8am for me, if I'm not awake then it means that for the first time in 5 years I've slept more than 7 hours. Long story short I will be around to secure a yeet.

fontisian you actually quoted the exact post that gave me the town-ping on somi, I think that Gorf and Swiss don't appear that much on people's scum-lists therefore I agree with LaserGuy in that somi attacking them in noncensusy. I'm willing to reconsider though.

 

[fontisian]

Deadline is 8am for me, if I'm not awake then it means that for the first time in 5 years I've slept more than 7 hours. Long story short I will be around to secure a yeet.

fontisian you actually quoted the exact post that gave me the town-ping on somi, I think that Gorf and Swiss don't appear that much on people's scum-lists therefore I agree with LaserGuy in that somi attacking them in noncensusy. I'm willing to reconsider though.

If Somi was more in tune with the thread in the early game than the late, then he saw Laser scumreading Gorf. Mmm, one sec.

LaserGuy , yes I know I'm playing very differently from Apex, I looked over it. That's why I said I was ok with you yesterday.

 

[fontisian]

Or it's just a copy of Eido's early content:

Alright, let’s start here:



I’m not sure right now.

If it's not one of the vocal players (Gorf or Swiss), it's one of the players on the side of the discussion using it as leverage. Somitomi / Wam? I'll post some reasons next.

I mean, it could come from town, sure.. It's just weird that it's so linear and built around this one player, no independent reads in there.

 

[Sabrar]

If Somi was more in tune with the thread in the early game than the late, then he saw Laser scumreading Gorf. Mmm, one sec.

True but that would mean that scum!somi is actually not reading the thread and being absent is just lazyness and not a ploy. I don't think scum!somi would be that lazy.

 

[fontisian]

There's also the out of order stuff. Somi said this:

Wait, I was doing what? And I didn't even notice? Wow, I'm a mafia god. Seriously though, anyone calling me one of the active players isn't following this game.

In response to this:
The biggest clue to me right now lies in those leveraging the momentum Gorf created to build a wagon. This means in the region of the following players:

Yourself / Somitomi / Maven / Wam / And now Bessie.

There's a real temptation to build or follow wagons on a Townie because Scum get 3 potential kills. I expect there to be some temptation in hopping on my wagon then. I'm also forced to think about Gorf making up his scum tell to push, and what that means.

Note that Eido does not call him active here, in post 118. No one calls him active until here:

Oh god I agree with sabrar again!

The set is just the active players. At this stage scum are more likely to be lurking, quiet and avoiding attention, than leading lynches and hopping on and off wagons.

That's post 151. So Somi is either reading ahead a bit, not reacting to things in the moment, or chatting in scumchat I guess. I don't know if reading a bit ahead is normal for him. It feels strange.

 

[fontisian]

I'm skimming completely vanilla for a somi scumgame. Found this, don't have the context on the player's positioning to know how different or similar it is the readlist Somi posted here. Unfortunately it doesn't look like any of you were in that game, but if you followed along with it or something let me know, please.

Holy smokes, lot of pages since I last checked in.
I'm gonna try sum up my impressions, although I feel like it's all based on gutfeels and nothing at this point.
Suspicious
UtopianPoyzin
Xivii
DarkPit
Osieorb (neutral-ish)
FrozenFlame
BoomFrog
Chaco
Cool

Null: mercuri (how is this play not grounds for a policy yeet?)
At this point, UP feels like the best candidate, they have been going back and forth on quite a lot of things, and their posts have this "I'm just kidding, or am I?" vibe that makes it hard to tell if they're serious (and easy for them to back out of things). Overall this doesn't seem like it's helping town.

What if nobody gets to L-1 before the day runs out? I think D1 votes are generally all over the place and I don't see how we could stop that from happening.

Really? I just skimmed the thread a second time to see where that agreement was reached, but I don't see it. Seems like there's still some argument over whether or not some of the roles actually do something. The fact that you pushed Osie to claim right when they jumped in just doesn't sit well with me honestly.

I think I've played about a dozen games so far, almost all of them on the late XKCD forum (we'll miss it forever). For what it's worth, BoomFrog and Xivii have seen me play there.

 

[Sabrar]

I'll think about that (#344), meanwhile can you explain why Eido would lump somitomi into that set? somi's only post before #118 was #78 and it only contained an off-handed comment to Eido, nothing that could be categorized as 'building a wagon'.

 

[fontisian]

I'll think about that (#344), meanwhile can you explain why Eido would lump somitomi into that set? somi's only post before #118 was #78 and it only contained an off-handed comment to Eido, nothing that could be categorized as 'building a wagon'.

It felt like Somi was contributing to the push on Eido with an offhand comment supporting the whole "don't people at l-2" argument from Gorf. Eido felt that way, Gorf felt that way (he had to go back and reread to realize Somi wasn't pushing strongly) and I felt that way.

 

[fontisian]

Looking at a towngame, now, can probably dismiss some of the point about not really townreading Eido but scumreading the people pushing for him.

As usual I don't feel particularly confident and my townreads are essentially based on not finding anything suspicious there, but here's where I'm at right now with some notes.
==cool==
Deadbananas: obvtown.
ranmaru
LaserGuy
Sabrar
bessie: tone feels normal, but her posts feel... light? Maybe I'm used to the tunneling bessie
=neutral line=
Tattertot: innocently weird in a way that I can't really place yet. It seems fairly clear they're not being coached, but I'm not sure that's a surefire town indicator.
Heury: Mainly because I'm not a fan of their takes on tattertot, particularly the one about newbies being difficult to read. It's true, but it's a super terrible reason to find someone suspicious.
Swiss: On the whole I'm not a fan of Swiss's push on Sabrar, it seems to be based on very little and dismisses Sabrar's responses rather blithely.
==sus==

Points in Somi's favor:
Here he's scumreading Heury alone for scumreading Tattertot for bad reason while he's also scumreading tattertot. He's also scumreading Swiss for his push on Sabrar while Sabrar is only his second weakest townread.

The bessie read and placement is also pretty similar to this game.

Points against Somi:
He spends a lot more time thinking about and fleshing out his scum and weak townreads here, mostly because he's looking for scum, not looking for town, and thus doesn't feel like he as concrete reasons to back up his townreads besides "not scummy."

Well, I had less time for this game over the weekend than anticipated, so here are some weakly ordered impressions:
YEAH
Maven - didn't post much, but us lurkers have to stick together.
Sabrar - has been asking pertinent questions, although he seems to have taken the backseat this game a little.
Fontisian - like how they've been trying to help sort the Gorf v. Eido debate out. The absolute confidence they show rubs me up the wrong way, but I couldn't read Xivii at all because of this.
LaserGuy - seems to engage with everyone and think about the responses.
Bessie - feels like her town self, although I think some of her points on Eido are nitpicky even for a bessie tunnel.
Eido - I get like 90% newbie town vibes here, they've been fairly open about their opinions and don't seem to be afraid from drawing attention. Dismissing the possibility of a quickhammer is weird coming from a fairly new player though.
Wam - feels kinda scummy like they always do, so I'm bumping to neutral. I'm not a fan of the "scum are probably lurking" take, but that's kinda personal.
Gorf - has been focusing on Eido and saying very little about anyone else, which just feels off to me. On the other hand, that'd be kind of risky for mafia to do
Swiss - spent most of his time on Eido as well, and the non-committal reads list at the end of #207 pings me a little.
BOO
Ninja'd by the entire observable universe

In this game, Somi's townreads feel more fleshed out than his scumreads, so he's townhunting more than or as much as he's scumhunting. This could be scum indicative because it's easier to make townreads as scum (as you already know who the town are) than it is to fake scumreads. That said, he didn't give a lot of reasons for townreading people in his scum game. That's potentially because he was already under a lot of pressure there.

This was fairly inconclusive. Anyway.

 

[fontisian]

Vote: Swiss

Hey Swiss you're boring af.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

I feel that your support of Eido here is pretty NAI for you. I recall that you similarly spent some time trying to diffuse the tension between me/Chaco in TIL, and also in the same game helped Malakandra when he was struggling for reads.

this is the type of thing I was looking for when I asked if I might’ve been missing something with my fonti townread in the face of others sussing her

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Gorf
Sabrar
Swiss

Fonti
Bessie/Laserguy

Wam

Maven/Eido
Somitomi

 

[fontisian]

this is the type of thing I was looking for when I asked if I might’ve been missing something with my fonti townread in the face of others sussing her

This difference was the goal. I defended Chaco and another person he suspected (I forget who) to turn them into a counterblock I could direct, with the knowledge that it would likely implode around Day 3. It's a technique a wolf used against me just before that, so I wanted to give it a whirl. Turned out very well.

Here, I am playing the role of facilitator, helping the town as a whole get to a better place instead of subdividing, with the complication that this game is really ****ing low content.

The Swiss vote is 100% serious, by the way. For his player archetype being boring is damning.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Bessie and Laserguy to be fleshed out when I have more time to sit with the thread, likely toNight unfortunately.

if I had to say, wam and maven are both true null, but where I acknowledge wams being here and content are not giving me scummy vibes, they also just don’t seem to leave a lasting impression on me in general. Prob the player I’m most interested in isoing. Maven I can see either way, and his content being anemic makes it hard to give a fair assessment. Would yeet either if it came down to it but the prospect doesn’t excite me

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

The Swiss vote is 100% serious, by the way. For his player archetype being boring is damning.

ehh I think that’d be more damning later, and I don’t honestly think it’s boring yet. I think it’s a matter of not seeing something to really sink his teeth into, which is nai. It’d prob be scummier if he tried to force the issue. But his play is still showing engagement (also nai), it’s not detached.

 

[fontisian]

ehh I think that’d be more damning later, and I don’t honestly think it’s boring yet. I think it’s a matter of not seeing something to really sink his teeth into, which is nai. It’d prob be scummier if he tried to force the issue. But his play is still showing engagement (also nai), it’s not detached.

I disagree that he's showing engagement. He fell off hard after the early game and, as Laser noted, didn't do anything with his realization that Eido was town.

I also think the wording he used when he jumped on Eido in the first place was scummy.

(And he called me "big brain," which, wolf. Seriously, stronger wolves who are encountering me for the first time keep doing this.)

 

[Wam]

Vote: Swiss

Hey Swiss you're boring af.

I was just wondering if you somi vote was showing you couldnt be a partner. Then doubted that as you bussed hard as scum before. Then you throw that swiss vote in there.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Also the goal being different doesn’t change the issue: there are just some things that are +town that become more nai when I know it’s in a player’s in game repertoire (e.g filling a quasi ic role, not acknowledging questions, metagaming, etc), and that’s one of them

 

[fontisian]

I was just wondering if you somi vote was showing you couldnt be a partner. Then doubted that as you bussed hard as scum before. Then you throw that swiss vote in there.

This is part of why I think Wam is town, btw.

 

[Eido]

Eido (2): Swiss, Bessie
Somitomi (2): Wam, Gorf
Fontisian (1): Laserguy
Maven (1): Eido

Not Voting (4): Sabrar, Maven, Fontisian, Somitomi

Hm, I feel like there's little interest in Maven. The room feels happier going for Somi over him. Having a good think.

I can be around til like 2-3am (GMT) tonight.

 

[Eido]

This is part of why I think Wam is town, btw.

I feel Town!Wam would vote here too, though. There's a couple of instances in the thread where he's approached you like this, and hasn't voted.

In Apex it felt different.