Midwest [Dec 27, 2014] Overswarm's private Smash 4 House Tournament 2! (Taylor Mill, KY)

[Absol]

0344-9693-6816, add me ASAP Overswarm

 

[Katakiri]

I hope you're ready for a long, multi-subject post.

@ Overswarm I have a concern about the lumping of Omega Stage variants together with FD as one stage. I think it might be abuseable to some degree and all Omega Stages are not identical to FD in the first place.

So say we stage strike down to Final Destination and my opponent selects standard FD on their 3DS. Can I then select Balloon Fight FD on my own 3DS to give myself a have a 50% chance to go to have a Yoshi's Island-style wall down to the bottom blast-zone to jump off of to recover? I essentially have a 50% chance to have a slightly advantageous stage that my opponent my not have even considered when striking. We choose stages where the on-stage gameplay is the same but the off-stage gameplay can vary greatly. This is only an issue when stage striking since, when counter-picking, the loser can just tell the winner exactly what Omega Stage to choose.

Because of that, I think it might be worth having 2 Final Destination on the stage list to strike or choose from:

• FD Platform (the standard floating platform layout)
  
• FD Walls (walls reaching down from the ledges to the blast zone)

All FD stages fall under one of those two categories with the only outlier being Arena Ferox which is a hybrid between the two (think Pokemon Stadium with a column running down the middle into the bottom blast-zone) but it would more fall under platform than plateau unless we consider preventing scrooging a viable reason to say otherwise.

I guess it's a minor thing in general but there are a fair number of strategies that can be applied or prevented depending on which Omega Stage variant is chosen; for instance, on FD Platform, characters with recoveries like Fox's can be stage-spiked with a simple B-Air from any character but FD Walls prevents that. On FD Platform, Kirby and Dedede can inhale, jump off, spit you under the stage, and just B-Air to stage spike you but that doesn't work on FD Walls. Characters like Little Mac, Sheik, and Mega Man can recover safer than they can on FD Platform by wall-jumping on FD Walls. DK has a suicide F-Throw > D-Air combo that works as early as 50% on FD Platform, Dedede can throw Gordos onto the ledge (they stick to walls now) of FD Walls and just completely deny recovering low, and I'm sure there are plenty of other stage-dependent techniques that we haven't yet discovered.

The side-effect with my solution is that it guarantees an Omega Stage to be playable/Counter-pick-able at least once without multiple stage bans. I'm personally okay with that, not only in the same way Melee and PM had BF and Yoshi Story but I would imagine that many Smashers would be practicing in For Glory mode since the game's net-code is solid this time so having a familiar Omega stage available to CP to would make those players more comfortable and support For Glory mode and its Omega stages without bending our entire stage list to it.


But anyway, I'd be down to play some Smash and chat on Skype any afternoon that's not a Monday or Wednesday. I'll be online all day this Saturday too.
NA 3DS FC: 2492 5180 2983
Japanese 3DS FC: 4227 3283 3211
Skype: KatakiriG
My Japanese game will likely have more custom moves and equipment if you'd like to test those.


Also I still need a doubles partner. I'd really prefer someone that has prior doubles experience.

One more thing, I'll be bringing both of my 3DSes to the tourney in case someone breaks their circle-pad or something over the course of the week and wouldn't be able to come otherwise (assuming JPN & NA Smash can communicate locally).

 

[Overswarm]

I hope you're ready for a long, multi-subject post.

@ Overswarm I have a concern about the lumping of Omega Stage variants together with FD as one stage. I think it might be abuseable to some degree and all Omega Stages are not identical to FD in the first place.

So say we stage strike down to Final Destination and my opponent selects standard FD on their 3DS. Can I then select Balloon Fight FD on my own 3DS to give myself a have a 50% chance to go to have a Yoshi's Island-style wall down to the bottom blast-zone to jump off of to recover? I essentially have a 50% chance to have a slightly advantageous stage that my opponent my not have even considered when striking. We choose stages where the on-stage gameplay is the same but the off-stage gameplay can vary greatly. This is only an issue when stage striking since, when counter-picking, the loser can just tell the winner exactly what Omega Stage to choose.

Because of that, I think it might be worth having 2 Final Destination on the stage list to strike or choose from:

• FD Platform (the standard floating platform layout)
  
• FD Walls (walls reaching down from the ledges to the blast zone)

The stage striking to FD is only vanilla FD (at the moment). ALL FDs are considered the same stage, so if you stage strike to FD, then lose, you can go to balloon fight FD for the walls. If you go to vanilla FD, then win, you cannot go to balloon fight FD as you have "already won on FD" and DSR prevents it.

If you stage strike to FD, you'd be stage striking to that FD. Both opponents would be required to pick the same stage (you wouldn't accidentally get the "wrong" one)

All FD stages fall under one of those two categories with the only outlier being Arena Ferox which is a hybrid between the two (think Pokemon Stadium with a column running down the middle into the bottom blast-zone) but it would more fall under platform than plateau unless we consider preventing scrooging a viable reason to say otherwise.

Close!

Default FD' Versions (2):
Final Destination
Battlefield

'Wall' Versions (20):
New Super Mario Bros
Paper Mario
Mushroomy Kingdom
Gerudo Valley
Yoshi's Island
GB Dreamland
N's Castle
Wily's Castle
Reset Bomb Forest
Wario Ware
Distant Planet
Tortimer Island
Balloon Fight (Note: The Water obscures view of the player)
Punch Out
Nintendogs
Find Mii
Tomodachi Life
Pictochat
Green Hill Zone
Pac-Maze

'Smashville' Versions (6):
Mario 3D World
Rainbow Road
Spirit Tracks
Japes (Looks like it has a wall, but doesn't.)
Prism Tower
SNES F-Zero

'Brinstar' Versions (3): These are shaped like BF/FD but are shorter vertically.
Brinstar
Corneria
Gaur Plains

Arena Ferox: Special case. This is what I'm calling the 'Stadium' variant, but it is the only one of its kind. It has a Smashville lip that turns into a flat wall half-way down.

Magicant: Special case. Shaped like the default, but is asymmetrical between the left/right sides as far as we can tell.

There are four primary types (no wall, wall, slant, shorter ceiling) and two special cases. These are, more or less, the same stage but the changes can make or break some character's recovery. Walls are a detriment to some characters and a boon to others (Ness in particular, who can PK Thunder into walls and PK Thunder again!), so I agree it is important for them to be considered heavily.

The stage list won't be done until after I've unlocked the stages and have some time to play, but it will more or less be fairly broad. If I think it has a slight chance of being legal (see: Not Magicant) then it'll probably be on. I want to get as much data as possible for other TOs so they can say "we banned stage X because reason Y".

With the current setup, it's impossible to be unable to counterpick to an FD variant unless you have already won on FD or an FD variant. While the vanilla FD will be the starter most likely chosen for stage striking to begin with, I can see why different Omega versions might be more preferable. It'll be shaky early on.

But anyway, I'd be down to play some Smash and chat on Skype any afternoon that's not a Monday or Wednesday. I'll be online all day this Saturday too.
NA 3DS FC: 2492 5180 2983
Japanese 3DS FC: 4227 3283 3211
Skype: KatakiriG
My Japanese game will likely have more custom moves and equipment if you'd like to test those.


Also I still need a doubles partner. I'd really prefer someone that has prior doubles experience.

One more thing, I'll be bringing both of my 3DSes to the tourney in case someone breaks their circle-pad or something over the course of the week and wouldn't be able to come otherwise (assuming JPN & NA Smash can communicate locally).

Awesome, will definitely play you upon release. :D

 

[Absol]

I hope you're ready for a long, multi-subject post.

@ Overswarm I have a concern about the lumping of Omega Stage variants together with FD as one stage. I think it might be abuseable to some degree and all Omega Stages are not identical to FD in the first place.

So say we stage strike down to Final Destination and my opponent selects standard FD on their 3DS. Can I then select Balloon Fight FD on my own 3DS to give myself a have a 50% chance to go to have a Yoshi's Island-style wall down to the bottom blast-zone to jump off of to recover? I essentially have a 50% chance to have a slightly advantageous stage that my opponent my not have even considered when striking. We choose stages where the on-stage gameplay is the same but the off-stage gameplay can vary greatly. This is only an issue when stage striking since, when counter-picking, the loser can just tell the winner exactly what Omega Stage to choose.

Because of that, I think it might be worth having 2 Final Destination on the stage list to strike or choose from:

• FD Platform (the standard floating platform layout)
  
• FD Walls (walls reaching down from the ledges to the blast zone)

All FD stages fall under one of those two categories with the only outlier being Arena Ferox which is a hybrid between the two (think Pokemon Stadium with a column running down the middle into the bottom blast-zone) but it would more fall under platform than plateau unless we consider preventing scrooging a viable reason to say otherwise.

I guess it's a minor thing in general but there are a fair number of strategies that can be applied or prevented depending on which Omega Stage variant is chosen; for instance, on FD Platform, characters with recoveries like Fox's can be stage-spiked with a simple B-Air from any character but FD Walls prevents that. On FD Platform, Kirby and Dedede can inhale, jump off, spit you under the stage, and just B-Air to stage spike you but that doesn't work on FD Walls. Characters like Little Mac, Sheik, and Mega Man can recover safer than they can on FD Platform by wall-jumping on FD Walls. DK has a suicide F-Throw > D-Air combo that works as early as 50% on FD Platform, Dedede can throw Gordos onto the ledge (they stick to walls now) of FD Walls and just completely deny recovering low, and I'm sure there are plenty of other stage-dependent techniques that we haven't yet discovered.

The side-effect with my solution is that it guarantees an Omega Stage to be playable/Counter-pick-able at least once without multiple stage bans. I'm personally okay with that, not only in the same way Melee and PM had BF and Yoshi Story but I would imagine that many Smashers would be practicing in For Glory mode since the game's net-code is solid this time so having a familiar Omega stage available to CP to would make those players more comfortable and support For Glory mode and its Omega stages without bending our entire stage list to it.


But anyway, I'd be down to play some Smash and chat on Skype any afternoon that's not a Monday or Wednesday. I'll be online all day this Saturday too.
NA 3DS FC: 2492 5180 2983
Japanese 3DS FC: 4227 3283 3211
Skype: KatakiriG
My Japanese game will likely have more custom moves and equipment if you'd like to test those.


Also I still need a doubles partner. I'd really prefer someone that has prior doubles experience.

One more thing, I'll be bringing both of my 3DSes to the tourney in case someone breaks their circle-pad or something over the course of the week and wouldn't be able to come otherwise (assuming JPN & NA Smash can communicate locally).

Waft has a lot of doubles experience. Dont count him out just because he just made a smashboards account, We both lurked for a long time. Waft has also won melee doubles with Wish awhile back.

Edit: And I really think he just put Falcon all over his profile as a joke. Fox was his best in Melee imo.

 

[Overswarm]

If anyone here is near the Cincinnati area and wants to play prior to the tournament, I'm off work this Friday and all next week. You're welcome to stop by to play, just message me on facebook/smashboards or call/send a text and I'll send you my address.

 

[Overswarm]

Stagelist temporarily up! This is in a process of change. I'm only removing stages that I've personally run into major issues on and trying to be as loose as possible.. but the list is still pretty small.

Starters:

Prism Tower
Battlefield
FD
Arena Ferox
Yoshi's Island (Brawl)


Counter-pick:

3D Land
Brinstar
Corneria
Reset Bomb Forest
Tomadachi Life

Banned: (I really want the italicized ones to be legal)

Golden Plains - Stage itself isn't awful but the coins giving you super armor is mini-gamey. Not something... that we want.

Rainbow Road - This stage is amazing and one of my favorites... but the track can kill you at 80% and there are several places where you can actually force a grab release during the change into a track hit. I'd be fine with that to a certain extent, except there's also the fact that you can't see the cars coming in some areas AND there is a transformation where you can get trapped underneath the stage very easily.

Paper Mario- This stage isn't too bad until you get to rotating Bowser head... then it's out.

Mushroomy Kingdom- Want to test this more, but it's got some similar issues as it did in Brawl. It's not an awful stage.

Japes- perfectly fine on the right side, absolutely terrible on the left. THe water got STRONGER. Otherwise good stage gone.

Gerudo Valley - Walkoffs still have an issue. I tested it a lot and it's really, really easy to camp the walkoff against characters without projectiles. Same walkoff stuff applies, variance, etc.

Spirit Train - camera jank and all aroudn WTFness

Dream Land - some glitchy stuff in the stage (falling through existing pltforms off the bottom?!), walk-off issues.

Unova- Fire can sometimes cover up almost all the stage AND it can sometimes turn upside down. :|

Mute City- I like the stage, but the track kills you really early. :\

Magicant - Flying man.

Flat zone - walkoffs, stage combo and kills

Wario ware- minigamey

Distant Planet- Walkoff thing still exists, sharking still exists. :\

Tortimer Island - by default is random, but the big thing is exploding fruit and BEES.

Boxing Ring - walkoffs and bouncy things... bouncy things let you do some crazy stuff and infinite counter and all that junk

Gaur Plains - circle camp go

Balloon Fight - lol

Living Room - perfectly fine except it randomly combos you from like 50% to death and you can't see waht's falling, so you can't predict

Find Mii - Crazy random WTFness

Pictochat 2 - I loved Picto 1 and it was a fine stage... Picto 2 has JANKIER things occur and has a heart that heals you significantly. :\

GHZ - walkoffs, spinny raps

Megaman - Boss issue

Pac-man - circle camp and minigamey thing with pellets to give char buffs

 

[Overswarm]

I'd also like to add, everyone who is attending should bring extra $1 bills for Smash Run money matches. :B

 

[Mister Eric]

With Tako out, you might want to update pools beepo

 

[Overswarm]

Pools are gonna have the new entrants randomized with the ones who are leaving. I didn't want to update pools constantly, but you guys get the idea. :B

 

[Shadow the Past]

Ban pls

 

[Shadow the Past]

Also what's the venue address and tournament schedule going to be? Gotta plan travel and all that.

 

[Overswarm]

People should show up between 12:00-1:00, and we'll move on from there as time allows.

Address posted to main page.

 

[Xisin]

Hello OS,

I came in too late! this probably maxed out pretty fast... anyway What do you personally think about using custom moves in tournaments? I've been looking through various rule sets in order to get a feel for what will be legal to practice with. Does it come down to "lets wait for the wii u version"? Either way you hosted some fairly "off the beaten path" tournaments in regards to rules in braw, just wondering what your plans are for the custom moves

 

[Overswarm]

Custom moves'll definitely be in, at least until they show themselves as a problem. They're off now because it's not fair to assume someone has them unlocked for all the characters they'd want.

 

[Overswarm]

This is tomorrow!

If anyone needs to contact me for directions: 859-322-2713
Address: 736 Sage Hill Drive, Taylor Mill KY, 41015

Since someone asked via PM, yes Miis are allowed. Just make sure you have your Mii character set up in advance!

Some people had to drop out but others are taking their place, so pools may have to be slightly changed. I will do that on the day of the event.

 

[Mister Eric]

gl hf

 

[DtJ Composer]

So I assume doubles were ultimately not considered when round 1 pools were being made?

 

[Overswarm]

So I assume doubles were ultimately not considered when round 1 pools were being made?

Doubles will have its own pools, but I don't know who is teaming with who so I can't set it up until everyone gets here. :B

 

[DtJ Composer]

Oh I meant for singles (like me and Ralph in the same round one pool)

If location trumps that since this is so unique it's fine, I was just curious

 

[Overswarm]

you're downstairs right now but, yes, location trumps doubles partners. Doubles partners doesn't really have any effect on singles pools for this tournament since everyone is playing doubles and there's only 16 of us.

 

[Overswarm]

http://smashboards.com/threads/overswarms-house-tournament-1.372872/

Results thread!


I plan on doing more of these and will be contacting people after I find the next date. Since this is at my house I can do it kinda last minute, so hopefully you guys know your schedule in advance!

 

[Overswarm]

We're doing it again!

I'm going around contacting people now to see if they want / are able to attend. If you would like to attend, let me know!

Changes from previous event:

• 3D Land Removed
• Reset Bomb Forest Removed
• Lowered stock count from 4 to 3
• Lowered time limit from 12 to 8
• Custom Moves are enabled!
• Added a Color Camouflage rule (if you are facing blue team, you can be requested to be a non-blue color)

 

[Absol]

Cant make this one either. A little short notice though. I doubt work would've been flexible anyway.

 

[Overswarm]

I plan on filling every possible Saturday with smash 4, thought CSR was this week until after the date. Some of them might be pretty impromptu!

 

[Agent:Guilt~]

I would like to come, assuming Kryp has Saturday off of work.
EDIT Krypand I won't be able to make it.
good luck all.

 

[Shadow the Past]

Are you capping it at 12 this time? I'm having second thoughts and may want to come, along with anywhere from 0-3 other people (Ralph, Nathan, and Sam).

 

[Overswarm]

Are you capping it at 12 this time? I'm having second thoughts and may want to come, along with anywhere from 0-3 other people (Ralph, Nathan, and Sam).

No, the list just automatically shrinks when it isn't filled.

Bring all you want. :D

The cap isn't super strict, it is mostly there so I don't it saying "15 people attending" and then three cars from MI decide to drive down.

 

[Katakiri]

Oh snap! I didn't think you'd do this again this soon.

Hilliard banned Miis so I'm so in for this.

 

[Overswarm]

Hell yeah! I've got a score to settle with you. 1-1 in sets but you get 1st and I get 4th? nuh uh. We goin' again. :D

 

[Overswarm]

What height/weight do you use, Katakiri? I've not experimented with it much.

 

[Shadow the Past]

What height/weight do you use, Katakiri? I've not experimented with it much.

Afaik he uses smallest height/weight for maximum mobility.

 

[Katakiri]

What height/weight do you use, Katakiri? I've not experimented with it much.

Afaik he uses smallest height/weight for maximum mobility.

Yeah that's right. I haven't done much with it either, I think I might try increasing the height slightly to be able to Up-Smash the platforms on Battlefield but other than that, the smallest Mii still lives to like 150-170% so smaller just is better imo.

Mii's gonna have some weird min-maxing for height I guess but it's no reason to ban them. I'll play around with it today.

 

[Overswarm]

Just FYI, I have been notified that my street has "no parking" until 7 p.m., so you guys will need to park on an adjacent street!

Sorry for the inconvenience D:

 

[Overswarm]

Results thread: http://smashboards.com/threads/overswarms-house-tournament-2.373999/

Was a fun tournament! Will have to figure out a way to not get timed out on Ferox....

 

[Overswarm]

I want to do another one of these things, but for Wii U.

Weekends that could possibly work:
Nov. 29th (this weekend!)
not 6th (Hilt tournament)
not 13th (Kero tournament)
December 20th (weekend prior to christmas)
January 3rd (post new years weekend)

what say previous entrants

 

[Shadow the Past]

There's already a Wii U tournament in Dayton this weekend, so that would hurt attendance if you did this weekend.

 

[Kel]

Is that Wii U tournament just Smash 4 or is it a Melee, PM, 64, Street Fighter, Marvel, Yugioh, Wii u tournament?

Because if it's just a Wii U tournament I am interested in attending. If it's a kitchen sink tournament I'd rather have an OS tournament where we can play Wii U at our leisure with the tournament running on time.

 

[Overswarm]

^pretty much that

If the tournament doesn't have customs legal and only say "Smash 4 singles, Smash 4 doubles" and potentially a smash 4 side event like "crews", I'm pretty much out. If it has Melee + PM I pretty much ignore it.

 

[Overswarm]

Oh wait, you mean this one:

2. Date/Time
The next tournament will be held on: November 29th, 2014

Tentative Schedule:
11:00 AM - Registration is Open
12:00 PM - Registration for Doubles is Closed
12:15 PM - Smash Wii U Doubles Begins
12:45 PM - Melee Doubles Begins
1:15 PM - Project: M Doubles Begins
1:30 PM - Registration for Singles is Closed
1:35 PM - Brawl Singles Begins
2:15 PM - Smash Wii U Singles Pools Begins
3:00 PM - Melee Singles Pools Begins
3:45 PM - Project: M Singles Pools Begins
4:30 PM - Smash Wii U Singles Bracket Begins
5:15 PM - Melee Singles Bracket Begins
6:00 PM - Project: M Singles Bracket Begins
10:00 PM - Tournament Hopefully Ends
12:00 AM - Tournament Has To End

Sorry, definitely not interested. That is awful.

 

[Kel]

I loled at
10:00 PM - Tournament Hopefully Ends
12:00 AM - Tournament Has To End

Guys, events run that late with one game running singles and doubles. These guys are doing Wii singles (with pools) and doubles, Brawl singles, Melee singles (with pools) and doubles, and PM singles (with pools) and doubles.

The last Brawl tournament I ran at Arcade Legacy had 60+ entrants with doubles, singles pools, and singles bracket. I ran it just about as efficiently as possible because I DID NOT ENTER in order to ensure it was run as best as possible. That event ended around 9 PM IIRC. This tournament is trying to run 3 smash events and a smash mod event with singles and doubles with pools for all except one game. That is ridiculous. I understand that people like all forms of smash, but that's too much for one 12 hour period (IE MUST be out of the venue by midnight). This is also assuming the tournaments start exactly at noon.

With a schedule like that favoritism will be shown to one game over the other either in the form of set ups, streams, match timing, or other ways.

I would personally prefer to go to an OS tournament where all the set ups/ play time/ friendlies are dedicated to Wii U as I want to concentrate on this game and improve not only myself but the local players with similar interests.