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Death Note and Ethics

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Holder of the Heel

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_note

In the above link is the article pertaining to a particular interesting Manga and Anime series called Death Note that spanned 12 volumes and 37 episodes respectively. The link is supposed to simply introduce you to the story that inspires the topic of this thread, and doesn't entirely need to be read to be enjoyed, however, it would be preferable if you could familiarize with it (it is a good read/watch, whichever way you prefer absorbing the story), for it would interest you in the topic, get you thinking heavily about it (if you reacted the way I did many a year ago when I stumbled upon it myself), and although not what this part of Smashboards is about, will give you a good time. ^_^ Now onto the point at hand.

The story primarily centers around a young male named Light almost out of high school who is essentially bored with life in general, school is too easy (he is the top of his class), friends are too easy (he is quite popular), and he finds everyone in Japan as overwhelmingly base in actions. This train of thought gets its first pale of coal when he looks out the window and finds an ebony notebook falling from the sky mysteriously. It catches his interest, which he could finally take off his dusty mental shelf, so when class is over he goes outside and goes directly to where he saw it, and fortunately no one else has scooped it up. On the cover it says in strange English handwriting "Death Note", and inside it delineates a long list of rules. Some of them being:

1. The human whose name is written in this note will die.
2. This note will not take effect unless the writer has the subject's face in their mind when writing his/her name. Therefore, people sharing the same name will not be affected.
3. If the cause of death is written within 40 seconds of writing the subject's name, it will happen.
4. If the cause of death is not specified, the subject will simply die of a heart attack.
5. After writing the cause of death, the details of the death should be written in the next 6 minutes and 40 seconds.

There are many more, but I simply extracted the basics that are revealed in the Wikipedia page. Essentially, Light finds it to be a very elaborate prank and doesn't intend to take it away from its spot on the ground. Notwithstanding that belief, he found himself walking home with it in his backpack because he feels the Death Note "has some sort of power that makes you have to try it once". When he arrives home, he heads upstairs and thinks about it a bit more, but then he realizes: if I am to test this thing, what name would I put down? This is when he sees on the television a man holding hostage many children at a school, the newscasters knowing the name and face of the criminal, broadcasting it live. This is where the idea blossoms where the old bloom of boredom rested in his heart.

He wrote down the name, believing that it would be okay to play with the idea as long as it what someone that had no relation to him and he could find out immediately if it worked. So he wrote the name of the individual down and watched without holding his breath the time, the seconds counting down. 40 seconds pass by, and there isn't an immediate reaction on the television, so he feels embarrassed at having tried it, but then suddenly the newscaster exclaims in shock. Light looks upon the screen once more as he sees all of the hostages being released, the criminal having died. Without having been shot.

To get to the topic quicker, I'll try to rap it up more briefly: he ends up testing it on another man who tries to **** and molest a woman in public by having him run over, at one point feeling sick with what he has done, but then he thinks to himself: This is what I've been thinking all along-- This world is a rotten mess. It really needs to be cleaned up. At this point forth, he begins to become the God of a world he intends to mold out of killing all criminals with his Shinigami notebook, casting fear upon the populace that if they commit something unlawful, they will die. People react, and Light becomes crueler with his killings, willing to stop anyone who tries to prevent his New World, and to even warm up the people as he raises the killing bar, setting the human living standards higher.

Now, we may discuss the philosophical implications of the characters specifically, but it would be good to note that this thread allows all spoiling content upon the story for reference. However, it isn't the precise target, I am merely curious to see what others think about the moral questions the actions this series contains. The writer goes out of his way to mention in an interview that he was not interested in making it a story around morals, and focused on the Death Note and characters, but the questions raised remain all the same, and in fact are now better to touch since they are purely ours for the taking. Not to mention, it might be hard to market a manga and anime story of such a level, especialyl one that is aimed at the younger male audience.

What would you do if you found a Death Note? Does Light have any idea what he is doing, or he is mentally sick from the curse that is boredom or his large ego? Or was he right to an extent but did some other things wrong... Light could be compared in an ethical standpoint a utilitarian, for he sacrifices lives in order to create an ideal world with no wars and almost no organized crime, and an all around more productive society. Is it worth it? What is the worth of his utopia? What IS a utopia? Is such theoretical consequential thinking fallacious because it may not turn out the intended way, making all the lives in vain, and that he may have to continue trying in the face of bad results in order for him to try and make those lives not in vain? Is Kira ONLY a bad effect on society, or would it become an accepted part of their existence as families grow up with these new ways of living and morals?

Your thoughts!
 

Holder of the Heel

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According to the sticky post, such threads may be renewed if older than three months. That one is almost a year old, said last post was even a month after bump.
 
D

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A person's normal reaction to receiving the Death Note would be "I'll use it to kill criminals!" and I know I would likely have the same motivation. The problem with the power to end someone's life is that it is indeed, incredibly powerful and too much power has shown to consume many leaders and have driven them insane. Hitler for one had almost all political power and look at what happened to him mentally near the end of his life. Eventually, as the series goes by, you are more and more concerned about who is trying to challenge you and less on how it can positively affect the world.

So while not likely, a person motivation should not be to pick up the book and risk being obsessed with it's power, but rather, try to destroy it to ensure no one has that power. Perhaps one of these days, I'll watch Death Note, but the premise does sound very good.
 

Jim Morrison

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All I know is that I found the Spongebob rendition to be pretty swell.

In all seriousness, not having watched this anime at all. I think I'd be too much of a ***** to kill anyone with the Death Note and just never use it but it'd probably be on my mind so often. It'd be a pretty dangerous tool, to me.
 

Holder of the Heel

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Yeah, that is an interesting point, the common reaction might not be, "I'll never use this thing?!" under the light of it being real, but may actually be to kill evil people, whereas the smallest minority of people will use it for selfish reasons. Temptation does reveal hidden parts of us that never see the light of day because certain capabilities are not opened up until power is granted, the Death Note probably being one of the most dangerous to bend your mind. In the series, it clearly shows that Light is very susceptible to that, and despite not being a bad person before, he began to reveal certain egotistical and confrontational aspects, like wanting to not only eliminate criminals, but also those who defy him as if they are one in the same.

If I received a Death Note, it is hard to know how I'd react, but somehow I feel like I'd sacrifice my morals for the sake of the note in order to bring about something better for the world (I am way too bored myself, and I can sense the untouched ambition inside me that awaits an opportunity to morph my mental status) in the, "In order to destroy evil you must become evil," kind of way, which does sound silly, but who knows.

Oh, and I thought Hitler was crazy before he received any of his power? (off topic, but curious XD)

Also, thanks for sharing Spongelight Yagamipants. o____o Somehow I found it amusing. XP
 

Skadorski

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Just a note, there are spoilers in this post and if you plan to read the manga/watch the anime I would advise to avoid the spoilers.
Is it possible to have such power and not go mad (if they were to use it to change the world for the better)?
Looking at history, I would say no. However...
Why not?
First off (I know Death Note isn't fact, but let's use it considering the author did a very good job with Light's personality), Light seemed like he was a pretty well-grounded character. He had a good foundation, he had VERY good grades, wasn't any gangs or whatnot, had good athletic skills (tennis), and had very specific plans for the future.

After receiving the Death Note,
he killed people that were against him, felt no (or almost no) pain when his father died (wanted him to write Mello's name when he was dying), manipulated people to work for him, manipulated girlfriends to make himself look innocent when he was being inspected, and made fun of anyone he could when they died (or rather, made himself look arrogant or better than the people he killed).
Needless to say, it went downhill from when he got the Death Note.
But is this simply a character flaw?

Let's look at Light for a second.

From looking at the beginning of when Light got his Death Note, he was seen often in his bedroom. Actually, let me rephrase that:
He was ALWAYS in his bedroom. Studying. Reading. Watching TV, using his computer, etc. Although he is seen with friends while walking home, I doubt he goes out of his way to talk to his friends (I have no proof for this, this is just an assumption).

After using his Death Note only once, while walking in the city he thinks, "Looking at all these people... I start to think the world would be better off without all of them" (I know he was talking about the people literally around him, but I still see this as very narcissistic, for a lack of a better word or term.)
After killing two people (albeit, only one was near him), he thought "this world is rotten" and decides to rid the world of people.

Let's stop here. First off, looking at this, I believe Light got a bloodlust. Killing someone is a very traumatizing experience to some (even thought Light killed someone using a book, people use guns to kill others which is similar in a way).

I believe there are two reactions after killing people (possibly more, but the main two are these):
1. Being completely traumatized and having it be a horrible and haunting experience
or
2. Enjoying it, possibly wanting more.
From Light's very quick response to the death, I believe he wasn't afraid of killing people at all. He wanted to experiment. Could I do this more? Am I capable of doing this?

On the other side, I believe that people with reaction 1, even with the goal of cleansing the world, would not have been able to keep using the Death Note. It's simply too much for them. They would throw it away. Burn it. Anything to get it out of their possession (I have an opinion on the Shinigami effecting people, but I'd rather ignore it for now).
I believe some people are just not capable of accepting the power at all, while the people that do are doomed to fall.

All in all, I don't believe the Death Note could be used by anyone without going power mad.
Not only this, but I don't think the morals of the people couldn't be held (they would challenge themselves constantly with the question of, "Do they deserve to die? What have they done to deserve death? Is this crime equal to another?" and so forth).

One question I would like to put out there: could a Death Note be stopped? Could people really find one person out of 6 billion humans in the world?

:038:
 

Holder of the Heel

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You raise an interesting and good point about him being alone. He has sagacious social prowess but doesn't find joy in exercising it. The writer seems to want to express the actually realistic fact that most people don't find joy in things that people have no difficulty doing, easy things boring them. Not to mention that as an isolated person, it would be surprisingly easy to see other humans not on the same life-precious level you would put yourself considering most people portray some amount of notable shallow traits, which he then would feel, "All people are to a degree useless". It is also understandable how you in general make two dichotomies for people to fall under when using the notebook, since they will either not like the idea or think it is something that can be used for a purpose, most people wouldn't likely do it once or twice and quit, the few people fitting in that would most likely be people who naively assume they can do it. Like in the One Shot post-script story with Near when another person gets a Death Note (this time being a young person) who follows up on the Kira job, but when Near calls him out on be a monster, he ends up killing himself. Whereas pulling a trigger =/= killing someone in a mental sense is true, the gap is even greater with simply jotting down a name in a book, never having to see your victims even, it is almost thoughtless and amusing (probably aiding in a prideful ego). At that note it makes me think of how almost all psychotic people are masters of intelligence and likability, being able to attract people and manipulate them, pride and boredom somehow mixing together to be a dangerous thing.

But as you say, is it avoidable? I have to agree, it isn't. Pride would be quite subconscious and would build over time, starting with the second kill probably (the first maybe being a test or less thoughtful), but the boredom-- if you were using a Death Note for ulterior motives to get what you want or to make the world a better place, that would be the most important thing to you (not to mention if you get caught you die), aided by the atmosphere the Shinigami would give you by possessing you, most mundane things would CERTAINLY bore you, big things would be dwarfed by your ideals and ego. That would build as well, which seems to fit the Death Note story well, since as time went on,
Light became more detached from the un-detached Light who first found the notebook, and was more concerned with attaining God status, killing those offending him, etc.

Anyways, as to what you say about getting caught, personally I thought Light was golden until he messed up right at the start to kill Lind L. Tailor on live television, before then he only killed criminals or degenerates. At that point he crossed the line, revealing the pride that built up inside, for his ego grew so big it became such a massive and sensitive target. If he wouldn't have done that, the world would have been his, the only other way to catch him is to know of the Death Note, and cause massive world-wide panic by releasing that information like
Near pondered in his One-Shot post script chapter.
 

Bob Jane T-Mart

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I think Light could be compared to a utilitarian, however, the actual consequences of his actions are rather nasty. If he had his way he would create a society where effectively the death penalty is the only penalty of law, a law which is his alone. It's effectively a dictatorship, because he has the unrivalled power to kill everyone he knows of. Crime rates would go down, if you exclude him from the crime statistics, because face it, killing people is murder. The fact is that the people that he kills have families and friends, and even if they are the scum of the earth (and many of them aren't), I don't think they should be killed. Grieving families don't work well, and really the burden on society would be ridiculous, think of all the people he has to kill! At least with people in prison, they can work for the betterment of society, develop skills get rehabilitated and hopefully come out productive members of society. Dead people can't do anything.
 

Holder of the Heel

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Very true. Though arguably, almost no one comes out better and they usually either live a life of crime until they die or get caught again, it is very true that some people learn from their mistakes. Plus there are people who are wrongly convicted, which would probably be killed on the spot with Light. There are a lot of messy problems that arise, not to mention like you say, people who have their family members or friends killed, perhaps irrespective of what they have done that was so wrong, go crazy with contempt despite fear of dying themselves.

I have to say that using the Death Note would be wrong, though I'd probably keep it in hopes a Shinigami will hang out with me because I took possession of the note. XD I want an invisible powerful friend! But in all seriousness, writing in it is hard to justify, and is surely why
it ended the way it did.
 

Bob Jane T-Mart

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Very true. Though arguably, almost no one comes out better and they usually either live a life of crime until they die or get caught again, it is very true that some people learn from their mistakes. Plus there are people who are wrongly convicted, which would probably be killed on the spot with Light. There are a lot of messy problems that arise, not to mention like you say, people who have their family members or friends killed, perhaps irrespective of what they have done that was so wrong, go crazy with contempt despite fear of dying themselves.
Have a read of this article in Time Magazine. It illustrates the point that people can be rehabilitated and be reintegrated into society if prisons treat their inmates correctly and emphasise rehabilitation instead of punishment.
 

Holder of the Heel

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Wow, thank you for the share! I have never heard of anything like this, it is surprising that some people aren't calliously taking advantage of this adequate treatment. In fact they might even not fear prison if that is where they go, it may be better in there than the unpaid life without anything to do or anyone to be with. But all possible objects aside, that is interesting. Unfortunately prisons don't really take on that intuitive aspect.
 

Bob Jane T-Mart

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Wow, thank you for the share! I have never heard of anything like this, it is surprising that some people aren't calliously taking advantage of this adequate treatment. In fact they might even not fear prison if that is where they go, it may be better in there than the unpaid life without anything to do or anyone to be with. But all possible objects aside, that is interesting. Unfortunately prisons don't really take on that intuitive aspect.
I think you'll find that the inmates still don't like it in there. They don't like being there separated from their families and friends. You've also got to remember that reality doesn't always match with common sense.
 
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