Decisive Games NewD3 Mafia (GAME OVER!)

[Eido]

I am curious how you came to the conclusion that the somi wagon was pure and scum must be in one of the three people on vanity wagons. Why couldn't scum be bussing?

Scum might bus, yes. But a successful bus empowers the Town Tracker or Jailkeeper to become some sort of pseudo-cop. They’re not really incentivised to make it a successful bus. So I expect reads around Somi to be more ‘null’ right now, or at least on the softer-side of a bus.

 

[Eido]

You even go as far as wanting to be sued. (lol).

Sidenote: I will be suing you.

 

[Eido]

He's avoiding talking about me expect when absolutely necessary because he needs Today to be a Laser v fonti Day, not a fonti v Eido Day.

No, I said it's probably not you, and it could be Bessie/Laser, and that's where my head is at. I haven't reread properly with the kills in mind but have made a start. Will deep dive tonight most likely.

 

[fontisian]

No but really, Fonti:

Towards the moment we actually yeeted, I was thinking about Somi being a misyeet. You, Swiss & Sabrar all said Somi gave you possible Town pings, and you even go as far as wanting to be sued. (lol).

The other thing I'm thinking about right up to the yeet was that Swiss was one of my weaker Town reads. It's 6am and I see Sabrar vote with you, along with Maven thinking about it, who are all likely to be Town. Suddenly I’m anxious and thinking about you being correct on your read because you have 100s games experience. Day 1 looks like a crapshoot, so why not?

I make the switch, it’s 1 minute to deadline, I switch back. It's obviously not happening, and it's obviously a little bit playful. I was not trying to save Somi as his buddy. This is the behaviour you need to go back and re-evaluate. The buddy is more likely to be calmer, more controlled, and less “SAVE SOMI”, because the Somi situation was obviously futile.

Look, I know you think that's what you should have done, that you should have played it cool, but in the moment it's not that easy to keep a level head.

I'll note that you're saying the partner is supposed to be calm and less "Save Somi," implying that you think they would bus, but you're pushing for people who did not bus and stayed on non-viable wagons through eod. I think this comes from your knowledge that you, as scum, did try to bus before ****ing it up.

 

[Eido]

If Scum chose to bus, I'm expecting this is what the bussing behaviour would look like, just to clarify.

 

[fontisian]

Scum might bus, yes. But a successful bus empowers the Town Tracker or Jailkeeper to become some sort of pseudo-cop. They’re not really incentivised to make it a successful bus. So I expect reads around Somi to be more ‘null’ right now, or at least on the softer-side of a bus.

Mmmhmm. Yeah, this is exactly what you did, isn't it? When Somi was run up you tried to push Maven instead and implied that the lack of interest in Maven over Somi meant wolves wanted Somi dead. When Maven claimed and no one bit on the my Swiss push, you felt like the Somi yeet was pretty much inevitable, so you voted there. And when you saw an opportunity to save him, when Sabrar voted for Swiss and Maven was considering it, you jumped.

I also just don't believe you when you said that vote was meant to be playful.

Swiss , this is why Eido didn't shoot Maven, by the way. As the last scum, he was very worried about a town tracker or jailkeeper and knew he needed to shoot them last Night. He understands exactly how dangerous either of those roles would have been to him. You saying the shots had to have come from someone with experience is vastly underestimating Eido.

Also, also, he has these thoughts about how the tracker or jailkeeper would be a pseudo-cop fully fleshed out because they were so immediately relevant to him, the last wolf.

 

[fontisian]

Note that at no point did Eido actually push for a Somi yeet, and most of the points he brought up were against it or testing the waters against someone else (Maven, Bessie, Wam).

 

[fontisian]

I'm going to level with you guys.

I think this is a slamdunk case. Eido is 99% the last scum and we should kill him Today. If you all run up Laser, I will not move my vote to maj him, even if that means I get yeeted.

Wam , you may quote this. If we yeet Eido and the game doesn't end, you should yeet me Tomorrow. If I argue against it, quote this post.

 

[Eido]

This feels like a Carrie scene in Homeland, for those that watch it.

I'm going to spend time now reading the game.

 

[Eido]

I'm hoping there will be a follow-up soon, because this interjection from Maven is otherwise really random.

What did you think Maven could follow up with here?

 

[LaserGuy]

Laser, this is a kind request that you extract your head from your ass and look over Eido again.

I will look him over this evening.

What did you think Maven could follow up with here?

Reads, analysis, content. Something that would allow us to sort his slot.

 

[bessie]

In the night, Sabrar (Town Tracker) was killed, as was Gorf (Vanilla Town).

 

[bessie]

Seriously?

I was ****ing around and seeing what would happen. I didn't seriously think Swiss was going to get yeeted off me being like "Join the wagon of a lifetime!" three minutes to deadline.

Why not? Somitomi was a weak scum read or a compromise for almost everyone.
Were you also screwing around with your Swiss case in #395?

This actually connects to another reason Eido is a wolf: He said the setup was B1 (following up that it might be B2 in another post) after Maven claimed. If you look at how the setups are done:

Nope you have this reversed which is why I thought Eido was the jailkeeper.

#410

So it's B2

#414

Or B1.

Sidenote: We should actually make sure Maven is confirmed before I waste a lot of time arguing. Basically, if you are not Maven and are a pr, please claim. Otherwise, Maven is confirmed.

@Maven89 please claim your target so we can lay this to rest. Was it Gorf?

Sorry, I don't really understand what you're asking.

And I don’t see how you’re failing to get Swiss’s point.

https://i.imgur.com/9hRi2jN.mp4

It's too late to learn how to make this show up as a gif.

bessie , enjoy.

Awww that dog is so cute!

Re shroop. I never heard this term. I looked it up and Urban Dictionary says “to act or pretend you are hitting a dog” so I just thought it meant somitomi was swatting me on the nose. Woof.

I did some of my own reading I came to conclusion it was going to be between Bessie > Sabrar > LaserGuy

Cool your reads are still bad.

It's very likely not Wam.

https://smashboards.com/threads/dec...adline-4-27-12-15-am-mdt.513025/post-24364199

^ Somi wasn’t the obvious choice yet. I don't believe Scum!Wam throws Somi under the bus like this when Maven/Myself were on the chopping block. So currently leaning no on Wam.

Why not? How do you know it's not in his range?

Swiss sort of concedes to his lack of direction, and throws a vote on Somi for the sake of it, right? And then just goes to bed.

Scum!Swiss probably exploits Gorf & Sabrar more to consider Maven/myself as stronger yeet options over Somi.

Swiss, you also didn’t make a circus out of Maven’s claim like you did Wiisp’s in Werewolves. This is probably a good sign. I'm not thinking about you toDay.

Ima telling you again you shouldn't be trying to meta read an experienced player off of one game.

Also worth noting that in Eido's first towngame, which we lost, a confirmed town was kept alive for Days because scum were prioritizing killing other people, so he's seen an example of this before.

And Eido's also forgetting that in that same game my partner shot me for town cred. See above comment about Wam not bussing.

Swiss I'm narrowing down. And on the phone.

Basically, it's probably not Fonti. it could be. But I don't think it is right now.

I think it's between Bessie & LaserGuy.

They both have had Somi hovering around the null and their read of him is handled carefully throughout the game. Simples.

I had somi on my town list. At least get your facts correct.

If Laser claims VT we should kill him toDay

Oh right. What should he claim that would perhaps be believable? Militant atheist?

Swiss what's caught your eye on Bessie not being scum here? You've had experience with her?

She's the player we need to make a call on early toDay.

If we do that and accept you/Wam/Maven as Town from yesterday's wagon play, we'll be good.

Like I don't believe you are trying to figure the game out at all with this remark. You've cleared fonti, Swiss, Wam, and Maven what is left to figure out, just me and LaserGuy? And you're setting up Swiss to "convince" you to clear me.

Ok, I like this post. The entire post has a disjoint on Somi - it has a pre post edit on him, which looks like a clue they're unaligned. it lists him as being low on her scum list whilst being in the 'will not yeet' category. The whole post feels scatty & uncoordinated, kinda.

Don’t clear me for the pre-post edit, it would be the easiest thing to fake.
And I’ve already gone over this. There are two scum in this game, I had two scum reads and the remainder are town.

^ The 'pre post' edit is here, btw.

The more I read it the more I'm wavering tho. I dislike that she mentions he has a townie vibe with non-townie content. If I recall, Somi's read on Bessie was also similarly non-committal. Need to think about this more comfortably because I'm at work just dipping in and out of content.

Townie vibe with non townie content describes somitomi's meta. And I've already gone over this too in #489:

I think that using meta to read somitomi isn’t going to work. His content is pretty consistent as any alignment. And by that I mean he can be townie and/or scummy as either alignment, and it’s not something he is trying to do, he just is, if you can understand what I’m trying to explain. +0

Oh, and it appears I have an unanswered question to Eido in #489, please reply.

Assume Scum!Bessie sees her buddy, Somi, about to die. Why keep repeating this? She says it here and quotes it at the end of Day. It looks like she genuinely believes her logic and isn't afraid to shout it.

Because my logic is sound. And I wanted to end the day with absolute clarity in where my head was at so that I can’t be accused of what you are trying to accuse me of.

This votecount brought to you by Eido shooting the people who wanted to kill him.

Hey what about me me me??

No, I said it's probably not you, and it could be Bessie/Laser, and that's where my head is at. I haven't reread properly with the kills in mind but have made a start. Will deep dive tonight most likely.

Yes time to give the thread a nice impartial read and see where it leads you! Not to fonti anyway, which is interesting.

 

[fontisian]

* This votecount brought to you by Eido shooting most of the people who wanted to kill him.

The original case on Swiss was serious, yeah. The part that wasn't serious was me at eod being like "Towncred! Get your Towncred!" etc.

 

[LaserGuy]

Eido Pages 1-4

Spoiler

Ok, I do now. To be honest I was thinking 80% Town, 20% Scum unrelated to the player count. My bad.

I still want to see an example of the scenario though

I feel that Eido's persistence/belligerence on the point about the scum quickhammer in this opening sequence still strikes me as townie, as does that he doesn't understand the 8/10 comment. Though it is interesting that he missed this latter point but immediately understood the implication of how a JK/tracker would be problematic of a lone scum.

Just because people rarely fall into Grand Canyon it's not a good idea to walk right up to the edge and sit there.

somi snarks at Eido.

If it's not one of the vocal players (Gorf or Swiss), it's one of the players on the side of the discussion using it as leverage. Somitomi / Wam? I'll post some reasons next.

Eido interprets somi snark as somi pushing him.

Alright, about Gorf's scum tell.

It's bad.

I have never seen Scum make quick-hammer plays like he's suggesting as early as Page 1. I'm sure it's happened, but I've never seen it happen.

Why is it unreasonable of me to see examples of this in action? Keep in mind this is my 3rd game.

Gorf says I was too 'comfortable' placing Swiss at L-2, and that quick-hammer situations have happened in the past.

I need an example to be able to measure what Gorf is saying is coming from some form of reality/experience, or if he's exaggerating certain aspects instead for the sake of pushing on me.

Does that make sense? This is @ everyone.

I feel like Eido's interest in the quickhammer scenario and how it relates to this game is probably legitimate. It comes across as townie to me but I could envision scum getting stuck on this sort of point for players of a certain disposition (e.g. Sabrar).

This vote looks opportunistic.

Have any particular questions of mine pinged you?

I like that Eido is very thorough with his follow ups.

Swiss

The biggest clue to me right now lies in those leveraging the momentum Gorf created to build a wagon. This means in the region of the following players:

Yourself / Somitomi / Maven / Wam / And now Bessie.

somitomi's positioning in this list is kind of interesting. It looks like it is chronological, but somi/Maven are out of order, I guess.

Swiss Again, I'm looking here for Scum:
Swiss / Gorf

Somitomi / Wam / Maven / Bessie

Not ordered.

The ordering here is different but somi first again.

Somitomi's entrance pinged me. It fanned flames in my direction without adding much value to the conversation.

Maven looks rational, but this post pinged me:

Decisive Games NewD3 Mafia (GAME OVER!)

You’re very comfortable for a guy who parked his vote on a wagon at L-2 with less than a page into the game ? You feel Swiss is in danger? What did you think could happen?

smashboards.com

As it looks really flexible, like he's a vulture circling prospective wagons. He’s in a similar space to Gellnick for me in the last game in terms of vibe.

Wam is very difficult for me overall. I feel he’s different here. I dislike his vote.

Bessie’s come in and given me -10 points. This is strong relative to the whole cast and feels forced. She must really hate me here. Why?

For Gorf / Swiss, I'm trying to work where their pushes are coming from in their experience. I think Gorf might have made up his scum tell to push. Swiss looks clearer in his thought process, more reasonable.

Ordering here doesn't match the one above despite this being the same post.

@Sabrar I don't know. I would be looking in to tone maybe to differentiate - if a post looks unnatural or awkward. I don't quite know what's a good metric yet for finding scum so I rely on a lot of content being made so I can watch what's going on and then judge.

Finding it best to make a zone of players that could contain Scum, and then start filtering down as more content appears. As it's still page 3, there's little to go off of outside of people talking about my wagon. That event looks to have clues, which is why I'm focused on it.

Do you mind answering my #131?

I don't think Eido's process is correct here, but I like that he's thinking about the process.

tl;dr mostly this is focused on the interactions between Eido and Gorf. I like Eido in this sequence for the most part. I did notice that there were a few cases where Eido lists a bunch of players pushing him several times and the ordering keeps changing except somi is always in front. Might be a null tell but it's interesting.


Eido page 5-8

Spoiler

Wow, that's a pretty strong read on Eido. I don't disagree with most of your points, but I don't recall you

somi questions bessie's read on Eido.

Wait, I was doing what? And I didn't even notice? Wow, I'm a mafia god. Seriously though, anyone calling me one of the active players isn't following this game.

QFT, Eido narrowing the scum-pool to those particular players while repeatedly pointing out that the game barely started is some strage logic.

I kind of had the impression that I've seen Eido around here before, but multiple people talk like Eido is new.

Eido How much mafia experience do you have in general and how much of that is forum mafia?

somi talks a lot about Eido here. I could believe this is distancing.

EBWOP because I forgot to finish this sentence:

Wow, that's a pretty strong read on Eido. I don't disagree with most of your points, but I don't recall you having such a strong scumread so early. Or are the other reads extremely weak?

Shroop #1

This makes me feel good about Fonti.

She reaches out to halt pressure developing on me throughout the game. We see this against Gorf, but also against Bessie, Wam & Sabrar.

Does Scum!Fonti follow all that with ‘actually, he’s a weak Town read now’ ?

I’m leaning no. To me, it looks like she’s thinking and re-evaluating my position in the Town core she plans to build, and looks authentic?

Back to work.

This evaluation of fonti is pretty nuanced.

Not quite in the game, sadly, I have to read again over the weekend even though I swore I'm gonna stop re-reading the entire thread. At the moment I feel like Eido is the standard new player with a good chance of flipping town and not providing much information, but I've just been burned by this.

somi says Eido probably Town but also hedges.

So I think Scum would still use Gorf's push as an opportunity. I wouldn’t necessarily expect it to be as obvious with a vote. More like eyeing up the option so it’s available to them either now or in the future. Maven & Bessie fall in to this specific category.

Noting somi is dropped from this discussion whereas he was part of it in the earlier section.

Alright, makes sense.

You - Town Lean, seems carefree.

Fonti - Town Lean, agree with lots of posts. Methods feel like building up rather than breaking down.

Sabrar - Town Lean, seems totally in his own lane.

Bessie - Scum Lean. Points feels arbitrary, faked.

Maven - Scum Lean. Feels sneaky.

I'm curious how he got this read on Maven but doesn't have anything on somi here.

How do you go about solving someone like Somitomi, who gives really little?

Eido had a lot of opinions about somi earlier so this seems a little out of place.

I was actually surprised by how strong it appears to be. I know bessie's the kind to tunnel, but in my recollection she's usually ... friendlier towards new players, at least on D1 so Eido being her only strong read either way is odd.

EBWOP again

I feel like this is needlessly pedantic and I don't know why you think your interpretation of the wording is exactly what Eido meant.

Shroop #2, more discussion of Eido with bessie.

Well, I had less time for this game over the weekend than anticipated, so here are some weakly ordered impressions:

YEAH

Maven - didn't post much, but us lurkers have to stick together.

Sabrar - has been asking pertinent questions, although he seems to have taken the backseat this game a little.

Fontisian - like how they've been trying to help sort the Gorf v. Eido debate out. The absolute confidence they show rubs me up the wrong way, but I couldn't read Xivii at all because of this.

LaserGuy - seems to engage with everyone and think about the responses.

Bessie - feels like her town self, although I think some of her points on Eido are nitpicky even for a bessie tunnel.

Eido - I get like 90% newbie town vibes here, they've been fairly open about their opinions and don't seem to be afraid from drawing attention. Dismissing the possibility of a quickhammer is weird coming from a fairly new player though.

Wam - feels kinda scummy like they always do, so I'm bumping to neutral. I'm not a fan of the "scum are probably lurking" take, but that's kinda personal.

Gorf - has been focusing on Eido and saying very little about anyone else, which just feels off to me. On the other hand, that'd be kind of risky for mafia to do

Swiss - spent most of his time on Eido as well, and the non-committal reads list at the end of #207 pings me a little.

BOO

The ordering of this list doesn't really make a lot of sense to me compared to what is written about each player. Also a LOT of these are referenced to how the player has interacted with Eido. Eido himself is very low in the list despite somi's townread on him being quite strong.

Not much of interest from Eido in this section, but this is where the bulk of somi's content is. I honestly hadn't really paid attention to how much time somi spends talking about Eido. A significant number of his reads reference the early interactions with Eido as their reasoning, and he spends a lot of time arguing with bessie about Eido. Definitely get a buddy vibe.


Page 9-Eod1

Spoiler

I will not yeet: Gorf, Fonti
I would not like to yeet: Sabrar, LaserGuy, Swiss
I would consider yeeting: Wam
I would like to yeet: Bessie, Maven, Somi

And yes Somi is purely lack of content/lurking. Content feels non-committal. Not a lot to draw from.

Just noting this explanation.

Hm, I feel like there's little interest in Maven. The room feels happier going for Somi over him. Having a good think.

I can be around til like 2-3am (GMT) tonight.

Noncommital on somi despite similar feelings on somi/Maven

I will not yeet: Sabrar, Fontisian
I would not like to yeet: LaserGuy, bessie
I'm ambivalent about yeeting: wam, Eido, Maven,
I would consider yeeting:
I would like to yeet: Gorf, Swiss

Vote: Swiss

In my recollection you've always been the person to give new players advice in thread, especially if they were struggling and I don't see much of that now. Instead, Eido finds himself under the scrutiny of a bessie tunnel in addition to all the other eyes already on him.

And yeah, I extrapolated from the numbers you provided (and accurately it seems), because sans analysis, they were the best indication of your opinion available.

More arguing with bessie over Eido from somi.

I'm scumreading Gorf and Swiss for focusing so much of their attention on one person, not for scumreading one of my townreads (although admittedly those reads hinge Eido being town). In general, my reads on D1 are decidedly not consistent insofar as I don't care much if my scumreads all scumread each other, because I don't expect most of it to be right. I just try to evaluate everyone individually and then sort them into a town-mafia gradient, because my reads aren't enough to clear anyone by association.

somi doesn't like Gorf/Swiss focusing too much on Eido.

Here he's kinda just pardoned me and somi, and thinks Maven is a PR. And doesn't look that meddling. He's reacting to Fonti weirdly tho

Eido thinking about moving to Swiss here.

Or B1.

I'm unsure how to read this. My initial impression was that this was possibly a PR slip from Eido as bessie had suggested, but that is apparently not the case.

Is anyone up for a switch to Bessie?

Vote: Bessie

I will switch to Somi if that doesn't take off. Again, down with one of Bessie / Wam / Somi right now.

Eido moves to bessie.

Also Fonti, I'll follow up with you tomorrow morning as it's sleep time. WIll try and check in at deadline too.

Vote: Somitomi

Moves to somi.

I'm vanilla town, not much to claim there.

Weird that somi didn't claim a PR here.

Vote: Swiss

Just do it. Believe in the fonti

This looks very bad in retrospect. Way too eager.

Ok that's true.

Vote: Somitomi

Votes somi.

Eido explores a couple of different options for counterwagons to somi without much success. His EoD vote on Swiss looks very suss.


Pages D2start-presentish

Spoiler

Fonti don't put too much stock on the vote switch yesterday.

Immediately defensive.

The buddy needs to play sensible there because they don’t want to draw the attention of a Tracker or Jailkeeper, especially if they’re the sole killer left.

Quick, wreckless play was a bad move there, but not scummy. Move on

I did some of my own reading I came to conclusion it was going to be between Bessie > Sabrar > LaserGuy

But let me reread with the Night kills in mind.

Trying to dismiss the vote switch. I don't like the implicit assumption that scum must be off wagon.

It's very likely not Wam.

I agree with this analysis.

Swiss sort of concedes to his lack of direction, and throws a vote on Somi for the sake of it, right? And then just goes to bed.

I agree with this as well. These two are kind of gimmes though.

Basically, it's probably not Fonti. it could be. But I don't think it is right now.

This explanation feels lacking.

I think it's between Bessie & LaserGuy.

They both have had Somi hovering around the null and their read of him is handled carefully throughout the game. Simples.

Eido finds it strange that the people who know somi best (including Sabrar) are more cautious in their evaluation of him than people who have played with him once or never and were evaluating him solely on activity. Okay.

I think LaserGuy likelier makes the kill on Sabrar:

Eido hasn't answered my question about this.

No but really, Fonti:

Towards the moment we actually yeeted, I was thinking about Somi being a misyeet. You, Swiss & Sabrar all said Somi gave you possible Town pings, and you even go as far as wanting to be sued. (lol).

The other thing I'm thinking about right up to the yeet was that Swiss was one of my weaker Town reads. It's 6am and I see Sabrar vote with you, along with Maven thinking about it, who are all likely to be Town. Suddenly I’m anxious and thinking about you being correct on your read because you have 100s games experience. Day 1 looks like a crapshoot, so why not?

I make the switch, it’s 1 minute to deadline, I switch back. It's obviously not happening, and it's obviously a little bit playful. I was not trying to save Somi as his buddy. This is the behaviour you need to go back and re-evaluate. The buddy is more likely to be calmer, more controlled, and less “SAVE SOMI”, because the Somi situation was obviously futile.

Feels defensive.

Eido defensive about his late vote switch to Swiss, but quickly pivots to his current push where he's focusing on the off wagon and softclearing everyone (including himself) who was on wagon.


In isolation, I like a lot of Eido's content. He puts in a lot of effort and while I don't necessarily agree with where he's going with a lot of his thought processes, he does a good job making it clear how he's evaluating things and why.

That said, there are a lot of interesting interactions between Eido and somi, going in both directions. somi spends an awful lot of time talking about Eido and how other players are evaluating him, and Eido spends a good portion of EoD1 looking for viable counterwagons to somi and doesn't seem to have a consistent picture of where somi fits into, e.g. the early pressure on him.

Pretty good chance they're buddies. Need to spend some time thinking about fonti.

Unvote

for now.

 

[LaserGuy]

Eido , I'd like to hear your answer to #631.

 

[Swiss]

Odds on game ending if we yeet Eido and Laser?

 

[Swiss]

#HBC | FrozeηFlame what alignment is Eido

 

[Eido]

I'm cool with dying. We got the numbers to win this. But I'd prefer Laser toDay, so please re-evaluate because my death will waste time.

 

[Eido]

Just some bits I picked up on reread:

https://smashboards.com/threads/dec...adline-4-27-12-15-am-mdt.513025/post-24365116

Bessie mentions coaching here. She mentioned in another post that Fonti sent me an article about power wolfing, and I totally confirm that. As scatty as Bessie is, she is clearly not imagining her approach to newbies. So I can see how she his developing her read on me.

https://smashboards.com/threads/dec...adline-4-27-12-15-am-mdt.513025/post-24366640

These thoughts would be reserved for plotting behind-the-scenes. I don't think it's Bessie right now.

 

[Eido]

Basically here's my attempted solve before you guys consider ejecting me in to the abyss:

I’ve made a decision on Wam, Swiss & Maven being Town from the way they handled their votes (or claim in Maven's case).

I believe Fonti is Town because she was one of my strongest Town reads Day 1, next to Gorf & Sabrar. They flipped Town, so I trust in myself here.

This leaves Bessie & Laserguy purely by POE. On reread, Bessie is looking Town.

So this leaves LaserGuy by POE. There are a couple of posts from him where I can see potential scummity scum.

 

[Swiss]

Eido it's looking like we yeet you toDay, and Laser toMorrow - if ok with you?

I'm happy with this

vote eido

 

[Swiss]

I give my word Laser goes toMorrow

 

[Eido]

What benefit would there be for scum!me to tip my hand that I know Sabrar is a PR?

You didn't tip your hand that you know Sabrar is a PR. You said his engagement levels were low, and continued to bring up his activity levels.

You noticed his activity levels were an issue, and Scum!You, knowing Sabrar is Town, sees this behaviour as a potential PR.

 

[Eido]

Eido it's looking like we yeet you toDay, and Laser toMorrow - if ok with you?

I'm happy with this

vote eido

Yeah I'm cool, and sad. It's been super fun.

Please consider yeeting Laser. If he's Town, I would say it gets trickier after that.

 

[Eido]

bessie See #661 for how I've been attempting to solve.

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

OFFICIAL VOTE COUNT v2.1

Eido (2): Fontisian, Swiss
Fontisian (1): Wam
Laserguy (1): Eido

Not Voting (3): Bessie, Maven, Laserguy

With 7 alive, it takes 4 votes to eliminate!

 

[fontisian]

I think Bessie is a wolf laying the groundwork for Laser to claim a role that is too close to mine (Belligerent Agnostic).

 

[Wam]

Sorry busy day. I will settle for eido if we.policy eliminate font tomorrow.

Request prod or replacement of maven

 

[fontisian]

I'm going to be doing a reread, just because Eido being resigned to death makes me a bit nervous (probably for no reason, this attitude could easily come from caught scum, and I'm being overly cautious).

No hammers until I'm done, please and thank you.

 

[Eido]

Ok, when you reread, please consider:

• The Somi situation was futile. Scum are not saving him at 1 minute to deadline.
• They probably can do, just not here, because the tracker evolves in to a cop.
• You pushed for Swiss, Sabrar made the switch vote, and Maven considered it. AKA all of Eido’s Town reads.

Peace out.

 

[bessie]

Odds on game ending if we yeet Eido and Laser?

50/50

Just some bits I picked up on reread:

https://smashboards.com/threads/dec...adline-4-27-12-15-am-mdt.513025/post-24365116

Bessie mentions coaching here. She mentioned in another post that Fonti sent me an article about power wolfing, and I totally confirm that. As scatty as Bessie is, she is clearly not imagining her approach to newbies. So I can see how she his developing her read on me.

I’ve seen new players react extremely calmly to early votes. I’ve seen new players freak out over a single vote. I have come to the conclusion that neither in itself is alignment indicative.
I didn’t know fonti had sent you the article I know she posted one; your content in this game made me suspect you had read it.
If you’re trying to turn my screws by calling me scatty it won’t work. I am the totally stereotypical and self-declared absent-minded scientist. I lose my glasses when I’m wearing them and have a Tile tracker on my keys.

Basically here's my attempted solve before you guys consider ejecting me in to the abyss:

I’ve made a decision on Wam, Swiss & Maven being Town from the way they handled their votes (or claim in Maven's case).

I believe Fonti is Town because she was one of my strongest Town reads Day 1, next to Gorf & Sabrar. They flipped Town, so I trust in myself here.

This leaves Bessie & Laserguy purely by POE. On reread, Bessie is looking Town.

So this leaves LaserGuy by POE. There are a couple of posts from him where I can see potential scummity scum.

My issue with this is your approach to reevaluation.
1. You don’t want to reevaluate fonti because you you were right on Sabrar and Gorf so therefore you must also be correct on fonti. There must be a term for this kind of logic but it's not coming to me right now.
2. You reason that by PoE LaserGuy must be scum, then you go back and are able to see some questionable posts, but that’s because now scum tells are what you are looking for when you reevaluate the posts.

I give my word Laser goes toMorrow

I’m just going to say now that I don’t see myself voting for LaserGuy tomorrow so scum should probably kill me tonight if they want to try to make this happen.

You didn't tip your hand that you know Sabrar is a PR. You said his engagement levels were low, and continued to bring up his activity levels.

You noticed his activity levels were an issue, and Scum!You, knowing Sabrar is Town, sees this behaviour as a potential PR.

This is good I like this post. +1

I think Bessie is a wolf laying the groundwork for Laser to claim a role that is too close to mine (Belligerent Agnostic).

Do I look like a frickin wolf??

I'm going to be doing a reread, just because Eido being resigned to death makes me a bit nervous (probably for no reason, this attitude could easily come from caught scum, and I'm being overly cautious).

No hammers until I'm done, please and thank you.

Sure take your time constructing your LaserGuy case.

 

[Maven89]

Yes, I targeted Gorf.

So coming into today, my gut was screaming Swiss. He seemed to be way more laid back today, not attempting to drive any lynch while seeing how the winds were blowing, and I knew he'd kill Gorf if mafia. I did a huge re-read of his day 1 play. While he did have an odd relationship with Somi, including doing a town list where he somehow lowered Somi to most scummy from town despite never once mentioning the player, Somi including a very weak point about Swiss and never following it up, Swiss then suddenly saying Somi was a town read, Swiss pushing me to claim (though I claimed cause of Gorf), I came away from it deciding Swiss wasn't the play. If this was a 3 or 4 person mafia team, I'd 100% have Swiss in the pile, but with just one more team mate Swiss did not come off as an immediate Yeet. Again, my gut was screaming Swiss this day, I spent about three hours combing through his posts and the thread convinced I'd come up with a strong push, but the thread convinced me otherwise.

I'll do a strong re-read of Eido and Laser, tbh I always found Laser hard to read, he seems to just do whatever he wants whether town or mafia, and I've read him scummy before for being so.

If Font is scum, Font will win. I hate Font's personal attacks and general nastiness, but that is almost always a town player feeling bitter or having ego issues. If Font is scum faking it, then I guess bravo? I'm not voting Font anytime soon.

I don't see Eido as being really resigned to death, not nearly as much as Fonti seems to, and don't see Eido's "ok if you must lynch me do so but please lynch this guy instead" as anything but pure null. I also don't find his sudden vote of Swiss last night to be telling of anything. No one had somi as a hard scum read, Somi was really just the best of the options. I would have 100% done a mad scramble to Swiss if we had time and more players, just to see how different players reacted in order to gather more information.

Bessie feels town but I'll admit I haven't paid too much attention to the slot.

Wam is pure null and I feel like he always is.

 

[Maven89]

Did anyone find Sabrar hinting at being a PR? If I had to kill two random people at night as mafia I'd probably have targeted the same just based off skill, but I'm curious if Sabrar slipped somewhere

 

[fontisian]

Uh, sorry. I haven't been trying to make any personal attacks. And haven't been bitter either, I'm having a good time. Sorry for giving off that impression.

 

[Maven89]

It's cool, we're dog people now

 

[Swiss]

Unvote

 

[LaserGuy]

I believe Fonti is Town because she was one of my strongest Town reads Day 1, next to Gorf & Sabrar. They flipped Town, so I trust in myself here.

This logic is very strange. Reads on Town players are independent of each other. Being correct on Sabrar and Gorf doesn't imply that your townread of any other player is any more or less likely to be correct.

1. You don’t want to reevaluate fonti because you you were right on Sabrar and Gorf so therefore you must also be correct on fonti. There must be a term for this kind of logic but it's not coming to me right now.

I think it's called a Hot Hand Fallacy.

Wam is pure null and I feel like he always is.

You don't feel that Wam's position on the somi wagon is Town-indicative?

 

[LaserGuy]

I think I've convinced myself that this is probably correct. In an ideal world I think I'd still prefer to yeet fonti first, but I'm willing to accept the possibility that what I'm seeing is just my paranoia about her.

Vote: Eido

 

[Wam]

L-1 I'm happy to hammer but I know font st least wanted more time.