Decisive Games NewD3 Mafia (GAME OVER!)

[Eido]

In my daily readthrough, I haven’t found much in Wam’s content that I have noted. Why should I be forcing reads? -1

So, as Fonti & myself have moved down in points, you have looked hyper focused on our posts, presumably to engage with and solve us.

But this isn’t true of Wam, who started low in your ranking (lower than Fonti).

I’m interested in why you're not hurried to engage with and solve him too. What are you looking for in Wam's content?

 

[Sabrar]

I’m interested in why you're not hurried to engage with and solve him too. What are you looking for in Wam's content?

You still don't get how bessie writes her daily posts, do you?

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

That’s part of why I asked if bessies math equations directly reflected her personal analysis thus far: I don’t think you should take those as reads per se, and more things that she’s noting and reacting to, culminating in an overarching impression that she’ll get to when she gets to it. With that in mind I am more okay right now with bessies output than I thought I was at first.

 

[Eido]

I want to look in to Bessie's read/impression on Wam, as I find it unclear.

 

[Eido]

What you can do about it is you can answer them. And I haven’t asked you very many. Can you answer just the questions in #102 and I withdraw any questions in #195. And please answer the questions in this post. +0

Ok, I've taken a look. I asked those 3 players because we were all online around this time. We were the opening group of players posting.

As for why I wanted more players to post first before judging Wam at that time, it’s because only 4 players had posted. It was page 1. See #248 & #249 too, as a similar question was asked.

You also reached out about #201. It was the temptation of Scum to join from the moment Gorf voted and started pushing, which included Swiss & Wam. And I was also thinking about the potential for Gorf to push as Scum, too.

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

OFFICIAL VOTE COUNT v1.5

Eido (2): Swiss, Wam
Fontisian (1): Laserguy

Not Voting (7): Eido, Gorf, Bessie, Sabrar, Maven, Fontisian, Somitomi

With 10 alive it takes 6 votes to eliminate!

 

[Wam]

We're not yeeting Eido.

Sabrar, the reason he didn't answer or correct every little thing is that there were too many things from too many people.

Then who?

Remeber we have to hammer.

I was considering the possibility you were trying to deliberately obfuscate your meta.

I had a similar thought.

Also the team is Somi/Bessie and Somi made a shroop, you heard it here first, folks.

Was this genuine? Seems to have been overlooked. Also bessie seemed to not react as much as I would expect from town bessie...

But for now game seems to be slowing down so let's

Vote somitomi

When in doubt lynch a lurker.

 

[fontisian]

Wam I'm looking at somi as the likely yeet, yeah. Maybe Maven, though he's had a bit of towny tone.

Because, uh, when in doubt, yeet a lurker.

The shroop thing is half a joke, half real. I'm leaning more towards Bessie being town now, though, so let's call it three quarters a joke.

The reason shroops catch partners is that scum are more likely to edit and overthink paragraphs about their scummates. And when they make a post and half a sentence in the middle is missing, that means they were writing the post out of order (unusual, outside of long quote walls) and struggling with that section. Tl:dr, i's an odds thing, not a guaranteed catch.

bessie , the reason I wasn't on board with Laser's engagement readon you wasn't that I doubted the validity of reading you off your interest in the game, but rather that you hadn't seemed that interested to me. Now you definitely do.

LaserGuy , fair, I forgot your Xivii tunnel in Apex. I was a bit concerned abouthiw you easily townread me there and aren't able to get there here, but looking over it, I was being more agressive there. I'm also conflating games I where I was reading along with games I was in, I think. Anyway, we're cool.

 

[bessie]

I was considering the possibility you were trying to deliberately obfuscate your meta.

If I alter my style it’s more likely role playing than intent to deceive; even when I’m playing as someone else I have a feeling I’m still pretty distinctly bessie. But say I was deliberately trying to change up my meta. Why would that be suspicious? +0

I feel like this is needlessly pedantic and I don't know why you think your interpretation of the wording is exactly what Eido meant.

You’re talking about someone that analyzes confirmation posts (and, I might add, has caught scum doing so). I’m not good at behavior type of analysis. I pick nits. Interesting that you selected this, something that you already know, out of the last few pages of content to focus on. -1

And I don’t know that my interpretation is correct. But I noted it and left it open for Eido to reply. Interestingly, he didn’t reply; fonti jumped it to explain it for him. +0

I was actually surprised by how strong it appears to be. I know bessie's the kind to tunnel, but in my recollection she's usually ... friendlier towards new players, at least on D1 so Eido being her only strong read either way is odd.

Where am I not being friendly? And I haven’t given my analysis yet you are extrapolating. -1

So, as Fonti & myself have moved down in points, you have looked hyper focused on our posts, presumably to engage with and solve us.

But this isn’t true of Wam, who started low in your ranking (lower than Fonti).

I’m interested in why you're not hurried to engage with and solve him too. What are you looking for in Wam's content?

Hahahaha no. You haven’t even tried to understand my posting style, which I have explained in detail over multiple posts. At the time of my first post #102, Wam had posted more content than fonti, and therefore had more content for me to react to. I’m letting the content lead me where it does. I’m not searching out reasons to scum read specific people.

I’m not really good at behavior-type reads, but I feel your focus in this particular comment is characteristic of your approach to this game, and I feel has been from a scum mind set. -1

And your intention to try to steer me away from looking at you and fonti is noted. -1

You still don't get how bessie writes her daily posts, do you?

I think that by now the misinterpretation is deliberate. The whole thing with the points is a just a tool and the reactions to what is essentially a gambit are interesting.+1

That’s part of why I asked if bessies math equations directly reflected her personal analysis thus far: I don’t think you should take those as reads per se, and more things that she’s noting and reacting to, culminating in an overarching impression that she’ll get to when she gets to it. With that in mind I am more okay right now with bessies output than I thought I was at first.

I like this comment because I feel Gorf is trying to understand my style. This isn’t necessarily alignment indicative, but I feel that it is an overall positive for the game. +1

I want to look in to Bessie's read/impression on Wam, as I find it unclear.

I have an idea. Why don’t you come up with your own Wam read, instead of waiting for me to feed you one. -1

Ok, I've taken a look. I asked those 3 players because we were all online around this time. We were the opening group of players posting.

As for why I wanted more players to post first before judging Wam at that time, it’s because only 4 players had posted. It was page 1. See #248 & #249 too, as a similar question was asked.

You also reached out about #201. It was the temptation of Scum to join from the moment Gorf voted and started pushing, which included Swiss & Wam. And I was also thinking about the potential for Gorf to push as Scum, too.

This answer is all I was looking for, I had no idea who was on line when the question was asked and why those players were selected. Why did it take you so long to answer this? +0

Ok but it doesn’t explain why you needed more content to judge Wam on his opening.+0

I think it’s already been explained that there was pretty much a zero chance scum would quick hammer in this setup so I’ll let that part drop, but noting your response for now. +0

I had a similar thought.


Was this genuine? Seems to have been overlooked. Also bessie seemed to not react as much as I would expect from town bessie...

Ok. Please respond to the same question I asked LaserGuy in this post. +0

And what would you expect, and how would it differ from my reaction in #231 ? +0


I’m just noting fonti’s #288 for now, because I want to think about it, especially her response to LaserGuy, which still pings me. But want to assign a point because I feel her responses make this a good content post, and show she is thinking about the game; however I also feel that this in itself is NAI for fonti. +1


Eido -18-3 => -21
Fontisian -8+1 => -7
Gorf +5+1 => +6
LaserGuy +1+0 => +1
Maven89 +1 => +1
Sabrar +4+1 => +5
Somitomi 0 -2 => -2
Swiss +2 => +2
Wam -2 => -2

 

[Sabrar]

But for now game seems to be slowing down so let's

Vote somitomi

When in doubt lynch a lurker.

How did you choose between somi and Maven?

 

[Wam]

Maven had RL reasons

bessie I think your more likely to want to change your scum meta rather than your town one. However a its not a string signal because I can see you trying the change as town 1st.

 

[Sabrar]

Maven had RL reasons

True, but he promised answers 'tomorrow' and it's been 2.5 days since.

 

[fontisian]

Here, everyone fill out this form:

I will not yeet:
I would not like to yeet:
I would consider yeeting:
I would like to yeet:

This is for the Day 1 yeet, just slap some names down. You're not beholden to it until the end of time.

 

[fontisian]

Example:
I will not yeet: fonti, Gorf, Eido
I would not like to yeet: Swiss, Wam, Bessie
I am ambivalent about yeeting: Laser, Sabrar
I would consider yeeting: Maven, Somi
I would like to yeet:

I needed another category, so I added that in. Use it if you want.

 

[Sabrar]

I will not yeet:
I would not like to yeet: bessie, fonti, Gorf, Swiss
I would consider yeeting: LaserGuy, wam
I would like to yeet: Eido, Maven, somi

 

[bessie]

bessie I think your more likely to want to change your scum meta rather than your town one. However a its not a string signal because I can see you trying the change as town 1st.

But I'm not trying to change my meta at all. If I didn't want to be me I would create an alt, which I have no interest in doing. I'm role playing to amuse myself. Like in Shakespeare III Mafia which I linked in my post where fonti requested some old games. Or even better, compare to Shakespeare II where I was Fluellen and I sprinkled my content with Welsh phrases. Or the game where I was Madge and was so annoying I was killed N1. Or the most recent game where I was playing a character, it was very subtle and no one noticed but it served its purpose I amused myself.

Here, everyone fill out this form:

I will not yeet:
I would not like to yeet:
I would consider yeeting:
I would like to yeet:

This is for the Day 1 yeet, just slap some names down. You're not beholden to it until the end of time.

I don't object to doing this, but I kinda would like the lurkers to post some opinions first instead of just handing them a pre assembled reads list.

 

[somitomi]

Well, I had less time for this game over the weekend than anticipated, so here are some weakly ordered impressions:
YEAH
Maven - didn't post much, but us lurkers have to stick together.
Sabrar - has been asking pertinent questions, although he seems to have taken the backseat this game a little.
Fontisian - like how they've been trying to help sort the Gorf v. Eido debate out. The absolute confidence they show rubs me up the wrong way, but I couldn't read Xivii at all because of this.
LaserGuy - seems to engage with everyone and think about the responses.
Bessie - feels like her town self, although I think some of her points on Eido are nitpicky even for a bessie tunnel.
Eido - I get like 90% newbie town vibes here, they've been fairly open about their opinions and don't seem to be afraid from drawing attention. Dismissing the possibility of a quickhammer is weird coming from a fairly new player though.
Wam - feels kinda scummy like they always do, so I'm bumping to neutral. I'm not a fan of the "scum are probably lurking" take, but that's kinda personal.
Gorf - has been focusing on Eido and saying very little about anyone else, which just feels off to me. On the other hand, that'd be kind of risky for mafia to do
Swiss - spent most of his time on Eido as well, and the non-committal reads list at the end of #207 pings me a little.
BOO
Ninja'd by the entire observable universe

 

[fontisian]

But I'm not trying to change my meta at all. If I didn't want to be me I would create an alt, which I have no interest in doing. I'm role playing to amuse myself. Like in Shakespeare III Mafia which I linked in my post where fonti requested some old games. Or even better, compare to Shakespeare II where I was Fluellen and I sprinkled my content with Welsh phrases. Or the game where I was Madge and was so annoying I was killed N1. Or the most recent game where I was playing a character, it was very subtle and no one noticed but it served its purpose I amused myself.


I don't object to doing this, but I kinda would like the lurkers to post some opinions first instead of just handing them a pre assembled reads list.

Fair point, yeah. I, uh, have no hopes of them doing stuff anyway and waiting is not my strong suit.

 

[bessie]

Ok, somitomi posted his reads and Maven has a RL issue so if he doesn't post by tonight we won't wait for him.

Wait, is deadline tomorrow night??

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

I think we have 30 hours

skimmed, will respond to fonti’s list/read more thoroughly later tonight

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

I will not yeet: Gorf sabrar
I would not like to yeet: Swiss fonti laser Bessie
I would consider yeeting: wam eido maven
I would like to yeet: somi

vote: somitomi

 

[bessie]

I don't know why but my mind was not interpreting deadline correctly, I was thinking 4/20 and equating that with a Tuesday night deadline.

Reads, not very refined. I left them a bit rough to get them up and still have a couple hours before I sign off for the night in case anyone wants to discuss.

bessie
Interesting choice of gambit this game, she decided to adopt one of Zen’s alt metas, and is not doing a very good job of it. The only part of Hari’s meta she adopted is the points system because she is unable to do the kind of detailed behavior analysis that Hari did, and point system isn’t really working out either, because she hasn’t adopted it thoroughly and (1) is not assigning as many positive points, and (2) is using whole numbers, and these two items are skewing the numbers. But the gambit has produced results and provoked some interesting reactions from players (compare to bessie’s mini gambit last game which went pretty much unnoticed).

Eido
When I read Eido’s content, it makes me think of an article fonti linked to a while ago on power wolfing. It’s like in all his content, trying to control the conversation by asking a lot of questions and pushing others for their opinions which would be good but he’s not offering anything of his own. If he was pushing someone, and then replied with “the reason I asked is because I think…” but he doesn’t. It’s questions but not for purpose of solving the game; it’s noise to appear busy. I’m not going to pull out a bunch of quotes, just read through P1 and P2, Eido asks questions but there is no meaningful follow up. Eido needed multiple prods to answer my questions regarding P1 content, which he finally did in #285 . Eido’s P2 is dragged down by space filling requests for old games to use for meta reads.

I really dislike #89 which I’ve previously discussed. It’s like, I feel everything is wrong with it. Eido calls out Gorf for a “bad” scum tell. For something that Eido has never seen happen, but in the same sentence says it’s something that he is sure has happened somewhere. Then reminds us that he’s a newbie and requests validation from @ everyone. Then the request for a past game to compare (or validate his opinion).
Note: in reread, I think I missed something about this, refer to Sabrar’s #187. Why didn’t Eido correct this? See also where Sabrar comes back to this in #254.

Re #118 Eido’s scum pool is entirely built on OMGUS (there’s also another request for an old game). Eido did actually give some reasons in #124 but it has a very much cart before the horse feel.

Have I said before I dislike Eido trying to validate reads by comparing to similar behavior/alignment from old games? (yes see #267) This is such a bad approach for him, but is it scummy? I am leaning yes, because many other players told him this was a bad approach, but he won’t drop it, which makes me thinks he is preemptively planning for a way to explain wrong reads (by using "the method was flawed").

Eido is interested in talking to me about Wam, starting in #244 . Why? I might want to come back to this in the future, depends on how the flips play out.

Even considering everything else, I feel #281 by itself is enough for me to vote for Eido, see my post #289 for explanation why. See also Eido’s #284, which is a response to Sabrar.

fontisian
fonti opened with LAMIST #84 which I hate (yes I know fonti and I disagree on this but I’m calling it how I read it). Right away fonti tries steering suspicion away from Eido refer to #94 . [Note: Rereading I like #96, It hadn’t stood out to me in my initial read through.]

Primary thought in my mind, is fonti scum with Eido, or helping out a newbie? fonti sees a newbie in trouble and helps him out, my gut feels that this is scum helping scum, but my brain thinks this is NAI because fonti is a generous player, and I feel it is important to her that everyone has a good game.

The other thought in my mind, refer to #237, #238 for fonti's responses to Laser, upon reflection these posts are not sitting right with me. It’s the way she approaches disagreement with LaserGuy, the two part response comes down to (1) we’re not in sync (2) which we usually are when we both are town; this leads to (3) implying is left open for the reader to decide (but it's not really). See also #288.

Gorf
My very early impression was that Gorf comes out ahead in the Eido exchange. I like that Gorf answers questions, gives reads with reasons. I think he’s town and I’m writing this one up last, I wanted to say more but I just don’t have time to spend analyzing a town read.

LaserGuy
I’m wary of LaserGuy's Eido read, I think some things that LaserGuy is labeling newbie town are just newbie. I’m still unsettled about LaserGuy questioning me on the points thing, though I suspect he had a reason he discarded and/or decided not to share. Or maybe he doesn’t. If I have extra time to put in to this tonight, I think I would like to do a more thorough LaserGuy reread. If not it can wait until D2.

Maven89
I’m going to stick my neck out here and give Maven’s lurking a D1 pass for RL issues. I like what I have seen of Maven, his opening posts on D2 are sparse but he gives opinions with reasons. I would like to see his follow up to #202 and his answer ot the questions asked by Sabrar in #204 . If Maven posts tonight I will revise this read tomorrow.

Sabrar
This game has been low content for Sabrar, but what he has given us is good quality. I made a comment in an earlier post about players that do their reads by magic; Sabrar’s not on that list because he’s not magic, he is pure brain power. If Sabrar’s town, he will lead us to scum, if he’s not it should be evident as the game progresses. But I think he’s town; I have my reasons which I’m not explaining today. And I’m not wasting my time analyzing a town read.

somitomi
I get the feeling somitomi is lurking because he is busy, not necessarily because he is mafia. What little content he has posted gives me a townie vibe, but the content in itself doesn’t. Pre post edit, he posted his reads list as I was working on this. I feel that scum!somi would have found a reason to scum read Maven; also he put two generally town-read players at the top of his scum list when he could have gone for Wam. Moving somi to my don’t want to yeet today list.

Swiss
I feel most of his early content is NAI. He makes several soft town claims, which I don't like. Swiss keeps a running town-scum list, which I do like. I am a very strong supporter of town-scum lists with no groupings because they force you to make a read on everyone, even if it is only in relation to everyone else, and Swiss gives us one every day.

Swiss, I have an unanswered question to you in #231 . The answer may or may not influence my read, so please answer before end of day.

Wam
Wam’s early content is not bad, he gives opinions with reasons, and an early town-scum list. He has manages to get some scum leans, but to be blunt, D1 Wam is low hanging fruit in every game, especially if he’s town (sorry Wam). Scum Wam is a much better player. I’m not interested in pursuing a Wam elimination today.


Isolated content / overall vibe
Eido -21 / -3
Fontisian -7 / -2
Gorf +6 / +1
LaserGuy +1 / +1
Maven89 +1 / -1
Sabrar +5 / +2
Somitomi -2 / +0
Swiss +2 / +0
Wam -2 / +0


Woof
bessie
Sabrar
Gorf
LaserGuy
Swiss
Wam
somitomi
Maven89
fontisian
Eido
Grr


fonti's list, subject to revision with new content, or revision because I rethought something:
I will not yeet: Sabrar, Gorf
I would not like to yeet: somitomi, Wam, LaserGuy, Swiss
I am ambivalent about yeeting: Maven
I would consider yeeting: fonti
I would like to yeet: Eido


Vote: Eido

 

[fontisian]

Thank you for that, Bessie. I disagree on a number of things, but the effort you put is really appreciated.

A quick point regarding my post #94: It was actually an attempt to help Gorf, more than Eido, in an attempt to help him express his read more clearly and focus on the parts that were actually pinging him. It was also the basis for my initial townread on Gorf. There was some intention to help Eido, but only in a reducing confusing kind of way.

somitomi , question for you. You said Wam was bumped to neutral, so the two below him (Gorf and Swiss) must be your scumreads. You're scumreading both of them for pushing on Eido. But Eido himself is only just above Wam in your readslist, so he's either a neutral read or a very weak townread. Can you explain why both of your scumreads are for them scumreading someone you're not even really townreading?

 

[fontisian]

Sabrar I've seen your posts, I've run out of time but I will get back to you. Please re-evaluate your scum tell (the @'ing everyone thing). It's going to be wrong.

Not sure if this will mean anything to bessie , but it might be helpful to someone.

This post feels very town to me. Eido has this quiet competence and this knowledge that the pressure on him is wrong and that some town must be involved. He's not raging, he's not freaking out, he's not trying to appease people, he's just asking a townread to reconsider how they may be wrong.

 

[Sabrar]

I would consider yeeting: Maven, Somi

Is Maven here solely due to the lurking or do you have another reason? Why is somi not lower if you already think he's scum?

 

[fontisian]

Is Maven here solely due to the lurking or do you have another reason? Why is somi not lower if you already think he's scum?

I didn't already think somi was scum. They're both down there because they aren't townreads.

 

[Sabrar]

So if I understand correctly you had a reason to sus somi ('shroop') but since you now consider bessie to be more likely town you've dropped this point and have no specific item against anyone to call them scum.
Do you think this necessitates at least one veteran player in the scum-team?

 

[fontisian]

So if I understand correctly you had a reason to sus somi ('shroop') but since you now consider bessie to be more likely town you've dropped this point and have no specific item against anyone to call them scum.
Do you think this necessitates at least one veteran player in the scum-team?

Nah.

 

[fontisian]

Sorry, that's a yes to the first part, a no to the second. It means I've just been more focused on townreads than scumreads.

 

[Maven89]

So I managed to move back, only to find out I have no internet. If I can’t get it fixed by tomorrow I’ll replace out tomorrow night, I hate mafia through only phone posting and won’t subject you to dealing with a player who can’t make actual posts with quotes and details. Sorry about that

 

[Sabrar]

We have deadline in 24 hours, don't you think that fixing it by tomorrow would be too late? Mind you I have no good solution here to the problem.

 

[bessie]

Not sure if this will mean anything to bessie , but it might be helpful to someone.

This post feels very town to me. Eido has this quiet competence and this knowledge that the pressure on him is wrong and that some town must be involved. He's not raging, he's not freaking out, he's not trying to appease people, he's just asking a townread to reconsider how they may be wrong.

I have already thought about this.
I had thought about a similar situation in the previous game I played too (Wam's Chaos). We had a new player, first game of forum mafia. That player, Tattertot, had a very calm reaction to an RVS vote, and there was discussion as to whether the reaction was natural for newbie town or newbie scum, and if it could be the result of coaching. And my thinking of it reminded me a lot of newbie LaserGuy's reaction in one of his first games and how I wrongly town read him for it. You can read my thoughts in the LaserGuy section of this post.

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

OFFICIAL VOTE COUNT v1.6

Eido (2): Swiss, Bessie
Somitomi (2): Wam, Gorf
Fontisian (1): Laserguy

Not Voting (5): Eido, Sabrar, Maven, Fontisian, Somitomi

With 10 alive it takes 6 votes to eliminate!

AS OF THIS POST DEADLINE WILL BE IN APPROXIMATELY 24 HOURS LESS 5 MINUTES!

 

[Wam]

But I'm not trying to change my meta at all. If I didn't want to be me I would create an alt, which I have no interest in doing. I'm role playing to amuse myself. Like in Shakespeare III Mafia which I linked in my post where fonti requested some old games. Or even better, compare to Shakespeare II where I was Fluellen and I sprinkled my content with Welsh phrases. Or the game where I was Madge and was so annoying I was killed N1. Or the most recent game where I was playing a character, it was very subtle and no one noticed but it served its purpose I amused myself.

I didnt say you were 100% I was speculating as your last scum game you got caught on meta.

However this reaction is far more likely to come from town bessie.

Fonts questions

I will not yeet: Sabrar, swiss
I would not like to yeet: laser, bessie,
I am ambivalent about yeeting: maven gorf
I would consider yeeting: font
I would like to yeet: somitomi, eido

This below from font is a good push on somi.

Thank you for that, Bessie. I disagree on a number of things, but the effort you put is really appreciated.

A quick point regarding my post #94: It was actually an attempt to help Gorf, more than Eido, in an attempt to help him express his read more clearly and focus on the parts that were actually pinging him. It was also the basis for my initial townread on Gorf. There was some intention to help Eido, but only in a reducing confusing kind of way.

somitomi , question for you. You said Wam was bumped to neutral, so the two below him (Gorf and Swiss) must be your scumreads. You're scumreading both of them for pushing on Eido. But Eido himself is only just above Wam in your readslist, so he's either a neutral read or a very weak townread. Can you explain why both of your scumreads are for them scumreading someone you're not even really townreading?

Sorry, that's a yes to the first part, a no to the second. It means I've just been more focused on townreads than scumreads.

I'm on my phone so.cant easily check but didnt scum font do something similar?

 

[Swiss]

Re-reading t minus 2 hours until hot takes

 

[LaserGuy]

Reads:

bessie:

Her interest and engagement levels in the game strike me as Town bessie. I've talked about this already, but bessie tends to struggle a lot to come up with good content as mafia and often comes across as uninterested in the game. I don't get that impression from her here.

I spent some time thinking about whether scum!bessie would attempt to use something like the point system to distract from her scum play, and, on balance, I think this is unlikely. Likely Town.


Eido:

He pinged Town early for me and not a lot has changed here. I understand there is a level of weirdness in his play, but I think his process is very genuine.


Swiss:

I liked his opening and early Eido push, and there were several posts during this sequence that pinged Town. His progression on Eido from scum to newbie Town feels quite natural. I find it townie that he admits his read confidence has gone down as the day has gone on (#109-#207), though this is somewhat tempered by the fact that I don't really feel like his recent posting has shown an uptick in engagement or scumhunting to try to resolve this. Putting him at Town lean.


wam:

I have a recollection that scum!Wam is often read as Town and Town!Wam is often read as scum, so the fact that, on balance, I like Wam's content this game, is putting me on edge a little bit. I have some particular concerns related to Wam/fonti that I will discuss in my fonti read (pedit: having done my fonti review, I'm less sure of this connection anyway). I do think that the persistent tunnel on Eido is more consistent with Town!wam, though. Independently of fonti I'm going to put him at Town lean.


somitomi:

A lot of the same problems as Maven, just lacking in content overall, though this is NAI for somitomi just as it is for Maven. I get vaguely townie vibes based on tone and his reads in #297, though thin, are very non-consensusy and do show some original thought, which is promising. I'd go with nullTown here.


Gorf:

On review, I think my opinion of Gorf has improved somewhat. I still don't like the push on Eido, which sort of tempers my enthusiasm for the slot overall since a lot of his content is focused there, but he seems to be processing in a natural way and I feel his reconsideration of Eido in #256 looks good. I'll put him at nullTown.


Maven89:

Hard null. I feel like almost every game I've played with Maven has kind of gone this way. I think he is a poor yeet at present given that if he flips Town it is doesn't give us much in the way of info beyond sorting the slot, but I can understand the reasoning behind it.


Sabrar:

The last few Town games I've played with Sabrar he's come out tonally very townie and has been fairly active. I feel like in this game he is much more conflict adverse and low key and that's raising some red flags. I have liked a lot of the questions he's been asking, but I don't feel that is strongly alignment indicative for Sabrar. Leaning scum.


fonti:

In the previous games where I have played with Town!fonti, her analysis has been very, specific, detailed, and disturbingly accurate. I want to highlight a couple of posts from early in Midnight OPS showing her process: here, here, here, and especially here. She is very candid with her assessments of players, and is rapidly moving toward forming a very solid Towncore that is pretty much unshakeable from her POV for the entire game. We see a similar progression in Apex mafia, both with her Townreads, (here, here, here, here) and here scumreads (here, here, here). This isn't intended to be exhaustive, merely representative. The important point is that she is actively moving towards forming a towncore and that her townreads tend to be strong and difficult to shake.

This is in large part what I've seen lacking in her play so far this game. She isn't trying to move Town together toward a solve, and her reads reflect that. In fact, her #238 seems to suggest she's more interested in controlling the narrative of the game than she is in solving. Her read on me in #210 seems clearly intended to be a scum read, but she hedges hard at the end with her tl;dr. There's a similar hedginess in her read on Eido (#86, which she starts out strong and then quickly backpedals. Was there a substantial change in Eido's process that led her to this conclusion? Not really. Eido's play has been pretty consistent, for better or worse. There is a similar example with bessie and somitomi and then backs down quickly.

Her current solve is that we yeet one of the two lowest hanging fruit players and hope for the best and she... doesn't seem bothered by that. Contrast her reads here to Midnight, where she had a very, very clear, correct direction and was willing to go to the mat for it. Ditto in Apex. Both games were Town!fonti. Contrast the very similar ambivalence of scum!fonti in TIL that we observe in this game. fonti is an extremely strong Town player with excellent instincts and aggressively collects her townreads and pushes her scumreads. The milquetoast version of fonti that were are seeing this game is probably scum.

About wam:

Spoiler

This read feels like a buddy read. Note that fonti never follows up with wam about anything, but throws him into the towncore as well. wam, on the other hand, seems very reluctant to talk about fonti at all. Admittedly, I thought there were more weird interactions between them than I noted on reread, so this isn't as solid of a connection as I had thought earlier.

Town
LaserGuy
bessie
Eido
Swiss
wam
somitomi
Gorf
Maven === NULL
Sabrar
fonti
Scum


Or, in fonti's parlance:

I will not yeet: LaserGuy, bessie, Eido Swiss
I would not like to yeet: wam, somitomi, Gorf
I would consider yeeting: Sabrar, Maven
I would like to yeet: fonti

 

[Swiss]

For reference, I went through the beginning of Things to refamiliarize myself with Gorf's scum game, then went through the first few pages of Mafia and Werewolves to note how his town game differed, amd finished up with a reread of this thread.

The biggest difference is stiffness, both in demeanor and read fluidity, though some of that in Things can likely be attributed to his early interactions with a partner. Regardless, there's a looseness in his posting here that comes through in his town game and was absent in his scum game.

Older post but remember this.
Wrong? No.
Scummy post? Maybe

#208 Wan q's Somi
+Wam

Font V Laser to be remembered

Wam town

I will say Eido feels weirdly stiff.

This is my problem with Eido. Probably just a PR but you never know.

It's not townie, I very specifically said I'd consider it null. What's so scummy about simply saying "I'm town"?


Not quite in the game, sadly, I have to read again over the weekend even though I swore I'm gonna stop re-reading the entire thread. At the moment I feel like Eido is the standard new player with a good chance of flipping town and not providing much information, but I've just been burned by this.

Does scum Somi do this?
Not sure

Font town, disclaimer font has bigbrain

#277 Somi picks up on Bessie pedantry
+Somi

Problem with Bessie is she gives Gorf a +1 for saying "meta is ok" or some such. That's NAI. Why does it get a point?
I play like this, assigning +/- to each post I just don't post the numbers. I can't see how you arrive at some of these.

Someone is gonan need to explain why an inactive Wam is a useful lynch.

bessie I'm curious, how do you think a scum!Eido would do that, in a way that is different than what he is doing now? +0
He'd have been more concerned to self prez and get heat off his back, as opposed to 'looking correct'

 

[Swiss]

I'll have at least one solid read by toMorrow, I promise.

I like Font & Wam.
Bessie Null
Eido Nulltown
Gorf Null maybe nullscum
Maven Inactive
Sabrar Null
Laser nulltown
Somi nulltown

Probably forgot someone

I'm playing super bad this game idk why. Playing very safe.

 

[Wam]

In what way am I inactive?

By you like font and wam I assume you mean you think were scum together?

 

[Swiss]

Paranoid.

I meant I think you're both town