Decisive Games NewD3 Mafia (GAME OVER!)

[fontisian]

I feel Town!Wam would vote here too, though. There's a couple of instances in the thread where he's approached you like this, and hasn't voted.

In Apex it felt different.

He is already voting for Somi, just like he was voting for Bessie when he accused me of being teamed with her in Apex.

 

[fontisian]

For the record I think Maven is probably scummier than Somi at this point, I just don't want to yeet a pr who can't claim.

 

[Eido]

Thinking about it, Wam opened the thread mentioning Sabrar and yourself teaming up on a tunnel.

He's aware that scenario has happened, and could happen.

Does Scum!Wam prod you enough times in this way, and risk that scenario happening again? Probably not. I don't know.

 

[fontisian]

Thinking about it, Wam opened the thread mentioning Sabrar and yourself teaming up on a tunnel.

He's aware that scenario has happened, and could happen.

Does Scum!Wam prod you enough times in this way, and risk that scenario happening again? Probably not. I don't know.

He knew it made me suspect him last time, so probably not, but hard to say for sure. I think if you look at his overall play he's very much in his own lane, pushing the things he wants to push, and you can see his thought process working in the subtext of his posts.

 

[fontisian]

I think I'm being overly cautious on Sabrar and he's probably just town.

 

[fontisian]

In reference to this post:

I'm leaning town on Swiss because he's not reading the thread with the attention that I would expect from scum and he doesn't care. Examples are #57 which is basically the same question I asked in #29 and the answer he gave in #221 which shows he is not keeping track of players and does not check the thread before posting.

I am leaning towards scum on Eido because in my experience a public appeal for validation comes more often from scum than town. And by that I'm referring to the following phrases:




Eido btw I'm curious why you haven't replied to #57 or the reminder in #108.

I have town leans on fonti and Gorf but these are mostly due to overall tone and good content, no specific thing stood out for me.

It's very much against the stream of people townreading Eido at the time (me, Laser, Swiss, Maven, even Gorf was backing off) and I can see how the reasoning would make sense to Sabrar.

 

[fontisian]

It's not townie, I very specifically said I'd consider it null. What's so scummy about simply saying "I'm town"?


Not quite in the game, sadly, I have to read again over the weekend even though I swore I'm gonna stop re-reading the entire thread. At the moment I feel like Eido is the standard new player with a good chance of flipping town and not providing much information, but I've just been burned by this.

I also kind of like this from Somi.

 

[fontisian]

Sabrar bessie Both Laser and I are hard townreading Eido and we can't both be wolves with him. We're both good players, please take this as a sign you shouldn't yeet Eido today.

 

[somitomi]

I will not yeet: Sabrar, Fontisian
I would not like to yeet: LaserGuy, bessie
I'm ambivalent about yeeting: wam, Eido, Maven,
I would consider yeeting:
I would like to yeet: Gorf, Swiss

Vote: Swiss

Where am I not being friendly? And I haven’t given my analysis yet you are extrapolating. -1

In my recollection you've always been the person to give new players advice in thread, especially if they were struggling and I don't see much of that now. Instead, Eido finds himself under the scrutiny of a bessie tunnel in addition to all the other eyes already on him.
And yeah, I extrapolated from the numbers you provided (and accurately it seems), because sans analysis, they were the best indication of your opinion available.

Can you explain why both of your scumreads are for them scumreading someone you're not even really townreading?

I'm scumreading Gorf and Swiss for focusing so much of their attention on one person, not for scumreading one of my townreads (although admittedly those reads hinge Eido being town). In general, my reads on D1 are decidedly not consistent insofar as I don't care much if my scumreads all scumread each other, because I don't expect most of it to be right. I just try to evaluate everyone individually and then sort them into a town-mafia gradient, because my reads aren't enough to clear anyone by association.

 

[fontisian]

The town are:
1. Bessie. Putting a ton of effort into the game, clearly trying to think through things. Don't agree with where she's poking around or all of her logic, but I think it makes sense to her.
2. Eido. This dude is trying so hard to figure out the scum of some of you guys are just steam rolling him. Look at his early posts. He's trying to figure out if scum are pushing him, he wants to understand people, he's making independent reads and he keeps trying. Leave him alone.
3. Laser. Town!Laser sees the weaker town (Eido in this game) getting ganged up on tries to protect him. His read of me is wrong, but it makes sense, and it fits with what he knows of my play. He pointed out that Swiss wasn't following up on his reads and trying to figure things out. His Bessie read is good, his Wam read is nuanced and paranoid and comes to a conclusion I agree with, his Gorf read is similar to my thought process when Gorf was moving away from Eido (he just didn't get the reasoning at the time), I think his somi read may also be good.
4. Gorf. Gorf is natural af. He believed his Eido push, and it developed as he was figuring out his own thoughts. His scum game was kind of **** tonally, and that's not eveident here. I've already talked about this a lot.
5. Wam. Remember that asking the next question thing? Wam keeps doing it. He keeps a lot of his progression to himself, but you can see the way it shifts and him looking for partners. This is town!Wam.

The probably town are:
6. Sabrar. He's in the background, yes. But his questions are nuanced and focused on getting useful information. He intercedes when he wants to figure things out or get a specific point across. He cared enough about the Eido addressing the thread thing to find examples from other games.
7. Somitomi. This is a feeling, sue me.

The scum are:
8. Maven. Eido is correct, he feels slimy. Him coming around Eido felt like an attempt to get ahead of the curve as the yeet pressure moved elsewhere not somthing he actually believed. His offer to replace out feels like a scum worried he's letting down his teammates.

And.
9. Swiss.

Stay tuned for a case.

 

[Swiss]

Crikey I have a few inactive days and all of a sudden I'm the wagon. Excellent detective work.

Happy with Wam, Font as town
Eye on Gorf, but probably town.
Eido town

Maven will probably flip scum.

Let me go and re-read my Somi stuff and genuinely cant remember my opinion on them

Vote Maven

 

[Swiss]

Also I'm not boring. I'm very fun. This game just hasn't started yet

 

[Swiss]

Yeah I'm fine with Somi staying alive.

So PoE we yeet Maven, I won't be lynched toDay so that's a stupid wagon.

Gonna make myself dinner and check in a little, deadline 7am for me so unless I set an alarm for 06:50...

 

[Swiss]

Bessie big question mark for me.
This -/+ points thing is fine but I don't always see the points making sense. But if I'm scum!Bessie, do I mix things up like this? Maybe, maybe I do.

Sabrar needs to do more but free pass since nothing has happened since early d1.

 

[Sabrar]

Sabrar bessie Both Laser and I are hard townreading Eido and we can't both be wolves with him. We're both good players, please take this as a sign you shouldn't yeet Eido today.

I've seen enough mistakes from good players to not rely entirely on their opinion. But I decided not to tunnel this game so I'm definitely taking it into consideration.

 

[Maven89]

What are the current votes?

 

[Sabrar]

Unofficial count:

Eido (1): Bessie
Somitomi (2): Wam, Gorf
Fontisian (1): Laserguy
Maven (2): Eido, Swiss
Swiss (2): somitomi, fontisian

Not Voting (2): Sabrar, Maven

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Crikey I have a few inactive days and all of a sudden I'm the wagon

Will look at the Swiss case/arguments more seriously when I have time to (likely toNight unfortunately) but this is exactly what it seems like to me

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

2. Eido. This dude is trying so hard to figure out the scum of some of you guys are just steam rolling him. Look at his early posts. He's trying to figure out if scum are pushing him, he wants to understand people, he's making independent reads and he keeps trying. Leave him alone.

this point is completely nullified when you take into account that he’s had the privilege of learning how to scumhunt as scum and look townie enough to get away with it. It doesn’t matter that it’s multiball, it’s genuine experience.

 

[fontisian]

this point is completely nullified when you take into account that he’s had the privilege of learning how to scumhunt as scum and look townie enough to get away with it. It doesn’t matter that it’s multiball, it’s genuine experience.

I will smack you.

It's different, because in the multiball he didn't know everyone's alignment, he only knew his partner, but if he were scum here he would know everyone's alignment. Get it?

 

[Swiss]

Eido town gorf move along

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

I do, but at the same time it’s still experience scumhunting as scum. Idk I think it’s more nuanced than that, in spite of the fact that pg 7/8 to now are more points in his favor than not imo.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

I think somi is the play

 

[Wam]

He is already voting for Somi, just like he was voting for Bessie when he accused me of being teamed with her in Apex.

Eido if I think font is linked to somi as font said why would I vote font here?

 

[fontisian]

Swiss why are you calling Gorf town now?

 

[Swiss]

Swiss why are you calling Gorf town now?

Im not

imgeoy town lean is my read

 

[fontisian]

Im not

imgeoy town lean is my read

Yes, but why.

 

[Swiss]

Well my main sus came from page 1/2

then I rethought

he reads townier

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

OFFICIAL VOTE COUNT v1.8

Somitomi (2): Wam, Gorf
Swiss (2): Fontisian, Somitomi
Maven (2): Eido, Swiss
Eido (1): Bessie
Fontisian (1): Laserguy

Not Voting (2): Sabrar, Maven

With 10 alive it takes 6 votes to eliminate!

Deadline is in approximately 10 hours

 

[Wam]

Well my main sus came from page 1/2

then I rethought

he reads townier

Do you have any scum reads now then? Or anyone below neutral?

 

[LaserGuy]

I will be around at deadline, but probably not too much before.

LaserGuy , I'm not sure why you think these reads are noncensusy? Keep in mind I don't think Somi was fully caught up when he posted them.

Sabrar more or less expressed the sentiment I felt on somi in his #340.

this is the type of thing I was looking for when I asked if I might’ve been missing something with my fonti townread in the face of others sussing her

Sorry, I was still fleshing out my thoughts on fonti at the time. She's a very strong Town player and a very strong wolf. There is very little that I trust to be completely outside of her scum range.

The Swiss vote is 100% serious, by the way. For his player archetype being boring is damning.

I am very interested to see where this goes.

Happy with Wam, Font as town

Why is fonti Town?

 

[LaserGuy]

What are the current votes?

I'm hoping there will be a follow-up soon, because this interjection from Maven is otherwise really random.

 

[Wam]

So I'm going in the office tomorrow so there is a chance I will be online 10 15 minutes before deadline. But its not definite.

 

[somitomi]

I'm gonna go to bed sometime and wake up in roughly 8,5 hours at which point I'll have a little time to check in.

And.
9. Swiss.

Stay tuned for a case.

Unexpected scum read on Swiss is unexpected, so I'm eagerly awaiting your case.

I do, but at the same time it’s still experience scumhunting as scum. Idk I think it’s more nuanced than that, in spite of the fact that pg 7/8 to now are more points in his favor than not imo.

I agree with Fonti, you can't do any scumhunting as scum if you know the entire setup. Multi-ball is way different and I think it's a lot easier for newbie scum in this regard.

 

[fontisian]

Swiss, a Wolf? (Yeah, Probably)

In this post we will be looking at most of Swiss's content post by post, because there's not a lot of it. That's not scummy right off the bat, the game is slow and a lot of people haven't done much. Check the spoiler for details.

Spoiler

Anyone else picking up on these Wam vibes?

He starts off with a Wam push, that's fine. I dislike the general question asking if other people are picking up on Wam vibes, as it seems unhelpful to town!Swiss, who would want to see if anyone jumps on board with him or argues that Wam is town of their own volition.

Eido feel free to do something yourself as opposed to waiting for other people

Very much dislike Wam

Decent advise to Eido.

Why do you need other people to post before you can have an opinion?

This question is obtuse. Eido wants more information than the first 20 posts of page one because he's trying to figure things out.

Why is an accidental hammer impossible to you?

This is a bad question. Eido obviously had no idea wtf Gorf was talking about when he freaked out about a potential hammer. The idea wasn't impossible to Eido, it just seemed unlikely because he'd never seen it happen and he didn't think anyone (scum or town) would actually do it.

This seems disingenuous -asking to meta read people who won’t even be in the game.

You're deliberately making it difficult for him. Seems like you’re more focussed on ‘looking correct’ than doing anything productive

Eido wasn't asking to meta read people not in the game, he wanted to understand what a Day1 quickhammer felt like exactly so he could gauge the reactions to him in this game. He was not making it difficult for Gorf, and his persistence in asking read towny. Swiss's "looking correct" argument has some validity.

Disagree Laser. Regardless of him not understanding game fundamentals - he’s not being honest

vote Eido

"He's not being honest"

What is this buzzwordy nonsense? I hate the wording in this whole post, feels very slimy towards Laser.

I do not

Now please explain why this means my accidental lynch when I got to l-2 was impossible

Second verse, same as the first.

Eido is asking questions for the sake of questions

Could Swiss get this impression? Maybe. It was like 50 posts in the game, what a thing to push on though. We all ask questions for the sake of questions at the beginning.

Misunderstanding is NAI, he’s noob so I can believe him just not correlating 8/10 town with the player count and simply realizing it as either alignment




as I said, I’m voting eido less on him putting Swiss at L-2 and more on him just being fine with parking the vote there even after it was stated as L-2. I’m reacting to his play more than the wagon itself. I mean Swiss himself is on it lol

Gorf posts this, this finally helps me click on what Gorf is trying to do.

Oh no Gorf are you scum

Swiss responds with this. He later claims this is because Gorf wasn't being as aggressive as he expects from town!Gorf, to which I say "what." This isn't Gorf bakcing down, this is him claims something people are using to townread Eido isn't actually alignment indicative and him explaining his vote more. This is further aggression from Gorf.

1. This cockiness reads townie. Completely unaware to how much he's failing to understand, still thinks he's the interrogator.



2. Unnecessary conflict. Poor play, but is it scummy



3. Eido you failed to respond to this



and this

LaserGuy is this a serious meta on somi or an rvs that went nowhere?



Eido AND this



4. townlean font for this. I felt the exact same



You've listed the active lobby, I expect reasoning

5. #86 + font for townreading eido

#88 fontisian Gorf's #70 read scummy to me


6. Poor reasoning


7. Big dislike on calling any vote on himself opportunistic at this point.

1.) Swiss - werewolf
2.) Laserguy null
3.) Bessie townlean
4.) Sabrar townlean
5.) Wam nullscum
6.) Maven89 nullscum
7.) Fontisian townlean
8.) Eido i want to say dumbtown but not sure
9.) Somitomi - null
10.) Gorf - nullscum

Numbers added by me, for convience.
1. This is a good read.
2. Hedgy. Whatever.
3. These questions are bad and Swiss repeatedly bringing them up when Eido says he is trying to get to everything feels performative.
4. (Look at me, I'm town.) Not a huge fan of him townleaning me off of me saying I'm town. Like, I am and it actually is a reason to townread me, but Swiss should know that.
5. Mmm, feels like him getting on the Eido is town, actually, wagon too late in the game. Following the thread consensus instead of trying to lead it anywhere.
6. The post from Eido literally explains his previous questions and yet felt like he had to reiterate them anyway. Very performative. There's also no analysis of what Eido is thinking here or an attempt to understand him, he just calls Eido's logic bad.
7. Where's the ****ing thought here? He's thinks Eido is town, and what? Why does the thought terminate there? Eido is calling Wam, a person who previously pinged Swiss as scummy, opportunistic and Swiss's response is just to tell Eido he doesn't get to judge people? What in the ****? How is town!Swiss not concerned about his scumread Wam using his push as a reason to vote a town?

Look at the readslist, he still thinks Wam is scummy. Why is this just a leftover read from early game instead of something Swiss was actually thinking about in the present?

I can't make a case yet as he hasn't done enough.

I'd be happy to lynch, but not gonna make a case yet as it'll be flimsy.

"I'd be happy to [yeet]," he says, as he in unwilling to vote Gorf for pressure. This excuse of the case being flimsy is ****, if he thinks Gorf is scum he should interact with him and flesh out the read, not sit back and do **** all.

Eido you haven't actually done anything.

Was this your catch up?

What actual opinions do you hold?

This is actually very good, and has a chance of helping Eido. It is everything Swiss's other questions lack.

Eido says he's looking at the below for scum

Swiss - just said im reasonable
Gorf - no push
Somitomi -no interaction
Wam - general chit chat about old games
Maven - quoted one post just now
Bessie - done nothing other than comment she 'hates' you

Do you think this is in depth scum hunting?

This guy isn't even scumhunting and he has the audacity to complain that Eido is looking at the people who put pressure on. This attempt at shade is ****.

I'm not 100% on it being a scumthing, it goes against the overall thread flow, thought Bessie and Wam did just call Eido wolfy. Moving on.

Which wagon?

What do you mean "which wagon," the only ****ing wagon.

I think Gorf is scum.

If you want to meta him just search and meta him.

Like you’re being incredibly obtuse, making bizarre statements then expect me to go and go legwork for you lol

...

He wants to know if Gorf is a wolf. You're scumreading gorf. ****ing help him, holy ****.

Note: This was just after Eido voted Maven, so if Maven is a wolf this could have been an attempt to discredit Eido overall.

Did Gorf ‘stick his neck out’ for me? I don’t see that. Please explain

Are you going to answer my questions to you from before?

Gorf question is fine, I don't think he did stick his neck out for Swiss, though I can see how Eido might have seen it that way.

"Are you going to answer my questions from before" is so useless. Link them or ask them again.

^ Why Somi so low?

This is a good question.

Town
Sabrar
Bessie
Font
Laser
Eido
Somi
Maven89
Wam
Gorf
Swiss

1. OK so my problem with Eido, other than the obvious, is that were he scum he would likely have tried to get the pressure off his back - as opposed to standing there like a deer in the headlights waiting for the train to hit him.



- sabar.

Very fair logic here but you're not involved in the game yet.

2. My problem with Gorf is he's much less confident this game. His reasoning is all correct, it just doesn't seem to come from the same place as before. But I'm chalking some of this up to him trying to be friendly this game and not how we used to play.

Laser early to townread Eido along with Font (earlier)



+ gord perfect reasoning

#161 Like Laser

3. fontisian you're not doing much eh? Good insight into other people's work, but where are you scum hunting?

#183 Like Wam



4. fontisian you ask why later, mostly covered this. I'm flip flopping

#186 real font effort good logic + font

5. #202 Like Maven89


Not colour coordinating reads below as less confident than I was before.
6.I'll lynch pretty much anyone so whatever wagons starts up first.

Town
Sabrar
Eido
Wam
Laser
Gorf
Maven89
Bessie
Font
Somi
Swiss

1. This is fine, just a little late to the party.
2. How is all of Gorg's reasoning correct but Laser and me defending Eido also good? Does not compute.
3. Send the kettle to the pot.
4. Flip flopping is towny, but I can't to that townreading if no reasoning is given at point. It just ends up feeling fake or like Swiss accidentally liked my post or something, idk.
5. I don't see anything to like in Maven's 202, it's just an acknowledgement that people think Eido is town now and Bessie's posts were nitpicky. It's null at best.
6. "I'd [yeet] anyone," Swiss says again, refusing to vote or even push on his actual scumreads in Somi, me and Bessie. This readlist feels very weird. Why is Sabrar at the top, why is Eido so high when Swiss still seems to have some doubts, why is Wam that high? Why are Somi, me and Bessie even scumreads? Swiss says he wants pressure to happen but he's not doing any of it.

I asked font about the meta read as my memory from things was that I called gorf scum early and I'm not getting those vibes this game. So im moving gorf to town.

Town
Swiss
Sabrar
Gorf

Scum wise I'm struggling to look past eido.

Somi needs more content.

Font, laser, maven are all still neutral.

Bessie I'm withholding judgement still.

This is a post Swiss likes later, not sure why it stands out to him.

Then Swiss disappeared for a while.

1. Older post but remember this.
Wrong? No.
Scummy post? Maybe

#208 Wan q's Somi
+Wam

2. Font V Laser to be remembered

Wam town



3. This is my problem with Eido. Probably just a PR but you never know.



4. Does scum Somi do this?
Not sure

5. Font town, disclaimer font has bigbrain

6. #277 Somi picks up on Bessie pedantry
+Somi

Problem with Bessie is she gives Gorf a +1 for saying "meta is ok" or some such. That's NAI. Why does it get a point?
I play like this, assigning +/- to each post I just don't post the numbers. I can't see how you arrive at some of these.

7. Someone is gonan need to explain why an inactive Wam is a useful lynch.

bessie I'm curious, how do you think a scum!Eido would do that, in a way that is different than what he is doing now? +0
He'd have been more concerned to self prez and get heat off his back, as opposed to 'looking correct'

1. Scummy how? Use words.
2. He was townreading Laser and scumreading me before this. Even if he ended up liking some of my content, why not talk to Laser about his read? Where's the followup?
3. Agrees that Eido is stiff. Says he might be Pr (to get him shot or something? I can't imagine why else town!Swiss would do this. Scum!Swiss does it because he people assume he wouldn't, I guess). I'm not sure why he was so certain on Eido being town earlier then, the stiffness was an ongoing problem.
4. This is fine, I think that post was kind of towny from Somi in retrospect.
5. Hate the "big brain" disclaimer. I've talked about this. I have no idea what post or posts he's talking about, and I looked.
6. Using Somi to push Bessie, maybe. Not sure why he likes this, Bessie being pedantic was common knowledge and didn't factor that much into her actual reads.
7. Wam isn't inactive, nor up to be yeeted. Idk what this is.

I'll have at least one solid read by toMorrow, I promise.

I like Font & Wam.
Bessie Null
Eido Nulltown
Gorf Null maybe nullscum
Maven Inactive
Sabrar Null
Laser nulltown
Somi nulltown

Probably forgot someone

I'm playing super bad this game idk why. Playing very safe.

Reads are kind of boring, haven't changed much beyond liking me and Somi now. The total lack of scumreads sticks out, Swiss not come off as the kind of person who focused on towncores over scumhunting. I don't feel like he's trying to do anything really except produce some content since he hadn't in a while.

Paranoid.

I meant I think you're both town

You're working hard to make me reconsider that though Wam

I dislike this exchange with Wam. Wam is primed to think other people see him as scum, it's not a sign he's scum. The "working hard to make me reconsider" feels over the top and performative, again.

Let's discuss my impression of Swiss. He seems:
1. Competent.
2. Jokey, likes to **** around to entertain himself and others.
3. Decent scum. He knows how to manipulate people and how to fake some town tells. Faking some logic and progressions would not be a problem for him.
4. Aggressive. If he gets a scumread and push it. He expects this same kind of aggression for Gorf.
5. He believes no one should be unyeetable Day 1, and if he's scumreading a stronger player he'll still push it.

Compare to what he's actually done over the course of the game. He seems:
1. Manipulative. He feels very aware of where the thread is moving and being on top of it.
2. Un-helpful. He nitpicks small things in Eido's posts, and asks questions that are busywork, very rarely insightful.
3. Stagnant. His Eido read changed and he claims his Gorf read is changing but that's about it. His Wam read is the same, after the beginning of the Day. His read on me is the same (big brain, but what if wolf?). His reasoning for the Gorf read seems to be the same (not aggressive enough). He likes Somi for disliking Bessie being pedantic, never mind that both and I pointed out the same thing first.
4. Consensusy. People start voting him? Better jump on lurker Maven. People pushing Eido? He'll contribute. People townreading Eido? Sure, he'll contribute to that too. But he doesn't start his own pushes or actually go for anything. He's just kind of here.
5. Non-paranoid. He says he is in some areas, sure, but he doesn't push it or talk it out, and the concern doesn't seem to last.
6. Wolf-wordy. This is a weird one. His language in a few areas feels off to me. Feels like wolves I've seen before. The initial vote on Eido, where he's talking to Laser about it, is one of those. Feels like he's trying to justify his position more than actually trying to get a wolf. The recent conversation with Wam was another. Feels like a spot where he thinks people would think town!him would be concerned, so he pretended to be concerned. This is a hard point to explain exactly.
7. Self-preservationy. He showed up just after I called him and wolf and voted my other wolfread. Could be he was lurking in the thread and didn't feel like he had to intervene because town!somi was getting yeeted. Vote on Maven feels vaguely bus-like.

 

[fontisian]

Don't mind me, I'm just refreshing 17 times.

 

[Swiss]

I have a bad feeling Maven is going to PR claim

 

[Wam]

Don't mind me, I'm just refreshing 17 times.

I dont have time to check the case tbh before end.of day. I'm going to stick to my swiss town read and re assess day 2. I'm leaving my vote where it is.

 

[fontisian]

I dont have time to check the case tbh before end.of day. I'm going to stick to my swiss town read and re assess day 2. I'm leaving my vote where it is.

Understandable. I may need to switch to Maven or Swiss later to make sure we get a yeet.

 

[Swiss]

You're not yeeting me off one shoddy case and zero discussion